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Terrarica,
It is clear that those “who does evil hates the light” and so their name has not been written in the book of life. Their motivation is clear to God and their actions follow from their motivation. As I have pointed out earlier free will is not random will. It is predictable by he that know the motives of the heart.
Kerwin
you seem to surrender to the devil,
we have choices ,and we have the will to make those choices ;what make us to pick one over the other depend on we see things and how our heart that we molded perceives what we see ,hear,and want ,
never the needs ;
so your view seem wrong ,
even a man can predict the way you walk if he has knowledge of your weakness of the heart ;get serious; how do you think the world of business works so good ,they even put the ideas in your own heart ;but it is your choice nevertheless ,you just let it happen
Terrarica,
It definitely appears to be name as it also states.
Revelation 3:5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
This certainly seems to disagree with the wording chosen by the NET version of Revelation 13:8. It may mean that there are those whose names have never been written in there and those that were written but were later blotted out.
The wording of the NET is equivalent to that of the AV of the KJV.
Revelation 3:5New English Translation (NET Bible)
5 The one who conquers will be dressed like them in white clothing, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, but will declare his name before my Father and before his angels.
There are other passages that speak about the book so they can be considered.
Ed,
I think you have a libertarian idea of free will and the idea of being able to foretell the future does not fit with it well. I disagree with the libertarian idea of free will because 1) random will is not free will and 2) Jesus teaches us our choices come from our heart. God knows what we will choose because he knows us and our free choice comes from us.
Never the less, if Revelations 13:8 is speaking of the new creation then I see where you are coming from.
Kerwin
1)God establish first how we can be saved right ? yes
2) then it is up to us to either follow it or not right ? YES
now #1= to the group ;got it ?
now # 2 = the personal name ;got it ?
so if we want our name be written in the book of life ;then we must do and obey all the requirment that are attached to it if not our name will not be in the book of life ;got it ?
Hi Ed’
Jesus had no role in creation.
But Jesus Christ did -by the principle of
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever”
Terrarica,
1)God establish first how we can be saved right ? yes
He planned for the coming of the Christ.
He did not establish what doing right is but he he did provide a way for us to do so.A person must choose whether to do right or wrong even though God knows beforehand which one they choose.
Right is right because it is right and for no other reason. Like God it just is and has always been. After all it is one of his characteristics.
But let us say that wrote a pattern in a book and those that followed the pattern will be saved. Would the word “those whose names are written in the book” embody the idea of a person following the pattern that is written in the book.
In order to be true “name” would have to have a different meaning than in Revelation 3:5 and that meaning would be mean the same as characteristics. That may not even work because of the word “whose” but I cannot say one way or another for now.
N
the scriptures don’t say the truth about Jesus the son of God ;
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.I will just quote these scriptures for now but it is clear that it contradict all you just said in your quote ;
so you are out of the truth of God ;
Kerwin
He planned for the coming of the Christ.
He did not establish what doing right is but he he did provide a way for us to do so.A person must choose whether to do right or wrong even though God knows beforehand which one they choose.
Right is right because it is right and for no other reason. Like God it just is and has always been. After all it is one of his characteristics.
But let us say that wrote a pattern in a book and those that followed the pattern will be saved. Would the word “those whose names are written in the book” embody the idea of a person following the pattern that is written in the book.
In order to be true “name” would have to have a different meaning than in Revelation 3:5 and that meaning would be mean the same as characteristics. That may not even work because of the word “whose” but I cannot say one way or another for now.
==============================================================================first God made and give the LAW ;that would establish what is good and bad or to do and not to do ,
the Law should have made them learn that they cannot be saved for the sins they’ve committed due to their lack of understanding but when Jesus the son of God came then the redemption his also with him ,but there’s also a way to get saved
if God put the names in the book before the person is even born this would mean what ? that we have to do nothing for all the cards have been said and dealt with and that we cannot change anything at all ,
look Jesus never said that Judas Iscariot was the one ; but it is his kind that will be not following the truth for his heart was not for the truth but who is in control of the heart ? not God the man himself for we as man we build our own way either to hell or to heaven so to speak ,
PS 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
And may they not be recorded with the righteousREV 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
this means that the book records those that are worthy of life since the beginning of the world (after the sin of Adam )
REV 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
WHY YOU THINK SOME WERE NEVER PUT IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ?
Nick,
That is a biased translation does not fit the pattern of the multiple other times it is translated.
It could be translated a number of different ways including Jesus, himself, today, yesterday, and always.
Another that could fit the pattern is:
Jesus, the same is yesterday, today, and forever.
The only version that follows that pattern of the use of autos is the Aramaic Bible in Plain Ebglish, which is translate from Koine Greek. I have no idea why the rest deviate from the pattern they use consistently in other verses.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua The Messiah; He is yesterday, today and forever.Even going by the common translation “yesterday” merely means before today.
Nick,
It is plausible that the writer of Hebrews is trying to make the point that Jesus is the same past prophecy, present witness, and future prophecy or is maybe “he” is claim Jesus has not changed from the time he was conceived and will not change in the future.
Personally, I am suspicious of Trinitarian bias, which attempt to translate some passage to better support their idea that Jesus is God. After all God does not change.
As a rule I attempt to live with whatever the translation is and interpret it according to the truth.
You use mysticism as well because mysticism fits some passages.
Terrarica,
first God made and give the LAW ;that would establish what is good and bad or to do and not to do ,
God continuously lives the law for not only does he not sin but he cannot be tempted by evil. That means has always existed or he could not always live it.
God continuous enumerates the Law but that is not the same as making it. That sounds what you are speaking about.
You are talking of humanity but I am talking about God’s righteousness. Humanities is but a reflection of God for it is commanded be righteous as he is righteous.
Terrarica,
if God put the names in the book before the person is even born this would mean what ? that we have to do nothing for all the cards have been said and dealt with and that we cannot change anything at all ,
It means that that we will freely choose from our heart the path that is righteous.
If we foreknew our fate perhaps we could change it but we are not given that foreknowledge and the truth is hidden from those are perishing.
I am not sure they would come out into the light even then for demons don’t even though they know their fate.
Kerwin
you forgot one thing justice ;we all have the free choice to do what we have set out in our heart ;so no you are wrong on this one
for it is our will that comes in to play in doing good or bad ;love goodness and righteousness or love wickedness
Terrarica,
I can tell that you are having trouble with what I am saying because it is alien to that which you believe. You are saying much the same thing I am as if it disagrees with what I said. Free will does not contradict God’s foreknowledge.
His foreknowledge is like you looking as the past and see what you chose. In short is has nothing to do with what you chose. The two are separate.
Kerwin
ho ,i see well in that case i don’t care for it does not do me any good or bad for i don’t know it anyway ,
but i know God knows the outcome of it all for only his will be done ,
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