John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 6,501 through 6,520 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #295126
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,09:26)

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,14:17)
    Charity,

    There is evidence that the line of Solomon lost their hold on the throne; just as the line of Saul did previously.  There is no evidence one way or another as regards the line of Nathan.  A descendant of the line of Nathan still keeps God’s promise to David and Yahweh puts on the throne whoever he chooses.


    Hi Kerwin,
           
    Look again at Luke 3:23-31, verse 31 specifically.
    Do you know what “as was supposed” means?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Ed,

    The line of decent in Luke is Mary's line as she is clearly the witness. Matthew gives the line of Joseph.

    #295127
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,09:32)
    Hi Kerwin,

    The line through Solomon was cursed. (2Samuel 12:10-11 and Rev.22:16)


    Ed;

    That is true but Scripture continued to call it the royal line.

    #295129
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,17:23)

    Quote (jammin @ April 26 2012,17:00)

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,16:46)

    Quote (jammin @ April 26 2012,16:19)
    based on the context what did john said?

    did he say that the word is the

    1. Holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls choose your answer


    Hi Jammin,

    Are you trying to change Scripture?
    John said: “The Word” was God.
    And you agreed that the “HolySpirit” was God.      …so what's the problem?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    the problem is your understanding to the context. LOL

    you dont know how to read the bible. you are just jumping to the other verses to support your man made doctrine,. that is not the right way to read the bible. there is a context boy LOL

    now answer my question.
    based on the context, who is the WORD that john said.

    1. holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls answer 1 or 2


    Hi Jammin,

    Does the context change the meaning of: “The Word” was God?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    the Word was GOD correct.
    but john did not say that the word is the holy spirit.

    read the context boy. even the greek bible did not say that the Word is the HS.

    make your own version boy LOL

    #295130
    jammin
    Participant

    14και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

    15ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ον ειπον ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην

    16και εκ του πληρωματος αυτου ημεις παντες ελαβομεν και χαριν αντι χαριτος

    17οτι ο νομος δια μωσεως εδοθη η χαρις και η αληθεια δια ιησου χριστου εγενετο

    18θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

    what did john said?

    did he say that the word is the

    1. Holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls choose your answer

    #295135
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,17:24)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2012,09:20)
    Hi KW,
    The human spirit is not in God nor is it recreated.
    The human spirit of Jesus left him at calvary.

    You mean the soul?


    Nick,

    All I know is Jesus states I am in the Father  and the Father is in me.  I also know God is in him through the Spirit of God so it seems reasonable that Jesus is in God through his spirit.  It is the unity of the spirit.

    Jesus commended(entrusted) his spirit into God's hands.

    Luke 23:46
    King James Version (KJV)

    46And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    I see nowhere that it is written it was not returned to him.


    Hi KW,
    I agree.

    It is not written that his own human spirit returned to him
    The single grain had fallen to the ground and died.

    The new creation lives by the Spirit of God.

    #295139
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,17:35)

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,09:26)

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,14:17)
    Charity,

    There is evidence that the line of Solomon lost their hold on the throne; just as the line of Saul did previously.  There is no evidence one way or another as regards the line of Nathan.  A descendant of the line of Nathan still keeps God’s promise to David and Yahweh puts on the throne whoever he chooses.


    Hi Kerwin,
           
    Look again at Luke 3:23-31, verse 31 specifically.
    Do you know what “as was supposed” means?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Ed,

    The line of decent in Luke is Mary's line as she is clearly the witness.  Matthew gives the line of Joseph.


    Hi Kerwin, You are CORRECT!

    Matt.22:42-45, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44, and Matt.1:20
    all discount Joesph from being the father of Jesus.

    Matt.1:18-20 and Luke 1:35 point directly to
    Jesus being the progeny of God's “HolySpirit”! (Son of God)

    (Note: [Son=48] and “Son of God” is used exactly 48 times in the “AKJV Bible!)

    And Matt. 1:18, Luke 1:35 and Acts 1:14 point
    directly to Jesus being the progeny of Mary! (Son of Man)

    ([Son of Man=97] “Son of Man” Theomatic hit of `97×2 for the times it is used)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #295141
    jammin
    Participant

    14και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

    15ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ον ειπον ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην

    16και εκ του πληρωματος αυτου ημεις παντες ελαβομεν και χαριν αντι χαριτος

    17οτι ο νομος δια μωσεως εδοθη η χαρις και η αληθεια δια ιησου χριστου εγενετο

    18θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

    what did john said?

    did he say that the word is the

    1. Holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls choose your answer

    #295142
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,17:37)

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,09:32)
    Hi Kerwin,

    The line through Solomon was cursed. (2Samuel 12:10-11 and Rev.22:16)


    Ed;

    That is true but Scripture continued to call it the royal line.


    Hi Kerwin,

    The Crown was first taken away from David, starting in 1Kings 11:31-35, with
    the removal of 10 tribes, and finishing in 1Kings 12:20. (study well my friend!)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org

    #295144
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ April 26 2012,19:48)
    14και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

     15ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ον ειπον ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην

     16και εκ του πληρωματος αυτου ημεις παντες ελαβομεν και χαριν αντι χαριτος

     17οτι ο νομος δια μωσεως εδοθη η χαρις και η αληθεια δια ιησου χριστου εγενετο

     18θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

    what did john said?

    did he say that the word is the

    1. Holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls choose your answer


    Im sure you care that john was saying all new things…mixing old things into a very odd new result…after all the murder of Jesus changed the order of what was hope for……an is clearly the strength behind the catholic church's victorious new on going reign…

    Na never mind …..Cant believe the Gospel of John never gets directly questioned for motivation…an made accountable towards dictator positions ….

    everything right up to…the priest very serious about casting demons out of people…an devils entering bodies…people having satan as their father….so go ahead an abuse them with your mouth….stupidness, unless demons can repent an become normal…no they forgot to tell us if that was possible…the word is nothing without reason to carry on in  its own striff…

    An Jesus can still be a reincarnated old soul, in new vessle…
    theres more ways than John's way to skin a cat…an more revealing towards the true nature of his murders

    #295172
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,14:54)

    Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,17:37)

    Quote (Ed J @ April 26 2012,09:32)
    Hi Kerwin,

    The line through Solomon was cursed. (2Samuel 12:10-11 and Rev.22:16)


    Ed;

    That is true but Scripture continued to call it the royal line.


    Hi Kerwin,

    The Crown was first taken away from David, starting in 1Kings 11:31-35, with
    the removal of 10 tribes, and finishing in 1Kings 12:20. (study well my friend!)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org


    Ed,

    The crown was taken from Salomon's line but they retained two tribes for the sake of David.  The line of kings is mentioned on the return from Babylonian captivity.  

    Jesus is the natural decedent of David through his son Nathan and the adopted son of David through his son Solomon.

    #295173
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    It is written:

    John 12
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.

    It is true that the Spirit of God only came as Councilor because Jesus died and was given authority to send it.

    #295178
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2012,14:42)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 26 2012,20:28)

    Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2012,13:06)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 26 2012,19:43)

    Quote (terraria @ April 26 2012,12:23)
    F

    Quote
    You certainly do have a perverted belief concerning Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!  

    :D :D :D what is it ???? I would like to know , scriptures not your OPINION:laugh:


    Pier,

    Oh, I left you out! You are of the same opinion as Mike that Father Yahweh's word is an actual being, right?  :D


    F

    my name is ;Peter ,Pierre, Sephase ,Bedros,Petrus,Pietro,

    and so on in different languages ,this name means ROCK

    NOW AM I A ROCK ??? OR A HUMAN BEING CALLED “ROCK”


    Pieear,

    I have always been told that the name Peter means 'small stone' or 'small pebble”. Surely you are not deceived into believing the doctrine “On Peter the Church is built.”, are you?


    F

    I believe what scriptures say ,but did Christ meant Peter himself ??? or allusion to his name and faith, what you think ???


    P

    What Yahshua was giving reference to as the 'rock' is what Kepha had said in reply to Yahshua's asking the question “Whom do men say that I the son of man am?” Kepha's reply was “You are the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh.” Note that Yahshua said in response to Kepha's answer “Blessed are you Simeon Bar Yahnah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but it is my Father who has revealed this to you. The “rock” (or “solid foundation”) that Yahshua said that he would build his assembly (body) of believers was that he was the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh. We must believe this truth as was revealed to Kepha by Father Yahweh.

    Note also the other responses that Yahshua received from the question that he asked his students (disciples) concerning who men said that he is. In none of their responses will you find them saying 'Some say that you are “God” or “a god”.' If anyone at that time believed that Yahshua was “God” or “a god”, they surely would have mentioned something so outlandish as this, but they did not. I can only conclude from by observance of what is recorded in the so-called “New Testament” that no one at that time believed that Yahshua was “God” or “a god” and that we are to believe that Yahshua is the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh and that it was He Who had raised him from death and the grave.

    #295180
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 27 2012,15:15)

    Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2012,14:42)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 26 2012,20:28)

    Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2012,13:06)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 26 2012,19:43)

    Quote (terraria @ April 26 2012,12:23)
    F

    Quote
    You certainly do have a perverted belief concerning Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!  

    :D :D :D what is it ???? I would like to know , scriptures not your OPINION:laugh:


    Pier,

    Oh, I left you out! You are of the same opinion as Mike that Father Yahweh's word is an actual being, right?  :D


    F

    my name is ;Peter ,Pierre, Sephase ,Bedros,Petrus,Pietro,

    and so on in different languages ,this name means ROCK

    NOW AM I A ROCK ??? OR A HUMAN BEING CALLED “ROCK”


    Pieear,

    I have always been told that the name Peter means 'small stone' or 'small pebble”. Surely you are not deceived into believing the doctrine “On Peter the Church is built.”, are you?


    F

    I believe what scriptures say ,but did Christ meant Peter himself ??? or allusion to his name and faith, what you think ???


    P

    What Yahshua was giving reference to as the 'rock' is what Kepha had said in reply to Yahshua's asking the question “Whom do men say that I the son of man am?” Kepha's reply was “You are the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh.” Note that Yahshua said in response to Kepha's answer “Blessed are you Simeon Bar Yahnah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but it is my Father who has revealed this to you. The “rock” (or “solid foundation”) that Yahshua said that he would build his assembly (body) of believers was that he was the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh. We must believe this truth as was revealed to Kepha by Father Yahweh.

    Note also the other responses that Yahshua received from the question that he asked his students (disciples) concerning who men said that he is. In none of their responses will you find them saying 'Some say that you are “God” or “a god”.' If anyone at that time believed that Yahshua was “God” or “a god”, they surely would have mentioned something so outlandish as this, but they did not. I can only conclude from by observance of what is recorded in the so-called “New Testament” that no one at that time believed that Yahshua was “God” or “a god” and that we are to believe that Yahshua is the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh and that it was He Who had raised him from death and the grave.


    F

    very good ,I can say that this is likely true ,

    thank you ,for a clear and understandable quote,

    #295184
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Frank,
    Yes the Word that revealed truth to Peter is the Rock
    Thus it aligns with mt 7.24 f etc

    #295187
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ April 26 2012,19:48)
    14και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

     15ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ον ειπον ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην

     16και εκ του πληρωματος αυτου ημεις παντες ελαβομεν και χαριν αντι χαριτος

     17οτι ο νομος δια μωσεως εδοθη η χαρις και η αληθεια δια ιησου χριστου εγενετο

     18θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

    what did john said?

    did he say that the word is the

    1. Holy spirit
    2. son of GOD

    pls choose your answer


    jammit,

    When are you going to finally come to the simple realization that Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word. Father Yahweh's word that is given reference to in the first verse of the so-called “Gospel of John” is not in reference to a separate being that existed with Him in the beginning, but is simply in reference to Father Yahweh's word that is said to be with Him and that has might, strength, power, and authority. If one were to etymologically trace the words 'god' and 'theos' back to the original Hebrew meaning, they would find that it leads to the Hebrew root word 'yl or wl' which simply means might, strength or power (authority):

    'yl, (the original 'yl i.e. alef, yod, lamed) meaning: strength, power and might [“strength, power” – The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon p.43a

    It is commonly thought that the term derived from a root yl or wl, meaning “to be powerful” – Encyclopedia Judaica, God, names of, EL

    #410-el from #352-'yl” – Strong's Hebrew Dictionary

    #295190
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Frank,
    Those that are of the Spirit are LIVING STONES [1Peter 2.4]
    They form a building that is a temple for God as Spirit.[eph 2.19-22]

    #295191
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Frank,
    And this lastly becomes the New Jerusalem including the prophets.[Rev 21.10f]

    #295194
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2012,13:00)
    Frank,

    We are of the opinion that if the PERSON Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13, then there is no reason the PERSON Jesus isn't called by that same name in John, 1 John, and Luke.

    There is much context to confirm that it is the PERSON Jesus who is called by that name in these books, while there is nothing to discredit this understanding.

    Frank, since you know it is Jesus who is referred to by this title in Rev 19:13, why do you have such a hard time believing it is also Jesus who is referred to by this title in these other scriptures?


    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 25 2012,20:10)
    It is only in Revelation that it is made known that Yahshua's name/title is called “The Word of Yahweh”.


    I agree that Jesus referred to by the title “the Word of God” in Revelation 19:13.

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 25 2012,20:10)
    He is referred to as such because it is his and our Father Yahweh's word that proceeds from his mouth and it is he who is the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.


    Exactly!  He is referred to as “the Word of God” because he spoke the words of God to the people in this last time period.  

    Frank, WHEN did Jesus speak the words of God to the people?  Was it only AFTER he ascended to where he was before?  Or did he do most of his speaking of the word of God while he was on earth as a human prophet of God?

    If you answer truthfully and scripturally, you'll agree that Jesus did the vast majority of his speaking as a human being on earth.  And if that is WHEN he was doing most of his work as God's spokesman, then doesn't it make sense that the title “the Word of God” applied to him at this time?

    So when John tells us that the Word of God became flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten, why wouldn't John be talking about that same spokesman of God who is called by the title “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13?  

    One other thing:  You are the one who mentioned Heb 1:1-2, right?  Did you overlook the fact that the Son through whom God spoke to us in these last days is the very same Son through whom God made the universe (ages)?

    #295199
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi MB,
    Yes Jesus is a human being.
    Yes he was the vessel God used for speaking through.

    #295201
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2012,10:14)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2012,13:00)
    Frank,

    We are of the opinion that if the PERSON Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13, then there is no reason the PERSON Jesus isn't called by that same name in John, 1 John, and Luke.

    There is much context to confirm that it is the PERSON Jesus who is called by that name in these books, while there is nothing to discredit this understanding.

    Frank, since you know it is Jesus who is referred to by this title in Rev 19:13, why do you have such a hard time believing it is also Jesus who is referred to by this title in these other scriptures?


    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 25 2012,20:10)
    It is only in Revelation that it is made known that Yahshua's name/title is called “The Word of Yahweh”.


    I agree that Jesus referred to by the title “the Word of God” in Revelation 19:13.

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 25 2012,20:10)
    He is referred to as such because it is his and our Father Yahweh's word that proceeds from his mouth and it is he who is the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.


    Exactly!  He is referred to as “the Word of God” because he spoke the words of God to the people in this last time period.  

    Frank, WHEN did Jesus speak the words of God to the people?  Was it only AFTER he ascended to where he was before?  Or did he do most of his speaking of the word of God while he was on earth as a human prophet of God?

    If you answer truthfully and scripturally, you'll agree that Jesus did the vast majority of his speaking as a human being on earth.  And if that is WHEN he was doing most of his work as God's spokesman, then doesn't it make sense that the title “the Word of God” applied to him at this time?

    So when John tells us that the Word of God became flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten, why wouldn't John be talking about that same spokesman of God who is called by the title “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13?  

    One other thing:  You are the one who mentioned Heb 1:1-2, right?  Did you overlook the fact that the Son through whom God spoke to us in these last days is the very same Son through whom God made the universe (ages)?


    Mike,

    Yahshua was not a spokesman of Father Yahweh's word in the beginning, since he did not exist and was not “begotten” back then as you erroneously believe. Yahshua also did not empty himself of being “a god” that existed with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as you erroneously believe.

    Yahweh, Who at many times and IN VARIOUS MANNERS spoke IN TIME PAST unto the fathers BY THE PROPHETS, Has in THIS LAST TIME PERIOD spoken unto us by His son, whom he has appointed heir of all things and BECAUSE OF whom also He made the worlds; …  (Hebrews 1:1-2).

    ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
    Exodus 32
    By Voy Wilks
    3/9/98

    The Hebrew word elohim, even though a plural, is in most places treated as a singular when referring to the one and only Yahweh, indicated by singular pronouns which accompany Elohim; I, me, mine, he, him, his, etc. Sometimes elohim appears in Scriptures even when referring to one pagan god (idol). This is made clear in Exodus chapter 32.

    The Israelites said to Aaron, “Up, make us gods which shall go before us, …” Ex. 32:1, KJV). So Aaron fashioned a golden calf and the Israelites said, “”These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt!” (Ex. 32:4,8, KJV).

    Gods (Ex. 32:1,4,8) comes from the word elohim, of course, If read only casually, these verses would seem to indicate more than one god, or idol, had been made. But notice the remaining words in this bit of history:

    0     Aaron fashioned it (the elohim) with a tool (Ex. 32:4).

    0     Aaron built an altar for it {not them} (Ex. 32:5).

    0     For they have made a molten calf {only one calf} (Ex. 32:8).

    0     And have worshiped it (singular, Ex. 32:8).

    0     Moses entered the camp and saw the calf (only one calf, Ex. 32:19).

    0     Moses destroyed the calf (singular, not calves, plural, Ex. 32:20).

    0     There came out this calf (singular, Ex. 32:24).

    0     Yahweh plagued the people because they made the calf (singular, Ex. 32:35).

    0     Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, “This is thy god [elohim]  that brought thee up out
    of Egypt …” (Neh. 9:18.

    0     They made a calf [only one calf]  in Horeb, and worshiped the molten image” (only one image, Ps. 106:19).

    0     They made a calf (only one calf) in those days (Acts 7:41).

    Several times the word elohim appears in these verses, More than a dozen times, words are employed which indicate clearly that elohim can be used as singular as well as a plural. This also come through clearly in another quotation from Moses, as follows:

    “And I looked, and, behold, ye … had made you a molten calf: … And I took your sin, the molten calf which ye made, and burnt it with fire, and stamped it, and ground it very small, until it was small as dust …” (Duet. 9:12,16,21).

    Only one god (elohim), and only one calf; the golden calf.

    Note: The word “these” in the phrase, “these be thy gods” (Ex. 32:4,8), can also be translated “this,” as indicated in Neh. 9:18, and in Strong's Concordance. Obviously, Ex. 32:4 should have been translated, “This is the god who brought you up out of the land of Egypt.” On another occasion, a single calf (one calf) was referred to as elohim:

    “I have spurned your calf  O Samaria. … A workman made it; it *is not god [elohim]. The calf of Samaria shall be broken to pieces” (Hosea 8:5,6).

    * Webmaster's Note: The word “god [elohim]” in the above verse is not in reference to Yahweh as “Elohim”, but is in reference to an idol god [elohim] with no power, strength or might and can also be translated as follows:

    “… A workman made it; it has no power [strength, might] whatsoever.”

    End Webmaster's Note

    Moses An Elohim To Aaron And Pharaoh

    But Moses said to Yahweh, Oh my Yahweh, I am not eloquent, … Then  … Yahweh … said, “Is there not Aaron your brother, the Levite? … He shall speak for you to the people; and he shall be a mouth for you, and you [Moses] shall be to him as *god [elohim]” (Ex. 4:10-16).

    And Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I make you as *god [elohim] to Pharaoh; …” (Ex. 7:1).

    * Webmaster's Note: The above two verses can also be translated in the following manner:

    “… and you [Moses] shall be to him as *one with power [authority]” (Ex. 4:10-16).

    … “See, I make you as *one with power [authority] to Pharaoh; … (Ex. 7:1).

    Moses as a spokesman for Yahweh communicated to Aaron what Yahweh had communicated to him. Aaron in turn acted as a spokesman for Moses in communicating
    to Pharaoh what Yahweh had said to Moses, since Aaron was more eloquent in speaking than Moses.

    End Webmaster's Note

    From these Scriptures we see that Moses became an elohim to Pharaoh and to his brother Aaron. Question: What was the numerical value of Moses?  Did he consist of one, two or three persons? All must agree; there was only one Moses. Nevertheless,  the ONE man, Moses, was elohim (plural, indicating authority and majesty). Again, there was only one Moses, not two or three.

    Chemosh An Elohim

    “Will you not possess what Chemosh your elohim gives you to possess?” (Judges 11:24).

    Chemosh (singular) was an elohim.

    Dagon An Elohim

    The second time Dagon fell over, his head and hands were broken off, putting fear into the Philistines (1 Sam. 5:1-6). Notice in the next verse the use of the word elohim (plural), even though there was only one statue. The men of Ashdod said,

    “The ark of Elohim must not remain with us; for his hand is heavy upon us, and upon Dagon our elohim” (1 Sam. 5:7, RSV).

    Ashtoreth, Chemosh & Milcom

    “… because he [Israel] has forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess [elohim] of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god (elohim), of Moab, and Milcom the god [elohim] of the Ammorites, and have not walked in My ways …” (1 Kings 11:33).

    IN THE MAJORITY OF CASES, ELOHIM EQUALS ONLY ONE

    The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

    Eerdman's Publishing Company, Volume Two, 1984, Page 1254

    “One of the oldest and most widely distributed terms for deity known to the human race is el, with its derivations 'Elim, 'Elohim, and Eloah. Like theos, Deus and God, it is a generic term, including every member of the class deity. It may even denote a position of honor and authority among men. …  It is, therefore, a general term expressing majesty and authority, … By far the most frequent form used by O. T. writers is the plural, 'Elohim, but they use it regularly with singular verbs and adjectives to denote a singular idea. Several explanations have been offered of this usage of a plural term to denote a singular idea – it expresses the fullness and manifoldness of the divine nature, or that it is a plural of majesty used in the manner of royal persons, …” (Some of the emphasis was added by Voy).

    The New Bible Dictionary

    Eerdman's Publishing Company, 1979, Page 478

    “Elohim: Though a plural form, Elohim can be treated as a singular, in which case it means the one supreme deity, …”

    Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

    By Harris, Archer & Waltke, Volume One, 1980, page 44

    “'Elohim. God gods, judges, angels. … This word, which is generally viewed as the plural of eloah,' is found more frequently in Scripture than either 'el' or 'eloah' for the true God. The plural ending is usually described as a plural of majesty and not intended as a true plural of God. This is seen in the fact that the noun 'elohim' is consistently used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular.”

    Footnote in the Emphasized Bible – Genesis 1:1

    By J. B. Rotherham, 1897

    “Hebrew: 'elohim. “Probably a plural of quality = 'God-head, ' as our 'Lordship' = Lord (Davies, H.L.. p 9). It should be carefully observed, that although 'elohim is plural in form, yet when, as here, it is construed with a verb in the singular, it is naturally singular in sense, especially since the 'plural of quality' or 'excellence'  abounds in Hebrew in cases where the reference is undeniably to something that which must be understood in the singular number.”

    The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary

    Zondervan Publishing House, 1982, Page 248

    “Elohim, the most frequent Hebrew word for God (over 2,500 times in the O. T.). Elohim is plural in form, but is singular in construction (used with singular verbs and adjectives). When applied to the one true God, the plural is due to the Hebrew idiom of a plural of magnitude or majesty.”

    In the majority of cases, the word elohim is used in Scriptures as a singular term. There is only ONE (one) Yahweh, not two, three, or a dozen. There is no Trinity. There is no Twinity. There is no duality. Instead, there is only ONE and only one true Deity. That one true Deity is Yahweh, just as Yahshua reported:

    And one of the scribes … asked him, “What commandment is first of all?” Yahshua answered, “The first is, “Here O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim, Yahweh is ONE; …” (Mark 12:28-30; quoted from Deut. 6:4).

    From these Scriptures we see that it is not optional. We are commanded to believe that Yahweh is ONE (O-N-E), not two or three.

    “And this is eternal life, that we know thee the only true El, and Yahshua Messiah whom thou has sent” (John 17:3).

    Scriptures reveal that elohim can be correctly used in referring to one, or to more than one object or person. Since many Scriptures proclaim there is only one Yahweh, then we can be sure the phrase, Yahweh the Elohim of Israel” refers to only one person, one being, one El, one Deity. There is no other (Neh. 9:6; Isa. 43:10-13; 44:6; 45:18,22; John 17:3).

    “To you [Israel] it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh is Elohim; there is no other besides him [not them or us]. Out of heaven he let you here his voice … know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is Elohim in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other” (Deut. 4:35-39, RSV).

    The Books of Deuteronomy and Psalms confirm that the title Elohim is sometimes used as a singular noun:

    “For Yahweh your God (El) is God (Elohim) of gods (elohim) and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God (El), …” (Deut. 10:17, RSV).

    “Oh give thanks to the God (Elohim) of gods (elohim), for his steadfast love endures forever” (Ps. 136:2, RSV).

    The one Yahweh is the Elohim (singular) of elohim (plural); the GOD of gods. Te ONE Yahweh, this ONE  Elohim, is referred to 36 times throughout Psalm 136 by singular pronouns; HE, HIS, and HIM, indicating one person.

    We see then, elohim, even thou technically a plural, often refers to the ONE Yahweh, the ONE true El.

    Conclusion

    The evidence is conclusive: The word elohim is sometimes singular. This is certainly true when referring to Yahweh (Deut 6:4,5; Mark 12:28-30). There is only ONE (one) Yahweh, not two, three, or a dozen.

    For further study, see “Elohim: Singular Or Plural?” Other free literature is available from:

    Assembly of Yahweh (7th Day)
    Box 509, Cisco, TX 76437

    Also see:

    LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE
    http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/758082821/let-us-make-man-in-our-image

    Related Articles

    [PDF] Elohim – Plural Or Singular? Hebrew Word Study
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….lar.pdf

    [PDF] Plural Hebrew Words Used As Singular Words
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….one.pdf

    [PDF] The Let Us Make Man Argument
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….026.pdf

    SOURCE

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

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