John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 23,521 through 23,540 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #942111
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Berean, God all-knowing, Jesus, was A SON OF MAN from the beginning, to be clear,….

    Me

    What a BIGINNING ?

    Before or when our World WAS created?

    Or the BIGINNING OF the incarnated  SON OF GOD ?

    If 1 , the Son WAS NOT in the flesh but in the form of God, AND HIS NAME WAS NOT JESUS BUT ” THE WORD OF GOD” OR MICHAEL 👉 Rev.12:7.

    You

    With reference to Jesus’ own words, John the Baptist, was MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL INCARNATED AS A HUMAN, and in the above John, made it clear that HE NEVER KNEW JESUS, while he was in heaven.

    Me

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying above. Do you think John the Baptist is Michael? That’s it ?

    🙏

     

    #942113
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You: What a BEGINNING?

    Before or when our World WAS created?

    Or the BEGINNING OF the incarnated  SON OF GOD?

    Me: THE VERY BEGINNING BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED!

    You: If 1 , the Son WAS NOT in the flesh but in the form of God, AND HIS NAME WAS NOT JESUS BUT ” THE WORD OF GOD”

    He was in the flesh and His name was Jesus, BUT NOT YET “THE WORD” OF GOD.

    As manifested on Mount tabor.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying above. Do you think John the Baptist is Michael? That’s it ?

    Yes, Michael, as the prince of heaven.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #942116
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus
    2) John the Baptist is Michael
    Thanks

    🙏

     

    #942123
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Berean,

    You: Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus

    Me: John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven. 

    From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also, while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Luke 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 

    The above scripture made it clear that Jesus’ name came also from heaven, and if Jesus pre-existed He definitely HAD A NAME NO?

    Zecharia 3:1And the Lord shewed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord: and Satan stood on his right hand to be his adversary. 2And the Lord said to Satan: The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan: and the Lord that chose Jerusalem rebuke thee: Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? 3And Jesus was clothed with filthy garments: and he stood before the face of the angel. 4Who answered, and said to them that stood before him, saying: Take away the filthy garments from him. And he said to him: Behold I have taken away thy iniquity, and have clothed thee with change of garments. 5And he said: Put a clean mitre upon his head: and they put a clean mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments, and the angel of the Lord stood.

    6And the angel of the Lord protested to Jesus, saying: 7Thus saith the Lord of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and Beep my charge, thou also shalt judge my house, and shalt keep my courts, and I will give thee some of them that are now present here to walk with thee.

    8Hear, O Jesus thou high priest, then and thy friends that dwell before thee, for they are portending men: for behold I WILL BRING MY SERVANT THE ORIENT. 9For behold the stone that I have laid before Jesus: upon one stone there are seven eyes: behold I will grave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts: and I will take away the iniquity of that land in one day. 10In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, every man shell call his friend under the vine and under the fig tree.

    The above scripture is a depiction of Jesus and His mission.

     

    and love in Jesus Christ

     

    2) John the Baptist is Michael

    #942124
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Thanks for your reply, I hope you are having a good week.

    Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Jesus did not promise eternal life before the world began, our One True God The Father gave HIS WORD to make mankind eternal.

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us.

    As I also gave you,

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    In the above we have God’s WORD that He will take a Son of Man and make him into His own Son and settle him into His house and in His kingdom for evermore. There exists no eternal son when God gave this promise.

    The resurrected Jesus is God’s WORD of eternal life promised to mankind made true, to which gives us hope because we are also mortal humans as he was.

    1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    I am just going to stop right here because you as well as others seem to lack a fundamental truth and it is apparent that it is causing blindness where you are unable to see clearly what so many scriptures teach. I will post about this next.

    #942126
    Jodi
    Participant

    To Berean and All,

    This one scripture below leads us to a great deal of light when applied to so many other passages and so I will be repeating it throughout this post.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;…31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse! Its rider is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    Matthew 3: 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    1 John 3: 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him,

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Acts 2: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Romans 8: 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Matthew 20: 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    Ezekiel 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy*; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    John 17: 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    Matthew 16: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Matthew 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his Word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us..

    Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Ephesians 5: 9 FOR THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT IS IN ALL GOODNESS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TRUTH.

    Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    The Fundamental biblical truth is that our eternal life is held in being born of God’s Spirit to the cause of righteousness where we will walk in all His ways. By such there is no sin and thus no death. The promise of eternal life before the world began was a promise of inheriting God’s Spirit where we are to be led in all ways by that Spirit and thus are Sons of God, joint heirs with Christ.

    The above scriptures and sooo many more reveal many additional truths to which I will speak to a few of those below,

    Jesus was the only mortal human given the glory of God, he had received the Spirit without measure at the river Jordan. He was baptized, called to righteousness drinking of the one cup of the Spirit, born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove, made a Son of God filled with grace and truth, sent out into the world being led in all ways by the Spirit.

    With that Spirit he became our promised Christ as the man Jesus was ANOINTED to preach God’s word, perform God’s works, deliver captives bringing forth salvation.

    The Son of Man, Jesus, is returning in our Father’s glory to judge the world in righteousness. This man’s glory is God’s Spirit dwelling in him that he received by promise when he was resurrected from the dead. This man’s glory is that of a firstborn over a new heaven and earth, where he is appointed as a king of kings and a lord of lords sitting on his father David’s throne. 

    In our One True God the Father’s WORD before the world began was this man, him being called to righteousness, him being made a Son of God being born of the Spirit and thus led by the Spirit, him being for a light unto Jews and Gentiles, him dying on the cross bringing forth redemption, him being made into God’s firstborn a king higher than all kings, him bringing forth the end where God’s purpose from the beginning was to be ALL IN ALL, man living in the image of God for evermore. God’s WORD of eternal life exists through His WORD of a promised redeemer who would bring forth the promised WORD of life, the two cannot be separated.

    Our One True God the Father MADE ALL things, doing so by REASON OF and FOR the anointed man Jesus. This is obvious, as ALL things do not just pertain to the creation in Genesis, but that of MAKING also dominions where He made David a king and his son Jesus an eternal king of kings.

    Our redemption through Jesus Christ is because the man Jesus is proof that the Spirit does indeed cause righteousness in a HUMAN BEING. Man can do nothing of himself, the flesh profits us nothing, it is the Spirit that brings forth life because it is the Spirit that bears fruit to all goodness, righteousness and truth. This is why our hope is in our own promised inheritance to be made joint heir with Christ. Our hope is to be led by the Spirit as Jesus is led by the Spirit, to drink of the cup that he drinks of, where then we will be eternal Sons of God too. This is why God redeems us through ONE MAN, because if the man Jesus through the Spirit can obey all of God’s commands then we can too and thus there will be no sin and no death.

    Our One True God the Father IS LIFE, He gave the man Jesus LIFE and put all of mankind into his hands where Jesus is the man appointed by God to judge and give LIFE to others doing so through the power of the Spirit that dwells in him. This was all God’s WORD before the world began. God had declared the END from the beginning where a man would execute His purpose.

     

    #942130
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    This was all God’s WORD before the world began. God had declared the END from the beginning where a man would execute His purpose.

    Me: It’s pointless to make such long posts, all to try WITHOUT ACHIEVE, that Jesus is only a man.

    Jodi, since he WAS MADE FLESH, HE WAS NOT FLESH IN THE BEGINNING. PAUL TELLS US CLEARLY THAT HE WAS “IN THE FORM OF GOD”

    👉 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    When a prophecy comes true, we don’t say “it was made flesh”

    THE SON OF GOD “NAMED” THE WORD “WAS MADE FLESH” YES I BELIEVE AMEN!

    You’ll never be able to make me believe anything other than that… Besides, it’s USELESS, I tell you in advance.

    🙏

    #942131
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove,

    Me: I’m afraid Jodi your preaching is ONLY in relation to your carnal-minded understanding regarding Jesus’ entire DIVINE/HUMAN process. A process commenced at the very beginning John1:1-4.

    In the above, YOU ARE FALSELY PREACHING THAT

    JESUS WAS BORN OF THE SPIRIT AT THE RIVER JORDAN. Read and accept the PURE truth:

    IF JESUS, WAS NOT THE GENUINE SACRIFICE OF GOD FOR THE REDEMPTION OF THE HUMAN RACE IN SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD THROUGH EVE’S SIN,

    WAS NOT TOTALLY DIVINE EVEN AS A SON OF MAN, TO BE CLEAR:

    A UNIQUE HUMAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD BODY,

    THE NEW JERUSALEM.

    GOD THE FATHER WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN OUR SAVIOUR!

    Luke 1:31Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb,

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

     32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High;

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever. 33And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done,

    because I know not man?

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    35And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    ISN’T THE HOLY GHOST THE ACTUAL GENUINE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    THE POWER OF THE MOST HIGH ISN’T A CLEAR REFERENCE TO

    GOD ALMIGHTY?

    YES OR NO Please:

    I am convinced that it is a reference to

    GOD ALMIGHTY. 

    BUT IT SEEMS TO ME QUITE CLEAR, THAT YOU DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT YOU SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE, THAT THE ABOVE IS A REFERENCE TO GOD ALMIGHTY, 

    SINCE YOU WITHIN YOUR CARNAL-MINDED UNDERSTANDING TOOK IT FOR GRANTED THAT GOD ALMIGHTY, YOUR GOD ALMIGHTY I’M AFRAID, 

    TO CONCEIVE HIS SON, NEEDED, AND MADE USE BOTH OF THE CORRUPTED HUMAN OVUM AND SPERM TO HAVE HIS SON BORN OF A WOMAN! 

    SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR Jodi and in this case from now on, ALSO Gene, that

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK,

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO HIS ENTIRE WORK,

    EVEN WHEN IT IS THE LEAST RELATED TO THE FLESH. 

    Read please:

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

    Jodi, and Gene,

    MARY IN THAT INSTANT OF HER OWN WORDS

    “….Behold the handmaid of the Lord;

    be it DONE to me according to thy word.”

    immediately became the mother of

    the SON OF GOD

    IT IS THE WORD OF GOD NO? THEN DEFINITELY

    COMPLETE!

    You: made a Son of God filled with grace and truth,

    NO Jodi, NO THE ABOVE IS A PURE INVENTION COMING OUT FROM

    YOUR CARNAL-MINDED UNDERSTANDING.

    READ Jodi  THE PURE TRUTH AGAIN!

    BE IT DONE ACCORDING TO YOUR 

    “WORD” 

    I REPEAT: GOD’S OWN WORD Jodi,

    JESUS, HIMSELF IN THAT INSTANT BECAME

    THE SON OF GOD WITHIN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB AS A WHOLE, WHO SHE  CARRIED WITHIN IT

    (1) THE POWER OF GOD ALMIGHTY

    (2) THE OVERSHADOWING OF 

    THE HOLY GHOST , and 

    (3) “THE WORD” made flesh

    JESUS”

    THE SON OF GOD!

    NOT AT THE RIVER JORDAN

    WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!

    1John5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven,

    the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.

    And these three are one. 

    8And there are three that give testimony on earth:

    the spirit, and the water, and the blood:

    and these three are one.

    MORE TO COME

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    #942133
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    I am going to make this one as short as possible.

    Biblical facts,

    The Son of Man is coming in the glory of the Father where he makes righteous judgements through the Spirit of the Father that is dwelling in him, to which we read he received the Holy Spirit according to a PROMISE when he was raised from the dead. That promise was God’s WORD from the beginning, even before the world began. 

    Isaiah’s PROPHECIES, God’s WORD, is not yet fulfilled, to which Revelation 19 also speaks to.

    What is the glory of this Son of Man?

    What are we told as to how, when Jesus returns, he is able to fulfill God’s promises, God’s purpose that has been with Him from the beginning? 

    These two questions have the same answer,

    Our Heavenly Father’s Spirit, for it’s fruit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth and is LIFE because of righteousness, no sin and no death. 

    What is your answer Berean?

    #942134
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Me: Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus

    You: John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also, while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Me

    That doesn’t tell us
    that his name was Jesus IN THE BEGINNING
    WHEN HE CREATED OUR HEAVENS AND EARTH(JOHN 1)

    AND for John the baptist, You have no bible verse THAT Say he IS Michael or a little study THAT show This  IS the case.

    So 🤔

     

    #942135
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    How about in my long post yesterday don’t read my own statements given at the end, but just read slowly and carefully through the scriptures I gave. I hope that is not too much to ask.

    #942136
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    For the symbolic hundredth time I tell you that I do not believe in a purely human but divine-human Christ who put aside his divine attributes and who lived as a simple man by the HOLY SPIRIT surely.

    Who, being IN THE FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and TOOK UPON HIM the form of a servant, and was made in the LIKENESS OF MEN:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    On the other hand you don’t trust the King Jame Bible, and not that
    because Paul tells us:

    “all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

    #942137
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    I know what you believe and my purpose is giving you scripture to show you how it is in error. But you continue to ignore those scriptures, you refuse to discuss them.

    Tell me what those divine attributes that your pre-existing Jesus left behind were? 

    John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Jesus didn’t leave glory behind Berean, he received it and then was sent out into the world.

    He received God’s DIVINE NATURE at the river Jordan, why he said that seeing him was actually seeing God who sent him and why we are told that the ANOINTED was in the form of God. He received the Spirit without measure, where he was equal to God but he made himself of no reputation, he gave all credit to God, even saying that he could do nothing of himself. 

    Can you not put simple two and two together?

    Did Isaiah not speak God’s WORD and it became true in the flesh of Jesus?

    John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    God’s WORD from Isaiah was that a man would receive God’s Spirit, a calling to righteousness for to be a light, a glory that God would give to any other. JESUS WAS FILLED WITH GRACE AND TRUTH BY BEING BORN OF GOD’S SPIRIT.

    Berean, Phil 2 says LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU THAT WAS ALSO IN CHRIST JESUS

    Did you ever ask yourself WHY it says that?? Or do you just not pay any attention to passages that don’t fit your doctrine, that seems plausible since you constantly refuse to speak to passages I give.

    Who was Paul speaking about????

    1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy*; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Jesus upon receiving the Spirit without measure became the FULL BODY OF GOD’S SPIRIT, he existed in the glorious image of God, the anointed Jesus sent out to be for a light was in the form of God.

    The men Paul speaks of in Phil 2 are these men in 1 Cor 12 who also received the Spirit each a gift where together they made up the body of the anointed Jesus for he received all the gifts of the Spirit. This body of men were sent out into the world, they were not of the world as Jesus was not of the world, they were sent as Jesus was sent, sent from heaven, sent from God. They were in the form of God via their gift of the Spirit and they needed to have the mind of the anointed Jesus, also make themselves of no reputation but give all glory to God recognizing that their works are through the Spirit, they too can do nothing of themselves.

     

    #942138
    Jodi
    Participant

    To continue with more of Phil 2

    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    Jesus was made in the likeness of men, which is SIN,

    2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    Jesus walked to his death, he was mocked, spit on, beaten, finding himself in a situation where he is fashioned as a guilty man of sin, and then he was nailed to the cross to die, going through it all for our sake obeying God. If that is not humbling yourself I don’t know what is.

    Jesus was a man and he found himself in the fashion of all men, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, when God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us. He was numbered as if he himself was a transgressor.

    God then exalted him, the Son of Man to his right hand. This Son of Man is returning in the Father’s glory, that glory is God’s Spirit, whereby that Spirit Jesus fulfills the End that God had declared from the beginning, where nothing would have been made that was made in the beginning if not for this man that fulfills God’s will, all things were made by reason of and for him.

    #942139
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi,  good try Sis, , but your words from scriptures frll on deat ears, just as the wouds i quoited did.  Sad…

    Peace and love to you and yours Jodi,……..gene

    #942140
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    Me: From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also,

    while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Berean, according to Jesus above,  THE SON OF MAN, was both in heaven and on earth!

    DO YOU AGREE?

    Yes or No, please.

    #942141
    Berean
    Participant

    Carmel

    HE WAS IN THE HEART OF GOD !

    BUT NOT WITH HIS HUMAN BODY

    But that’s not really the important point…

    THE NAME OF JESUS IN THE BEGINNING IWAS”THE WORD OF GOD”
    BECAUSE GOD CREATE BY HIM ALL THINGS.
    👉 JOHN 1

    🙏

     

     

    #942142
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    I do not fit into your reasoning which ALWAYS results in denying Christ as creator of all things.

    👉 all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.👈

    THIS IS ONE OF ITS ATTRIBUTES
    HE IS OMNIPOTENT

    POWERFUL MY JESUS!

    Isaiah 9:6

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

    🙏

    AMEN!

    #942143
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove,

    I repeat AGAIN:

    You are preaching Jodi, that Jesus

    AT THE RIVER JORDAN WAS

    BORN OF THE SPIRIT/THE HOLY GHOST!

    Read hereunder please:

    Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,

    she was found with child,

    OF THE HOLY GHOST.

    Jodi, JESUS WAS NOT A FETUS in His mother’s womb,

    BUT ALREADY A CHILD, and OF THE HOLY GHOST!

    to make it clear to you:

    JESUS WAS BORN OF THE SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST, IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB.

    NOT AT THE RIVER JORDAN, as you falsely preach. 

    to the next absurdity

    You: made a Son of God filled with grace and truth,

    In the above, you again preached that Jesus at the river Jordan was

    MADE A SON OF GOD!

    Again read the scripture hereunder please:

    Luke 1:31Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great,

    and shall be called the Son of the most High;….       

     35 And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

    and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

     

    Jodi, JESUS WAS BORN THE SON OF GOD.

    NOT MADE A SON OF GOD AT THE RIVER JORDAN AS YOU FALSELY PREACH.

    TO THE NEXT ABSURDITY:

    You: sent out into the world being led in all ways by the Spirit.

     

    John 10:36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and

    sent into the world:

    Thou blasphemest, because I said,

    I am the Son of God? 

    Jodi, in the above JESUS, WAS SENT INTO THE WORLD, NOT AS YOU FALSELY PREACH, THAT HE WAS SENT OUT INTO THE WORLD!

    HE ALSO SAID THAT

    HE IS THE SON OF GOD,

    HE NEVER SAID HE WAS MADE A SON OF GOD, AS YOU FALSELY PREACH.

    John 3:17 For God SENT not his Son INTO THE WORLD,

    to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    IN THE ABOVE, Jodi, JESUS AGAIN MADE IT CLEAR AND SAID THAT  HE WAS SENT INTO THE WORLD, and ALSO THAT

    HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!

    FROM THE VERY BEGINNING John1:1

    More scriptures:

    1 John4:9 By this hath the charity of God appeared towards us,

    because God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world,

    that we may live by him.

    Now to

    John16:I came forth from the Father,

    and am come into the world:

    again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.

    Jodi, THERE’S NO DOUBT AT ALL,

    JESUS CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and

    CAME INTO THE WORLD!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #942145
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Who is the WORD?

    His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Scripture clearly answers this question. Why doubt? Because it doesn’t fit your own understanding?

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