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Gene, you seem to have something against the Lord of God’s creation, the Word of God, the messiah, and son of God.
You say he is just a man like us.
It is true that he came in the flesh.
But he existed in the form of God, came in the flesh, died for our sins, and is seated at the right-hand of God in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos.
God did not sacrifice a man he created on the spot about 2000 years ago. God sacrificed the one whom he made the cosmos through and for and who came in the flesh. i.e., Jesus, the one the world did not recognise as the one whom God made all things through.
John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.It appears that you do not recognise him either.
T8……BY MAN CAME SIN AND BY THE “MAN” JESUS CHRIST IT WAS PAID FOR, I HAVE “NOTHING” AGAINST JESUS, THE CHRIST who died for my sins, but the world, as well as you, DOES NOT RECONIZE GOD THE FATHER WHO WAS “IN” JESUS RECONCILING THE WORLD CREATED TO “HIMSELF”. What you believe completely DESTORY’S the work of GOD “BEING DONE “IN” THE “MAN” JESUS CHRIST, BY HIS ANOINTING SPIRIT. YOUR BELIFS MAGNIFY JESUS, AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FATHER, JESUS is a man , he said he was around 80 times or so, those ARE NOT my words, But his, and where did i ever say he is “JUST” A MAN. He’s a MAN who GOD THE FATHER USED FOR A SPECIAL PURPOSE, and that purpose was to fulfill GOD THE FATHERS, PLAN FOR ALL HUMANITY to reconcile us back to him. In him is GOD’S purpose for us all, i hardly think that is saying he is “just” a man, he is a man, but a particularly “IMPORTANT” man. In him is all of our destiney, if you can see it. IMO
T8, YOU STILL HAVE NOT COME OUT OF “ALL” THE FALSE TEACHINGS ABOUT JESUS YET. IF YOU CAN’T SEE HIM AS A HUMAN BEING YOU SIMPLY DO NOT SEE HIM, NOR HOW HE RELATES TO US ALL. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
Again, no one is denying that God was in Christ. God can after all be in us too, so this part of your post is moot.
John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.See how you do not recognise Jesus Christ.
If you say the world was not made through him, then you obviously do not recognise him. You are as blind like the world is as to who he is.
Many people in the world believe in a Jesus Christ. Some say he didn’t exist, but of those in the world who believe he did exist, they have varying views. Accroding to some he was a madman, a good man, a muslim, still others say that he was a reincarnated soul, and some say he was a historical figure. The world has many views about him. But he is the one that God made the world through. You do not recognise him as being the agent by which God made the cosmos. That is what John is saying to you.
Why is Jesus the one by whom God redeemed creation? Because he is the very agent by which he made everything, whether thrones, powers, people, or the physical realm.
T8….. IT IS “NOT” A MOOT POINT, The “HE” being mentioned there was GOD THE FATHER, IT WAS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST. Everyone who saw JESUS RECONIZED HIM, THEY DID NOT RECONIZE GO THE FATHER , WHO CAME TO HIS OWN PEOPLE “IN” JESUS,
Tell me this T8, “WHO” do you see actually speaking?, in LUK 13:34 AND Joh 2:10, was it GOD THE FATHER, OR JESUS ? Can you see it was the FATHER SPEAKING THROUGH JESUS’ MOUTH FIRST PERSON?, You or no one else has produced one place IN THE OLD TESTEMENT where there was any ACTUAL activity of JESUS shown in scripture before his berth on this earth.
SCRIPTURE SAYS, God who in times past spoke to us through the prophets, has in these ladder days spoken to us through a SON. SO THIS IS HARDLY A MOOT POINT. That is who they and you do not seem to reconize . IMO
EVEN the apostles did not recognize GOD IN JESUS, that is why he had to keep telling them over and over the Father was “IN” HIM, finally Thomas got it when he said “My lord “AND” MY GOD”. Do you really see that GOD THE FATHER WAS IN CHRIST JESUS? Jesus said if you don’t believe the Father is “in” me then believe in the miricals, he said that because only GOD COULD DO THOSE MIRACLES, and he wanted to RELATE to them how GOD THE FATHER, who was “IN” him was doing those mircales.
What you are doing T8, is robbing GOD AND PAYING JESUS. Like the saying goes rob PETER AND PAY PAUL. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Terricca……..The kingdom of God is not physically setup on this earth yet, that will not happen till Jesus returns with great power, and that is what was being mentioned there in Daniel brother, all the kingdoms of this world and there ties to the past will be desolved at his return. That is the stone that will smite the remittances of beast and completely destory it, brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
to all,
Rock is a symbol and like any other symbol it can be used in multiple instances to mean multiple things. Claiming that because the symbol rock means one thing in one passage means it has to mean the same thing in another passage is flawed reasoning. Scripture is not based on flawed reasoning as Jesus did not lie when he stated Scripture is not broken.
From the context the rock Jesus is speaking of is belief faith that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the living God”.
Matthew 16:15-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
T8….. IT IS “NOT” A MOOT POINT, The “HE” being mentioned there was GOD THE FATHER, IT WAS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST. Everyone who saw JESUS RECONIZED HIM, THEY DID NOT RECONIZE GO THE FATHER , WHO CAME TO HIS OWN PEOPLE “IN” JESUS,
Sorry Gene, regardless of what that verse is saying, no one here has concluded that God was not in Christ. No one said that. You are the one who said it.
It is better to not put words in other people’s mouths as that is a false witness.
We all believe that God was in Christ redeeming the world to himself. I personally have never said otherwise.
This truth renders much of you last posts above as useless within the context of the topic at hand.
I believe you are absolutely correct in your last post kerwin.
Also your last post I believe is also correct Gene.
Wow. Double happy.
Gene
Terricca……..The kingdom of God is not physically setup on this earth yet, that will not happen till Jesus returns with great power, and that is what was being mentioned there in Daniel brother, all the kingdoms of this world and there ties to the past will be desolved at his return. That is the stone that will smite the remittances of beast and completely destory it, brother. IMO
first Jesus receive all the powers from his father before he was lifted up to heaven ;Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Paul also confirm this ;Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.when Jesus return it means that our time and space is over and changes will be coming according to God’s will ,in Daniel 2;44 it talks about a rock that comes from a mountain ;we know the mountain is God mountain ,the rock we know is Christ that came down from the father ,this happen at Jesus conception by the power of God ,when the appointed time came, Jesus present himself to John the Baptist to start the full fulfillment of all the scriptures regarding the Christ /anointed one ,to prove that he was the one that was to come to save the remnant of Israel ,and by this action God set up a kingdom (believers)for himself by destroying all others (non believers),pictured by the statue describe in Daniel ,it says that those king will remain for a while but their destruction will happen(in time) and their powers removed(this as already happen) ,this became all true after Jesus death,what the scriptures did not say is how long would it take from beginning to the end of it all ,but clues were given ,
so the rock in Daniel will not fall at the end for he has fallen in the setup of the kingdom (Da 2:44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.) and as always progressed to the end /to the wrath of God for the unbelievers ,
why is it said IN THE TIME OF THOSE (MEANING ALL OF THEM) FOR SINCE THE BEGINNING ALL FOLLOWING KING ARE TAKING THINGS FROM THE PREVIOUS ONES ,
NOW THIS IS MY QUESTION TO YOU ;WHY IS THIS SAID ;”It(KINGDOM OF GOD) will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end,”
St.Paul declared that rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Christ,and Christ preexisted in many forms but has been reincarnate in these last days as a Son for us.
AndrewAD…….Your getting the christo’s, mixed up with the man Jesus the CHRISTO’S , THE ANOINTING OF GOD WAS IN ALL THE LEADERS OF ISREAL IN THE WILDERNESS AND IT DID FOLLOW THEM. No scripture say that that anointing was JESUS. That is an assumption all have who believe Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.
peace and love to you an yours. ………..gene
The rock is the foundation upon which the church is being built. It is the Word of God that came to us by Jesus Christ and the Apostles that is why the Lord includes the Apostle Peter, when the Father revealed to them that he was the Christ the Son of the Living God, and “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”.
Here is another scripture pertaining to the foundation.
1 Co. 3:
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty……..Right on, the power that builds the church is the power of God the Father to get into the minds of those he calls and reaveal the truth to them, he is the “ROCK”, Jesus was refering to. When he said ” UPON “THIS” ROCK, I SHALL BUILD THE CHURCH AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAL AGAINST IT”.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Dear Gene,
St Paul declared Christ to be the rock and St. Matthew and Jesus declared St. Peter and his declaration of faith to be the rock.The name Peter as you well know means rock.He was no longer that Simon but rather Peter,and Jesus nor Paul called the Father a rock.
As for the preexistence of Christ you must explain away many verses by St.John, St.Paul and others to deny it.I did for awhile think like you do about this through the teachings of Dr.Buzzard and others but imo it doesn’t stand well,while according to many verses in the synoptics it does stand well.
All blessings to thee and thine as well.
Andrew AD, your post is what I would have posted if you had not.
There are a number of instances of the word ‘rock’ in scripture. Saying that they all mean the Father or the son has to be incorrect. Peter was a rock too, albeit more of a stone. Additionally, we are all like rocks being shaped to fit into the building not made by human hands.
Hi AndrewAD:
You say:
St.Paul declared that rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Christ,and Christ preexisted in many forms but has been reincarnate in these last days as a Son for us.
But this is the scripture:
1 Corinthians 10King James Version (KJV)
10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
And so, the scripture does not say that Christ followed them in the desert, but that they which preceded Christ drank of the same spiritual drink that followed them (that is Christ came into existence after they did). The spiritual drink is the “Word of God”. They that were under Moses were given the Law, the Ten Commandments. Jesus stated that he came to fulfill the Law, and obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.
Love in Christ,
MartyT8…….There is only ONE true rock. And that is GOD THE FATHER, the word CHRIST, means anointing, and that anointing is of GOD and was on Moses and the seventy elders of Israel, that anointing was also on THE MAN JESUS, the anointed or messiah of GOD. THE WORD CHRIST does not always mean the man Jesus. That anointing or christos was the holy spirit of GOD. IT FOLLOWED AND LEAD ISRAEL IN THE WILDERNESS, it’s what lead Jesus and it also leads the childern of God. Jesus had a ROCK, and it was not himself, we need to have that same “ROCK” he had. IMO
T8 scripture also say that God is the “only” ROCK. Psa 18:31, Psa 62:2 and 6 ,Deu 32:3-6, 2 Sa 22:32, AND on and on it goes,
pease and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Dear Marty,
Yes Paul does say the Rock that followed them was Christ. He doesn’t say the rock was the law or the ten commandments.
Paul talks about “the law’ quite a bit in his letters as well as Christ and contrasts them in many ways,so why do you try to say he meant the rock that followed them was the law or as you say”the word of God”? If Paul meant the law in this instance he would’ve plainly said so.
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