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T8…..ANOTHER POINT, even IN SCRIPTURE JESUS IS PORTRAYED AS A GOAT, THE “ESCAPE GOAT” WHO WAS LEAD OUT INTO THE WILDERNES TO DIE, FOR THE SIN OF PEOPLE. SO GOATS ARE NOT ALWAY BAD IN SCRIPTURES, NOR ARE THEY PORTRAYED AS STUBBORN EITHER. AT LEAST I CAN’T RECALL ANY PLACE WHERE THEY ARE.
So you are defending that idea that you are a goat? Ironically, you say that not all goats are bad and yet contest that not all rocks in scripture are the Father. lol.
When Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my Church” he was talking about what Peter said about who Jesus was. Do you agree now, or are you going to remain stubborn and teach that Jesus was talking about the Father as that rock?
We clearly pointed out what the rock was in that scripture and you argued that because the Old Testament says God is the rock, then that applied to here too. We told you correctly that Jesus built his Church on Peter’s true confession as to the identity of Jesus. We also told you correctly that the Gates of Hell is what is trying to prevail against this rock. Yet you continue to try and overcome this truth and then muddy the water by introducing other arguments to distract from this one.
No good thing can come when you start acting like a stubborn goat. But if you behave like a sheep belonging to the shepherd, then you will hear the shepherd’s words and understand what the shepherd meant when he said “upon this rock I will build my Church”.
I will continue to contest anyone here who brings false teaching.
You came here teaching us that the rock that Jesus built his Church on in the context of the verse was meaning God the Father. When we pointed out it was Peter’s confession which was the pillar of truth that Jesus built his Church on, your argued against us saying that it was God the Father. Your proof was based in Old Testament that says that God is the rock. We correctly pointed out to you that you need to read the context of each scripture because not all rocks are God the Father in scripture and I gave you another unrelated verse to prove the point. i.e, that hearing the words and doing was like a man who built his house on a rock.
Do you retract your teaching about the rock that Jesus built his Church on, or are you still arguing that it still means God the Father and has nothing to do with Peter’s confession? And please realise that the Gates of Hell will not overcome the Church and the foundation that Jesus built her upon. So you might as well concede your argument now rather than trying to prevail against it.
T8……THE ROCK JESUS WAS RELATING TO, WAS THE POWER OF GOD TO GET INTO THE MIND OF A PERSON AND REAVEAL THE TRUTH TO THEM, JUST AS HE DID PETER CONCERNING WHO JESUS WAS, WASEN’T THAT NOT THE QUESTION JESUS ASK HIM? And after PETER responded to him who he was, Did not JESUS SAY TO HIM HE WAS BLESSED BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FLESH AND BLOOD THAT REAVEALED THAT TO HIM?, IT WAS GOD THE FATHER, AND THAT WAS THE ROCK JESUS WAS GOING TO BUILD THE CHURCH ON.
T8, YOU ARE THE ONE NOT GETTING THE CONTEXT OF WHAT JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT, NOT ME.
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Hi DavidL:
You mean doctrines taught by uninspired men like “the Trinity doctrine”, and “Jesus was fully God and fully man”, and “man was born a sinner”.
The revelation by God our Father through the Apostle Peter to humanity is “that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God”, and that is “who is he is”.
If anything is revealed by the Spirit of God, it will be in accordance with Word of God. If it is not in accordance with the Word of God, then it is not God.
When Jesus was in the process of ascending to heaven, he stated that “he was ascending to his Father and God, to our Father and God, and he called his disciples brethren.
Here is the scripture:
John 20:
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi GB,
The problem with trusting your own ideas is that you live in confusion and have to keep making stuff up.
Come back to the Word of God.
Nick……Good point,you should learn to take it yourself, and if you had the spirit of truth in you, you would know if it was my ideas or not, instead OF JUST DRAWING AN “ASUMPTION” without any scriptures to prove me wrong and you right. No one needs your personal slanderous accusitory spirit opinions here. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
T8……THE ROCK JESUS WAS RELATING TO, WAS THE POWER OF GOD TO GET INTO THE MIND OF A PERSON AND REAVEAL THE TRUTH TO THEM, JUST AS HE DID PETER CONCERNING WHO JESUS WAS, WASEN’T THAT NOT THE QUESTION JESUS ASK HIM? And after PETER responded to him who he was, Did not JESUS SAY TO HIM HE WAS BLESSED BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FLESH AND BLOOD THAT REAVEALED THAT TO HIM?, IT WAS GOD THE FATHER, AND THAT WAS THE ROCK JESUS WAS GOING TO BUILD THE CHURCH ON.
No, Jesus responded to his correct answer saying he heard this from God. The point is however, the truth that Peter uttered because the question was “Who do people say I am”? The question and subject was not, “Do you listen to the Father”. Listening to the Father was said to reinforce how important the truth that Peter uttered is.
Obviously, Peter listened to the Father, but the subject is about his answer. That he is the Christ and Son of God.
How important is that truth? Well the Trinity contests it, you seem to contest it here, it was part of the gospel unto salvation, and the reason for the Book of John. We also know it is the Antichrist spirit that contests this truth as it denies the Father and the Son.
John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.1 John 5:10
Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.Acts 8:37
As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.Many are those who try to deny this unconditional truth and Jesus built his Church upon. While you may not deny the truth, you deny that Jesus built his Church on it, thus you demean its importance as the rock that Jesus built his Church upon. There is not much more to add, that is the conclusion. You will continue to deny this, but that is not my problem. It is something for you to work out.
Obviously, Peter listened to the Father, but the subject is about his answer. That he is the Christ and Son of God.
Hi T8,
Yes, that is the rock in which Christ said he would build his Church.
And that is why islam is antichrist, they deny the father and the son.
Antichrist means: both instead of and against. Muhammad’s teachings
are instead of Christ’s teachings and against Christ’s teachings. They say
that Jesus is the Messiah, but Jesus Christ is not their leader, Muhammad is.Messiah means: God’s anointed leader
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made
that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)________________
God bless
Ed JYes Ed J, this simple test of the Antichrist spirit shows how prolific that spirit is. As for Islam, it encompasses one-quarter of the world alone. Then you have many Christians believing that Jesus is God as being the foundation, rather than as the son of God and the messiah. Of course Atheists too deny this truth because they do not even acknowledge that there is a God, thus their can be no son either.
Then of those who confess to believe in the Father and Son, we also have to contend with the likes of Gene who deny that it is the true foundation of the Church. There are also many Believers that do not believe that he came in the flesh. Rather, they say he is the flesh so by reason of that, he didn’t come in the flesh.
We know from scripture that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh.
The rebellious spirit of the world is hard at work.
T8…..IT’S SIMPLY AMAZING ME HOW YOU CAN READ WHAT JESUS SAID TO PETER, and not get it. DID NOT JESUS SAY to him that it was not flesh and blood that reavealed who JESUS WAS TO HIM? It was GOD THE FATHER WHO DID, BECAUSE EVEN JESUS WAS FLESH AND BLOOD, so it was not even Jesus who reavealed who Jesus was to Peter, why can’t you see what JESUS actually was saying. The ROCK THAT JESUS was going to build the church on, was GOD THE FATHERS POWER TO GET INTO THE MIND OF PEOPLE AND REAVEAL WHO JESUS REALLY WAS.
Why do you think Jesus said, “NO MAN “CAN” COME UNTO ME EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW HIM”, GOD THE FATHER DRAWS US TO JESUS by reaveling who Jesus really is IN OUR MINDS . The same as he did to PETER, Why do you think scripture says and “God added to the church, those that were to be saved “. I could go on and on showing it is God the Father who brings us TO JESUS and where he acknowledges that fact saying ,”they were yours, and you gave them to me” and again ” i and them who you have given me”.
Jesus had no problem knowing it is God the Father power, who he would build the church on, and GOD THE FATHER WAS THAT “ROCK” HE WOULD BUILD THE CHURCH ON.
Before you accuse me and others of things that are not true, you need to consider yourself more, you may not know as much as you think you do. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Jesus built his Church on Peter’s confession as to who he was. Peter answered correctly when he said, Jesus is the son of the living God and the messiah. We also know that he is Lord and all will confess this eventually which will glorify God.
We are taught explicitly in scripture that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself and came in the flesh. He remained humble and died on the cross. He is now with the Father in the glory he had with him before the cosmos.
Gene, I know you deny this gospel, but that is truly your problem not mine. You cannot accept it because you have accepted something else in its place and are too stubborn to change. Those who hear the voice of Jesus are his sheep. Goats do not follow the shepherd. They are wild and rebellious in nature. It was the shepherd himself who said he would build his Church on Peter’s confession. He didn’t build it on your confession Gene, so I don’t think anyone will take you seriously with your view here.
T8….AS i have said it simply is amazing how you can ignore what JESUS SAID TO PETER, ” blesed are you Simon Bar-jonna , because flesh and blood did not “reaveal that unto you, but my Father who is in heave, has “reavealed” it unto you”, how can you honestly say you have read that and not understood what JESUS was talking about in reguards to the “ROCK” that he would build the church on? Even in light of the other scriptures i gave yoy showing the same truth.
You accuse me of being a wild goat, but i believe you are the wild goat here not me, not that that makes any difference, if you had the SPIRIT OF TRUTH IN YOU, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING THOSE SCRIPTURES. But instead of understanding them you blert out how i am a goat , and of course you are a sheep, then go on about how PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT JESUS’ prexistence before he came to this earth,without any proof he was. There is hardly anyone here that agrees with JESUS’ PREEXISTENCE so i guess that makes us all goats in your books right? You seem quick to accuse, but slow to understand especially when it disagrees with you. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
To all…..God and his words are one, just as we and our words are one and the same. Jesus was never GOD’S WORD, GOD the Father simply spoke “THROUGH” HIM TO US. Neither was any prophet or angel the word of GOD, God also spoke “THROUGH THEM” to us, and others. God is a SPIRIT and can speak through anyone or any thing he choses to. Even “first person”, as he did through JESUS at times.
It was not Jesus who said “destory this temple and in three days I (God ) shall raise “it” up.”, that was GOD the Father speaking first person “through” Jesus’ mouth. Nor was it Jesus who said, “Jerusalem O Jerusalem, you who kill the prophts, and stone them sent unto you, how often would I (God) have gathered you, even as a hen gathers her chick under her wing, but you would not, therefore your house is left unto you desolate, and you shall not hear from me (GOD) again, untill you say blessed is he that comes in the name of the LORD.”
He that has an ear let him hear.
peace and love to you all and yours……………….gene
T8….AS i have said it simply is amazing how you can ignore what JESUS SAID TO PETER, ” blesed are you Simon Bar-jonna , because flesh and blood did not “reaveal that unto you, but my Father who is in heave, has “reavealed” it unto you”, how can you honestly say you have read that and not understood what JESUS was talking about in reguards to the “ROCK” that he would build the church on? Even in light of the other scriptures i gave yoy showing the same truth.
You missed the point of course. This is true and was said to reinforce the truth that Peter uttered and Jesus built his Church on that.
He is the messiah and the son of the living God.
Can you say that and mean it? Do you believe that Jesus is the son of the living God and the messiah. I have found much of what you believe to be not that much different to Islam, accept of course you do not follow Mohammed. But you seem to follow the teachings that Jesus was just a man, prophet, and messiah.
But is he the son of the living God to you? Jesus built his Church on this truth. If we do not believe that he is the son of the living God, then the antichrist spirit is at work.
Hi t8′
The Word was in the form of God. The Word was God.
Jesus was conceived in Mary.
The Word became flesh and dwelt with men and they beheld the glory of the son of God.
To all…..God and his words are one, just as we and our words are one and the same.
More accurately, I would say that words are power and an expression of us. God created the heavens and earth by his word. Our words have power too and express who we are. We are not the words themselves, but they come from within us. If I say, ‘green hill’. Then I am not that obviously.
Jesus said in Matthew 12:36–37:
“But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned”Notice he said: “by YOUR words”. He didn’t say that we are our words. Our words are like our works. They are an expression of us.
I do not think anyone here agrees with your view that we are our actual words.
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