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Can we not keep scripture straight, must people twist and change God’s word?
God promised David that He would take his son and make him into His own Son and it would occur on a certain day, “Today I have begotten you”.
NOT God took an already begotten Son and sent him down to earth and made him into David’s son.
God promised David He was going to MAKE David’s son into His own firstborn.
NOT, God promised David He was going to send down His already existing firstborn, a one and only non flesh son and make him into David’s son.
To ALL,
Acknowledge that God is all knowing and that He did in fact establish a NEW BEGINNING for heaven and earth before heaven and earth was even created.
Then acknowledge that the NEW BEGINNING starts with a human who was raised from the dead (last Adam), the firstborn given eternal life with many to be born after him.
Acknowledge the word of God that says, “Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
The CHRIST meaning the anointed, is the ANOINTED FLESH, not just any flesh but is the fruit of David’s loins. God’s WORD, HIS OATH became true in the FLESH of David’s offspring, it WAS NOT ALLOWED to see DECAY, it was made incorruptible. WHO is The Christ (the anointed), NOT some spirit son becoming a man, it is David’s son having been begotten by God.
THEN when you acknowledge this word of God, go back and read all scriptures that are speaking of Jesus and apply them to be actually speaking of Jesus, the Son of Man, the son of David who God had begotten and made into a firstborn Son, keeping in mind that all is written according to God’s determined purpose He had with Him in the beginning.
Hi Jodi 👋
1. Matt.1:25 KJV And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2. Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
3. Room.8:29 KJV . For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
4. Col.1:15. KJV
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: or born before all creation.
5. Col.1:18 KJV And is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 6. Heb.1:6 KJV And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7. Heb.11:28. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
8. Heb. 12:23 KJV To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
9. Rev.1:5 KJV And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the firstbegotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, firstborn and firstbegotten strongs #4416
Greek: prototokos, using the Englishman’s Greek Concordance of the New Testament, coded with Strong’s numbers by George V. Wigram
Two other passages convey the same idea with slightly different language:
“[The prophets and Moses said] that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.” (Acts 26:23)
In fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (1 Cor. 15:20)
The phrase “firstborn of all creation” is not dealing with time, but status and position. It does not mean that Jesus is the first created thing. It means that Jesus is the one who is preeminent, the most important. We can see this here (4,5.) in Col. 1:15-18, also (6.) in Heb. 1:6 we see preeminent and worshipped. (7.)In Heb. 11:28 we see literal birth, In (8.)Heb.12:23 we see Belonging to God. (9.) In Rev.1:5 we see first resurrection. In (Matt. 1:5) literal birth. In (Luke 2:7) literal birth.
In Col. 1:15-18 Jesus cannot be the first created thing because the Bible says in verse 16 that he created all things. Of course, God is not created so when it is referring to all things being created by Jesus we must conclude that he is divine, God in flesh. Naturally, this would mean that he is the preeminent one.
The term firstborn is a title of preeminence that is also transferable. Please consider the following…
- I have found David My servant. With My holy oil I have anointed him, 21 with whom My hand will be established. My arm also will strengthen him. 22 The enemy will not deceive him, nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 But I shall crush his adversaries before him, and strike those who hate him. 24 My faithfulness and My lovingkindness will be with him, and in My name his horn will be exalted. 25 I shall also set his hand on the sea and his right hand on the rivers. 26 He will cry to Me, “You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.” 27 I also shall make him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth,(Psalm 89:20-27).
David was not the firstborn of his family. In fact, he was the last one born. We can see in this section of Scripture that David is called the firstborn, “the highest of the kings of the earth.” It’s clearly a title of preeminence.
- “And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father’s house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction,” (Genesis 41:51-52)
- Jer. 31:9, ” . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn,“(Jeremiah 31:9).
We can see that the firstborn title was transferred from Manasseh to Ephraim. Clearly, the term “firstborn” does not necessitate the first one created or the first one born. Context always determines meaning, and when the Bible says Jesus is the firstborn of all creation it is talking about his preeminence, his position of authority and superiority over it. Again, we know this is the case because the very next verse in Colossians, v. 16, says that he is the creator of all things. Furthermore, when we combine this with a verse in Isaiah we have something most interesting.
- “Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, ‘I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,'” (Isaiah 44:24).
Since the LORD (YHWH) is the one who formed all things by himself, alone, and we see that Jesus is also the creator of all things, then we must conclude that Jesus is God in flesh, creator of all things. He is the firstborn of all creation. He is not the first created thing.
God bless 🙏 I hope this helps
Hi Anthony,
YOU:
Hi Jodi
You said: the him here is the one who SHED his blood who now sits at God’s right as Paul wrote these words, who thus is the firstborn over all creation, as Paul says directly the firstborn of the dead, the new beginning.
You make out like “over all creation and ” of the dead” are each and the same thing.
My question is: why do you make out like these are synonyms phrases.
ME: God makes all things new, not only is mankind made heavenly with eternal life no longer able to sin, but God changes the animals to where they will no longer be wild.
14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;firstborn Prototokos the firstborn of man or beast.creation Ktisis the act of creating, creation translated as creature or creationThe one who brought us redemption who sits now at God’s right hand having been made perfect given eternal life and is thus the image of the invisible God, he was raised the firstborn into a new beginning, where God creates a new heaven and a new earth filled with peace and beauty, not only will animals no longer be wild, but there will be no more thorns or weeds, the earth will be cleansed of man’s pollution. Jesus is the first to be brought forth by God into this new beginning.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.BECAUSE he is firstborn of the dead in all things he might have the preeminence meaning to be first, hold first place.Jesus doesn’t hold first place over all things because he was the very first thing God had made, it is because he was the first -brought forth from the dead. Why was he brought forth from the dead? Because he had been made perfect, even through his final test of suffering unto his death he did not sin, but followed only God’s will. He didn’t follow God’s will because his previous self was in him, but because God’s Spirit was working in him, keeping him from failing, guiding him to not give into temptation, breaking in him the bondage of the fear of death, just as prophecy told us would happen. What is significant is that Jesus was made perfect through God’s Spirit. We are also promised to be made perfect through God’s Spirit. The new beginning is founded upon what God can create through His Spirit.Anthony, Jesus said he could do nothing of himself, so what use did a former self existing in his current self provide for him then? According to Jesus’s words that would equate to absolutely no use at all. What Jesus had going for him was the Spirit of God descended upon him and resting upon him not being removed, just as Isaiah said would occur.Hi Anthony,
What you posted which I didn’t see before my last post doesn’t make the passage to say that Jesus created heaven and earth.
Firstborn meaning first place, as in rank, or reading firstborn as in being created first, either way you want to understand it doesn’t change WHO the passage is speaking of.
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
What do we know Anthony about the one who shed his blood? Upon shedding his blood he was MADE perfect, we have forgiveness from our sins because he was made perfect. This is WHO is the image of God, why it is Paul calls him that in verse 15. He is the Son of Man sitting at God’s right hand, and as being brought forth (born) first into eternal life, God gave him dominion over all the works of His hands. God made him ruler and judge over all, WHY, because he pre-existed? NO, because he suffered just like we suffered and therefore he can be a righteous judge being able to relate to our infirmities. . This is why Paul tells us after declaring that the perfected Son of Man is the image of God, that he is also firstborn of all creation
15 Who is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of all creation:
16 For in him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:
Don’t change the “him” to not be speaking of the perfect Son of Man, but think according to God’s foreknowledge and determined purpose, which is FACT that He created the world THROUGH such foreknowledge and determined purpose, and in that determined purpose was the Son of Man God would perfect. Acknowledge that in fact the one who sits at God’s right hand given dominion to is indeed a Son of Man made perfect.
A non flesh one of kind son of God didn’t create all things FOR himself.
God didn’t have a non flesh one of a kind son of God create all things so then God could then give to him that which he had created.
God created all things FOR that which He gives it over to, the Son of Man, David’s descendant. And well what do you know that is exactly who the scriptures say did in fact receive it!!
Anthony if you simply believe the Words of God in another passage you can understand the above verses correctly.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!If you yet again CHANGE the him, to not mean the Son of Man, who God was mindful of and visited, then you are LOST.
The Son of Man was made a little lower than the angels (Sons of God), this is just as was promised by God to David where God made David’s son into His own Son, but He made him not in the nature of the angels, as angels are able to die, He made him for the suffering of death. Then He made him, as also promised to David, into His firstborn, giving him dominion over all the works God had made all creatures great and small, this is why Paul said that this Son of Man made perfect who IS the image of God, is also the firstborn of all creation.
What do we learn from David’s words? God created heaven and earth and He did so in order to give a Son of Man dominion over it, not just any man but one who He visited, one who He had made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, so then he could crown him with glory and honor. WHY is he crowned with glory and honor? BECAUSE, “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
Hi Jodi
You surely say a lot. Well IlI’have to get back to you.
IlI’ have to re-read your post. There’s one thing, good about this site, it keeps us in the Word,
God bless 🙏
Hi t8,
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
The message here is that both Jews and Gentiles not only have they all sinned, but they also are ALL justified through the anointed Jesus.
There is no changing of a saying by me.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore*, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Same here, there is absolutely no change by me of Paul’s words. These passages are about what Jesus DID for ALL people because THEY all sinned. Keep in context of WHO Paul is talking about, who it is that Paul’s words apply to.
BOTH passages are about what Jesus DID for ALL, he is not included in the ALL, ALL those who he has given atonement to, ALL those who he has redeemed, THEY all sinned, hence why they needed atonement. Good grief!! Jesus did not sin so he doesn’t need to be of the ALL to receive an atonement now does he? He did not sin so he is not of ALL that need to be redeemed now does he?
Edj…..ALL WHO HAVE BEEN baptized and have recieved the holy spirit from God are anoint-ed, yes.
Peace and love to you and yours …….gene
No Gene,
Some continue to live a sinful life
To Gene,
Are all baptized believers the ANOINT-ED ONE himself or only Jesus? which is it?
LET STAY SIMPLE and not go off in a tangent all over the place .
Peace and love to you and yours ……..Ed JLoose the confusion Jodi
“The Bible” does not say God made everything for Jesus and for Jesus.
SAYING HE MADE EVERYTHING FOR HIM DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONit says *through* as in “by means of”
”By means of” Jesus doing what exactly?I sincerely hope you understand my question
this time, as it is the third time I had to ask Jodi.____________
God bless
Ed JJodi?
Jodi,
You are right there to tell me what I never asked for,
and silent on what I do ask you for???
Why is that, got no answer?
Edj……you mind dosen’t seem to understand , the Greek word DIA, Means “for the purpose of”, not “through” anyone? Jodi and I, have explained that so even a child should be able to understand it. Scripture clearly states God created everything by himself and alone.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Ed J,
I never said that God made all things for Jesus and for Jesus.
I have stated clearly several times that God made everything THROUGH Jesus and FOR Jesus.
When it came to the earth being created JESUS himself did NOTHING, as he did not exist.
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
16 For in him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:
You are changing the him, which is the Son of Man who shed his blood, and speaking of an invention changing the CONTEXT of the passage, saying it is Jesus before he was a Son of Man.
Ed J, simple question for you,
Who is it that God gave dominion over the works of His hands to, of which had been promised by God since ancient of days?
The Son of Man that is who!!
Pslams 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
You want to tell me Ed J when God made the world He didn’t know WHO and WHEN He was going to give the works of His hands over to? That He didn’t create the world through knowing that He was going to give dominion of His works over to the Son of Man, the seed of David who was going to be born of God, made into God’s firstborn, be a savior from the tribe of Judah, be made perfect and become our source for eternal life?
Hi Anthony and t8,
Please show me how it is that your understanding to Colossians 1 fits with Psalm 8?
What about the point that some here teach as a rule that Jesus is never the Christ because the word Jesus on its own in the Bible refers only to a man (without the anointing) like anyone else here.
But scripture says Antichrists will say that Jesus is not the Christ.
We have a match right? This is what some here teach right?
Address this please. Long posts are just a distraction to dance around this and try and divert this question.
Please show me how it is that your understanding to Colossians 1 fits with Psalm 8?
Where have I connected these?
Looks to me like one is talking about God and the other about the son who is from the standpoint of the Old Testament a mystery yet to be revealed.
Remember that the son is God’s Image, showing us the invisible God and as the Word or Logos, he makes God audible to us. When the invisible God wants to communicate with beings, there is no higher authority than the son of God who is called the Word of God. Sometimes God sends an angel or a prophet, but he eventually sent his son into the world. While people paid a price for not listening to prophets, the ultimate price or reward is paid depending on what you do with the son.
Question for Gene. Nick cannot answer this and I am guessing you will not either.
If Jesus was just like you, except he got anointed by the Spirit at the Jordan to become the Christ, Why are you not called Gene the Christ if you too received the very same Holy Spirit?
Remember, you are the one who is always saying Jesus is no different to us. Let’s see your answer.
T8…..Simple Jesus as a “human being” was and is exactly like us, in every way, he had to deal with temptations exactly like we do and sickness, and infermities as well. He had no physical advantages over us, GOD WAS WITH HIM FROM HIS BERTH, and kept him from his berth. As the prayer says, “the LORD bless you and “KEEP” you, the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious unto you, the LORD lift up his countanance upon you and give you peace.
These are things God does for people, when Jesus reached the age of countability, God kept him, from sinning. When he became around thirity he was lead to JOHN the baptist, to be baptized and recieve the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT, as ALL “FOUR” of the gospels clearly show. And after that he had be “ANOINTED” with the HOLY SPIRIT , he was lead out into the wilderness to be tested , for forty days and nights, and then after that he was sent out into the world to PREACH THE GOSPEL of the kingdom of God, and empowered by GOD’S ANOINTING HOLY SPIRIT to do mircales , and heal a kinds of sicknesses, and was given the Words of God to speak to us.
But you say he was born anointed as CHRIST. This is a lie, and this scripture applies to what you as about Jesus.
Luke 21:18….and he said , “take heed that you be not decieved: for many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ: and the time draws near: go you not after them.
Mat. 24:5…. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall decieve “many”.
Mar 13:6…..For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ; and shall decieve “many”.
So T8, Jesus seems to think the deception is about him being called the Christ, we all know JESUS WAS “INDEED” A CHRIST (ANOUNTED) OF GOD, so the deception could be about “when” he became the Christ, as well as about him himself.
I produced all four GOSPELS showing the time of his ANOINTING just before this post. You on the other HAND have produced no ANOINTING SCRIPTURES showing Jesus anointing as a CHRISTO’S OF GOD.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8…..what does this mean to you?
John 14:26. …. “But the Comforter, which is the “Holy Spirit’ whom the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all things and bring things to your remembrance, whatever I have said unto you”
What was Jesus ANOINTED with?, was it not the “Holy Spirit? NOW if he was ANOINTED with the Holy SPIRIT and we are to , how say you, we arn’t Christo’s of God also?
DID I not show you clearly JESUS was anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT of God by all four of the GOSPELS?.
Your false teaching of Jesus being different then we are is simply a Doctrine of “SEPERATION”, directly from Satan himself and his ministers. Your playing right into his hands and don’t even know it, sad for sure.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
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