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Hi Gene,
You have devised your own dogmas using scripture but they are not of the truth.
Reverse your approach. Let scripture teach you.
TC…..You make Jesus as himself out to be the anointing spirit he recieved. Jesus was an ordinary human being who himself recieved the anointing from God the Father at the Jordan river, and then became a “spiritual” son of God. Then the word who is God came to dwell in him, and spoke to us through the man Jesus. Just as he did the prophets. Jesus plainly said he could do “nothing” of himself, that it was the Father that was in him doing the works.
Me: Tell me, can you do nothing of yourself? Can anyone do nothing of himself? Do we sin? The Messiah could do nothing of himself because the Word is God and was in him and was his spirit mind. The humanity of Christ from the seed of David was completely bonded as one and grew through the holy spirit in that bond. God and his Word are the same one person that was in the human Christ. The spirit mind in Christ is the Word and is God expressed.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 that they all MAY BE one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also MAY BE one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Gene:
You: I have no problem with the concept of GOD THE FATHER BEING “IN” JESUS, THAT’S A GIVEN TO ME. What bothers me is when people take what the Father was doing “in” Jesus and make it out to be what Jesus himself was doing. When people do that they shift the glory from the Father to Jesus. When GOD SAID HE GIVES HIS GLORY TO NO MAN. Jesus never did that only false teachers do that.
Me: Really! Same Chapter.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was...22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Me: This has to be the Word glorified as God with God. So, only God is glorified? The Word is God expressed and is God (John 1:1). There is one person here. We are addressing the Word in Christ, not the whole Christ with his human element.
Gene:
You: You say “Christ” is the temple of God, wrong JESUS’ BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF GOD, the same applies to us,
1 Cor 6:19….What know you not that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT which is “in” you, which you have of God, and you are not your own.Me: Look at the context please.
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-19.htm
body
σῶμα (sōma)
Noun – Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong’s Greek 4983: Body, flesh; the body of the Church. From sozo; the body, used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively.1 Cor 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 15 Know ye not that your (body, not bodies) are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
This building was not the work of man made with hands, thus not the work of conception. This building is the church with Christ as its cornerstone.1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God (God and his church), him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Peter 2: 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
New American Standard Bible
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
Me: God’s word is not restricted to one use only. This verse could pertain to Christ, the individual Christians if he dies in good stead, or the whole church as it seems to indicate here in 1 Cor 6:19.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 22 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.Me: God together with his church (Christ the chief cornerstone) are the temple of God. The temple is of inside the building and of the outside of the building. The temple of God is not our vile bodies with sin and death in them.
Gene:
You: You say Jesus “is” the word, as if he really was God’s word, which then would make him God, but scripture says “he is called” that is a title aforded him, because he speaks the Fathers words to us, but none of that makes Jesus himself the word of God. God and his words are one and the same, just as you and your words are.
Me:
Young’s Literal Translation
Young’s Literal Translation
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (3056), and the Word (spokesman) was with God, and the Word was God;https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm
3056. logos
Definition: lógos (from 3004 /légō, “speaking to a conclusion”) – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos (“word”) is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.
[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) with regards to a person sharing a message (discourse, “communication-speech”). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning “reasoning expressed by words.”]Me: The Word or expressed image of God is the spokesman for the invisible God and is God. Words are seeds from the tree of God (Christ, the Word).
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Gene:
You:
You also take the book of revelations which is highely symbolic, to be literal. The souls under the alter is symbolic language. A SOUL IS A BODY WITH THE BREATH OF LIFE IN IT. According to Genesis 2:7 when the body dies that living soul, no longer exists. As many scriptures say. Without a physical resurection back to life, there exists no living soul.
When we die our “only” Our hope is in the resurection, that as Paul says will witness the redemption of out BODIES.Me: More bull, not of the spirit but of your hot air. Click on the link below: then click on 5315 above “being”.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-7.htmNAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
NASB Translation
any (1), anyone (2), anyone* (1), appetite (7), being (1), beings (3), body (1), breath (1), corpse (2), creature (6), creatures (3), dead (1), dead person (2), deadly (1), death (1), defenseless* (1), desire (12), desire* (2), discontented* (1), endure* (1), feelings (1), fierce* (2), greedy* (1), heart (5), heart’s (2), herself (12), Himself (4), himself (19), human (1), human being (1), hunger (1), life (146), life* (1), lifeblood* (2), lives (34), living creature (1), longing* (1), man (4), man’s (1), men* (2), mind (2), Myself (3), myself (2), number (1), ones (1), others (1), ourselves (3), own (1), passion* (1), people (2), people* (1), perfume* (1), person (68), person* (1), persons (19), slave (1), some (1), soul (238), soul’s (1), souls (12), strength (1), themselves (6), thirst (1), throat (2), will (1), wish (1), wishes (1), yourself (11), yourselves (13).Definition basically means inner self. Or it can mean the whole self. Soul is one definition of 5315: nephesh. Soul is not one definition of soul, it is the definion of nephesh. The English word for soul is spirit. Spirit is one definition of nephesh.
Now for the NT and the scripture in question.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-9.htm
Click on the link above: Then click on souls. Next click on 5590 above “souls”.of uncertain origin
Definition
breath, the soul
NASB Translation
heart (2), heartily (1), life (36), lives (7), mind (1), minds (1), person (1), persons (3), soul (33), souls (14), suspense* (1), thing (1).Me: The definition is basically the same as for the Hebrew word nephesh. The English word for soul is once again spirit. We know that it cannot mean the whole individual here in Revelation 6:9 because the body is the last to resurrect at Christ’s coming. So it must mean the inner self. You can put an infinite amount of inner selves under the altar because they are spirit without for m or matter. The question is what the symbols mean, not if the souls are there in heaven. They are distinguish from those on earth (verse 10).
Read the below for a good understanding of what the symbols mean.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-6/revelation-6-9.htmlHi Anthony:
What you said what I believe and have said is bogus.
Heart and mind.
For true Christians:
Holy spirit is in the mind
Holy spirit is in the heart
Heart is in the mind
Thus, the holy spirit is in Christians’ hearts and minds.Holy spirit versus soul spirit
Saints
We die to our human hearts or “flesh”.
God gives us the human heart from Christ (phil 2:5, Ezk 36:26)
We must die to our human hearts (flesh) if we are to have a new heart of “flesh”. We die to our human spirits if we are to have the holy spirit in its stead. We die to our human bodies if we are to have a holy celestial body (1Cor 15:35-40).Christ died of his humanity, that is Christ died of his human mind, heart, and body. The Word in him is his spirit mind and heart. It is God in him. These did not die. The Word in Christ resurrected his human mind, heart, and body from the dead (John 2:19-21, John 11:25). The Word in him is God expressed in him. The human aspect of the temple is his human heart, mind, and body.
Those who endure to the end die only of their human bodies after Pentecost. If the mind follows the holy spirit; it is one of minds of the holy spirit with the human heart of Christ in them. If it follows the flesh, it is the mind of flesh and forgoes the mind of the holy spirit if it extinguishes it. Then they are of the general resurrection (John 5:28-29).
Breath of life is a term relating to the human spirit of life. It is not the holy spirit. Adam died of his spirit mind when he did eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. This is the tree of death. It is opposite of the tree of life. It has the heart of the devil in it permanently. It is in our flesh figuratively and physically. Christ came to destroy the works of the devil.
Hi TC,
A fine philosophy.
But your dead are not from scripture but your own mind.
Find a better and more stable foundation.
Living souls are not spirits, they simply are bodies with the breath of life in them, any animal is a living soul if he is alive , he is a dead soul.same applies to all mankind. Adding to what genesis says a living soul is, Gen 2:7 is simply altering the text. Spirits can be added to living sould, but is not what makes a soul at all. When the flesh with the breath of life “in” dies it (the soul) no longer exists as a living being. Spirits are nothing like Souls, they can inhabit living souls. Spirits come from one source and that source is God who created everything. Both good and evil spirits, scripture says the soul that sinneth “IT” SHALL DIE, ALL HAVE DIED SENCE ADAM AND EVE BECAUSE ALL HAVE SINNED.
THOSE who think a spirit of them exists after death are wrong. We are not spirits of amykind, “HOWEVER”, spirits can “INHABBIT” US, EVEN THE SPIRIT OF GOD, But that is not a SOUL OF ANYKIND, But a spirit dwelling “in” us who are living Souls. SPIRITS ARE NOT PART OF LIVING SOULS OF ANYKIND, they only inhabit souls, and when a sould dies the spirits dwelling in that dead soul go back to God who created them. This whole idea of a living spirit which is the real man is completely false and has no scriptural support. TC show one scripture that say a spirit is a living Soul, I would really like to see that. All men would like to continue living after death as a living being, but no such thing exists in scriptures. It is apsolutely crucial we attain to the resurection of our SOULS to continue to live.
TC, ALL THIS STUFF MAKING A MAN INTO A LIVING SPIRIT HIMSELF IS SIMPLY “MYSTERY RELIGION” practiced by pagan cultures. But is not scriptural, were not spirits and never were. According to scripture. The change from physical beings to spirit being is all pagan concepts and teachings that decieve people into thinking they are still alive after they die. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
1thess 5.23 and Heb 4.12 show that the spirit and soul are separate from the body.
You base your teachings on deception.
Hi all
Paul speaks of man as being body ,soul and spirit. Paul also says that man sins in body, soul and spirit. Jesus would have to have died to all three parts of man, body ,soul and spirit. Which He did. If He didn’t there be no Atonement for man’s sins, there be no Salvation. I can’t believe in any of that, Immortal of the soul spirit mind. There nothing that goes back to God other than the breath of God.His Spirit that doesn’t sin. God bless.
Nick….yes the word of God is powerful even to the diviing asunder or, (seperating) the soul , of (the living being, from the spirit, that dwell in that living Soul, and the the dividing of the joints and marrow, of the living soul, and is a discerned of the thoughts and intents of the heart (of that living soul ).
Thats the proper way of understanding that text Nick, no where is it saying there that the spirit is any part of a living SOUL , itself. Spirits just dwell in LIVING BODIES, THEY ARE SEPERABLE FROM SOULS, AND CAN LEAVE THEM OR INTER THEM.
Scripture said there is a spirit “in” man, but no where does it say spirits are a part of man who is a living SOUL . Spirit only effect the state of existence of the mans “mind”, which is part of his living soul.
We all must be resurected back to life with a body in order to be a living soul again. after we die our soul corrupts in the grave and we cease to exist and remain that way untill the resurection. , had Jesus not been resurected with his body he would still be dead to this very day, therefore “our hope is in the resurection which will wittness the REDEMPTION of our BODIES”, just as the apostle Paul said. Rom 8:23,
Read it Nick and let it sink in brother, those are not my words.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Living souls are not spirits, they simply are bodies with the breath of life in them, any animal is a living soul if he is alive , he is a dead soul.same applies to all mankind. Adding to what genesis says a living soul is, Gen 2:7 is simply altering the text. Spirits can be added to living sould, but is not what makes a soul at all. When the flesh with the breath of life “in” dies it (the soul) no longer exists as a living being. Spirits are nothing like Souls, they can inhabit living souls. Spirits come from one source and that source is God who created everything. Both good and evil spirits, scripture says the soul that sinneth “IT” SHALL DIE, ALL HAVE DIED SENCE ADAM AND EVE BECAUSE ALL HAVE SINNED.
Me: No Gene, man became a living nephesh. One of the defintions of nephesh is soul which is an English word basically meaning spirit or immaterial essence. It can secondarily mean being.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul
Me: spirit is one definition of nephesh. The whole person is another. But it couldn’t be whole person in Rev 6:9 because they have no bodies yet at that point.
The same goes with the greek word psuché :heart (2), heartily (1), life (36), lives (7), mind (1), minds (1), person (1), persons (3), soul (33), souls (14), suspense* (1), thing (1).
A mind is a spirit because the mind has a spirit in it and they are intertwined.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: Who and what did God prepare a body for?
It was the Word who is in the express image of God which is spirit (and mind).
Young’s Literal Translation
1 Cor 15:45 so also it hath been written, ‘The first man Adam became a living creature,’ the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Me: “Life” here means eternal life. The first Adam did not have eternal life, he died without eating of the tree of life.
Gene:
You: THOSE who think a spirit of them exists after death are wrong. We are not spirits of Any kind, “HOWEVER”, spirits can “INHABBIT” US, EVEN THE SPIRIT OF GOD, But that is not a SOUL OF ANYKIND, But a spirit dwelling “in” us who are living Souls. SPIRITS ARE NOT PART OF LIVING SOULS OF ANYKIND, they only inhabit souls, and when a soul dies the spirits dwelling in that dead soul go back to God who created them.
Nope:
Eccl 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21...and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Me: This includes the spirit of the natural man.
21...Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,
1Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (holy spirit) shall return unto God who gave it.
Me: The holy spirit goes back to God who gave it. If we are baptized of the holy spirit, our spirits and minds go back with it (Rev 6:9).
This whole idea of a living spirit which is the real man is completely false and has no scriptural support. TC show one scripture that say a spirit is a living Soul, I would really like to see that. All men would like to continue living after death as a living being, but no such thing exists in scriptures. It is apsolutely crucial we attain to the resurection of our SOULS to continue to live.
Me: I just did here and in my above posts. I did not say that Genesis 2:7 says man became a living spirit. A living being would be the appropriate definition here. I did not say ever that men have immortal souls. I always said that the only spirit in the end is the holy spirit (Eph 4:4). I even quoted Eccl 3:21 many times. Man is like a beast without the spirit of God in him.
Eccl 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast (the human spirit included) that goeth downward to the earth?Nick: “Indeed the Spirit of Christ is from eternity. The Word that was with God in the beginning was made flesh at the Jordan and dwelt among us.”
I’m sorry, but the word “spirit” does not appear in that verse. You may be comfortable adding to the Word but I wouldn’t advise it.
Gene:
You: TC, ALL THIS STUFF MAKING A MAN INTO A LIVING SPIRIT HIMSELF IS SIMPLY “MYSTERY RELIGION” practiced by pagan cultures. But is not scriptural, were not spirits and never were. According to scripture. The change from physical beings to spirit being is all pagan concepts and teachings that decieve people into thinking they are still alive after they die. IMO.
Me: Yes, that is your opinion alright…and not a very good one. We are firstly and lastly spirits. Our bodies are our clothing. You have not provide scriptures to the contrary, neither have you shown me anything about what I believe is pagan from anywhere.
Rev 6:11 And white robes (2 Cor 5:2-3 below: bodies) were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
Me: Our spirits are clothed with new bodies. All men are appointed once to die. But we never die spiritually (John 11:So,
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: We, who are spirits, never die spiritually, only physical if we follow the protocol of eternal life.
I do not believe in your dogma makes me a Babylonian. Think again.
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