John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 11,061 through 11,080 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
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  • #317788
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Ed J,Oct. 25 2012,03:58][/quote]

    Quote
    Do you 'think' that  the spirit of Christ  is a separate “PERSON” from Jesus?

    EDJ,

    Do you 'think' that   your spirit is a separate “PERSON” from you???

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #317793
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Oct. 27 2012,07:15)

    Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,03:58)


    Quote
    Do you 'think' that  the spirit of Christ  is a separate “PERSON” from Jesus?

    EDJ,

    Do you 'think' that   your spirit is a separate “PERSON” from you???

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Hi Charles,

    So your answer is “No” then, right?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #317794
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Oct. 25 2012,14:54)
    FOR I BECAME A HUMAN NOT TO DO MY WILL AS A HUMAN BUT TO DO THE WILL OF HIM, AS GOD IN FLESH, WHO SENT ME!!!


    So “God in Flesh” does the will of who……………  “God in Spirit”?  

    If “God in Flesh” truly is God Almighty, then whose will was “God Almighty” doing while he was on earth?

    #317795
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 26 2012,00:11)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2012,05:05)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 24 2012,11:51)
    monogenes could also mean ONLY SON


    Wrong, jammin.  “Monogenes HUIOS” means “only son”, or, more correctly, “only begotten son”.  Without the word “huios”, there is no way to get “son” out of “monogenes”.  Get it?  “Monogenes” means “only generated”.  “Theos” means “god”.  And “Huios” means “son”.  If the word “huios” isn't even in the phrase “monogenes theos”, then you can't get the word “son” out of it – despite what your “scholars” say on the matter.  (Actually, since there is much dispute about whether John 1:18 says “monogenes theos”, or “monogenes huios”, those scholars are just using BOTH of the disputed words, and coming up with “God, the only Son”.)

    Ask Kathi, since you trust her.

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 24 2012,11:51)
    btw i already answered your questions. one GOD!
    the bible says ONE GOD!


    HALLELUJAH!  That is correct jammin.  There is only ONE Almighty God.

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?

    (Btw, you might want to explain “ONE GOD” to your friend Kathi – for she believes in TWO Almighty Gods.)


    monoegenes also means only son.


    No it doesn't, jammin.

    You should ask your friend Kathi about it and get the facts before you make yourself look even more foolish than you already do.

    Also, this was the question I asked.  Perhaps you didn't see it in the last post………………  ???

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?

    #317798
    SimplyForgiven
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Oct. 27 2012,01:09)

    Quote
    Charles I do need to prove to you that you wrong,

    Simplyforgiven,

    HOW???
    UNLESS THROUGH SCRIPTURES!!!
    TO JUST NEGATE IS CHILDISH!!!
    ALL humans, were destined to hell before Jesus came.
    Ecclesiastes:9:3This is a very great evil among all things that are done under the sun, that
    THE SAME THINGS HAPPEN TO ALL MEN:
    whereby also the hearts of the children of men are filled with evil, and with contempt while they live, and afterwards
    THEY SHALL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO HELL.

    NOTICE:
    BROUGHT DOWN TO HELL!!!
    SO SINCE THE WORD BROUGHT WAS USED  IT IS OBVIOUS THAT SOMEBODY FROM HELL BROUGHT THEM.
    SO SATAN BROUGHT THEM TO HELL!!!
    GOD BROUGHT THEM TO HEAVEN AFTER JESUS DIED FOR THEM.
    ALL HUMANS BEFORE JESUS CAME WERE THE PROPERTY OF SATAN.
    SINCE THEY WERE SPIRITUALLY DEAD WITH THE INSERTION OF SATAN'S SPIRIT WITHIN THEIR SOULS THROUGH ADAM'S SIN.
    SO IN ORDER FOR JESUS TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, HE WAS TAKEN ALSO TO HELL BY SATAN.
    JESUS LIKE ALL HIS BRETHREN HAD TO BE JUSTIFIED THROUGH FIRE IN ORDER TO DETERMINE WHETHER HE WAS IMMACULATE OR NOT.
    THAT WAS THE PROCEDURE TO DETERMINE IF HE WAS THE MESSIAH OR NOT.
    2 Samuel 22:31 God, his way is immaculate, the word of the Lord is tried by fire: he is the shield of all that trust in him
    Psalm 17:3  Thou hast proved my heart, and visited it by night,
    THOU HAST TRIED ME BY FIRE :
    and iniquity hath not been found in me.
    MARK:9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire: and every victim shall be salted with salt.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Charles,

    To negate a claim that you brought up is actually proper procedure within debate.
    If you make a claim, than its required of YOU to prove it, in other words the burden is on YOU.
    Now if you bring up evidence why You think so, than its required of me to prove otherwise, which is called a rebuttal.
    Look son, you have alot to learn, but you don't care for that.
    I already told you that it is GOD who puts the soul in hell.
    Luke 12:5
    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    It is God who puts anybody in hell, it is not Satan.
    No where in ECC does it say that the devil does it, so it is NOT OBVIOUS, its OBVIOUS that GOD does it.
    The scriptures say that God is a “consuming fire” in hebrews.
    So what of it?
    You obviosuly are confused.
    Satan doesn't bring anybody to a physical place called hell.
    Have you read this?
    Matthew 23:15
    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

    How can someone living be a child of hell?
    I'll give you the answer:
    Proverbs 15:11
    Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

    Dennison

    #317801
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    God was in him, and he was part of God. …this is clear.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #317821
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,04:57)

    Quote (carmel @ Oct. 27 2012,01:09)

    Quote
    Charles I do need to prove to you that you wrong,

    Simplyforgiven,

    HOW???
    UNLESS THROUGH SCRIPTURES!!!
    TO JUST NEGATE IS CHILDISH!!!
    ALL humans, were destined to hell before Jesus came.
    Ecclesiastes:9:3This is a very great evil among all things that are done under the sun, that
    THE SAME THINGS HAPPEN TO ALL MEN:
    whereby also the hearts of the children of men are filled with evil, and with contempt while they live, and afterwards
    THEY SHALL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO HELL.

    NOTICE:
    BROUGHT DOWN TO HELL!!!
    SO SINCE THE WORD BROUGHT WAS USED  IT IS OBVIOUS THAT SOMEBODY FROM HELL BROUGHT THEM.
    SO SATAN BROUGHT THEM TO HELL!!!
    GOD BROUGHT THEM TO HEAVEN AFTER JESUS DIED FOR THEM.
    ALL HUMANS BEFORE JESUS CAME WERE THE PROPERTY OF SATAN.
    SINCE THEY WERE SPIRITUALLY DEAD WITH THE INSERTION OF SATAN'S SPIRIT WITHIN THEIR SOULS THROUGH ADAM'S SIN.
    SO IN ORDER FOR JESUS TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, HE WAS TAKEN ALSO TO HELL BY SATAN.
    JESUS LIKE ALL HIS BRETHREN HAD TO BE JUSTIFIED THROUGH FIRE IN ORDER TO DETERMINE WHETHER HE WAS IMMACULATE OR NOT.
    THAT WAS THE PROCEDURE TO DETERMINE IF HE WAS THE MESSIAH OR NOT.
    2 Samuel 22:31 God, his way is immaculate, the word of the Lord is tried by fire: he is the shield of all that trust in him
    Psalm 17:3  Thou hast proved my heart, and visited it by night,
    THOU HAST TRIED ME BY FIRE :
    and iniquity hath not been found in me.
    MARK:9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire: and every victim shall be salted with salt.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Charles,

    To negate a claim that you brought up is actually proper procedure within debate.
    If you make a claim, than its required of YOU to prove it, in other words the burden is on YOU.
    Now if you bring up evidence why You think so, than its required of me to prove otherwise, which is called a rebuttal.
    Look son, you have alot to learn, but you don't care for that.
    I already told you that it is GOD who puts the soul in hell.
    Luke 12:5
    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    It is God who puts anybody in hell, it is not Satan.
    No where in ECC does it say that the devil does it, so it is NOT OBVIOUS, its OBVIOUS that GOD does it.
    The scriptures say that God is a “consuming fire” in hebrews.
    So what of it?
    You obviosuly are confused.
    Satan doesn't bring anybody to a physical place called hell.  
    Have you read this?
    Matthew 23:15
    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

    How can someone living be a child of hell?
    I'll give you the answer:
    Proverbs 15:11
    Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

    Dennison


    D

    this can only be done if we have free will ,if not you wasting your time ,

    #317825
    SimplyForgiven
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,08:26)
    D

    this can only be done if we have free will ,if not you wasting your time ,


    Im serious, I really don't know what you are saying.

    I have no idea, what free willl, nor of “wasting of my time” has to do with what I said before.

    Your not making sense.

    #317832
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,09:40)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,08:26)
    D

    this can only be done if we have free will ,if not you wasting your time ,


    Im serious, I really don't know what you are saying.

    I have no idea, what free willl, nor of “wasting of my time” has to do with what I said before.

    Your not making sense.


    D

    You do understand what I say ,but you do not understand how and to what it is connected so that you can understand the meaning of it right ???

    #317833
    SimplyForgiven
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,09:53)

    Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,09:40)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,08:26)
    D

    this can only be done if we have free will ,if not you wasting your time ,


    Im serious, I really don't know what you are saying.

    I have no idea, what free willl, nor of “wasting of my time” has to do with what I said before.

    Your not making sense.


    D

    You do understand what I say ,but you do not understand how and to what it is connected so that you can understand the meaning of it right ???


    I honestly don't understand your grammer, or your point of what your attempting to say.

    #317836
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,10:56)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,09:53)

    Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,09:40)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,08:26)
    D

    this can only be done if we have free will ,if not you wasting your time ,


    Im serious, I really don't know what you are saying.

    I have no idea, what free willl, nor of “wasting of my time” has to do with what I said before.

    Your not making sense.


    D

    You do understand what I say ,but you do not understand how and to what it is connected so that you can understand the meaning of it right ???


    I honestly don't understand your grammer, or your point of what your attempting to say.


    D

    To me it is not important,I have not lost anything,

    And you did not see anything worth to know so, :(

    #317907
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2012,09:32)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 26 2012,00:11)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2012,05:05)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 24 2012,11:51)
    monogenes could also mean ONLY SON


    Wrong, jammin.  “Monogenes HUIOS” means “only son”, or, more correctly, “only begotten son”.  Without the word “huios”, there is no way to get “son” out of “monogenes”.  Get it?  “Monogenes” means “only generated”.  “Theos” means “god”.  And “Huios” means “son”.  If the word “huios” isn't even in the phrase “monogenes theos”, then you can't get the word “son” out of it – despite what your “scholars” say on the matter.  (Actually, since there is much dispute about whether John 1:18 says “monogenes theos”, or “monogenes huios”, those scholars are just using BOTH of the disputed words, and coming up with “God, the only Son”.)

    Ask Kathi, since you trust her.

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 24 2012,11:51)
    btw i already answered your questions. one GOD!
    the bible says ONE GOD!


    HALLELUJAH!  That is correct jammin.  There is only ONE Almighty God.

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?

    (Btw, you might want to explain “ONE GOD” to your friend Kathi – for she believes in TWO Almighty Gods.)


    monoegenes also means only son.


    No it doesn't, jammin.

    You should ask your friend Kathi about it and get the facts before you make yourself look even more foolish than you already do.

    Also, this was the question I asked.  Perhaps you didn't see it in the last post………………  ???

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?


    i know greek mike. how about you? LOL

    do you have formal studies in greek? i know you do not have any formal studies bec if you have then you know what im talking about.

    sorry boy but you need to go to school first before talking to me

    btw

    im still waiting for your version of FORM OF HIS GOD in phil 2.6 and uniquely generated in john 1.18 LOL

    #317921
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Lightenup,Oct. 22 2012,16:45][/quote]

    Quote
    [QUOTE] ALL THAT MY FATHER HAS ARE MINE!!!  

    Lightenup,

    I do my best to be brief:

    Genesis 3:17…………..cursed is the earth in thy work;……………….

    As you can read, although the earth, was perfect, through Adam’s labour, through his evil contaminated energy, obvious since Satan’s spirit was in his soul, IT WOULD BE CURSED.

    SO HE WORKED THE LAND , HE RECEIVED FRUIT OUT OF IT AND BOTH THE EARTH AND ITS FRUIT WERE CURSED ,EVIL, AND THE ONLY FOOD WHICH WAS SPIRITUALLY GOOD FOR ADAM WERE THE HERBS.

    Genesis 4: 5 But to Cain and hisofferings he had no respect: and Cain was exceedingly angry, and his countenance fell.

    Notice Cain offered HIS OFFERINGS BUT GOD HAD NO RESPECT, obvious IT WAS CURSED, AND CAIN SHOULD HAVE GIVEN ONLY HERBS TO GOD.

    You might ask why all this??? What this has to do in respect to the context regarding  

    ALL THAT MY FATHER HAS ARE MINE!!!

    Patience please!!!

    Through this we became aware that from Adam onwards humans were CURSED, the land also became CURSED, and humans through their attributes could never achieve salvation. Human souls, Adam’s descendants were spiritually dead  through Satan’s spirit insertion in them.

    There was no way for humans to return to the Father. Not only that but they eventually became even more evil through that procedure!!!

    THORNS AND THISTLES SHALL IT BRINGS FORTH TO YOU

    So OUR LOVING GOD had the most meek, humble and loving solution which as we all know, HE LOWERED  HIMSELF AND BECAME MAN IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

    THE REASON:

    ONCE JESUS BECAME MAN GOD, WHATEVER ADAM CURSED THROUGH HIS SIN, JESUS SANCTIFIED THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS.

    ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES BECAME HOLY, GODLY IN JESUS. SINCE HE WAS BOTH GOD AND MAN.

    UNDERSTAND THIS IT IS VITAL.

    Since Jesus was divine, and was born, ALL BIRTHS BECAME SANCTIFIED , AND WHATEVER JESUS DID AS MAN BECAME HOLY, GODLY IN HIM.

    As soon as Jesus suffered, and died, all sufferings, pains and deaths became sanctified in HIM.GODLY

    Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting, until his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one OBLATION  he hath perfected for ever them that are SANCTIFIED

    17 And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more.

    So Jesus stated first in:

    John16:14 He shall glorify me:

    for HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE ,…………..

    SO GOD RECEIVED ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND JESUS OUTOMATICALLY GLORIFIED HIMSELF IN HIS FATHER.

    THEN HE EMPHASIZED IT IN:

    15 All things that the Father hath are mine:said I, that he shall take of mine,…………….

    SO THIS IS A REFERENCE TO ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES WHICH THE FATHER RECEIVED THROUGH JESUS FIRST WHILE HE WALKED ON EARTH AS  MAN GOD,AND THEN WHEN HE DIED AND GLORIFIED WITH THE FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST.

    THEN AGAIN JESUS EMPHASIZED IT FOR THE THIRD TIME AND SAID TO HIS FATHER IN THE FOLLOWING CHAPTER:

    JOHN 17:10 And all my things are thine,

    ALL MY HUMAN ATTRIBUTES ARE YOURS, they ARE GODLY. Something which never occurred before, that a spirit being suffers, dies and all the rest.

    and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them

    and ALL  THE FATHER’S ATTRIBUTES  AS GOD, ARE MINE;

    and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.

    So Jesus confirmed that HE ,AS MAN GOD, GLORIFIED IN ALL THE THINGS HE DID WHILE ON EARTH THROUGH THE FATHER’S DIVINTY!!!

    SINCE THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER WAS IN JESUS’ SOUL.

    Before Jesus came on earth, God didn't have HUMAN ATTRIBUTES!! DIDN'T EVEN EXPERIENCED HUMAN ATTRIBUTES.

    THIS BECAUSE GOD IS HOLY AND ETERNAL,AND  HUMANS WERE EVIL ,AND MORTALS, AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

    From Jesus glorification the Father experiences all human attributes to the least detail,but

    IN JESUS CHRIST BECAUSE THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT ONLY IS NOT IN THE POSITION TO EXPERIENCE ANY MORTAL SINFUL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES.

    Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting,

    UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.

    CLEAR ENOUGH NO???

    So God the Father as a spirit cannot experience the evil attributes of man. But when all God's enemies are CONVERTED,AND ALL EVIL IS ERADICATED,THEN THE FATHER WOULD BE ALL IN ALL.

    ALL HIS MYRIAD SPIRITS IN ALL HIS CARNAL CREATURES AS ONE MYSTICAL BODY OF GOD , ONE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #317930
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    Simplyforgiven,

    WHERE DOES IT SAYS THAT GOD KILLS,AND HAS THE POWER TO CAST INTO HELL ???

    ALTHOUGH HE HAS ALL KINDS OF POWER???

    Rev:12:10…………: because the ACCUSER of our

    BRETHREN

    is cast forth, who

    ACCUSED THEM BEFORE OUR GOD DAY AND NIGHT.

    SO AFTER ALL IT WAS ALWAYS SATAN WHO ACCUSED HUMANS BEFORE GOD, THAT THEY WERE BEING SINFUL IN ORDER TO KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR SOULS TO HELL!!!

    NOT GOD !!!

    WHO HAD THE POWER OF DEATH???

    JOB 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand;

    BUT SAVE HIS LIFE!!!!

    WHY DID GOD PREVENT SATAN TO KILL JOB???????????????


    Hecrews 2:Therefore because the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner hath been partaker of the same: that,

    THROUGH DEATH, HE MIGHT DESTROY HIM WHO HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, that is to say, the DEVIL!!!!

    SO SATAN HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, BUT NO MORE SINCE UNAWARE HE KILLED THE MESSIAH!!!

    WHO WAS A MURDERER???

    John 8:You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do.

    HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING,

    …………….

    NOTICE SATAN WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, BUT NOT ANY MORE, SINCE HE HIMSELF KILLED THE MESSIAH THE LAST VICTIM OF THE OT.

    IT WAS VITAL THAT SATAN HAD THE POWER TO KILL.

    GOD IS NOT A KILLER.GOD IS LOVE!!!

    GOD GAVE THAT ATTRIBUTES TO SATAN.

    IN ORDER TO KILL THE MESSIAH, AND THROUGH HIS OWN ATTRIBUTES HE DESTROYED HIMSELF!!!!

    THIS SYMBOLICALLY IS DEMONSTARTED IN THE STORY OF :

    DAVID AND GOLIATH SINCE DAVID KILLED GOLIATH WITH HIS OWN SWORD!!

    ALSO  HOW ONE COULD EVEN IMAGINE THAT HUMANS HAD :

    BOTH GOD AND SATAN KILLING THEM

    AND WHY JESUS CALLED SATAN A MURDERER AND IN THE SAME TIME HE HIMSELF KILLS.

    THIS IS NONSENSE!!!!

    Peace and love in Jesus.

    Charles.

    #317945
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 27 2012,09:39)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2012,09:32)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 26 2012,00:11)
    monoegenes also means only son.


    No it doesn't, jammin.

    You should ask your friend Kathi about it and get the facts before you make yourself look even more foolish than you already do.

    Also, this was the question I asked.  Perhaps you didn't see it in the last post………………  ???

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?


    i know greek mike. how about you?


    Apparently better than you do.  Tell you what………  why not just post your lexicon that explains how the Greek word “monogenes” means “only son”.  Or ask Kathi like I've been telling you, for she understands the Greek language fairly well.

    Most likely you are confused again, jammin.  If I pointed at my SON and said, “This is my only begotten (monogenes)”, then the word would be REFERRING TO my only son…. but it still wouldn't MEAN “only son”.  Is this what you're talking about when you say the word MEANS “only son”?

    Oh, and when will you answer the bolded question?  (Will I have to ask it 12 times before you answer – like my last question?  :)  )

    #317947
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,21:05)
    Mike,
    The first 'God' is a word that is in contrast to 'servant.'

    God would mean 'a type of nature that would be served as God.'


    So then like this?

    6 Who, being in very nature someone that should be served as God,
    did not consider equality with God (the Father) something to be used to his own advantage;

    #317995
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=SimplyForgiven,Oct. 25 2012,17:03][/quote]

    Quote
    God can do whatever He wants to do.

    simplyforgiven,

    Wrong!!!

    GOD DOES WHAT LOVE DEMANDS!!!

    AND GOD IS LOVE!!!

    JESUS GOD MAN, REFUSED THE CUP, BUT HIS FATHER,WHO IS LOVE SAID:

    DIE SO DEATH WOULD BE HOLY AND THROUGH IT

    I THE FATHER, YOU THE SON, THROUGH MY HOLY SPIRIT  GLORIFY

    GOD COULD HAVE DESTROYED LUCIFER INSTANATLY!!!

    BUT LOVE SAID NO!!!

    LOVE SAID!!!

    CONVERT LUCIFER!!!

    GET LUCIFER BACK TO YOU IT IS MORE DIFFICULT!!!

    KILLING LUCIFER AND CREATE ANOTHER ANGEL IS THE SIMPLEST WAY OUT AND YOU SOLVE NOTHING THE OTHER ANGEL WOULD DO THE SAME

    CONVERTING LUCIFER IT TAKES TRILLIONS OF YEARS!!!

    IT TAKES PATIENCE, MEEKNESS, HUMILITY, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT MERCY!!!

    Matthew 9:12 But Jesus hearing it, said: They that are in health need not a physician, but they that are ill.

    13 Go then and learn what this meaneth, I will have

    MERCY

    and not sacrifice. For I am not come to call the just, but sinners.

    Matthew

    12:7And if you knew what this meaneth: I will have

    MERCY

    , and not sacrifice: you would never have condemned the innocent.

    OTHERWISE LUCIFER NEVER GETS BACK!!!

    I ASKED YOU IF GOD HAS A FREE WILL, AND I WANTED FROM YOU ONLY

    YES!!!

    NOW I ASK YOU:

    DOES LUCIFER/SATAN HAS A FREE WILL????

    I KNOW IT IS GETTING MORE DIFFICULT,BUT I WANT TO CONVINCE YOU THAT WE ALL HAVE A FREE WILL???

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #318003
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=SimplyForgiven,Oct. 27 2012,09:57][/quote]

    Quote
    The scriptures say that God is a “consuming fire” in hebrews

    Simplyforgiven,

    That scriptures confirm my statement:

    Read again:

    SATAN WAS ONLY AWARE THAT JESUS WAS GOD IN FLESH ,

    WHEN JESUS WAS TAKEN BY SATAN DOWN TO HELL UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT HE WAS A CRIMINAL AND WAS STUNNED TO SE JESUS IN

    FLESH TESTED BY THE HOTTEST FIRE.

    Now that is a proof that

    GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE BOTH IN SPIRIT AND IN FLESH!!!

    COMMON SENSE SINCE GOD IS GLORIFIED IN THE FLESH AS WELL.

    ALL GOD’S ATTRIBUTES WERE GIVEN TO JESUS CHRIST NO???

    SO AS SOON AS JESUS HUMBLY,AND MEEKLY, WAS TAKEN BY THE POWER OF DEATH ,SATAN, INTO HIS ABODE, HELL, LIKE HE DID TO ALL JESUS’ BRETHREN SINCE ADAM, TO JUSTIFY JESUS AS THE MESSIAH,

    HE WAS STUNNED TO SEE JESUS CHRIST HIS OWN CREATOR IN FULL POWER OF GOD THROUH THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE HOTTEST FIRE OF HELL,

    That was the ambition of Satan that he would achieve manhood not withstanding the fact that his kingdom is hell in fire, and be like the MOST HIGH!!!

    HE WOULD EVENTUALLY ACHIEVE IT BUT FOR NO USE!!!

    Now let's read scriptures

    REGARDING JESUS AS A CONSUMING FIRE ALTHOUGH HE IS ALSO IN FLESH:

    Isaiah 30: 25
    And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every elevated hill rivers of running waters in

    THE DAY OF SLAUGHTER OF MANY,

    when the tower shall fall.

    26 And the light of the moon shall be se the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days: in the day when the Lord shall bind up the wound of his people, and shall heal the stroke of their wound.

    27 Behold the name of the Lord cometh from afar, his wrath burneth, and is heavy to bear: his lips are filled with indignation, and

    HIS TONGUE IS A BURNING FIRE.

    ISN’T THIS JESUS ON THE LAST DAY OF JUSTICE???

    28 His breath as a torrent overflowing even to the midst of the neck, to

    DESTROY THE NATIONS UNTO NOTHING,

    and the bridle of error that was in the jaws of the people.

    29 You shall have a song as in the night of the sanctified solemnity, and joy of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe, to come into the mountain of the Lord, to the Mighty One of Israel.

    JESUS AS JUDGE

    30 And the Lord shall make the glory of his voice to be heard, and shall shew the terror of his arm, in the threatening of wrath, and the dame of DEVOURING FIRE : he shall crush to pieces with whirlwind, and hailstones.

    Rev: 2:18 And to the angel of the church of Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God,

    WHO HATH HIS EYES LIKE TO A FLAME OF FIRE, and his feet like to fine brass.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #318022
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2012,10:58)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 27 2012,09:39)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2012,09:32)

    Quote (jammin @ Oct. 26 2012,00:11)
    monoegenes also means only son.


    No it doesn't, jammin.

    You should ask your friend Kathi about it and get the facts before you make yourself look even more foolish than you already do.

    Also, this was the question I asked.  Perhaps you didn't see it in the last post………………  ???

    jammin, scripturally speaking, is Jesus the SON OF this ONE Almighty God?  YES or NO?


    i know greek mike. how about you?


    Apparently better than you do.  Tell you what………  why not just post your lexicon that explains how the Greek word “monogenes” means “only son”.  Or ask Kathi like I've been telling you, for she understands the Greek language fairly well.

    Most likely you are confused again, jammin.  If I pointed at my SON and said, “This is my only begotten (monogenes)”, then the word would be REFERRING TO my only son…. but it still wouldn't MEAN “only son”.  Is this what you're talking about when you say the word MEANS “only son”?

    Oh, and when will you answer the bolded question?  (Will I have to ask it 12 times before you answer – like my last question?  :)  )


    then ill post a lexicon mike.

    Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results

    Result of search for “monogenes”:

    3439. monogenes mon-og-en-ace' from 3441 and 1096; only-born, i.e. sole:–only (begotten, child).

    did you see that mike??? did you see ONLY CHILD????

    i told you to study greek mike before talking to me.
    you do not know what you are saying and you are a big shame to your fellow false teachers. LOL

    that is why scholars translated monogenes theos as GOD THE ONLY SON in john 1.18 bec monogenes also means only child.

    poor mike.
    you talk too much.

    btw
    where is your version of FORM OF HIS GOD in phil 2.6 and uniquely generated in john 1.18??

    you are still not giving me any single version boy LOL

    #318023
    jammin
    Participant

    who is that almighty God you are referring to mike?

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