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T8……Right like Jesus said he was “born” before Abraham. I never seen that written in any scripture. You may quote a scripture as it is written but to say you don’t interpret them to fit your own views is not true. AS I, Jodi, Nick, and others have testified to you. Those who truly have the SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM KNOW THE TRUTH, they are taught of GOD, JUST
AS Jesus SAID, JOHN 6:45…..”II is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of (from) the Father comes to me”.
Look I changed a word of to from, how do I know I am right?, because Jesus said in another place, “no man “CAME” come unto me , except the Father draw him.”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
When God teaches and leads us, he doesn’t draw an opposite conclusion to scripture. Today in the City of David …. He is the Christ and Lord doesn’t suddenly become he is NOT the Christ and Lord as you teach. If the Spirit just taught the opposite meaning, then you wouldn’t need the Spirit to understand the scripture.
Jesus never existed till he was born on this earth by his mother, Mary as a human being,
So you keep saying, but we believe scripture as it is written as long as the translation is faithful to the original.
T8…..WHO said Jesus is not the Lord and the CHRIST, and who ever said he was not “born” to be that? Youŕ misrepresenting what I or NICK AND JODI have said. None of us ever said that.
You believe scripture as long as you can force the text to meet your preconcieved ideas, of a preexistence JESUS. That is exactly what a trinitarians do to.
“Wide is the way that leads to destruction, AND MANY GO IN THREAT THERE OF, but narrow is the gate, straight is the way that leads to life, AND “FEW” THERE BE THAT FIND IT”?
Your belife of a preexisting JESUS is the WIDE WAY, be careful it won’t lead you into destruction like the rest who believe that way.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
T8…..WHO said Jesus is not the Lord and the CHRIST, and who ever said he was not “born” to be that? Youŕ misrepresenting what I or NICK AND JODI have said. None of us ever said that.
Wrong again. First of all I am saying that you deny he was the Christ in the City of David when a holy angel clearly decreed this.
Secondly, to those who believe that Jesus is nothing but a flesh body, then they do not believe Jesus is Christ because they actually believe that Jesus is flesh and only Jesus Christ is Christ. In other words, not until he was actually anointed at the Jordan as they say is when he became Christ and thus Jesus Christ is Christ and Jesus was never Christ. See that? He was called Jesus at his birth and you say he wasn’t the Christ.
Hi t8,
Christ is Christos meaning anointed. Chrio means to anoint.
Scripture tells us that the Spirit descending upon Jesus like a dove was an anointing. Jesus even quotes Isaiah speaking of his anointing and him being SENT out by God AT THAT TIME. Acts 10 says Jesus of Nazareth was also anointed at the river. Upon Jesus being anointed God says, “This is my beloved Son”. People recognized Jesus as the Son of God as the Christ BECAUSE of the sings and miracles he performed AFTER he was anointed at the river, where it is also said that is when he was FULL of the Spirit, being in the POWER of the Spirit. After this anointing it is said that fame spread about him, and that people beheld the glory of Jesus as he was FULL of grace and truth. Isaiah speaks of the Spirit resting upon the offspring of Jesse, and this was the Spirit of Wisdom, the Spirit of Knowledge, the Spirit of Understanding, the Spirit of Council and Might. This is WHY people said that the beheld the GLORY of one FULL of grace and truth.
As previously brought forth to you of which you have ignored, Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. The ANGEL was SPEAKING of PROPHECY, the good tidings he was about to REVEAL in verse 11 is according to the PROMISE God gave Abraham concerning his seed. Through Abraham comes the Messiah, not through a non flesh being comes the Messiah.
Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Galatians 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”…16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Matthew 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham.
The Messiah -the anointed would come FROM a descendant of Abraham,, such is God’s WORD. No prophecy is given where an already existing Son of God of non flesh becomes flesh. God would anoint Abraham’s son making him the Christos and God would make David’s son into His OWN Son by begetting him with His Spirit. God told David concerning David’s son, “This Day have I begotten you”. On the DAY Jesus had the Spirit rest upon Jesus, also said to have been ANOINTED Chrio thus made the Christos, God declares at that MOMENT, “THIS is my Son”. God was speaking to a Son of Man of the seed of David who had just been ANOINTED by the Spirit. God was not speaking to a non flesh son who had become flesh. God was speaking to the son of Abraham, the son of David, declaring that He indeed fulfills His promises spoken by the prophets.
Jesus says himself that he was SENT not by his OWN WILL, but by God’s. Jesus says AFTER his baptism, that God had anointing him and SENT him.
Jesus being sent never applies to a non flesh being choosing to come down to earth and become a man. Jesus being sent applies to Jesus’s OWN words on WHEN he says that he was sent.
The one to be sent out into the world was a PROMISE God gave to Israel and to Abraham, through their seed a savior would come. The angel spoke of the infant as THAT SAVIOR.
Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’ 23 From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as HE PROMISED.
Our Messiah – anointed one, came to us as was PROMISED by God spoken by Isaiah. A ROOT of Jesse,
Isaiah 11: 1 A shoot will come up from the stump OF JESSE; from his ROOTS a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD— 3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; 4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness WILL BE his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, THIS is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.WHO is God’s beloved Son? WHO is God declaring as His Son?? The Son of Man of the seed of Abraham and David,
The Son according to His PROMISE to David and Abraham. The only man begotten of God’s Spirit with the fullness of God’s Spirit and power, who was THEN SENT to preach and to heal, performing signs and miracles.
What you say Jodi doesn’t change a thing.
He emptied himself and came as a man, so yes all the prophecies about this man are correct.
He is now with the Father in the glory he had with him before the cosmos.
JODI……. GOOD JOB, Those who have ears to hear do, those who don’t, just can’t get it, because if they did their whole house of cards would come crashing down on them, Sad.
In this we know the difference between the many going down the wide path in threat of destruction, and the “FEW” , who enter in the narrow gate, and straight way, that leads to life.
Jodi ……Under Recent Topics, I wrote about time dating what written in Rev 17:10 , check it out and tell me what you think sis.
Peace and love to you and yours.
So the narrow gate is made up of people who deny Jesus was the Christ in the City of David?
It gets stranger the more this topic is discussed.
Hi Jodi
Christ is a transliteration of the word ” The Messiah” The Annoited One. When you see Christ you see The Messiah.
This may help:
Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ= (Messiah) the Lord.!
Through Abraham comes the Messiah, not through a non flesh being comes the Messiah.
Why do you guys keep repeating stuff that no one here actually believes. Perhaps understand what people actually believe and teach rather than mistakenly attribute things at best or bear false witness at worse regarding what others believe.
You win nothing by falsely attributing things upon your opponents. In fact you lose if you have to resort to that.
Hi T8,
The glory of Jesus, the Gospel of God, was that before time began on earth God promised eternal life to mankind. Jesus the Son of man RECEIVED this eternal life and BECAME the source for all to have eternal life.
I speak of the glory of Jesus according to God’s promises, God’s Word that He had promised before time on earth that He later revealed to the prophets, that are then spoken by apostles in the NT. You speak of a glory that does not exist in God’s WORD.
Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Acts 2: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
The “him” below is speaking of the son of man, the son of man was made a little lower than the angels. God made “him”, the Son of Man Jesus, to have dominion over the works of thy hands. It is the Son of Man that sits at God’s right hand.
We are TOLD WHY God crowned him with glory and honor, BECAUSE he had been PERFECTED learning obedience going to the cross, He received glory because he could not be held to the penalty of death. His reward and thus his glory is according to criteria God established with mankind, why Isaiah tells us in chapter 53 that he receives a portion with the great, BECAUSE he died for our sins. Jesus having been born a Son of Man, mortal like all the rest lived in fear of death and was tempted to serve the flesh like all the rest. But Jesus overcame that fear, the fear that Paul describes that all mortals have and it holds man in bondage. Through God’s Spirit in Jesus he was able to overcome and serve God and not his own will. His reward, is not based on previous glory he had before the world was, his glory is based upon his PERFECTING of which God created the world through and for that perfecting. Such perfecting was in God’s Word before time on earth began, as God promised eternal life before the world was, and the firstborn from the dead to receive eternal life is Jesus, the son of David, and our source of eternal life is in the man God perfected. You seem t8 to just want to ignore what God says He actually planned from the beginning. God’s glory is that He perfected a human being, Jesus’s glory is that he overcame the bondage that Adam brought all man into.
WHY do we give Jesus glory? Because he pre-existed? No scripture says he earned glory by coming down to earth and became a mortal for awhile, choosing to die for us. Jesus says directly that he was sent NOT of his own will but of God’s. There is no one who chose to empty themselves and become a mortal. Jesus emptied himself of his OWN will, he was sent being led by the Spirit that had descended upon him, and he thus came serving God, not using the powers he was anointed with for his own gain. Jesus didn’t remember his previous glory and was telling God to give it back to him. Jesus was acknowledging his FAITH in God and the glory that God had founded the earth upon, a righteous man, a man perfected on earth, who would be raised from the dead and become the source of eternal salvation for shedding his own blood.
David foresaw the GLORY of his son receiving eternal life. David had FAITH that God’s promise of making David’s son into His own firstborn Son would be fulfilled. There is no promise given by God, NO prophecy that says God would send down an already existing one of a kind non flesh Son that already had eternal life and make him into a mortal human and then give him back eternal life.
David saw the future of God fulfilling His word, that God would be mindful of man, that He would visit a man, and that MAN would be GIVEN dominion over all the works of God’s hands. God told David’s son “This DAY have I begotten thee“. The Son of man becomes God’s son, the Son of Abraham becomes anointed with God’s Spirit on a certain day. That day when God declares, “THIS is my beloved Son”, was the day of the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth.
The glory of Jesus is that he was a man, who through the works of God’s Spirit was the first man to follow God’s will perfectly, and because of that God gave a Son of Man for the first time eternal life.
t8, this was God’s Word from the beginning, “THROUGH the obedience of the ONE MAN the many will be made righteous.” God made the world THROUGH and for this MAN who God had promised He would beget with His Spirit and send, then bring to perfection having him die on the cross, and then raise him from the dead, raising him in power, raising him in glory, raising him a heavenly man incorruptible.
WHY do you suppose t8 that all sins could be reconciled through one man?
Before time began on earth ALL was laid out, the future was given, it would come forth according to God’s Word exactly. One man would bring sin and death and another man would bring righteousness and life.
Jesus demonstrates God’s glory, that God can perfect that which He creates, a man who was designed with greater intelligence than any other creature on earth, able to have his own thoughts and invent his own things, able to learn God’s righteousness through being given gifts of God’s Spirit.
In the beginning God says that He made man in His own image, the second Adam is the image of God, and just as we bare the image of Adam, we come to then bare the image of the second Adam. We too are Sons of God, just as Jesus was not of this world Jesus tells us those also in God’s Spirit are not of this world. Jesus, the second Adam, MADE of the seed of David into our anointed master according to Acts, leads for us the way, where we will be raised from the dead as he was raised from the dead, and we will be made perfect as he is perfect, no longer able to be tempted, freed from bondage of temptation that leads to sin, able to serve God’s will without missing a mark.
Go read Isaiah 7, 11, 61, 53, and DON’T forget 40-42. Stop denying the promises God founded earth upon. Stop applying verses that are speaking specifically of prophecy and instead apply them to a false doctrine. Stop changing passages saying they are not speaking of the mortal Jesus, or the resurrected Jesus and telling us they are speaking of a non flesh son of God.
Seriously, you really think that when the people said that they beheld the glory of Jesus who they called God’s only begotten Son, they were not speaking of Jesus who had been anointed with the full measure of God’s Spirit and power and was performing signs and miracles through that anointing in front of their own eyes? They were instead referring to a NON flesh Son of God who they had never seen? If this non flesh son of God emptied himself what glory would then be in him that the people beheld? You want to refuse to apply Isaiah 11 as the WHY the people said Jesus was full of grace and truth? It is not true to say that Jesus having the Spirit rest upon him, have him be anointed with the Spirit, having him receive the fullness of the Spirit, does not equate to Jesus having been begotten by God, born of the Spirit?
T8……who has said, JESUS IS NOTHING BUT A FLESH BODY? Quite the contary we believe flesh and blood human beings are the very highest of God’s creation, or why would he place “ALL THINGS” under his, mankinds feet?. We human brothers and sisters of JESUS, are right along side with him as Joint heirs with him of “All THINGS”. His very flesh and bone life is EXACTLY what we want to be like, and through the Spirit “anointing” of God the Father we can , obtain to the measure and full stature of the Man Jesus the Anointed .
We Do not “SEPERATE ” Jesus’ likeness to us, that’s what you and the rest of the preexisteners do. We see Jesus as a second Adam, you people see JESUS as somekind of “MORPHED” being, which you have no idea what that being is or was.
We, like, Jesus use the prophised scripture to explain him and who he was and is, like Jodi and Nick so clearly does.
You deny you are of the WIDE WAY THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, But have you ever ask yourself, what you and 90% percent of CHRISTENDOM HAS IN COMMON? most every thing they teach you teach, as proven here over and over.
TO SAY YOU ARE NOT IN LINE WITH MAIN STREAM CHRISTANITY WOULD BE A LIE, your teachings prove it, they believe and teach NEARLY everthing you teach.
DO you believe in a prexistent Jesus, well so do they.
DO You believe he didn’t have to be baptized later in life as all messiah ‘s are, well so do they.
Do you believe he is the one who created everything, well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus no longer has a flesh and bone body, well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus was still alive after he was crucified , well so do they.
DO you believe Jesus raised himself from the grave, well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus “himself” is the word of God well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus actually came from heaven, well so do they.
Do you believe the word of God actually became flesh, well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus existed as a actual living being before Abraham, well so do they.
Do you believe he did not actually come from the root and offspring of King David, well so do they.
Do you believe Jesus thought it not robbery to be “equal” with GOD , well so do they.
Do you “NOT” believe Jesus Was a ordinary human being as we are, who with the Spirit of the living God overcame sin, just as we can, well they don’t either.
So are you in with most of main stream of Christianity, yes you certanily are IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Jodi. Your post speaks a lot about glory but neglects to point out that he emptied himself and is in the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos. If your theology has no room for this then it is wrong.
No one here denies that as a man he learned obedience, fulfilled God’s will as a man, and was the prophecied one to come
You need to encompass all scriptures about him to truly learn about him. Cherry picking the verses that can comply with your view is not entirely honest and accusing me and others or inferring that we do not believe these other scriptures you quote is also not honest. We believe them, at least I do.
I have zero problems with the scriptures you quote and zero problems with the ones I quote alot. It seems though that both you and Gene have serious problems with the scriptures I quote and even the mere quoting of them word for word invokes a serious reaction from you guys which is a worry.
Truth ticks all the boxes not just some of them.
You deny you are of the WIDE WAY THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, But have you ever ask yourself, what you and 90% percent of CHRISTENDOM HAS IN COMMON? most every thing they teach you teach, as proven here over and over.
That wisdom is flawed. Atheists deny Christdendom right and Christdendom accepts that Jesus is the Christ.
Further, there are plenty of things that I strongly disagree with regarding Catholicism and other main line doctrines.
Your arguments keep missing the mark Gene.
If anyone here wants truth, they have to be honest at all times and not resort to dishonesty to try and win an argument. When the temptation arises to put your opponent down using a red herring then stop and realise God knows what is in our heart.
T8……JESUS was not talking about atheists, he was talking about people who are preaching him.
Jesus said, “For “many” shall come in my name saying that “I AM”, AND decieve many”. So it’s those who are professing JESUS that are the many decievers. But it’s a different Jesus they are preaching, that’s decieving the many.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Good Morning t8,
Seems as if you didn’t really read my post at all.
Your understanding is empty my understanding matches perfectly with God’s WORD that He spoke before time on earth began. You are the one cherry picking. Taking verses out of context solely to fit your doctrine.
Do you suppose when Jesus quoted Isaiah he was unaware of this passage by Isaiah t8?
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
You don’t think t8 that Jesus knew of the words God promised him through his father David?
Psalms 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 89: 27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Acts 2: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Or how about this passage, was Jesus when speaking to God in John 17, was he in full ignorance to these words from the prophet Isaiah below?
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. ..4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Jesus wasn’t speaking t8 of the glory God PROMISED to David concerning him, where his flesh would not be allowed to see corruption but eternal life, and God would crown him with glory and honor making him a King of Kings over David’s throne?
Jesus wasn’t speaking t8 of the glory God PROMISED to David concerning Jesus, where God would make him into His firstborn son, the firstborn of the dead?
Jesus was not speaking of his glory he was to receive because he was fulfilling Isaiah 53?
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
John 6: 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
God’s promise before the world began was to send out into the world an anointed man, who would be perfected through dying on the cross, and bring eternal life.
You really think t8 that when God promised eternal life before the world began the plan of the Son of Man, the root of Jesse who God would visit giving him His Spirit, calling him to righteousness and perfecting him and sacrificing him for the sake of our sins, didn’t actually exist in the beginning with God? That the plan for this Son of Man coming from Abraham and David didn’t exist with God before the world was? WHO IS YOUR God t8? There is no word of God that says He would save Israel and all nations through a non flesh one of a kind being becoming a mortal for awhile. God saves Israel and all nations of people through a Son of Man that He anoints and then sends out into the world. What is directly told would come to the people is the root of Jesse being anointed and then sent out. This was in God’s Word before time on earth began, it was spoken by the prophets, then was spoken by Jesus himself, and then the apostles.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
According to Isaiah God gave the root of Jesse upon and anointing WORK to do. It is not written that God gave a non flesh one of a kind son work to do by sending him down to be a man and then do the work of God.
According to Paul, God’s Word from the beginning, “THROUGH the obedience of the ONE MAN the many will be made righteous.”
The glory that Jesus receives is because he is THAT MAN. Jesus KNEW God’s WORD that He had promised concerning him, before the world was. Jesus was speaking to God having FAITH that God’s promises that God founded the earth upon was true. Jesus was speaking to God believing that he was in fact David’s son who would die but whose flesh would not see decay, but instead be raised to eternal life.
Jesus was asking to receive the same glory that is promised to us all that God planned to give us through the firstborn of the dead, eternal life.
Jesus is asking to receive the glory that he knew of when he said, “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Taking John 17:5 and not apply it to direct scriptures speaking of God’s promises, not applying it to Jesus’s own words, not applying it in the context given in the prior verse speaking of eternal life, but instead taking it out of it’s context and applying it to a man made doctrine, is the definition of blindness and cherry picking.
verse 3:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
WHO is Jesus the Christos who had been Chrio that we are to KNOW, he is of the seed of David, the Son of Man, he is NOT a non flesh one of a kind being. Who is the Son of God that we are to KNOW? The seed of David a Son of God according to the Spirit of Holiness.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
You say Jesus is a Son of God t8 because he pre-existed as a Son, but scripture tells us he is a Son because he had been given/anointed with God’s Spirit. He is an eternal Son because God raised this Son of Man from the dead and sat him at His right hand.
You say Jesus is not asking to receive the glory he spoke of when he said the Son of Man will give you eternal life, nor when he said he as the Son of Man was going to sit at God’s right hand and return in among the clouds. According to you that is all to be ignored it seems and not applied, and instead the glory of Jesus has nothing to to with him being a Son of Man and what that man is to receive, it is about former glory that he once had as a non flesh being. This is all vanity, just pure empty words.
Isaiah says that God would not give his glory to another, speaking of a human anointed with God’s Spirit called into righteousness. There is only one firstborn of the dead given supremacy overall of creation BECAUSE of a perfecting that led to our salvation. There was no glory existing in a non flesh one of a kind son before the world was. The world was founded upon the glory God had established in the beginning and REVEALED to Isaiah.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Mathew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
There exists no glory of a non flesh one of a kind being t8, that empties himself and then receives back his glory he had before. Scripture says that JESUS born on earth anointed at the river with the fullness of God’s Spirit and power submitted his own will to God’s will. Jesus said that seeing him was seeing God because God was in him, as God had placed His Spirit upon him. Though Jesus had God’s powers he made himself of no reputation, he gave all the glory to God. You cherry pick pulling scripture changing the word of God and who that word is speaking about. Jesus is the name given to a Son of Man, when scripture says it is speaking about Jesus it is speaking of that Son of Man as a Son of Man.
The GLORY that was in the beginning with God, it was God’s WORD that Jesus knew, that he himself spoke of was that of a Son of Man being given eternal life and the crown to the Kingdom of God of which would be David’s throne. On that throne Jesus, among his brethren is before all, he is lord of lords, and king of kings. David, Abraham, and John the Baptist knew of their salvation that would come through Jesus of Nazareth, before them Jesus the anointed receives eternal life, and being before Abraham, David, and John the Baptist, as firstborn of the dead, he has the inheritance of a firstborn Son given all rule and authority.
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