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No Anthony I didn’t forget it, as you posted that I had been working on a response directly for that.
Anthony Luke 2:11 does not say Jesus was BORN the Christ, it says that on that day was born “a savior, which is Christ the Lord”.
Our savior which is Christ the Lord, was indeed at one time an infant, but he grew up, was anointed, was perfected, and died on the cross for our sins being made into our source for eternal salvation.
The infant was yet a savior, but he was called one at his birth because PROPHECY was given concerning him that he would be a savior, likewise prophecy is given about an anointing of which concerns the infant, as Jesus was in fact after his birth anointed with the Spirit according to prophecy, Jesus directly speaks of it.
Gene:
You: To all……there is no word “being”, a word is intelligent utterance, it is brought forth from the mind. God the Fathers words come from his mind, just as yours do. words are a product of the spirit in a person. RATHER that spirit be of the devil, or of God depends on the SPIRITS PRODUCING THEM.
Me: Half True. God speaks through his Son. His Son is the spokesman or Word. Spokesman is another definition of LOGOS. Christ is the epitome of the words of God. God is invisible spirit (mind) and now reveals himself through Christ.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm
NASB Translation
account (7), account* (1), accounting (2), accounts (2), answer (1), appearance (1), complaint (1), exhortation* (1), have to do (1), instruction (1), length* (1), matter (4), matters (1), message (10), news (3), preaching (1), question (2), reason (2), reasonable (1), remark (1), report (1), said (1), say (1), saying (4), sayings (1), SPEAKER (1), speech (10), statement (18), story (1), talk (1), teaching (2), thing (2), things (1), utterance (2), what he says (1), what* (1), word (179), words (61).You: BUT TO SAY A BEING is an actual WORD, IS NOT TRUE. BEINGS, and the words they speak are one, and the same . You cannot seperate beings from their words. The “LORD” our GOD, and His words are one and THE SAME THING. Jesus is not the word of God, He is the one who speaks “God’s words to us. And therefore God’s mind and will , TO US.
Me: Somewhat true: A being is a mind which is of the spirit. God gives every mind, including himself, a body (1 Cor 15:38). That body includes a spirit a mind with a spirit aspect to it that has communication with God. God maintains all life through this communication.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped (G911) in blood: and his NAME is called The Word (3056: the utterances) of God.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm
3056. logos Definition:
a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) WITH REGARDS TO A PERSON sharing a message (discourse, “communication-speech”). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning “reasoning expressed by words.”]
G 911. baptóa. to dip, dip in, immerse: τί, John 13:26 (but in 26 Lachmann ἐμβάψας, as in 26b L text R G); followed by a genitive of the thing into which the object is dipped (because only a part of it is touched by the act of dipping), Luke 16:24 (cf. ἅπτεσθαι τίνος, λούεσθαι ποταμοιο, Homer, Iliad 5, 6; 6, 508; cf. Buttmann, § 132, 25; (Winers Grammar, § 30, 8. c.)).
Correspondingly:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,…
Me: The Word became one with flesh. It is the Almighty expressed in the visible and audible in the flesh of the man Christ. Christ is the expressed image of God and is God (John 1:1-2, John 14:6-12).
Nick
You: Jesus is called the word of God, because he tells us what GOD is telling him to tell us, JESUS , himself is not the word of God, the LORD OUR GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, was “IN” the “man” Jesus and was speaking through him to us. Just as he was in the prophets before Jesus ever existed.
Me:
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Jesus is not a puppet. He also has a human aspect to the mind in him. This mind is in his Father through the holy spirit, not just his Father’s mind in him.https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/8-5.htm
New American Standard Bible
Psalm 8:5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!Here are the three corresponded verses that relate to each other.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the (holy spirit), whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the spirit (word) of truth, is come, he (it) will guide you into all truth: for he (it) shall not speak of himself (itself); but whatsoever he (it) shall hear, that shall he (it) speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He (it) shall glorify me: for he (it) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:…
Me: How do they relate?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME,…
John 16:3 but whatsoever (the holy spirit) shall hear, that shall (the holy spirit) speak.
Me: The holy spirit hears and reveals what the Father instructs it to speak.John 16:14 The (holy spirit) shall glorify me: for (the holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the (holy spirit), whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME,…
Me: The Father receives the word from the Messiah and sends it to us by the holy spirit.John 15:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him ALL THINGS that himself doeth:…
John 15:14 (The Father) shall glorify me: for (The Father through the holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Me: Our heavenly Father takes from the Son through the holy spirit and shows it to us.John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you
John 5:19…The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him ALL THINGS that himself doeth…Me: All things, here the thoughts of the Father, are the Messiah’s also. The Messiah can do nothing or speak nothing of himself because he and his father are one and the same person.
So here is the scenario. The Father’s thoughts which the Son inherited are his Sons thoughts. The Son’s mind has the humanity of the seed of David in him. So, the Son’s though are his Father’s thoughts. The Father takes from the Son and reveals it to us by his spirit, which is his word. The Son is the Father revealed through his word (John 1:14).
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him…10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Hi Ed J,
You asked,
Can you please explain to me what you mean here: in more term…
How specifically did God created the world through Jesus?ME: Thank you for asking for clarification,
Jesus is the name given to the Son of Man born of the seed of Abraham and David, who God raised up from the dead and gave dominion over the works of His hands to. God created the world through and for this man, the firstborn of the dead, the perfected man with eternal life.
Through means, as in the knowledge of. I know that God is all knowing and that everything is according to His determined purpose.
I guess I could give the same example to you as I gave to t8,
Before my son was even conceived I built a nursery for him, I built that nursery through (foreknowledge that I would bring forth a son) and for my son. Because I said I built the nursery through and for my child, that doesn’t mean my child pre-existed and built the nursery for me. I built the nursery with my own hands, but I would not have built the nursery if I hadn’t known I would have a son, thus I built it through my knowledge that he was going to come, I built it through him and for him.
Noah built the ark, he built it through his knowledge of the flood that was going to come. If I say that Noah built the ark through the flood, that must mean the flood pre-existed and built the ark?…of course not.
Hi TC,
Because Jesus had been anointed at the river sent to preach God’s word, doesn’t mean that he was a puppet. Neither were the prophets before Jesus’s day speaking God’s word were puppets.
What in the world is this???????????
YOU: The Father receives the word from the Messiah and sends it to us by the holy spirit.
Uh NO!!!!!!!!!!
The Messiah receives the word from the Father, as the Father is the Holy Spirit of which He can give to His creation. Messiah means anointed, anointed with the Spirit, receiving God’s word, God’s power.
Hi TC,
Jesus the Son of Man having been anointed with the Spirit of God in fullness with power using that fullness and power to perform God’s will and not his own, is thus seen as being in the form of God. Jesus being the perfected man raised from the dead given eternal life no longer able to be tempted is the image of God, and we are to be made in the same image. No longer the image of the first HUMAN (Adam, a sinner made mortal) but when rising from the dead we will be made into the last HUMAN (Adam, a perfected man made eternal).
Hi TC,
YOU:Psalm 8:5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!
ME: Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
angels — ‘elohiym
- rulers, judges
- divine ones
- angels
- gods
Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
angels — Aggelos, a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
So TC why do you want to assert the translation as being God in Psalm 8 when the apostle Paul quotes the verse using the word angel, as in messenger of God, which is also what most translators of Psalm 8 gives it to mean??
CONTEXT of Psalm 8, how was the SON OF MAN who God was mindful of, who He visited, MADE a little lower than the messengers of God?
The Son of Man was begotten of God, just as was promised to the SEED of David, made a Son of God. How is it that for a time was this Son of Man made a little lower than the angels, who are also known as Sons of God ? Angels to not die according to Jesus’s own words, but Jesus having been born of God’s Spirit made into a Son of God, like the angels, is still able to DIE. This is exactly how it is that the Son of Man was made a little lower than the angels, as he was in fact born of God’s Spirit made a Son like the angels, but unlike the angels he was able to die. When he is crowned with glory and honor upon His resurrection he is given all rule and authority over heaven and earth, he rules over the angels.
Hi Jodi,
You: Because Jesus had been anointed at the river sent to preach God’s word, doesn’t mean that he was a puppet. Neither were the prophets before Jesus’s day speaking God’s word were puppets.
Me: This is what I wrote;
“You: Jesus is called the word of God, because he tells us what GOD is telling him to tell us, JESUS , himself is not the word of God, the LORD OUR GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, was “IN” the “man” Jesus and was speaking through him to us. Just as he was in the prophets before Jesus ever existed.
Me:
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Jesus is not a puppet. He also has a human aspect to the mind in him. This mind is in his Father through the holy spirit, not just his Father’s mind in him.””
What I am stressing is that the communication is two ways, otherwise Christ would be a puppet, which he is not.You: What in the world is this???????????
Me: First cousin to what you sated below: NO!!!!!!!!!!. There was not a way to enlarge “?” so I put it in repetitious form to emphasis.You quoted me “ The Father receives the word from the Messiah and sends it to us by the holy spirit”.
You: Uh NO!!!!!!!!!!
The Messiah receives the word from the Father, as the Father is the Holy Spirit of which He can give to His creation. Messiah means anointed, anointed with the Spirit, receiving God’s word, God’s power.Me: I had just shown you the scriptures above. So YES !!!!!!!!!! The receives the word from the Messiah and gives it to us. Again:
John 16:14 The (holy spirit) shall glorify me: for (the holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-10.htm
Matt 23:10 Neither be called instructors since [the] instructor of you is One the Christ.Me: The Father gives the Messiah the Word of God which he then takes from the Messiah and shows it to us, giving the glory to the Messiah.
John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Me: The word in the OT came directly from the Father and showed it to us. The word that comes to us first goes to his son and then comes to us. He is the NT word of God or just the Word.
Hey Jodi,
Can you patiently wait for my next reply before responding to me? I see you at the bottom of the screen waiting to attack.
Hi TC,
I don’t think I know of anyone who manipulates scripture, twists it, takes it out of context, inventing ideas all the while ignoring other passages, more than you do. It’s astonishing!
You: All things, here the thoughts of the Father, are the Messiah’s also. The Messiah can do nothing or speak nothing of himself because he and his father are one and the same person.
Uh NO!!!
Jesus does nothing of himself as through God’s Spirit he is able to deny his own will, all temptation of the flesh that leads to sin. God’s influence of His Spirit upon a Son of Man when given to a full measure, causes a man to overcome his weak flesh. Jesus is one with God because he received God’s Spirit to the point he could deny all temptation to follow his own will and only follow the will of God to perfection, even willing to overcome man’s great bondage which according to Paul is the fear of death. This is all God wants, it is His determined purpose for His creation of man, to believe in and follow Him, which it takes the gifts of His Spirit in order to do so, not one on his own attempting to be made perfect thinking he of his own self is capable of following God’s laws. Adam was IGNORANT, Jesus, the Son of Man, received the Spirit of wisdom, knowledge, understanding, council and might, he through these gifts of the Spirit was able to become one with God, one with God’s will.
Jodi,
You quoted me:
Psalm 8:5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!You: Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
angels — ‘elohiym
1. rulers, judges
2. divine ones
3. angels
4. gods
Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
angels — Aggelos, a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
So TC why do you want to assert the translation as being God in Psalm 8 when the apostle Paul quotes the verse using the word angel, as in messenger of God, which is also what most translators of Psalm 8 gives it to mean??Me: Wrong as usually.
Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=The+son+of+man&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1Me: “THE Son of man” with the article “the” always refers to the Messiah in the New testament. Click on the above to see.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/8-5.htmPsalm 8:5 (bible hub) You have made him a little lower than God (H430) and you crown him with glory and majesty.
H 430 Strong’s Concordance
elohim: God, god
Original Word: אֱלהִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: elohim
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem’)
Definition: God, god
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
pl. of eloah
Definition
God, god
Me: This is the main definition of Elohim here. Why would the verse say both man and Son of man if it was referring to all men? It could have very well just said “man”.New American Standard Bible
Psalm 8:5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!
Theie are other versions that use the phrase “lower than God”. Click on the link below to see. The translators that translated Psalm 8:5 were Jews that like you and Gene do not believe that Christ is God.You: CONTEXT of Psalm 8, how was the SON OF MAN who God was mindful of, who He visited, MADE a little lower than the messengers of God?
The Son of Man was begotten of God, just as was promised to the SEED of David, made a Son of God. How is it that for a time was this Son of Man made a little lower than the angels, who are also known as Sons of God ? Angels to not die according to Jesus’s own words, but Jesus having been born of God’s Spirit made into a Son of God, like the angels, is still able to DIE. This is exactly how it is that the Son of Man was made a little lower than the angels, as he was in fact born of God’s Spirit made a Son like the angels, but unlike the angels he was able to die. When he is crowned with glory and honor upon His resurrection he is given all rule and authority over heaven and earth, he rules over the angels.Me: You are really out of it and have no idea what you are talking about.
Heb 1:4 Being made SO MUCH BETTER THAN ANGELS, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Me: Heb 1:4-8 contradicts your stupidity that Christ was made like unto angels. The angels are the sons of God not because they were born of God, but because they had no ancestors and was made directly from God, like the first Adam was called a son of God and not his lineage.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Jodi,
You: I don’t think I know of anyone who manipulates scripture, twists it, takes it out of context, inventing ideas all the while ignoring other passages, more than you do. It’s astonishing!! Actually I find it disgusting.
Me: I don’t care what you think, which you don’t seem to know how to do so. You should have stopped at “I don’t think” in the beginning of your above statement. Then this would be a rare truth from you. Actually your above statements testify against you.
You: All things, here the thoughts of the Father, are the Messiah’s also. The Messiah can do nothing or speak nothing of himself because he and his father are one and the same person.
Uh NO!!!Me: Not No but RESOUNDING YES. Here are the scriptures that will probably just bounce off your head like it always does in the past.
John 5:19…The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him ALL THINGS that himself doeth…
Me: Nothing means nothing. All things which the father thinks and does is an infinite amount of things.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him…9… he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; …10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Me: No comprehend? That’s what I figured. The Son is the expressed image of his father and is his father expressed. They are one and the same.
Col 1:15 Who is THE image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
New American Standard Bible
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,Isa 9:6 For unto us a child (the Messiah) is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Me: God and his image are one and the same. He is now the Son of God of the spirit and no longer the son of God of man.
1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.Jodi,
You: Jesus the Son of Man having been anointed with the Spirit of God in fullness with power using that fullness and power to perform God’s will and not his own, is thus seen as being in the form of God. Jesus being the perfected man raised from the dead given eternal life no longer able to be tempted is the image of God, and we are to be made in the same image. No longer the image of the first HUMAN (Adam, a sinner made mortal) but when rising from the dead we will be made into the last HUMAN (Adam, a perfected man made eternal).
Me: You sure have a fetish about man reaming a man. We become sons of God, not remain sons of man. There will be a new heaven and earth of the spiritual realm, and you think man is going to remain a man, even worst, a flesh and bone man. LOL
Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
New American Standard Bible
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”Me: We will no longer have bodies of the flesh.
Basically what some clearly teach here is Jesus is not the Christ. This is the issue with the Ordinary Jesus Brigade doctrine.
TC……SO following and doing what God the Father says makes us puppets? , and Jesus was doing his own thing by his own spirit? I agree with JODI on this, you not even close to understanding the truth on this one.
We ALL RECIEVE FROM “ONE” GOD life and how we should live it, and that includes JESUS.
IT IS THE SPRIT OF GOD, that connects us with the Father, and with Each other including Jesus , not the spirit of Jesus. TC, your still stuck in trinitarian idology , they believe as you do,
HAVEN’T you read what Jesus said, “he could do “nothing” of himself”. That it was the Father who was “IN” HIM DOING THE WORKS”. So in what way was the Father “in” him doing the works?
You keep going to trinitarian sources and it’s screwing you reasonings up. Now your saying we are all “puppets” because we and Jesus follow one God only. No wonder you say the things you do, TC if you start is wrong, go back to the beginning and take another look, you will find you are trapped in trinitarian thought, of making Jesus equal with God the Father.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8…..JESUS is not the anointing , he is the anoint-ed , have you clerified that in your mind yet? If he were the anointing he would have been born that way, and you would be right, he would not need to be anoint-ed again. But as it is you are wrong Jesus was not born as the anointing, but later when he was a full grown man became anoint-ed with the HOLY SPIRIT at the Jordan river, when he was about 30 years old.
Because the words that describe Jesus as Christ are run together so often many see Jesus himself as the anointing spirit, he is not. Most all original texts say Jesus “the” Christo’s or christ. The definet article “the” is nearly always there.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Ed J,
You asked,
Can you please explain to me what you mean here: in more term…
How specifically did God created the world through Jesus?ME: Thank you for asking for clarification,
Jesus is the name given to the Son of Man born of the seed of Abraham and David, who God raised up from the dead and gave dominion over the works of His hands to. God created the world through and for this man, the firstborn of the dead, the perfected man with eternal life.
Through means, as in the knowledge of. I know that God is all knowing and that everything is according to His determined purpose.
I guess I could give the same example to you as I gave to t8,
Before my son was even conceived I built a nursery for him, I built that nursery through (foreknowledge that I would bring forth a son) and for my son. Because I said I built the nursery through and for my child, that doesn’t mean my child pre-existed and built the nursery for me. I built the nursery with my own hands, but I would not have built the nursery if I hadn’t known I would have a son, thus I built it through my knowledge that he was going to come, I built it through him and for him.
Noah built the ark, he built it through his knowledge of the flood that was going to come. If I say that Noah built the ark through the flood, that must mean the flood pre-existed and built the ark?…of course not.
Hi Jodi,
You answered the wrong question again???
I didn’t ask ‘how did God create this world for Jesus’???I asked:
How specifically did God created the world through Jesus?Could you please answer the question I actually asked!
Thank you
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