The serpent in the Garden of Eden

This topic contains 563 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 8 months ago.

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  • #819641
     Jodi 
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    Tradition teaches that the serpent in the Garden of Eden is a fallen angels. I believe however that the truth is entirely different! There is much repetitiveness in my argument, this is done on purpose in hopes that what the scriptures are truly saying will sink in.

    Scripture calls men serpents equating that to mean a liar or one who is deceitful. Scripture specifically links all 3 together within a verse, calling a man a serpent because he is lying or deceiving. Scripture also clearly explains what draws a man to lie and to deceive and it is identified as coming from our weak flesh. Even further it is explained by scripture that our weak flesh when it lies or commits other sins is acting like a wild animal following it’s carnal mind or nature. This makes even more sense as to why men would be referred to as serpents. Mankind was given the gift of an imagination. He was also created with ignorance and the desire to seek knowledge and achievement. Scripture speaks of men sinning out of ignorance. Scripture speaks of men lying through their own imaginations! Scripture also identifies men who want to be like the most High, that they want to be like God. We also have throughout history men demanding others to call them and worship them as a god. We see in scripture men have a problem with vanity and in Ecclesiastes man is warned that all is vanity if he thinks his fate is different from the animals. An animal’s fate is to return to the dust so too is man’s. Think about this paragraph and connect it to the sin in the Garden! A lie, a desire to be wise, a desire to be like God, and vain belief against the reality of death.

    Recap
    Man lies through his own imagination and when he does he is called a serpent
    Man desires knowledge and wants to be like God.
    Man in his vanity thinks he can be immortal, that his fate is not like the animals.

    Paul teaches that to be carnally minded is death, and that the carnal mind is at enmity against God. He speaks of the spirit of man against the Spirit of God. He tells us that those in Christ receiving the Spirit of God are no longer receiving the spirit of bondage again to fear. He says Christ crucified the old man that the body of sin might be destroyed. Paul says to the Hebrews that Jesus in his flesh and blood through death he could destroy him that had power over death, the devil (slanderer), and deliver them through fear of death were all their lifetime where subject to bondage.

    Recap
    sin comes from man’s OWN IMAGINATION, his own desires, his own will, and from his ignorance
    man is a wild animal serving his carnal nature producing sin
    man= serpent= slanderer (devil)
    carnal mind= enmity against God
    carnal mind= death
    power of death is held in our carnal minds
    the law gives sin its power
    spirit of bondage= spirit of man living in fear of death
    the carnal mind acts sinfully being persuaded by the fear of death
    Jesus destroyed the old man, the body of sin, the spirit within man that follows carnal nature
    Jesus destroyed him the devil (slanderer) (old man) who had power over death
    Jesus gives us victory over sin and death
    No scripture states that Jesus destroyed the powers of fallen angels

    Jesus abolished death and brought life, the carnal mind brings death, the carnal mind is equated to be a liar by a man following his own spirit, the devil means slanderer not fallen angel. Man is certifiably identified as a liar and a serpent.

    Genesis 3 tells us that the serpent was more crafty than any other beast. Genesis also tells us that man is to rule over the beasts, why? Everyone knows, it’s not up for discussion that man is more intelligent more crafty than any of the animals God created on earth. The serpent in the garden is a liar and he represents man’s imagination, his ignorance, his desire for knowledge, his desire to be like God. The serpent represents the spirit of man, the spirit that follows his carnal nature.
    The punishment given to the serpent is that he will crawl on his belly and lick the dust. This is symbolic representing the reality of death that man is now given, and how he will struggle to stay alive serving his belly.

    Romans 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Philippians 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

    Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly.

    Micah 7:17 They lick dust as a serpent, as fearful things of earth, They tremble from their enclosures, Of Jehovah our God they are afraid, Yea, they are afraid of Thee.

    Clearly the serpent in Genesis represents man’s carnal nature and man’s carnal nature was cursed through the reality of death creating great enmity between the spirit in man and God. We were placed in bondage to carnally serve our belly through the fear of death.

    The serpents seed is our carnal nature and the woman’s seed is that of Jesus. When we rid ourselves from tradition and hear the words throughout scripture and let them soak in, the truth becomes clear, the truth does not create contradiction, the truth gives us a deeper understanding to ourselves, to Christ and what He accomplished, as well as what the Spirit of God is able to do conquer our carnal nature and bring us life and peace.

    I am fully prepared to give a massive amount of scripture!!

    #819667
     Jodi 
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    In Genesis God tells us two times that the imagination of man is wicked, even from youth.

    Scripture tells us that our imagination creates lies.

    God also warns Cain that sin lies at the door and it creates a desire that will RULE over him.

    1 John 3 warns not to go in the way of Cain who belonged to the evil one.

    Jesus says “you are of your father the devil and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a manslayer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth.”

    King David tells us that the human mind and heart is cunning and it plots evil. He repeatedly speaks of man being a deceiver. He says deceit is in the heart of those who devise evil.

    Isaiah asks, “are you not children of the rebellion, offspring of deceit?”

    The book of Acts says, “you are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil.”

    Paul tells the Ephesians, “lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit.

    In Jeremiah it says, “and ye have done worse than your fathers, for behold you walk everyone after the imagination of his evil heart.” “There is no hope, but we will walk after our OWN devises, and we will everyone do the imagination of his evil heart.

    James tells us, “EVERY man is tempted when he is DRAWN away by his OWN lust and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished bringeth forth death.”

    Paul tells us that by ONE man sin entered the world, and through sin death. He says by one man’s offense death reigned by one.

    We are told also in Genesis that all flesh had corrupted their way and God said this occured through man’s own imagination.

    Paul tells us also that Adam was not deceived, Eve was deceived. Paul warns brethren not to be deceived like Eve was through the craftyness that came from the serpent. He warns not to let your mind be corrupted.

    We are told throughout the OT that man corrupts HIMSELF and he corrupts others. In Jude we read, “but these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know NATURALLY, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.”

    In Jeremiah we read that God kicked out the prophets from His House because they prophesied lies from their own imaginations.

    We also read in scripture that when man lies or deceives he is called a specific beast, he is called a SERPENT!

    The serpent in the Garden, the deceiver, the man who transgressed and brought sin into the world and death through sin was Adam. He tricked Eve and waited to see what would happen to her then he partook of the fruit himself.

    The serpent REPRESENTS the carnal nature of Adam and the carnal nature in all men. This is who the devil is! Could it not be laid out more clearly when you follow the word of hundreds of scriptures?  Once this nature was exposed to the reality of death it was bound to serve it’s flesh in order to live, thus creating the enmity between it and God. What happened after the fall? Man, through his own imagination and evil thoughts, corrupted his way to the point that God brought the flood. Finally reconciliation came and it resulted by Jesus destroying the old man. This same old man we are told in Colossians is RESPONSIBLE for lying to others with his deeds. This old man we are told was corrupt by his own deceitful lusts.

    In the bible it is humans who deceive and they do so out of their own imaginations following their own desires from their carnal NATURE. The devil, the slanderer, that holds the power of death is man. This is exactly what the scriptures are telling us. Understanding that the word devil does not mean fallen angel but simply slanderer or one who deceives is key. Understanding that the word angel in the bible means messenger and doesin fact represent humans, as in the case of John the Baptist and the messengers in Jude and 2 Peter, is also key in order to rid traditional false doctrine.

    #821306
     Jodi 
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    I’m bummed no one had a comment in regards to my earlier posts.

    I continue to study and believe that there exists no such thing as fallen angels. Fallen angels equate to false gods.

    Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”

    Deut 30: 19 I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing,

    I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”

    Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”

    Isaiah tells us quite clearly that there is no other supernatural power that can bring calamity and darkness unto man. We know from other scriptures that God ALONE is who we should fear, fearing another super power being is to believe in a false god. Denoting the powers that God says He alone has is to create a false god.

    We see from Deuteronomy 28 just what type of curses God can inflict upon man, including a spirit of madness. We see God inflicted Saul with an unclean spirit and David was able to heal him by playing the harp. Look what happened to Nebuchadnezzer! In the NT we see Jesus healing those inflicted with unclean spirits. What did pagans believe in regards to unclean spirits (demons) during the time of Jesus? Their beliefs mirror that of Christian tradition. But let’s recall that God says that there is NO OTHER that creates darkness.

    God’s angels were given the task to carry out blessings and cursings. Israelites that were being punished called these angels saw-tawn (adversaries). In the book of Job we see an adversary inflicting Job. This adversary presented himself before God and followed God’s commands, and his cursings he placed upon Job worked righteousness in Job. The book attributes Job’s cursings as coming from God. The book of Job is the perfect example of how we see a human referring to one of God’s angels as an adversary phonetically pronounced in Hebrew as saw-tawn. God’s angels were to roam the earth and watch over, the adversary in Job did just that and saw that Job’s spirit needed refinement.

    All throughout the OT we see God giving warning not to take up pagan traditions, beliefs, and practices. We see that time and time again the Israelites failed to obey. The Book of Enoch is pure and simple a work of man’s imagination being influenced by pagan beliefs. At some point God’s angels who brought cursings became identified as fallen angels to SELF RIGHTEOUS men!!

    The Christian creed produced under Constantine by pagan converts was a product of Plato influence, not based on the Hebrew roots founded under the OT. Oh, there were men who disagreed with their doctrine, but they were either exiled or murdered.

    Isiah 14  gives the story of a man who says that he will ascend into heaven he will exalt his throne above the stars of God, that he will be like the Most High. But his fate was that God would cut him down. Here we have a man who in his power has become arrogant and delusional, lol, thinking he could become like God.

    What happened to the man Jesus after he received the power of the Holy Spirit at his baptism? What happened after he went into the wilderness and without food for 40 days having his flesh weakened?… the adversary came to him. Who is this adversary? Tradition would say the leader of the fallen angels, however that is not who Jesus’s adversary was, it was himself and his carnal nature. He was hungry though he refused to use his new powers to make himself food. His new powers tempted his carnal mind, he could take over the world. Yet Jesus refused to follow his carnal nature, he instead overcame the weakness of his flesh, something that no man had been able to fully accomplish. He continued to do so even when he was being hung on the cross.

    We are told that Jesus destroyed the enmity, of which Paul states is our carnal nature. We read in Genesis that God placed enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpent’s seed. How more clear can the identity of the serpent be?!!! It is NOT a fallen angel it is our carnal mind.

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God.

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity….making himself a new man so making peace.

    #821307
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes it is a popular idea to deny Satan, the devil, the dragon, the serpent and the Christadelpians are strong in this.

    Enoch has to be dismissed as a book of fiction but then it is quoted in Jude.

    Perhaps strike that book out too.

     

    Are you not bothered by the roaring lion Peter speaks of?

    #821309
     Jodi 
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    Hey Nick, buddy it’s been awhile!!

    Where do you stand on the book of Enoch?

    Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them.

    I think that Jude and 2 Peter are exposing the falsehood of the Book of Enoch and those well versed in Jeremiah 23 know this even further.

    2 Peter 2:12 and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed — in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil — in their destruction shall be destroyed,

    #821313
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes I get banned every now and again for believing that the Spirit of God enabled the man Jesus to do the works of God.

    Tradition rules here.

     

    But I love Enoch.

    #821314
     Jodi 
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    Who wouldn’t love Enoch! …reminds me of the women who love soap operas, lol!!

    You love it because it is a tantalizing read? or because you think it speaks the truth?

    Who do you identify as being the serpent in the Garden of Eden?

    How do you define the enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpent’s seed?

     

    #821315
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Jude quotes Enoch.

    Yet you try to use Jude to deny Enoch?

     

    A house divided against itself must fall.

    #821316
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Is it useful to discuss the sacred words with someone who holds them in contempt?

    #821317
     Jodi 
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    Wow you have a pretty limited view when it comes to quotation. So automatically if you quote someone that means that you support them? Holy cow that is absurd! So if I were to quote Hitler but then state something against Hitler’s ideas I would still be supportive and backing Hitler according to your logic?

    Both Jude and Peter speak against the ideas of the Book of Enoch. The whole point of quoting Enoch was to show that men have created false teachings according to their imaginations.

    Example of how blasphemous the book of Enoch is,

    Enoch chapter VIII

    And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals (of the earth) and the art of working them …

    Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in cutting stones….

     

    #821318
     Jodi 
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    Nick you said,

    “Yes it is a popular idea to deny Satan, the devil, the dragon, the serpent and the Christadelpians are strong in this.”

    Excuse me but I have not denied saw-tawn, slanderer, dragon, or serpent.

    The SERPENT in the bible is referred to DIRECTLY as MAN when man speaks lies

    Show me a scripture where the SERPENT is called a fallen angel?

    Don’t twist what people clearly present it makes you look like a fool.

    #821319
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    So you are the sole judge of what is to be believed in scripture?

    hmmm

    #821320
     Jodi 
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    Oh my goodness Nick you are something special, lol!!

     

    You are a true waist of time!! You haven’t changed a bit 🙂

    God alone has the supernatural ability to create darkness, calamity and to curse. I am open to hearing someone give scriptural evidence otherwise.

    #821321
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Fallen angel?

    No they are kept in Tartarus.

    #821322
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Enoch is not mentioned in 2Peter or the other verses but you rely on you your own private interpretations and logic.

    It seems you put yourself above the scriptures and the God that wrote them through men?

    Is that the right approach to the holy revelation of God?

     

     

     

    #821323
     Jodi 
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    Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”

    Deut 30: 19 I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing,

    I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”

    Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”

    James 1:14 and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed, 15 afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.

    Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

    1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man EXCEPT THE SPIRIT OF THE MAN which is IN him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

    Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with HIS OWN ways, But a good man will be satisfied from above.

    Proverbs 18:2 A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing HIS OWN heart.

    Proverbs 25:28 Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls.

    Psalms 10:7 His mouth is full of lies and threats; trouble and evil are under his tongue.

    Psalm 58:3 Even from birth, the wicked go astray, from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

    Ephesians 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    Ezekiel 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!

    Hosea 10:13 You have plowed wickedness; You have reaped iniquity. You have eaten the fruit of lies, Because you trusted in your own way, In the multitude of your mighty men.

    Luke 6:45 – `The good man out of the good treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] evil; for out of the abounding of the heart doth his mouth speak

    Odd Nick I don’t see you quoting scripture to back up your beliefs.

     

    #821324
     Jodi 
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    What do the scriptures tell us throughout, and especially Paul?

     

    sin comes from man’s OWN IMAGINATION, his own desires, his own will, and from his ignorance

     

    man is a wild animal serving his carnal nature producing sin

     

    man= serpent= slanderer (devil)

     

    carnal mind= enmity against God

     

    carnal mind= death

     

    power of death is held in our carnal minds

     

    the law gives sin its power

     

    spirit of bondage= spirit of man living in fear of death

     

    the carnal mind acts sinfully being persuaded by the fear of death

     

    Jesus destroyed the old man, the body of sin, the spirit within man that follows carnal nature

     

    Jesus destroyed him the devil (slanderer) (old man)

     

    Jesus gives us victory over sin and death

     

    Nowhere are we told that Jesus destroyed the power of a fallen angel.

    #821325
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes you have sanitised the bible from any satanic influence.

    Man is the enemy.

    Or is he?

    #821326
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    I prefer the simple reading of scripture where man is a weak and ignorant vessel born into likely slavery to the god of this world. Dominated from without and within by more powerful and evil rebellious forces who beguile him into complacency and human warfares. Helpless and hopeless only divine intervention can save him.

    The  work of Jesus Christ was heavily involved in rescuing folk from this imprisonment and it’s physical and mental consequences and offering them instead divine enlightenment and eternal happiness with their true Father.

    But I realise that such will never appeal to the intellect of natural men.

     

    #821327
     Jodi 
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    Jeremiah 23: 9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness…..11 for both prophet and priests are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.   ——-

    God says in HIS HOUSE His messengers sinned, they did not keep their habitation with God but left it to speak lies.

    Jeremiah 23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darknessthey shall be driven on, and fall therein:…..14 they are unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. 

    Jude 1: 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

    2 Peter 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction, 2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of, 3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber. 4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved, 5 and the old world did not spare, but the eighth person, Noah, of righteousness a preacher, did keep, a flood on the world of the impious having brought, 6 and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them];

    Jude and 2 Peter ALIGN with Jeremiah 23, God’s messengers the prophets and priests who sinned were to be punished like Sodom and Gomorrah!!

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