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Hi Jodi and Gene
What do these scriptures mean to you
The LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of US, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever'” Genesis 3:22 (NKJ).
“Man has become like one of US.” To whom is the LORD talking?
Again in Genesis 11:7, God is discussing His solution to the whole earth having one language at the time of the Tower of Babel:
“Come, let US go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” Genesis 11:7 (NKJ).
The fact that the LORD (Yahweh) refers to Himself in these passages as “Us,” is indeed a hint to the plurality of God.
We do know that everything was created by the Word, (Jesus Christ), so He was before the Angels, it’s obvious that He was speaking to His Son.
God bless
Hi Jodi and Gene
The word used for God in Genesis 1:1 is “Elohim,” which is a form of the word “El.” In the context of Genesis 1:1, there can certainly be no doubt as to who is doing the creating. In the Hebrew language the “im” ending imputes plurality. Therefore, “Elohim” is the plural from the word “El.”
It is interesting to note that each usage of this word throughout the Bible is grammatically incorrect. It is a plural noun used with singular verbs. According to Genesis 1:1, the Creator of the Universe, Elohim, exists as a plural being.
The Father God created all things through His Son God.
God bless
Hi Jodi and Gene
Scriptures that help.
Gen. 1:26-27. Then Elohim said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”(earth)
27 So Elohim created man in his own image, in the image of Elohim he created them;male and female he created them.Elohim is the pural form of El or Eloah.
Isaiah 54:4-5. Do not be afraid;you will not be put to shame.Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated.
You will forget the shame of your youthand remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.
5 For your Maker is your husband the Yahweh Almighty is his name the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;
he is called the Elohim of all the earth. Verse 5 reads in the Hebrew “Makers” a plural and shows two beings at creation. Both are our Husbands. Yahweh in the Hebrew.Ecclesiastes 12:1. Remember your Creator
in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come and the year approach when you will say,“I find no pleasure in them”—Creator in the Hebrew says Creators, them speaking of the creators.
Deuteronomy 6:4 The Great Shema. Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
In the Hebrew it reads. Hear, O Israel, YAHWEH our Elohim is YAHWEH echad.
The Hebrew root means, unify or to called together,and, United One. YAHWEH United, If the intention of the verse was to show there was only one YHWH the Hebrew Word used would have been “yachid”. See: Gen. 22:12 and it wouldn’t make sense to state there is only Yahweh.
I’ll close with Hebrews 1:1-9
In the past Elohim spoketo our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s gloryand the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,“You are my Son;Today I have become your Father”? or again,“I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ? 6 And again, when Elohim brings his firstborn into the world, he says,“Let all the angels worship him.”7 In speaking of the angels he says,“He makes his angels spirits,and his servants flames of fire.” 8 But about the Son he says,“Your throne, O Elohim, will last for ever and ever;a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore Yahwah, your Elohim, has set you above your companions anointing you with the oil of joy.”
God bless 🙏
Anthony….again you are posting only part of the scripture, let’s quote it all, ok?
Gen 3:22….And the LORD God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. That was the “only” thing God was talking about nothing more, as you falsely believe.
What makes you think only a God came knows about good and evil? That scripture have nothing to do with the LORD our GOD being a plural form of expression. But it does show that Adam a flesh man, by eating of the tree of life could live forever.
Where do you people come up with all these speculations from, even in the face of scriptures clearly written that shows it differently. Do you people just ignore scriptures you choose, to come up with you dogmas ?
Jodi and I have both posted many apsolute clear written scriptures and you people haven’t even touched on answering them.
Anthony the word God is a (uni-plural ) word , it is a relative term, it show a relationship with anything . That is why we say “our” God. The word God does not mean a person, it means a relationship with something, even a non person, like an Idol of somekind made of iron, rock, wood, or what ever. We are commanded by “our” God “you shall have “no” other God besides me, nor make no ‘image’ of him in heaven above or earth beneath. what part of that commandment you people don’t understand?
The original pictorial Hebrew word for God, was drawn as a OX head representing (power) with a Shepard’s staff leaning toward it. (trust in for support) , so the word simply means the power we trust in. That can be anything , so when speaking of the GODS OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE that can mean anything they trust in for power.
But weGod and Jesus (true believers) have just “one” God. He is Yahweh, who Jesus says is the “ONLY” TRUE GOD.
Anthony, Jesus had a God , a power he leaned on and trusted in, and it is the same GOD, “YAHWEH” we (true believers) also believe and trust in.
Those who believe in more then one true God are all ” IDOLATERS”, who God the FATHER is against, just as he was against Israel when they fell in idolatry, even kicking them out of the land he gave their forefathers, when they also commited “IDOLATRY ” . and do you actually think he will accept you? Who preach the man Jesus as another God. Nothing seem to be worse to God the Father, then those who make other God’s. “repent”.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Carmel,
The child Jesus grew,
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49 And he said unto them,How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? 50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was SUBJECT unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus ICREASED in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.
The prophecy was that the child born of a virgin of the house of David would know to choose the good over the evil, such was God’s grace upon the child as he grew in wisdom, stature and favor with God and man.
Jesus didn’t honor his father and mother, he returned to Nazareth and was SUBJECTED to OBEY, his parents and not disregard them in his dealings with them bringing them sorrow.
He increased in wisdom and stature. He was not YET anointed, he was not yet called to righteousness, he was not yet subjected to God to follow God’s will alone, he was not yet SENT into the world being FULL of the Holy Spirit to fully be led by that Spirit in order to preach God’s word, to perform signs and miracles, to do good in God’s name.
Once he had matured with wisdom and stature, the Spirit came down like a dove, you are directly told at that time he was full of the Holy Spirit and Power. You are directly told that this is when he was being glorified by all and fame began to spread about him. You are directly told by Jesus and in Acts, that he was anointed (chrio) thus made the Christos, because God’s Spirit in full was resting upon him. You are directly told by Jesus that he was SENT out, and he first came into Galilee, the Son of Man ANOINTED SENT to seek and save that which was lost.
Hi Carmel,
Thanks for having me look at chapter 66 more closely, as I will use it now for proof of the truth of which I have been speaking. This passage teaches the OPPOSITE of your doctrine.
1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
Careml, God brought forth children of Israel/Zion and they went their own way not God’s way becoming enemies of God. God will bring their fears upon them. The children who followed God’s ways they will have joy, while the others will be ashamed.
God brought forth Israel to be the nation to rule all nations, to be the center of God’s new earth. Was God going to bring her to birth and not bring her forth according to His word? Was God going to bring forth Israel/Zion and then just shut her womb? NO, He was going to bring forth a child from Israel who would fulfill all His will, be a savior and a righteous judge executing judgement.
Children of Israel were born first, then the man child came, then the man child comes bringing them pain because of their sins.
6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
God didn’t seal up the womb of Israel, He brought forth a savior.
Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’ 23 “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised. 24 BEFORE the COMING of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
Isaiah 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD— 3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; 4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
Carmel chapter 66 does not prove Jesus pre-existed, it proves that he is a CHILD of Israel, he is of the offspring of Jesse and David.
NOTICE that Jesus didn’t COME until after John was preaching of baptism. As Acts also tells you Jesus wasn’t anointed and sent until AFTER John was preaching of baptism. He began doing good beginning in Galilee, that is when the WORD of God, the word of peace, came to the people, where God SENT His word, His gospel to the people through Jesus.
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Hi Gene
You said: Gen 3:22….And the LORD God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. That was the “only” thing God was talking about nothing more, as you falsely believe
The LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of US, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever’” Genesis 3:22 (NKJ).
My point her is the name Lord and God and Us, the Hebrew says Lord= Yahweh, God= Elohim, and Us means the Father and Son ( the Word )
You said: God is a (uni-plural ) word , it is a relative term, it show a relationship with anything Gene right here it’s showing a relationship with the Father and His Son ( the Word) there not called Father and Son in the Old Testament, not till the New Testament.
All the scriptures I showed you show the Duality of God.
And one of my last scriptures was Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
In the Hebrew it reads. Hear, O Israel, YAHWEH our Elohim is YAHWEH echad.
Echad in The Hebrew root means, unify or to called together,and, United One. YAHWEH United, If the intention of the verse was to show there was only one YHWH the Hebrew Word used would have been “yachid”.
Gene yes or no did they make a mistake here in Deuteronomy 6:4 echad and yachid
I take it you never looked up the word one, ” echad”
God bless
Hi Gene
You said: That is why we say “our” God. The word God does not mean a person, it means a relationship with something, even a non person, like an Idol of somekind made of iron, rock, wood, or what ever. We are commanded by “our” God “you shall have “no” other God besides me, nor make no ‘image’ of him in heaven above or earth beneath. what part of that commandment you people don’t understand?
Me: the translators changed the different name of God to the title God. On purpose seeing the most of them believe in one God, like you.
God bless
Anthony, if you are worshiping, the “man” Jesus as your God, you are commiting “IDOLATRY “.
A QUOTATION…..The assault on common sense, simple language facts, and biblical authority we are speaking of has to do with the Hebrew word “echad” which is the cardinal number “one”. In counting in Hebrew we say, echad, 1, sh’nayim, 2, shalom 3, , that is how you say 1,2,3, in Hebrew. Look it up for yourself,
Anthony, you people assault so many simple and common scripture to try to force simple texts to say what in fact they are not saying or even hinting at. You would be so much better of if you would spend time dealing with the straightforward scriptures we are posting, then running all overall the place trying to find a text you can change what it is actually saying.
Jesus never once said he was a God, nor that he preexisted his birth on this earth. The only way you can come up with that stuff is take poorly translated scriptures, and force the text to say what you want it to say, while at the same time ignoring the sound straight forward scriptures.
You can’t just just toss them out and go on as if they are not there. Jodi and I both just keep repeating them and they just fly over your heads, you must deal with them before any progress can be made.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene
You said: if you are worshiping, the “man” Jesus as your God, you are commiting “IDOLATRY
Me : Gene there alot of people and Angel worship Jesus Christ in scriptures.
Your the one committing Idolatry Gene, your literally a deceiver , and you know it. As far has how you think about one is totally wrong.
God bless
T8…..As I have said, if you take a word that in scripture has a different meaning then what you are trying to apply it to, and if you know it, as I believe you do, then that is entrapment, and has nothing to do with being honest at all, in fact it means your are the one being dishonest, by using a word improperly rendered , to inforce your false understanding of that scripture, as you have done with other’s also. Generating false understandings is bad form T8.
Explain the incorrect words in these three verses because I stand on these and many others and you clearly teach against these as they are written. This is one of the reasons I believe you are a false teacher.
Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord…
The Son is the image of the invisible God,the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Hi Gene
You said:
The assault on common sense, simple language facts, and biblical authority we are speaking of has to do with the Hebrew word “echad” which is the cardinal number “one”. In counting in Hebrew we say, echad, 1, sh’nayim, 2, shalom 3, , that is how you say 1,2,3, in Hebrew. Look it up for yourself,
Anthony, you people assault so many simple and common scripture to try to force simple texts to say what in fact they are not saying or even hinting at.
Me: You are totally wrong Gene according to the Hebrew. Why don’t you look it up..
The website, let us reason together.org, has good article, on the word one. Even though they use the word Trinity and One God , which I don’t believe. I believe in the duality of God.
Letusreasontogether.org
THE WORD ONE
Both Trinitarians and Oneness believe there is one God. But it is how we define it that makes the difference.
The Oneness teaching takes all the Scriptures that say God is one and purposely ignore the statements of Jesus and the gospel writers that speak of two or three persons of the Godhead. In the Old Testament teachings were focused on God being one in contrast to the polytheism of the nations that surrounded Israel. There are statements that speak of the plurality of this ONEGod in the Old Testament record. However, it is only when we come to the New Testament that this one in unity is explained.
Bernard writes that the word apparently can mean both one in unity and one numerically for Strong’s defines it as “united, one, first.” He then gives just a few examples to prove that we should choose its meaning to be an absolute one.(Oneness of God, pp.152-153) Bernard finds a few examples contrary to the plural meaning which in no way is exhaustive. However the context determines the meaning.
In the Old Testament God is described as one. Duet.6:4 says, “Hear, O Israel: LORD our God is one: what Oneness does is camp on this passage, milking it till the cows come home. The phrase “one Lord” is preceded in the Hebrew by elohenu; it is our God is one. The word for one is not a numerical one but is actually a united one. The Hebrew word for one is echad, which comes from the root word achad,which means to unify or collect together (the intensive reflexive form signifying to unite). If this was meant to be a strict numerical statement the Holy Spirit would have had Moses use the word yachid, which means a absolute one, single, only one. Yachid is used twelve times in the Scriptures NOT ONCE is it used for Jehovah God. Despite all the explanations we can see they fail in light of the consistent usage of the word one throughout.
The Bible defines how the word one is used.
Gen.1:5 evening and morning are called oneday ( a combination of two parts to make one) they are both considered a day yet we can distinguish them as different phases.
Gen. 2:24 Adam and Eve become one flesh (Here two personalities who come together in marriage and are one, not one person but in unity. God sees them as one even though they are not physically fused together like Siamese twins. If we take the Oneness view this would be the only consideration for our understanding.
Gen.11:6 the people are one Ezra 2:64 the whole assembly of Israel is like one.
Num. 13:23 according to their view When the spies went over into the land of Canaan they brought backone grape (Heb. eschal echad.) Thats one big grap ! Can anyone actually think it was a numerical statement. It means a cluster of grapes.
Ps.133:1 the brethren is to dwell as one ( in unity) 1 Sam.3:17 they are called one company 2 Sam. 2:25one troop 1 kings 7:42 onetribe 1 Kings 11:13 Israel is called one nation.
Ez. 37:17 Ezekial is told to put two sticks together and combined they become one stick. Showing the nation would be unified. In all these examples can anyone find them to be a strict singular meaning ? This same word is applied to the one God and is clearly used as a compound unity. You can twist and turn at the truth of the matter , you can be uncomfortable in its teaching but you can’t remove its consistent usage in the scripture.
The word for a strict single is yachid it is used in Gen.22:2 “Take thy one and only son.” This can also be used for Gods only son being unique and one of a kind.
PLURAL STATEMENTS OF GOD IN THE N.T
Vs.20 “I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you in vs.23 he speaks in a plural … and we will come to him and make ourhome with him. Is the humanity of Christ going to make its home in us! This is one of the few times Jesus speaks in a plural context to explain his unity with both the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Essentially the word one is describing the being of God while we have other statements that describe the persons of God (not human persons but distinct identities). There is not conflict unless someone disregards one or the other.
Jn.17:21 Jesus prays that they all may be one, as you Father are in me , and I in you , that they also may be one in us.”
In the New Testament there is a Greek equivalent to the Hebrew word for one. In Mt.19:5 Jesus quotes Gen.2:24 about a husband and wife becoming one flesh; the word used is hen. Jesus prays that as believers we will be one even as ( Gr. kathos; according as, just as, even as) he and the Father are one. He did not mean our persons would be fused together, it means spiritually united. The God of the Old Testament is a united one. The God of the New Testament is a united one. This is what is meant by God being one.
Jn.10:30 “I and my Father are one,” this is not numerical; Jesus is not saying he is the Father. They are not one person, but in nature they are unified. It actually reads “we are one” in Greek the first person plural esmenmeans‘ we are.’ Again this is a unity in nature not a numerical statement
The word one in Greek is Hen and it is a neuter nominative so it refers to one in essence and nature, and kind. That he is deity just as the Father is. He went on to explain he is the Son of God and the Pharisees understood his claim of making himself out to be equal with the Father.
Eph. 2:18 ” Through Christ we both have access to the Father, by one Spirit.”
Here we have three distinct persons involved in our relationship to God. Christ the person (God/man) has made it possible, the Spirit who is the means of access and the Father who is the object. The scripture uses “we” both in relation to the Jews and gentiles, two people groups. These same words are used also of the Son and the Father showing they are two different persons.
2 Cor. 13:14 “May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all”. Here again are all three mentioned why make distinctions if they are all the same person.
There are numerous illustrations in the O.T. of the three being one. For example there is a tradition even today as the Jew’s say the S’hma Deut.6:4 it is broken up into three segments each repeated three times while the last word one is said only once, indicating unity. Isaiah when he saw the Lord in his temple Isa.6 said, “holy, holy, holy,”. Also in Rev. 4:8 it describes the angels saying it thrice day and night, showing it is a set pattern in heaven where God dwells. Yet more times than not God is represented as the Holy one of Israel. In Numbers 6:24 we find a thrice fold blessing with the title Lord. Num 6:24-27 “The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you; the LORD lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.” “So they shall put My name on the children of Israel, and I will bless them.” In like manner 2 Cor.13:14 states” The grace of the Lord Jesus, and the love of Godand the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” Here we see all three mentioned as a unit. While this cannot emphatically prove tri-unity it does show there was this concept that is not foreign to the scriptures.
The word one clearly is used a united plural and that is the teaching revealed from Genesis to Rvevaltion.
God bless, you’ll get it after awhile 🙏
Gene,
You:……. Not a single word you quoted even hints at Jesus being a Spirit, without having a physical body. Scripture tell us we are waiting in hope for the resurection, “that will witness the redemption of our “BODIES” . There are no “spirit bodies”, there are spirits that live “in” physical bodies, called living souls.
Me: Who said he was a spirit without a body. I have said repeatedly that Christ is primarily a spirit in the image of God. That spirit has the heart and mind of the seed of David. The Word was the spiritual image of the mind of God and did not need a body. In the OT, the Word manifested himself temporarily in Theophanys. He manifested himself in Jesus Christ in John 1:14 when he created his own body by the will of God. The heart and mind of the flesh grew in its bond with the Word of God in him. The Messiah’s only spirit was the holy spirit. His glorious body is the reflection of his inner self.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: So the Word in Christ did not have a permanent body until he joined the seed of David.
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT (4151).
4151. pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo’-mah)
Definition: wind, spirit
Usage: wind, breath, spirit.
The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) has the same range of meaning as 4151 (pneúma), i.e. it likewise can refer to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.]
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit (4151) and in truth.1 Tim 1:17 (NIV) Now to the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Me: The Father is NVISIBLE SPIRIT
1 Cor 15:45 (NKJV) And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit (4151) .
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit (4151); and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the IMAGE OF GOD, should shine unto them.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person…
Me: Christ is the express or exact image of the invisible God and thus is invisible spirit also. His body is a reflection of that spirit.
Romans 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the MIND OF THE SPIRIT is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Me: It should be obvious that spirit in the scripture just presented is the mind of the spirit. Therefore it is of the spirit and therefore is spirit. God is a mind of the holy spirit and so is Christ’s spirit mind made in that image.
Gene:
You: You seem to not know what a soul really is’, Genesis tells us, a soul is, a body with the breath of life “in” it, this is what is called “A LIVING SOUL” these two things that must be present for us to live, nothing more, nothing less.
Me: the definition of Nephesh is shown below.
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htm
5315.nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh’-fesh)
Definition: a soul (me: inner self), living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion…HEARTSoul is one definition of nephesh and is an English word meaning primarily meaning inner self. It is one of the definitions of nephesh.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul
Meridian Webster definition of soul:
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe
b capitalized, Christian Science : GOD SENSE 1B
3 : a person’s total selfhttps://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/2-7.htm
Gen 2:7 And YHWH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (5315.nephesh).
New American Standard BibleGen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING BEING.
Me: The man became a living nephesh or being, not a living soul. The proper definition to choose above Is “living being.”
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great5, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his (315.nephesh) unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/53-12.htmIsa 53:12 (NIV) Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his LIFE (nephesh) unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Better yet
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his (inner self) unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Me: This translation would then coincide with:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my (me: David’s) soul (5590) in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption…31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
5590. psuché
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
NASB Translation
HEART (2), heartily (1), life (36), lives (7), mind (1), minds (1), person (1), persons (3), soul (33), souls (14), suspense* (1), thing (1).You Can’t have a living Soul without a body. Jesus told us to fear him that can destory “both” Soul (breath of life) and body, in hell (grave). Jesus’ body was resurected and the spirit of life was added back into it, and he then became a living soul “again” . And is still a “living soul” to this very day.
Me: NO! That is a lot of bull. Please read the next scripture below.
1 Cor 15:45 (NKJV) And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being (me: not soul).” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit (4151) .
Me: Soul has a multitude of definitions as I have shown you. In Acts 2:27, 31 it means the inner self including the heart of this essence. Christ did not have a human spirit, he only had the holy spirit (Eph 4:4) that never left the spirit mind or Word in Christ after the human self and body died.
TC…..You say, the soul has a multude of definitions, that To me is Bull, scripture shows only two, for all creation, you are either a “living soul” or a “dead one”. why not just go by what scripture says a Soul is? Tell us TC, what was Jesus meaning when he said,
Matt 10:28 …..And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul :(the life given spirit that returns back to God who gave it) , but rather fear him which is able to “destory” “both”, soul and body, in hell (grave).
Did you notice there are “two” things that make up a human man, the body, and the breath of life, which cause us to live. WE ARE TOLD TO FEAR HIM WHO CAN ” DESTORY” “BOTH”, NOT JUST KILL THE BODY.
TC…… if what you say is correct there would be no need for a “body” resurection at all, because the spirit goes back to God who gave it. So in your view turning to a spirit, when we die, the is no need of a ” reserection body” at all. BUT scriptures shows it is a “BODY” that is resurected from the grave, we know the body without the spirit is dead, then what you are saying it stays dead, and only the spirit exists right? So what do you do with this scripture,
Rom 8:23….. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wittness, the “redemption of our “body” .
You preach that there is no need for a ” resurected “body”. But Paul seems to disagree with you. And tell us how does your non physical resurection , compare to what Ezekiel 37:7-14, how does what you say clear that hurdle.
I maintain the resurection is a physical body, with the spirit of life in it. Doing away with the physical creation is not now or ever was in the plan of God. God will deliever “his” whole creation from the bondage of corruption. According to scripture.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene
Did you forget?
Look up these words. yachiyd and echad
The word “yachiyd” (pronounced “yaw-kheed”) is used to indicate “one and only one.” This word is frequently translated into the English word “only.” However, it literally means “only one” or “solitary one.” It is a word which suggests an indivisible one as opposed to the compound unity implied by the word “echad.”
If God was an indivisible unity, as opposed to the compound unity implied by “echad,” then surely the Holy Spirit would have inspired Moses to use the word “Yachiyd.”
Are you translator, Gene. Because if you are you had it totally wrong. Now you just want to drop it.
It’s hard for a prideful man to say He is wrong, the humble are willing too and change accordingly.
God bless
Anthony, I would say your translator has it totally wrong, the Translator I used was from a bible scholar who knows Hebrew and Greek, you can also ask any JEW who can to count in Hebrew and they will tell you “echad ” is a word for 1, a cardinal number, not two, three, or more anything . The word “yachid” is very rare and has associations like “lonely or “solitary”.
You people are experts at decieving people, just like the rest of trinitarian your trinitarian followers . YOU PEOPLE USE the word one to confuse and decieve , the unlearned, to believe in the multiplicity of God and trying to destory his “oneness” , but scripture tell us clearly, “hear O Israel, the LORD, our GOD, is “ONE” LORD. NOT TWO or three anythings.
All your chatter does not erase that, and my advice to all reading this, stay with the simple and clearly written scriptures, and don’t get caught up in the wicked Web, these false preachers spin.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …….. gene
Here is a place you can view for yourself, and read the article on the Hebrew word “echad” for yourself.
http://www.restorationfellowship.org , the article is titled THE HEBREW WORD FOR ONE MEANS ONE.
God and Jesus are one as the children of God are one and one with Christ and one with God.
When a man and a woman become one it is one in unity, not unit or one being.
Likewise being one with God does not make you God and never will.
Hi All
“Let Us Make Man in Our Image”
“And God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'” Genesis 1:26,
“The LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of US, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever'” Genesis 3:22
Come, let US go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” Genesis 11:7
Ecclesiates 12:1 we read:
“Remember also thy Creators in the days of thy youth, While that the evil days come not, Nor the years have arrived, that thou sayest, ‘I have no pleasure in them.'” Isaiah 54:5, where the prophet states:
“For thy Maker is thy husband, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, And thy Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, ‘God of all the earth,’ He is called.'”
Maker” is the plural form of the word “asa,” which means to form or make. Reads Makers in the Hebrew.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one LORD!” Deuteronomy 6:4
In this verse we are told that God is One. However, when we examine the word “echad,” translated “one,” we discover an interesting meaning. This word, “echad,” comes from a Hebrew root which means “to unify” or “to collect together,” a “united one.”. Deuteronomy 6:4 implies a compound unity – a plurality of personages
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one (echad) flesh” Genesis 2:24,
And the LORD said: They are one (echad) people, and they have all one language.” Genesis 11:6,.
echad is a plurality. The word “yachiyd” is used to indicate “one and only one.
We see a plurality with God I believe that it has to do with The Father and His Son. A dulity .
God bless
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