John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 9,021 through 9,040 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
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  • #307436
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ from the “Many Gods” thread,July 26 2012,21:15)
    God does everything BY HIS WORD.(there are no two different words).


    I completely disagree.  The word “logos” refers to MANY different things in the scriptures.  Sometimes it refers to any spoken or written word from ANYONE, other times to words God has spoken to humans through angels, visions, etc, and other times it refers to the TITLE of God's main spokesman Jesus Christ.

    Wakeup, do you think that Jesus is a “part of” God Almighty? Or do you believe the scriptures that he is the “SON OF” God Almighty?

    #307455
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ July 28 2012,23:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2012,00:31)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2012,08:58)

    Quote (jammin @ July 25 2012,22:59)
    6     Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
           he did not take advantage of this equality.

    make your own bible boy.


    Hi Jammin,

    How does one go about taking advantage of equality?  ???

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Look at your quote  –  and “PLEASE” answer my question.


    the bible said that.
    what is wrong with that??/
    i cant see wrong.

    pls elaborate your question


    Hi Jammin,

    Glad you admit you don't know! :)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #307457
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    the treasure ,if it is the word of God ,then the key is within the treasure ,

    Terraricca,

    The treasure represents the KINGDOM OF GOD  (Jesus’ Spirit and God the Father within)

    The house represents the SOUL  (Jesus’ Spirit as the entire souls) Zion

    Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

    The door represents JESUS GLORIFIED ( the NEW SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY)  the new JERUSALEM  

    The Key represents JESUS born in a UNIQUE FLESH BODY.

    So the entire Kingdom is totally Jesus Spirit consumed in creation. THE KEY ELEMENT OF GOD’S KINGDOM

    The treasure LOCKED in the house is useless without the Key, MERELY does not exist. CANNOT BE VISIBLE, CANNOT BE ADMIRED.

    ALMIGHTY GOD although was in the process of creation, seemed USELSS FOR HIS KINGDOM AS A SPIRIT LOCKED IN JESUS SPIRIT, HIS ABODE, and MERELY did not exist for humans, COULDN’T BE VISIBLE, COULDN’T BE ADMIRED. BUT WITH JESUS HE BECAME MAN ,WALKED ON EARTH, PERFORMED BOTH GOD AND MAN ATTRIBUTES ,SUFFERED, DIED  AND GLORIFIED therefore achieved all this through JESUS AS GOD AND MAN . WATER AND BLOOD. SPIRIT AND FLESH.

    IT'S UP TO US NOW HOW MUCH WE ARE CAPABLE OF ADMIRING,AND ADORING IN THE SPIRIT AND TRUTH, THE MAGNIFICENCE OF ALMIGHTY GOD IN THE ENTIRE CREATION,SINCE SATAN WAS REMOVED AND REPLACED BY JESUS SPIRIT THROUGH HIS DEATH BODY(THE KEY) ON THE CROSS.

    John 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.

    So as the key is equal to the treasure IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME, Jesus as human also was Man God therefore equal with God IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME ON EARTH, AND GLORIFIED THE FATHER, ESTABLISHED GOD’S KINGDOM ON EARTH, AND THEN GLORIFIED AND ESTABLISHED GOD’S KINGDOM IN BOTH HEAVEN AND EARTH THROUGH HIS DEATH AND RESERRUCTION.

    AND STILL MANY DENY THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD IN THE FLESH ???

    John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself EQUAL WITH GOD.

    Once  a person acquired the Key he would possess the treasure, and the Key would end its use.

    Once  Jesus acquired the  Human flesh body (THE KEY)  He also  possessed His  Kingdom (THE TREASURE) , and the human flesh body ALSO ended its use on the cross.

    NOW:

    The Key is the FAITH IN JESUS
    The Door is BAPTIZM  in the name of the Father, the Son ,and the Holy Spirit.
    The House is our new Body (Jerusalem)
    The Treasure is our new Soul (Zion) full of glory of the Holy Spirit,sent by Jesus from the Father.

    Are we living in RESPECT of what JESUS' BODY( THE KEY) acquired for us through His death on the cross??

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #307460
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2012,03:07)

    Quote (Wakeup @ from the “Many Gods” thread,July 26 2012,21:15)
    God does everything BY HIS WORD.(there are no two different words).


    I completely disagree.  The word “logos” refers to MANY different things in the scriptures.  Sometimes it refers to any spoken or written word from ANYONE, other times to words God has spoken to humans through angels, visions, etc, and other times it refers to the TITLE of God's main spokesman Jesus Christ.

    Wakeup, do you think that Jesus is a “part of” God Almighty?  Or do you believe the scriptures that he is the “SON OF” God Almighty?


    Quote
    Wakeup, do you think that Jesus is a “part of” God Almighty?  Or do you believe the scriptures that he is the “SON OF” God Almighty?

    Mike,

    God Almighty cannot be ALMIGHTY without JESUS' SPIRIT.

    JESUS' SPIRIT IS THE FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT OF GOD'S KINGDOM.

    IN FACT IT IS :

    HIS SON'S KINGDOM.

    AND IF GOD'S KINGDOM IS THE SON'S KINGDOM, THE SON IS ALSO GOD.

    Colossians 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #307466
    terraricca
    Participant

    charles

    Quote
    The treasure LOCKED in the house is useless without the Key, MERELY does not exist. CANNOT BE VISIBLE, CANNOT BE ADMIRED.

    this treasure was never lock ,because Gods creation ad always access to him from the very beginning ,this is what Paul explain in Col1-

    but not all his plan to save what could be saved after the fire of man sin,this was the mistry of the ages, the son of God came down from heaven to fulfill his fathers will even until dead ,and this is again a price that anyone that says he believe must pay to enter the kingdom of Christ or of God,

    the trouble is that a treasure to certain people does not mean the same thing to all ,like I told you before .

    Quote
    NOW:

    The Key is the FAITH IN JESUS
    The Door is BAPTIZM in the name of the Father, the Son ,and the Holy Spirit.
    The House is our new Body (Jerusalem)
    The Treasure is our new Soul (Zion) full of glory of the Holy Spirit,sent by Jesus from the Father.

    Are we living in RESPECT of what JESUS' BODY( THE KEY) acquired for us through His death on the cross??

    this analogy is out of scriptures in my view;

    get back later to explain why

    #307473
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ July 28 2012,13:06)
    AND IF GOD'S KINGDOM IS THE SON'S KINGDOM, THE SON IS ALSO GOD


    No Charles,

    Scripture teaches about ONE Almighty God, and His Son.

    The nation of Israel was “David's kingdom”, although God was also called the “King” of it.  Does that mean David was also God?  ???

    I've addressed this kind of delusion in the “Delusions” thread, Charles.  One cannot just WANT something to be the truth, FORCE little snippets of scripture to support that truth, and expect to come out of it with an ACCURATE truth of what the scriptures teach.

    In other words, you cannot simply WANT Jesus to be the very God he is the Son of, and try to FORCE the scriptures to teach this desire of yours.  

    #307481
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    Scripture teaches about ONE Almighty God, and His Son.

    Mike,

    Scriptures never teaches that ALMIGHTY GOD was on His own without His Son.

    Also no one can define the ONE ALMIGHTY GOD.

    AND I REPEAT ALMIGHTY GOD IS NOT ALMIGHTY WITHOUT HIS SON WITHIN HIM.

    MORE TO COME AS I'M OFF TO BED.

    PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS

    CHARLES

    #307482
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2012,10:09)

    Quote (942767 @ July 22 2012,20:39)
    Hi Mike:

    John the Baptist said what you quoted from the scripture about Jesus.  


    John 1
    14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”

    Hi Marty, could you pinpoint the exact place in these verses where John stops writing about “the Word”, and starts writing about “Jesus”?


    Hi Mike:

    When the Logos, which is what God has spoken and embodies a plan, and that plan pertains to giving His only begotten Son to reconcile the world unto Himself, became a physical reality or was made flesh. John 1:14.

    Saw this scripture in the OT and though it might interest you.

    Quote
    Deu 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left.

    Deu 32:37 And he shall say, Where [are] their gods, [their] rock in whom they trusted,

    Deu 32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, [and] drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, [and] be your protection.

    Deu 32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.

    Deu 32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

    Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #307484
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi marty

    Quote
    When the Logos, which is what God has spoken and embodies a plan, and that plan pertains to giving His only begotten Son to reconcile the world unto Himself, became a physical reality or was made flesh. John 1:14.

    were in scriptures you find this “embodies a plan”

    Quote
    that plan pertains to giving His only begotten Son

    it looks like Christ did have nothing to say in this deal ???

    all those scriptures are part of what Christ did and will do in time ,

    Deu 32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.(is this God almighty that speaks like a man ??)

    #307487
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Pierre:

    The Greek for “the Word” in John 1 is “Logos” and is defined as follows:

    Quote

    Part of Speech:

    noun masculine

    Usage in the KJV:

    word 218, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, Word (Christ) 7, thing 5, not tr 2, misc 32

    Total: 330

    Definition:

    1.of speech A.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
    B.what someone has said a.a word
    b.the sayings of God
    c.decree, mandate or order
    d.of the moral precepts given by God
    e.Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
    f.what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim

    C.discourse a.the act of speaking, speech
    b.the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
    c.a kind or style of speaking
    d.a continuous speaking discourse – instruction

    D.doctrine, teaching
    E.anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
    F.matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
    G.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

    2.its use as respect to the MIND alone A.reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
    B.account, i.e. regard, consideration
    C.account, i.e. reckoning, score
    D.account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
    E.relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation a.reason would

    F.reason, cause, ground

    3.In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
    A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
    TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

    I believe that the following is what is meant in John 1;

    Quote
    1.of speech A.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea

    Of course, Jesus had something to say about this.  He has a “free will” just as all of us.  We see him at the age of 12 saying that “he must be about His Father's business”, and prior to his crucifixion he prayed:

    Quote
    39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

    40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

    41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

    42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

    43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

    44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

    You ask:

    Quote
    Deu 32:40   For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.(is this God almighty that speaks like a man

    It is God Almighty speaking, but not as a man.  He is able to speak any way He chooses.

    Love in Christ,
    Marthy

    #307496
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ July 29 2012,20:18)
    Hi Pierre:

    The Greek for “the Word” in John 1 is “Logos” and is defined as follows:

    Quote

    Part of Speech:

    noun masculine

    Usage in the KJV:

    word 218, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, Word (Christ) 7, thing 5, not tr 2, misc 32

    Total: 330

    Definition:

    1.of speech A.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
    B.what someone has said a.a word
    b.the sayings of God
    c.decree, mandate or order
    d.of the moral precepts given by God
    e.Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
    f.what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim

    C.discourse a.the act of speaking, speech
    b.the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
    c.a kind or style of speaking
    d.a continuous speaking discourse – instruction

    D.doctrine, teaching
    E.anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
    F.matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
    G.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

    2.its use as respect to the MIND alone A.reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
    B.account, i.e. regard, consideration
    C.account, i.e. reckoning, score
    D.account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
    E.relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation a.reason would

    F.reason, cause, ground

    3.In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
    A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
    TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

    I believe that the following is what is meant in John 1;

    Quote
    1.of speech A.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea

    Of course, Jesus had something to say about this.  He has a “free will” just as all of us.  We see him at the age of 12 saying that “he must be about His Father's business”, and prior to his crucifixion he prayed:

    Quote
    39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

    40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

    41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

    42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

    43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

    44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

    You ask:

    Quote
    Deu 32:40   For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.(is this God almighty that speaks like a man

    It is God Almighty speaking, but not as a man.  He is able to speak any way He chooses.

    Love in Christ,
    Marthy


    Marty

    Is your explanation good for anyone called :greenspoon,waterwell,smith,newhouse,ball,shipwreck ,ect,,,,

    The meaning will show according to you that those people do not exist,right ???

    #307500
    limjunus
    Participant

    Jammin stand: believe in the bible

    Philippians 2:6

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    6 Though he was God,[a]
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to. Christ is truly GOD”

    truly God, equal with another truly God?

    Jammin which one is the one and only true God, Jesus or his Father?

    #307505
    Wakeup
    Participant

    I say; dont let satan make you get bogged down in the one subject.
    We must keep on seeking for more treasures,that are still hidden. We have been on this subject for many years now.

    wakeup.

    #307513
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2012,02:25)

    Quote (jammin @ July 26 2012,21:01)
    mike,

    you should go to school mike and study the nature of GOD


    jammin,

    My question still awaits an answer from you.  Here it is again:

    When Paul wrote of Jesus existing in the “form of God”, what did he mean by the word “God”?

    A.  A species of beings?

    B.  A particular being?


    before i answer that question, i still have a question for you.
    you did not remember or you just ignoring the question???

    let me repeat it.
    do you have many forms or natures? or do you only have one form/nature and that is your HUMAN NATURE?

    #307515
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (limjunus @ July 29 2012,19:13)
    Jammin stand: believe in the bible

    Philippians 2:6

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    6 Though he was God,[a]
      he did not think of equality with God
      as something to cling to. Christ is truly GOD”

    truly God, equal with another truly God?

    Jammin which one is the one and only true God, Jesus or his Father?


    they are both GOD by nature

    they have the same nature. they are both TRULY GOD

    the father is truly GOD
    the son is truly GOD

    exmple, you and your father. you are both TRULY HUMAN by nature.

    your father is truly HUMAN
    you are also TRULY HUMAN by nature unless you are an animal

    #307516
    jammin
    Participant

    mike,

    include these questions to your home work

    what is the nature of GOD?

    what is the nature of MAN?

    you may ask for help

    #307518
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    which one is the one and only true God, Jesus or his Father?  

    Lumginus,

    READ THESE SCRIPTURES AND NOTICE :

    Colossians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to GOD, AND THE FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you.

    John 17: Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, whom thou hast sent.

    In colossians it says:

    We give thanks to God, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    NOW:

    Is “God, and the Father” the same ENTITY, ALTHOUGH THERE’S A COMA AFTER GOD???  YES

    In John 17 it says:

    That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ,

    NOW:

    Is “true God, and Jesus Christ” the same ENTITY,ALTHOUGH THERE’S A COMA AFTER GOD???  YES

    EXPLAIN WHY IF IT IS NOT!!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #307522
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    this treasure was never lock

    Terraricca,

    this treasure was never lock

    Ezekiel 44: 2Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be SHUT , it shall not be OPENED, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore IT SHALL BE SHUT.

    WAS HE LOCKED OR NOT???

    WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE SPLITTING OF THE CURTAIN IN THE MOST HOLY PLACE AFTER JESUS DIED , WHICH WAS ALWAYS LOCKED BEHIND THE CURTAIN,???

    WASN’T IT A PROOF THAT GOD IN JESUS WAS LOCKED IN SATAN’S SPIRIT therefore IN ALL HUMAN’S SOULS ,JESUS’ SPIRIT SUBSTANCE” ZION” since Adam’s first SOUL was possessed by Satan, THROUHG SIN, THEREFORE ALSO ALL HIS GENERATIONS,  AND JESUS HAD TO DIE IN ORDER TO REMOVE AND REPLACE HIM.

    because Gods creation ad always access to him from the very beginning ,this is what Paul explain in Col1-

    Colossians:1: The mystery which hath been

    hidden from ages and generations,

    SO IT WAS HIDDEN,OR LOCKED.

    but now is manifested to his saints,

    SO NOW IS MANIFESTED NOT BEFORE

    27 To whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery

    SO GOD THIS TIME HAS IGNORED HIS PEOPLE ,AND MADE IT KNOWN TO THE GENTILES

    among the Gentiles, which is Christ, in you the hope of glory.

    SO HUMANS WERE THE PROPERTY OF SATAN’S SPIRIT, AND SATAN MADE THEIR HEART OF STONE, THEY SEE,BUT NOT PERCEIVE, THEY HERE BUT NOT UNDERSTAND AND THEY NEVER BE CONVERTED.

    FROM THE VERY BEGINNING GOD LOST CONTACT WITH HUMANS,THROUGH ADAM SIN.

    HE TRIED TO PERSUADE THE JEWS, HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE,MOST FILTHY PEOPLE,TO MAKE THEM HOLY, BUT IT WAS OF NO USE!! GOD WAS USELSS!!! HE COULDN’T PERFORM,NOT BECAUSE HE WAS NOT CAPABLE TO DO SO,BUT BECAUSE HIS  PEOPLE INGNORED HIM.

    BUT THROUGH JESUS’ DEATH HE MADE ALL THE WORLD HOLY IN AN INSTANT.

    1 PETER: 9 But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a PURCHASED people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you OUT OF DARKNESS,( OBVIOUS OUT OF SATAN’S GRIP) into his marvellous light:

    10 Who in time past     WERE NOT A PEOPLE :     but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained mercy; but now have obtained mercy.

    OK IN TIME PAST :

    WERE NOT A PEOPLE   SO GOD WAS HANDICAPPED AS A SPIRIT BEING,AND IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME TILL JESUS, THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD CAME AND CONFIRMED ALMIGHTY GOD ON EARTH

    but not all his plan to save what could be saved after the fire of man sin, this was the mistry of the ages,

    THAT IS NOT A MYSTERY. IT IS A PROOF THAT SATAN IS ALSO WORKING THROUGH HIS SPIRIT.GOD IS PATIENT AND WHO IS NOT SAVED NOW IN JESUS TERM, HE WOULD BE SAVED IN ANOTHER TERM WHICH ONLY GOD KNOWS WHEN AND HOW!!! BUT IT HAS TO START THROUGH FIRE AGAIN,LIKE WE DID IN THE BEGINNING OF OUR CREATION.

    the son of God came down from heaven to fulfill his fathers will,

    TO PERFECT HIS WORK THROUGH HIS DEATH.BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY VERY GOOD.

    John 4: Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, that I may PERFECT his work.

    THE FATHER WAS A SPIRIT AND COULD NOT ACHIEVE SALVATION AS A SPIRIT, BUT SINCE HE EMANATED HIS GENUINE SPIRIT OF HIS SON, HIS SON COULD BE SACRIFICED.

    FIRST TO CREATE ALL IN HIM, WITH HIM,AND FOR HIM,IN THE SPIRITUL FLESH, IN ADAM ,AND THEN ,SINCE HE SINNED,TO RECREATE IT IN THE SPIRIT, SINCE ADAM REJECTED GOD,AND LOST COMUNICATION WITH HIM.

    SO JESUS DIED AND ACQUIRED BOTH THE FLESH, AND THE SOUL THROUGH THE ELIMINATION OF SATAN’S SPIRIT FROM ALL SOULS,AND NATURE.

    even until dead ,and this is again a price that anyone that says he believe must pay to enter THROUGH THE DOOR (JESUS GLORIFIED BODY) the kingdom (THE TREASURE)of Christ or of God, YES THEY ARE EQUAL IT DOESN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE SINCE THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME GOD. ONE SPIRIT, AND ONE FLESH The true God, and Jesus Christ BUT UNITED AS ONE MYSTICAL BODY FOR ETERNITY

    the trouble is that a treasure to certain people does not mean the same thing to all ,like I told you before .

    WE AS CORRUPTED BEING JESUS CHRIST, DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING TO ALL!!!

    WE AS CORRUPTED BEING GOD ,DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING TO ALL!!!

    Peace and live in Jesus

    Charles

    #307526
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ July 28 2012,15:49)
    Mike,

    Scriptures never teaches that ALMIGHTY GOD was on His own without His Son.

    AND I REPEAT ALMIGHTY GOD IS NOT ALMIGHTY WITHOUT HIS SON WITHIN HIM.


    Charles,

    Read Rev 4:8 through 5:7.  Maybe you will understand that the Lord God Almighty is the ONE who sits on the throne, while the Lamb (His Son) is someone OTHER THAN Him – who takes a scroll from the hand of the Lord God Almighty.

    Do you understand?  The One who sits on the throne is Almighty in and of Himself.  He doesn't need the Lamb to be Almighty, for He is already Almighty before the Lamb even comes into the picture.

    #307527
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    The nation of Israel was “David's kingdom”, although God was also called the “King” of it.  Does that mean David was also God?

    Mike,

    You simply mixed GOD’S SPIRIT IN JESUS  which is God’s Kingdom,  with Satan’s spirit in the flesh of David who was a king of a Satan possessed people.

    Scripture says that the kingdom of God belong to the Son.

    So if the kingdom of God is of the Son,

    the Son united with the Father, is God of that particular kingdom up to now. The Father could not achieve that particular kingdom since He is a spiritual being, so He acquired it through His MYSTERIOUS UNFATHOMABLE ATTRIBUTES OF HIS own Spirit, who is also known to us as His Son.

    I REPEAT KNOWN TO US AS HIS SON.

    BUT THE WORD SON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR OWN CARNAL DEFINITION,SINCE GOD IS SPIRIT

    Quote
    FORCE little snippets of scripture to support that truth

    NO MIKE THEY ARE NOT LITTLE SNIPPETS OF SCRIPTURE.

    EVERY DOT IN THE SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE AS THE WHOLE OF IT.

    IT IS YOU MIKE TO PLEASE YOUR CORRUPTED CARNAL MIND SINCE YOU ARE HUMAN,LIKE ALL OF US.

    IT IS CLEAR. GOD'S KINGDOM IS OF THE SON,NOT OF THE FATHER.

    THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT, AND ONLY THROUGH THE SON THAT THE FATHER BECAME VISIBLE,BECAME KNOWN,REVEALED.

    TO CONCLUDE:

    Don't consider it the truth when you read  

    ONE ALMIGHTY GOD.

    the ONE is not meant single.

    ALMIGHTY GOD it is not meant to be ONE

    OUR LANGUAGE CANNOT DEFINE ALMIGHTY GOD. NEVER, NEVER AND NEVER.

    PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS

    CHARLES

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