March 18, 2018 at 10:12 am #821687GeneBalthropParticipant
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Nick….i also believe when Jesus told Peter, “get behing me Satan’ he was not talking to another person there, but was referring to Peters carnel nature.
Jodie to me has some very strong points NICK. I remember long ago saying on here, that Jesus in the wilderness was overcoming his our carnel nature through the holy spirit given him at his baptizm by John .
Perhaps when Jesus said we must all carry our own cross inorder to follow him, he was refering to putting our own carnel natures within us to death, was was his point, and We must use the Spirit of God to accomplish this, as Jesus did.
Jodi and Mick, This is a very good and important subject. I know i am not putting much input yet but i am following you both.
Peace and love to you both and yours…..geneMarch 18, 2018 at 10:32 am #821693
Yes the body has become a sepulchre full of dead men’s bones.
The mind and the heart serve the God of this world.
Only God by His Spirit could fix the problem.
So he sent the Son in the likeness of sinful flesh.
His heart was towards the service of His heavenly Father.
He obeyed the Word, was transformed in the spirit of his human mind,
and overcame sin in the flesh becoming clean and freed from the control of Satan.
And he enabled us to follow him.
Do not be deceived by those who offer a different gospel.March 18, 2018 at 2:08 pm #821695
Eve was created with an ignorant mind, that was also an independent mind having it’s own imagination. She had the choice to trust in God, but she failed.March 18, 2018 at 3:35 pm #821696
Are these ideas of yours based on scripture or just your imagination.?
2cor 11 says she was deceived by the serpent.
So does 1tim 2.March 18, 2018 at 4:01 pm #821697
The letters of Paul and the other apostles were addressed only to those who had obeyed the command to be reborn of water and the Spirit. So it is folly to apply these letters to all mankind as you seem to do speaking of the old man.
The faithful are advised that they have a choice but only one choice is a good one-to let the Spirit lead and teach them. They can produce fruit useful to God only if they are transformed by a renewal of their minds and worship God in their bodily temple.
Or they can continue to be led by their carnal minds, which are enmity to God, and live according to their fleshly lusts. They will be tested by fire, as Jesus was, by Satan but the grace given by God is sufficient.
They can learn to bring their thoughts into submission to the Lord, and to resist Satan so that he flees from them. Only those who become overcomers like the Lord Jesus will become sons of God and inherit the kingdom.
Man is not the enemy, his body, his mind and imagination are not the enemy but these are the territory to be recovered from the god of this world for God as part of our service to Him in Jesus Christ.
The body is of earth and is doomed and unable to inherit the kingdom.March 18, 2018 at 5:33 pm #821698
And Peter warns those in Christ
”Be of sober spirit, be on the alert.
Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering
are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace,
Who called you to His eternal glory in Christ,
will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.”
Outside of Christ all are fair game in need of mercy.March 19, 2018 at 10:31 am #821704
I have said that she was deceived by the serpent, and I have shown through scripture how the serpent was symbolic of the carnal mind.
You say that the serpent was just a vessel and is really represented as an evil supernatural entity correct?
Did the serpent have knowledge of good and evil?…and was punished because it sided with an evil outside influence?March 19, 2018 at 10:50 am #821705
Nick you said, “The prince of this world is allowed to test the brothers in the fires of tribulation. It is necessary for them to go through the fire.
Our God is a consuming fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Zechariah 13:9 This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”
Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious*, and do not obey* the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But* glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Revelations 18:8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
The princes of this world work EVIL and produce EVIL, they create tribulation against other men for evil sake. Princes as well produce the evil temptations of the world. Elites control the world and work to keep men following their carnal minds. God TESTS through cursing and punishment to REFINE those who He knows that by doing so, it will work righteousness. God as well brings tribulation to punish the unjust. God does also allow the princes of the world to bring evil tribulation to others, for a time, eventually God casts them down.
PRINCE Transliterated Word Archon translated as, ruler 22, prince 11, chief 2, magistrate 1, chief ruler 1
The princes of this world are identified as….
Matthew 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again. 20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21 And he said unto her,What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22 But Jesus answered and said,Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them,Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. 24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Princes are the Gentiles who exercise DOMINION
Luke 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
Luke 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
The princes were the MEN who condemned Jesus
Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together* against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Once again the Princes represent MEN of DOMINION that were against God and against His Anointed.
1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory…..14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither* can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The wisdom of the WORLD, the princes of this world were the men that crucified Jesus, they were the NATURAL MAN that did not receive the things of the Spirit of God. The PRINCE of this world is the NATURAL MAN who denies God and feeds his flesh.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
In times past they walked according to the course of this world, had conversations in times past in the lusts of our flesh, and by NATURE children of wrath. 1 Corinthians 2:3 just told us that the princes of this world walk according to the wisdom of man, not according to the craftiness of supernatural entities. There is not a scripture that defines a prince anywhere as being anything other than a human being acting as a NATURAL MAN following his lusts.
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience is the mind of the flesh. The course of the world is ACCORDING to the NATURAL MAN, which makes them children of wrath. If they are children of wrath then their evil father is the NATURAL MAN.
John 12:31 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out..…42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Leviticus 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
Leviticus 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
2 Chronicles 28:3 Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
Nehemiah 1:8 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: 9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.
Here we see men being referred to as being CAST OUT of the uttermost part of HEAVEN.March 19, 2018 at 11:05 am #821706
Nick please answer WHO IS THE DEVIL in Revelation 2 that is going to put men into prison?March 19, 2018 at 11:30 am #821709
Yes you find a lot of allegory in scripture.
That allows you to say that the serpent REPRESENTS something and the devil is SYMBOLIC for something else.
It saves you believing what is written.March 19, 2018 at 12:28 pm #821713
Nick you said, “So by you defining Satan out of the bible you have created millions of human devils. You have made the creation of God evil.”
if by human devils you mean humans who slander (diabolos) then yes we have millions of wicked humans who follow their carnal nature and are at enmity against God.
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
How many people Nick do you think God killed in the flood because He FOUND them to be EVIL because of their OWN IMAGINATIONS?March 19, 2018 at 12:47 pm #821714
I prefer the revelation of God.
Deal with the strong man and the children can tidy up.March 19, 2018 at 4:15 pm #821715
Yes you have shown us your opinion based on your imagination.
The Spirit revealed the plan of God in Rev 2.
Satan is allowed to test the brothers.
Men are his instruments.March 19, 2018 at 4:18 pm #821716
Satan keeps reaping a huge crop.
The road is narrow and few choose it.
But for the grace and mercy of God who would be saved?March 19, 2018 at 4:36 pm #821717
God is sovereign.
He judges as He sees fit.
Satan serves Him but has no future.
His fate is already sealed, but he is still useful.March 19, 2018 at 4:39 pm #821718
Yes the work of Satan in the hearts and minds of men offends our Holy God.
In the new creation he will have a final sifting job to do.
The finished product will all be of GodMarch 19, 2018 at 4:51 pm #821721
Nick what do you allegorize the serpent as? You don’t believe that the adversary, the old serpent in Revelation is a literal snake right?
Wouldn’t you call that being hypocritical?
The devil means slanderer, you allegorize it to mean an evil supernatural entity.
The devil (slanderer) that was to throw followers in Christ into prison is a man. We know for a FACT that it was the emperor that crucified, tortured and threw men into prison. Why would an emperor be so evil? Well the bible tells us repeatedly why, for following his own heart, his own imagination, his carnal mind, because he is BY NATURE a child of wrath. You say Nick that he is wicked called a devil because he is influenced by some supernatural entity who is known as Devil.
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Nick you say that man is drawn away by a supernatural evil entity right? That’s not what James says however. PLEASE EXPLAIN!
So according to you every time man slanders, is a diabolos, he is doing so because he is a vessel to a supernatural entity?..he is not slandering according to his own imagination, as the bible repeatedly says?
Oh look, here we have a human devil! John 6: 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
I say Judas is called a devil because he is a slanderer, a simple connection when you take the fact that Judas is being called a devil and devil means slanderer. We are told that men slander, deceive, are evil according to their own imaginations. This is in fact scriptural.
But you say he is a devil because he is influenced by an evil supernatural entity who is called the Devil, correct?
What is the TRUE name of this slandering supernatural entity, that makes him to be called the devil? Where did this entity come from?
If you think the true name is Satan, saw-tawn, how do you get past the fact that an angel of the LORD is called a saw-tawn as well in Numbers?
Who was David’s saw-tawn that moved him to number his men? David had many adversaries, but I don’t see a single scripture where David talks about an enemy being a supernatural evil entity.March 19, 2018 at 4:53 pm #821722
God writes the definitions.
He says we were made in His image.
If He then chooses to say we are but dust should we argue?March 19, 2018 at 4:53 pm #821723
The REVELATION of GOD is that MEN follow their OWN imaginations and thus become slanderers and therefore are the devil because devil means slanderer! 🙂March 19, 2018 at 4:56 pm #821724
Did you think Satan was a visible being?
Satan has always tested God’s servants.
From Job to David and then Peter.
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