John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 20,541 through 20,560 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #864500
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..”wrong”, It is apsolutely bibical and sound,  what you are saying is what is not bibical,sound nor sound,  nor biblically backed up like, as so many of your other point also. Show us where what I have posted is not bibical, by scriptures not your false assumptions and  belifes, but with  sound scriptures for a change.

    I stand by every word I have written concerning who and what GOD the Father “is” , to all who Call “him” , “their GOD”. 

     

    I believe exactly what Jesus himself said,  ….“that they might know “you” the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, “.  and what scripture “clearly says also, ..unto us the is “ONE” GOD, and “ONE” mediator between GOD and men , the “MAN” Jesus Christ.”. 

    When are you people going to truly start to believe what Jesus himself said, and what is clearly written in scriptures?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

     

    #864502
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU:I’m asking for a scripture that says Jesus is the very heart of God – as you’ve claimed.

    Mike, there are many instances in scripture which purposely,  do not specifically produce with clarity certain TRUTHS. Nevertheless, there are still

    enough scriptures which assert these  vital  HIDDEN TRUTHS and

    THESE ARE LEFT PURPOSELY  HIDDEN FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT RELY  ON THEIR OWN

    CARNAL MINDED WISDOM of THE WORLD. MORTAL and CORRUPTED!

    Romans 8:6For the wisdom of the flesh is death: but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. 7Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God. For it is not subject to the law of God: neither can it be. 8And they who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    BUT IN FULL HUMILITY, AS A CHILD TALKING TO HIS FATHER, and

    SINCE THESE TRUTHS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY RELATED TO

    GOD’S OWN PERSONALITY AND CHARACTER, SIMPLY RELY

    ONLY ON GOD HIMSELF TO REVEAL THEM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,

    THE SERVANT OF JESUS CHRIST,

    AND ALWAYS:

    IN RELATION TO THEIR LOVE TO

    OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST, PURPOSELY 

    SENT BY THE FATHER AS

    ONLY THROUGH HIM, THE FATHER HAVE THE PLEASURE.

    TO BE REVEALED!

    Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud; saying: This is my beloved son.

    Hear him.

    James 1:5 But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God who giveth to all men abundantly and upbraideth not.

    And it shall be given him.

    6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive anything of

    the Lord.(JESUS CHRIST)

    8 A double-minded man is inconstant in all his ways.

    LIKE FOR INSTANCE:

    THE REVELATION THAT GOD IN THE BEGINNING John1:1  BEFORE CREATION WAS EVEN COMMENCED, WAS EMBODIED IN

    “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, JESUS CHRIST 

    BOTH AS GOD, and AS MAN, BUT  MANIFESTED AND REVEALED FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, IN HEAVEN, AFTER THE REBEL, 

    JUST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

    TO ALL THOSE WHO REMAINED LOYAL TO HIM.

     

    DO YOU ACCEPT THE ABOVE

    MOST LITERALLY CLEAR SCRIPTURE Mike?

    NEVER MIND WHAT IS HIDDEN!

    John 6:46 Not that ANY MAN hath seen the Father: but HE who is of God,

    HE HATH SEEN the Father.( PRESENT PERFECT TENSE)

    58 This is the bread (PHYSICAL ETERNAL LIFE HUMAN BODY) that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna( ACTUAL MORTAL FOOD) and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.

    59These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.

    60 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said:

    This saying is hard; and who can hear it?

    61But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them:

    Doth this scandalize you?

    62 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up

    where HE WAS BEFORE? (AS MANGOD IN JESUS CHRIST)

    AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL MIKE

    do you accept the above clear pure truth?

    Which according to Jesus HE SHOULD SCANDALIZE HIS DISCIPLES MORE

    THAN TO EAT HIS FLESH? DID HE SCANDALIZE YOU, Mike?

    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth:

    the flesh profiteth nothing. (FOR GOD TO ACHIEVE FLESH SUBSTANCE IS JUST

    A WORD AWAY!

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN! ALL BY HIM, ALL IN HIM, and ALL FOR HIM:

    The WORDS( LITERALLY SPOKEN plural)  that I have spoken to you are SPIRIT (singular)and life.

    NOTICE MIKE

    SPIRIT, not SPIRITS

    A CLESR REFERENCE TO HIMSELF!

     

    The above you could quite say that it is OUT OF CONTEST!

    IN A WAY it is, but it is vitally important to make clear that READING SCRIPTURE IS NOT LIKE

    WHEN YOU READ A PAPERBACK, BOTH WRITTEN AND UNDERSTOOD BY HUMANS’ WISDOM! BUT

    BOTH FULLY WRITTEN AND FULLY UNDERSTOOD BY GOD’S WISDOM

    IN THE TRUTH!

    THE FACT THAT THERE ARE

    THOUSANDS of TYPES OF BELIEFS and through them 

    TRUTH COULD SIMPLY BE

    SCATTERED 

    Mike, I will come back to you in relation to the

    TRUTH THAT JESUS IS

    THE HEART OF GOD! THE SERVANT!

    as it requires a lot of research!

    DOES YOUR HEART SERVES YOU Mike, BY ANY CHANCE!

     DO YOU KNOW THAT SCIENTIFICALLY 

    THE HEART, WHERE

    “THE WORD” Jesus the Son of Man abides (OUR CREATOR)

    BUILDS THE HUMAN BODY, AND REMAINS ATTACHED TO IT

    ETERNAL LIFE

    ACCORDING TO GOD’S HEART

     

    http://www.spirithealonline.com

     

    We may not be able to find the light in our body or our mind, but our heart reveals it readily. The light and wisdom of the body are so obvious to the heart because our body is created from the heart. Physiologically this is scientifically proven. The very first cells that multiply in the womb become the heart and the rest of the body is created from these original primordial cells. Our body is born from the heart, a very special organ that is so vast that the essence of all LOVE is contained within it. Heart wisdom and light permeate the body like the fragrance of a rose, an ineffable perfume that subtly pervades all yet is invisible. You could say that our body is the greatest creation of our heart.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #864507
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    You says that God is not a person

    Bible says that GOD is a divine person

    See Hebrews 1:3

    It is written that the Son is : “…  the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, …”

    THE SON IS THE BRIGHNESS OF THE GLORY OF GOD(the Father), and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON…”

    …the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON …
    Genesis 6

    5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    [6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

    GOD HAS A HEART BECAUSE HE IS A PERSON,  A VERY HOLY PERSON…

    #864508
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Again, your mixing up the “word” God, Which is a discriptor of a relationship, with the “word” LORD, A “PERSON”. 

    YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND IT AS THE “LORD” is,  “the person,” who is our “GOD”,  “which describes our relationship,   with that person.”  Just as Jesus said when he quoted the SHERMA.

    “THE LORD “OUR” GOD” is “ONE” LORD”, …… another words the “LORD ” (YEHWEH  or YEHOVAH ) our GOD, (the “power”,  we lean on and trust in) HE,  is “ONE” LORD,  (YEHWEH,  or YEHOVAH ) “that’s the person”.  get it?

    How many years have you been reading and studing the bible,   and you still don’t understand that yet? It’s no wonder why these posts go nowhere here. Berean if you don’t understand the basic things how can you even begin to understand the more complex things.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    #864509
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……as far as “image” goes, haven’t you ever read that God made “man” in his “image”? , “in the image of GOD made he them, male and female, made he them”. Did you forget that “all” of mankind was made in the “image” of God? 

    Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

    #864510
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    You said this to Berean:

    Berean…..Again, your mixing up the “word” God, Which is a discriptor of a relationship, with the “word” LORD, A “PERSON”.

    YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND IT AS THE “LORD” is,  “the person,” who is our “GOD”,  “which describes our relationship,   with that person.”  Just as Jesus said when he quoted the SHERMA.

    THE LORD “OUR” GOD” is “ONE” LORD”, …… another words the “LORD ” (YEHWEH  or YEHOVAH ) our GOD, (the “power”,  we lean on and trust in) HE,  is “ONE” LORD,  (YEHWEH,  or YEHOVAH ) “that’s the person”.  get it?

    How many years have you been reading and studing the bible,   and you still don’t understand that yet? It’s no wonder why these posts go nowhere here. Berean if you don’t understand the basic things how can you even begin to understand the more complex things.

     

    How about you, Gene,  how many times are you going to incorrectly quote  the schema (not sherma , btw)? You have been shown a number of times. The shema does not have “Lord”or “LORD” at the end. The shema tells us that the LORD is echad which often means one unity like the church is echad, one unity. The LORD is ONE (echad).

    Obviously you can’t teach about something when you don’t even know what it says, can you? Also you ought not correct another member when you are the one needing the correction yourself!

    Do you purposely misrepresent the shema? Every time I see you misrepresenting that, I’m going to point it out to try to help you.

    I will repeat to you what you told Berean but exchange his name for yours:

    How many years have you been reading and studing the bible, and you still don’t understand that yet? It’s no wonder why these posts go nowhere here. Gene, if you don’t understand the basic things how can you even begin to understand the more complex things.

    #864511
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU……you said I quoted the “schema” incorrectly. So let me quote it again exactly as Jesus in Mar 12:29 quoted from Due 6:4.

    Mar 12:29…….” And Jesus answered him,  The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Isreal, The Lord our God is one Lord”.

    Dut 6:4…………“Hear, O Irseal: The LORD our God is one LORD. 

    LORD…..from H1961; yehovah or YEH-HO-VAW,  (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of  God. 

    Do you see the definite artical there (the) that’s the noun, the “person” being mentioned there, which is the LORD. A “single” person.

    OUR…..as belonging to US, including Jesus also. 

    GOD……from H433; GOD’S IN THE “ORDINARY SENSE”; but “specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article ) OF THE “SUPREME God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:- angles, x exceeding, God, (gods) ( – dess, -ly) , x (very great, judges, x mighty. 

    as I have said, the word God, is a descriptor of a relationship, and adjutive describing a relationship with something, a person or thing, anything. Can be a God, to a person, but unto us (true believers),  we only have “one” LORD, who is “OUR’ (true believers) God. 

    So LU, You can try to twist up what is clearly written all you trinitarians want, but I will keep quoting the “Schema” exactly as written and quoted by Jesus . Along with what else he “clearly said, …“that they might know “you” the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD”. 

    ONLY, MEANING “NO OTHER”,  “TRUE”,  GOD.   

    Those who have ears to hear let them hear, all “true believers”, including Jesus,  have only one true God, and he is the LORD, He is our God, all others are false God’s, just that simple, nothing complicated or twisted about it LU.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

     

     

     

     

    #864512
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Back to

    JESUS IS THE HEART OF GOD POST!

    Also in order to understand each other, “I HOPE” I am going to respect your STILE, for a change, AND BE CONCISE!

    APART FROM SCRIPTURES! WE ARE DISCUSSING THE WORD OF GOD, AFTER ALL, NO?

    AND ALSO SUBJECT TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    THE SOURCE OF

    THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM AND OF REVELATION! 

     

    ME:  SCRIPTURE:

    Matthew 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth, (WORDS)

    come forth from the heart,
    and those things defile a man.

    NOT MUCH OF WISDOM MIKE YOU REQUIRE TO PERCEIVE THAT 

    GOD’S WORD (JESUS) COMES FROM HIS HEART!

    YOU: I’m asking for a scripture that says Jesus is the very heart of God – as you’ve claimed.  Even applying your

    inapplicable scriptures,

    ME: Mike WITH EVERY RESPECT: what you CANNOT PERCEIVE WITH YOUR

    CARNAL DEAD MENTALITY, DON’T YOU EVER DESCRIBE IT:

    INAPPLICABLE SCRIPTURES, without justifying yourself by USING SCRIPTURES!

     

    YOU: the best you could claim is that Jesus – as the literal words God spoke – came FROM the heart of God…

    which clearly isn’t the same thing as BEING the heart of God.

    ME: NO AGAIN MIKE, YOU CANNOT PERCEIVE 

    GOD’S WISDOM, SINCE YOU  ARE DOMINATED WITH

    WORLDLY WISDOM! YOU MUST GIVE ROOM THE HOLY SPIRIT

    TO SPEAK AS HE HEARS! GOT IT?

    YOU: And again, that is only if you believe Jesus is literal words God spoke.  Of course he isn’t.

    You know that right? 

    ME: NO MIKE! the same old story, I’m afraid! 

    ITS ALL WRONG FOR YOUR SIDE! I’M AFRAID!

    THUS FROM HERE ONWARDS WE WALK TO REACH CLARITY AND TRUTH, ALWAYS IF

    WE GIVE ROOM THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND YOU KNOW WHAT MIKE?

    HE  SPEAKS NOTHING  OF HIMSELF, BUT OF 

    JESUS CHRIST 

    WHOM HE SERVES WITH PLEASURE

    ME:  I JUST REMEMBERED YOU DON’T LIKE TOO LONG POSTS.

     

    YOU: You post as many words as you like.  But just so you know,

    I only skim quickly (WRONG MIKE, LIKE THAT YOU NEVER GIVE ROOM THE HOLY SPIRIT TO DO HIS WORK,

    YOU MUST CHEW THE WORDS, BEFORE SWALLOWING THEM,) to find

    the first vaguely coherent thing you said that remotely addresses the point I made to you. 

    ME: ONLY ACCORDING TO YOUR CARNAL MENTALITY, WHICH YOU COULD BE RIGHT, IN A WAY, BUT NOT QUITE 

    THE TRUTH 

    I address only that part, and don’t even bother reading the rest.

    ME: POOR MIKE, UNLESS YOU RESPECT OTHERS AS MUCH, AT LEAST AS YOU,

    YOU WILL NEVER DISCOVER BOTH THEIR LIES AND THEIR TRUTH, AND YOU END UP

    STUCK ONLY TO YOUR PRESUMABLE TRUTH, WHICH COULD MOST PROBABLY BE 

    PURE LIES! WITH EVERY RESPECT!

    NOW TO OUR POINT:

    I HAVE TO REFER TO THE BEGINNING OF MY LAST POST, SIMPLY TO END THIS 

    STORY, THAT

    JESUS IS THE HEART OF GOD!

    Here it goes AGAIN:

     ON THE VERY LAST DAY OF THE LORD; JESUS CHRIST!

    THE SERVANT!

    SERVES THE FATHER FOR THE LAST TIME

    AND FURNISHES,

    GIVES TO
    THE FATHER

    HIS, JESUS’ KINGDOM,  by which kingdom

    THE FATHER, SPIRIT,

    EMBODIED IN JESUS CHRIST

    BECOMES

    PRECISELY JESUS CHRIST,

    GOD ALMIGHTY AS JESUS CHRIST

    ACCORDING TO YOU:

    THE SERVANT OF ALL 

    ALL IN ALL!

    ATTENTION Mike for 

    THE GENUINE TRUTH

    IS JESUS CHRIST GOD ALMIGHTY MIKE?

    IS GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS CHRIST MIKE?

    IS THE FATHER IN THE SON and THE SON IN THE FATHER MIKE? WOW, WOW, AND WOW

    IS JESUS THE SON OF MAN 

    THE HEART OF GOD MIKE?

    JUST TO PUT THINGS CLEAR AND IN

    THE TRUTH:

    IN THE BEGINNING, GOD PRONOUNCE HIS FIRST EVER WORD:

    LET THERE BE LIGHT!

    WITHOUT A DOUBT 

    IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME 

    JESUS CAME OUT FROM 

    GOD’S HEART 

    Now back to your OWN WORDS ABOVE MIKE,

    YOU: the best you could claim is that Jesus – as the literal words God spoke –

    came FROM the heart of God…

    which clearly isn’t the same thing as BEING the heart of God.

    ME: NO AGAIN MIKE, YOU CANNOT PERCEIVE 

    GOD’S WISDOM, SINCE YOU  ARE DOMINATED WITH

    WORLDLY WISDOM! YOU MUST GIVE ROOM THE HOLY SPIRIT

    TO SPEAK AS HE HEARS! GOT IT?

    NO, I BELIEVE YOU DON’T

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #864520
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    Would you be interested in how the Shema is sung by the Jews here:

     

    Don’t you see that it is different than you quote? Just substitute Adonai/Lord with YHVH as it is in the original Hebrew.

     

    #864525
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU….NO MATTER, how you “SUBSTITUE” IT,  it still means the “person” who is mentioned their is the ONE (TRUE)  God, for ISREAL. if you say that THE “LORD”,  is ADONIA, or YHVH,  YEHOVAH OR YEHWEH, it still is the (noun) being mentioned there. And that noun is our GOD, even Jesus’ GOD.  The word “our” mentioned there is all inclusive, meaning “all of Isreal” and Jesus by quoting it was including himself also. 

    But , you people  have made OTHER  God’s,   by saying,  the man Jesus is also a GOD,  That is completely against the schema and against what Jesus said , he never once ever sujested he was a God of anykind. 

    You also CONFUSE the two words “adonia” with the word “adoni” they carry different meanings in Hebrew, “adonia” means the Almighty God,  the word “adoni” means a human ruler or Judge or any human person in authority. Both words are nouns, representing persons,   Therefore it says,

    The LORD “adonia” (our Almighty God), said unto my lord “adoni ” ( Jesus Christ, a human ruler”) sit on my right untill I (adonia,  our Almighty God), who’s NAME is YEHWEH /YEHOVAH , “make your enimies your footstool”.  

    Jesus believed and taught that,  saying this, “that they might know “you” the “only” true GOD”. , 

    LU, the question is do you “truly and honestly believe in  what Jesus,  and even what YEHWEH OUR  ONLY TRUE GOD said?   That’s the true question here.  Plainly written scriptures do not need to be manipulated to try to change there meanings and intents. There are so many scriptures that clearly back up the fact that there is “only” one true God , that anyone even with a basic understanding of  the bible should be able to understand that, there is no need to go through a long trail of false “inferences” to make them say what in fact they do not say or even hint at. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

     

     

    #864528
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene, who does “Adonoi ” refer to, the Almighty God or a human ruler?

    #864532
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU….”ADONAI” refers to the ALMIGHTY GOD, a person named YEHWEH,  OR YEHOVAH.   “Adoni” refers to a “human” ruler, like a judge or king or any magristrate, they are both describing a persons and are therefore are , Nouns  , but  different persons, “adonai” is describing the person who is our “Almighty GOD” , while the “adoni” in Psa 110:1…is describing a “human” ruler , Jesus the Christ. If you would have taken the time to notice that the word for LORD are different then the word for lord , and even give different Strongs dictionary meanings for them , one is the national name for GOD,  “YEHWEH” OR YEHOVAH,  while the other is a ruler, big difference in one from the other. 

    That alone should tell you Jesus is not a GOD, not to mention the scripture we keep quoting over and over here.  LU, if you want to believe the man Jesus is your God, if you trust in him as you lean on him and trust in him a you power in life, the your GOD HE IS. But I don’t,  I believe he is my lord “a human ruler and king”, I will always try to obey him as long as he does the will of the Father, my “only” true GOD, and I totally believe my brother Jesus’ GOD also.  I will not rob God the Father,  and pay Jesus,  Jesus never though to rob God to make himself equal with him either, nor will I.  All those who think and worship Jesus their  GOD are “IDOLATERS “. God does not accept “Idolaters ” not now or ever will either. 

    All true believers have but “one” true God”, and He is the God of the Son of man, Jesus the Christ also. Just as it says, unto us there is but “one ” God and one mediator between God and men the “MAN” Jesus Christ.  You can either believe that or not,  your choice, but make that choice on what is written, not on years of false teachings influencing you thoughts. LU it is paramount above all things you come to understand there is “ONLY” ONE TRUE GOD”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

     

    #864537
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    Jesus said, “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.

    The FLESH profits nothing, so why would God “send” His Son down to earth to become flesh to save us, when flesh profits nothing??

    God sent an anointed Son of Man into the world to save that which was lost. Christ came in the flesh JUST AS WAS PROPHESIED, the son of Jesse was Chrio (to anoint) made into the Christos (anointed), and then God sent him giving him commands to do God’s works, not his own works. As was prophesied, the son of Jesse would be called to righteousness where God would direct all his ways, God would hold this man’s hand and keep him for to fulfill God’s word, for him to be for a light delivering captives out of darkness. 

    A man begotten of the Spirit was SENT, just as God’s word had foretold. That Spirit in him, God’s Spirit in him, is that which brings forth life, and as Paul says the Spirit is life because of righteousness. As prophesied the son of Jesse would be called to righteousness, he would be raised up in righteousness where God would direct ALL his ways.

    How is it that we will walk in ALL of God’s ways?

    We will walk in all of God’s ways because we are heirs of God being joint heirs with The Anointed, God is going to put His Spirit ALL IN and CAUSE us to walk in ALL of His ways, just as He has done with Jesus. Jesus is a son of David and is God’s Son ACCORDING TO the Spirit, and Paul says that those who are LED by the Spirit are the Sons of God.

    #864538
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi said

    Jesus said, “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.

    The FLESH profits nothing, so why would God “send” His Son down to earth to become flesh to save us, when flesh profits nothing??

     

    me

    The word was GOD ….

     All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    and the WORD became FLESH

    Revelation 19
    [13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

     

    #864539
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    It is all about the Spirit of YHVH, His Spirit is LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. YHVH gives of His Spirit which the fruit produced “is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance”. Likewise His Spirit gives Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of Him.

    YHVH is to be ALL IN ALL. We are to be JOINT heirs with The Anointed One. When YHVH gives of His Spirit not by measure it CAUSES you to walk in ALL His ways, it is a calling to righteousness, where no sin can be found in you, thus you are worthy of eternal life.

    Our heavenly Father did not forgive us of our sins through sending down God to become flesh temporarily and die for us.

    It is through ONE ANOINTED MAN and his obedience caused by the Spirit that was upon him, that we have been set free from the penalty of our sins, which is death.

    WHY would YHVH forgive ALL the sins of the world because of the “righteousness” of ONE MAN?

    BECAUSE it’s ALL about YHVH’s Spirit that is why.

    BECAUSE YHVH knows that righteousness is through Him giving His Spirit not by measure. All since Adam did not receive the fullness of the Spirit, thus sin and death for all was inevitable, all of course EXCEPT for ONE MORTAL MAN. Jesus was the only mortal man to have received the Spirit in fullness. Jesus was the only mortal man to have been called to righteousness having YHVH direct all his ways.

    YHVH forgives us because of this very fact. We are forgiven because unlike Jesus we did not receive that which he did. We are forgiven because the FLESH profits nothing, the Spirit in Jesus is unto us the TRUTH of the works of YHVH’s Spirit, it causes obedience, it causes righteousness and brings forth thus eternal life.

    Does JOINT HEIRS not mean anything to you people? Paul’s words that those who are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God? Paul’s words that the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God? Paul’s word that God is to be ALL IN mean anything? Ezekiel’s word of God that He is going to give us of His Spirit and CAUSE us to walk in ALL His ways mean anything? The fact that the son of David was anointed with YHVH’s Spirit, just as was foretold, means everything. Jesus is our mediator to God because Jesus is proof of the works of God’s anointing Spirit.

    Jesus as God’s messenger said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

    Eternal life is to know the only true God, and believe in the power of His Spirit. We see that power because God sent a man into the world that was anointed with it.  Believing in Jesus Christ is believing in the Spirit that is in him, that he is an heir of God’s Spirit having it dwell within for all eternity, and we are promised to be JOINT HEIRS with Jesus, being also an heir of God’s Spirit.

     

    #864540
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    Very clear, 

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    Jesus is a HUMAN who has been anointed with God’s Spirit, he is the firstfruits, human who has God ALL IN.

    Jesus is NOT God made completely clear in this verse, he is a human who is subject to God, he is a servant to God, and a righteous one at that, because the Spirit of God is ALL IN him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    The image of God’s Son is an image of a man who has the Spirit of God ALL IN him, a man who is an heir of God being an heir of His Spirit. The image of the Son of Man Jesus, the Anointed of the Spirit, lives in the image of God. God had said from the beginning that He made man in His own image, God made humans to be heirs of His anointing Spirit, for Him to be ALL IN ALL, as such is how we dwell in His image.

    We are conformed to the image of God’s Son, because we too are heirs of God, joint heirs with Jesus, as he dwells in God’s image we are promised to likewise. We will be born of the Spirit in fullness where it is to dwell ALL IN us for all eternity.

    The Spirit that is IN Jesus causing him to walk in all of God’s ways, is promised to be given to us.

    #864541
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jesus served his “head” and we are to do likewise and follow our head in the same manner. The head of man is Christ. If we do well, we ultimately serve both the Father and the Son.

    #864543
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    You said: ”ADONAI” refers to the ALMIGHTY GOD, a person named YEHWEH, OR YEHOVAH.

    In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name by which he shall be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

    Who is called “Yahweh our righteousness” here, Gene?

    #864545
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: The FLESH profits nothing, so why would God “send” His Son down to earth to become flesh to save us, when flesh profits nothing??

     

    so why would God “send”

    His Son (SPIRIT) down to earth 

    to become flesh

    to save us,

     DON’T TELL ME THAT YOU CANNOT SEE THIS TRUTH Jodi!

    Humans in flesh dies because of their SIN!

    JESUS DIED NOT BECAUSE HE SINNED BUT  SIMPLY BECAUSE

    HE HAD THE POWER TO DIE!

    John10:18 No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself.

    And I have power to lay it down:

    and I have power to take it up again.

    This commandment have I received of my Father.

    ANSWER:

    Jodi, what kind of power humans have in order to die?

    ANSWER:

    WHAT KIND OF PARTICULAR POWER JESUS HAD IN ORDER TO DIE?

    AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE TRUTH

    YOU WOULD BE AWARE THAT FLESH

    COUNTS FOR NOTHING

    WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK.

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE TO 

    ALL HIS 

    SPIRITUAL WORK EVEN

    DEATH!

    Luke 13:32 And he said to them: Go and tell that fox: Behold,

    I cast out devils and do cures, to-day and to-morrow, and the third day I am consummated.

    BY WHICH DEATH HE SAVED HUMANITY!

    BECAUSE OF HIS SPIRIT.

    WHICH AS YOU SAID, AND IN THE SAME TIME 

    YOU DON’T BELIEVE, 

    HE, “THE WORD”

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE,

    EMPTIED HIMSELF  OF HIS SPIRIT   

    BEFORE THE WORLD WAS,

    HE WEAKENED HIMSELF,

    ENRICHED THE ENTIRE CREATION/HUMANITY WITH HIS SPIRIT, AND BECAME 

    LIKE HIS BRETHREN SIMPLY 

    TO GIVE HIS DIVINE FLESH AS A RANSOM IN EXCHANGE 

    FOR THE HUMAN RACE! I repeat ENRICHED by His SPIRIT!

    OK JODI?

    HE GAVE US HIS FLESH BODY. 

    THAT’S WHY HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, HE SIMPLY POURED HIS SPIRIT IN CREATION,

    SEALED,  ETERNAL LIFE John 6:27

    1 Peter1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy

    hath regenerated us (by His spirit)

    unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead: 4Unto an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled and that cannot fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time

    ON HIS RESURRECTION!

    THE MAN BORN AGAIN John3:3

     

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, ON HIS DEATH  GLORIFIED and BECAME 

    ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST, John 13:31,32 IN 

    JESUS CHRIST with a unique POWER EVER!

    GODMAN ON EARTH!

    IJohn5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come. And he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God and may be in his true Son. This is the true God and life eternal.

    BY WHICH POWER HE, GAVE LIFE TO HIS SPIRIT

    Luke 23:46 And Jesus crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. And saying this, he gave up the ghost.

    ORGINALLY SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD,Rev.13:8,  IN ALL SOULS,

    SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN HELL AND ON EARTH, BY WHICH SPIRIT HE RAISED 

    JESUS’DEAD BODY 

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE HIS BRETHREN AUTHENTIC IN HIS FLESH!

    FLESH PURIFIED BY

    HIS SPIRIT! Jodi!

    THEN JESUS CHRIST, 

    GODMAN on the cross, and JESUS RESURRECTED AUTHENTIC IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BECAME

    ONE SUBSTANCE

    GOD OF ALL FLESH 

    ATTENTION Jodi

    SPIRIT AS MUCH AS FLESH!

    Luke 24:39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself. Handle, and see:

    for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,

    as you see me to have. (despite SPIRIT)

    SIMPLY AS FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK!

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE TO ALL

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE IN

    JESUS CHRIST 

    OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER OF ALL

    Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called: 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #864547
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU…..YEHWEH OR YEHOVAH,  IS THE NAME OF ALMIGHTY GOD, not the “man” Jesus, as you people falsely teach. THE “MAN” JESUS IS NOT THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD”,   until you come to completely understand that,  you will not understand the word of God, nor the words of Jesus the anointed either.  LU,  Jodi has just posted an apsolutely “clear”  post, that shows clearly the simple truth, concerning Jesus the man and his and our God, YEHWEH or YEHOVAH.  Read it all and think about it, it is the apsolute truth even if you don’t believe me,  what she has written is apsolutely true and clear for any true believer to understand. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

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