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Gene:
You: And again, Jesus said unto Peter “blessed are you Simon Barjoni, because flesh and blood” , (Jesus was flesh and blood) “did not reveal that unto you, but my Father who is in heaven has “reavealed” it unto you, and I say unto you, you are Peter, (Jesus had that reavealed understanding from the Father also) , “and.
Me: NO!!! The spirit of God had revealed all through the Father in the OT. There was no Messiah yet. The Messiah was not fully bonded with the father’s mind through the holy spirit until he was resurrected from the dead and glorified. He was not the new husband of a better covenant yet. Another two verses that basically says the same thing is:
Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
You: upon this “rock” , (the power of God to reveal truth into the minds of people), “I shall build the church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
It is all a work of God, by the SPIRIT OF GOD, in and through all those he is using, including the “man” Jesus.Me:
1 Peter 2:8 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Me: Christ is the chief corner stone in which he builds his church.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, JESUS CHRIST himself being the CHIEF CORNER STONE; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Me: Truly the Rock in Matt 16:18 is Christ. He is the foundation corner stone of the church. Why do you separate him from his brethren? Peter means small pebble in the same verse. . This fits in with 1 Peter 2:5 above.
Hi Anthony,
First of all the virgin birth as a sign, was a sign for the house of David. The house of David was afraid of other tribes taking over as ruler of the kingdom. God’s sign was ALL ABOUT letting the tribe of Judah know that God was going to keep His promise.
What was God’s promise to the House of David Anthony?
One of the tribe of Judah, a son of Jesse, a son of David, would be begotten by God made into a Son of God. He would have God’s Spirit rest upon him as a calling to righteousness for a covenant for the people.
A Son of Man of the seed of David would be made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death and then be given all the works of God’s hands.
A Son of Man of the seed of David would receive a kingdom for eternity.
The offspring of David would be raised from the dead where God would not allow his flesh to see corruption.
Second of All, this anointed of the offspring of Jesse was CALLED by God into righteousness to fulfill God’s will, he spoke not his own words, he followed not his own will, the work that he did was God’s work being done through him made capable because God’s Spirit rested upon him.
Jesus is called Immanuel “God with us”, for the reason given below, the purpose of Jesus was to bring us into faith of the One True God, and we are to have faith that as God perfected and raised Jesus from the dead given him eternal life, we also are promised to be perfected and receive eternal life, as we are joint heirs with Christ, as he is an heir of God, we too are heirs of God.
1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
God promised to anoint the offspring of Jesse, that anointing occurred. God’s word is true, and by such it builds my faith in God knowing that what He says is true, it will be fulfilled. God made promises and then fulfilled them through Jesus, by such Jesus is SEEN as God being with us, by such we believe in the One True God and have faith that we too shall be resurrected, for we are told that Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren (another promise God made to the house of David).
YOU:This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
ME: Jesus our Messiah indeed supersedes our father Abraham most definitely, as he received the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might and Knowledge and fear of the LORD. As he is the one who receives the government from God, for it was prophesied that THE SON OF MAN would be given dominion over all the works of God’s hands, and that he would be a righteous judge because he would not judge with his own eyes and ears.
The Messiah of prophecy, is first a child that grows with God’s grace upon him and thus knows to choose the good over the evil, and then the child grows to be a man and is anointed with God’s Spirit. The child born was the child of prophecy of Isaiah 7, and the child born was also the child that would become the man anointed according to prophecy of Isaiah 11, 42, and 61.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Jesus was a human son and he was elected from among the people with a great calling, a calling to righteousness where he would be a covenant for the people even a light to the Gentiles.
TC…..We are joint heirs with Jesus, of “all things” we are one with God the Father and Jesus, just as it says as he was so are we. Jesus is not the Father, he is the Son a completely different person, apart from God, who God anointed with his Holy Spirit, just as he does us.
Your concept about Jesus not being bonded with God until he was resurected , dosen’t fly because scripture say he had the fullness of the spirit given him while he was on this earth. God the Father was in him according to him m while he c was on this earth as a flesh and blood human being. He even said he was bonded with the Father, saying me and the Father are one , while he was still on this earth. So when he recieved the anointing of God’s Holy spirit, he became one with him and so do we. Jesus is refered to as a High priest, and so are we. A hight prexist represents God , but is not himself a deity or a God, right?
Not really sure what you are driving at, but Jesus to me is not God, nor is he God’s word, even though he does speak GOD’S THE FATHER’S WORDS TO US. Are you trying to turn Jesus into a deity or a God, OF SOMEKIND? The word messiah simply means anointed one, nothing more or less, to me, Moses and the seventy elders, and other leaders like King David and the prophets were also anointed ones. What makes you think the word messiah has any different meaning?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
P
Hi Anthony,
To continue on a response to your last post,
YOU: Jesus is God.
You gave this passage: Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
ME: Looks like we need to clarify the difference between YHWH and other gods.
YHWH is the One True God, He alone exists with powers and He can anoint men with His powers. He anointed Moses with those powers and when he did YHWH said that he was making Moses a god unto Pharaoh.
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
“god” = elohiym
(plural)
rulers, judges
divine ones
angels
gods
(plural intensive – singular meaning)
god, goddess
godlike one
works or special possessions of God
the (true) GodFrom Isaiah 9:6 “Mighty God”
God = el
god, god-like one, mighty one
mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroesYHWH alone is a God, all other gods are either fake, or they are not alone as a god, as they are only gods through having received their mightiness from YHWH, the one TRUE God.
Moses received powers from God to bring plagues and part the red sea. Jesus received powers from God to walk on water, turn water into wine, raise the dead, heal the sick, etc… YHWH also gave Jesus the authority to judge and rule over man, as YHWH GAVE Jesus dominion over all the works of His hands.
Jeremiah 10:6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD (Yehovah); thou art great, and thy name is great in might. 7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. 8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. 9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. 10 But the LORD (Yehovah) is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. 11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. 12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
YHWH made heaven and earth by HIS wisdom.
Jesus RECEIVED wisdom from YHWH, he was anointed with the Spirit of Wisdom. Jesus RECEIVED authority to judge and he judges NOT by his own eyes and ears but through God’s Spirit resting upon him.
“a child is born and the government WILL BE on his shoulders.”
“he WILL BE called wonderful counselor, mighty god, everlasting father, prince of peace”
This child that WILL BE, WILL DO NOTHING of himself, he will only do that which YHWH has taught him.
The child that WILL BE, WILL BE ANOINTED with God’s Spirit at the river where he WILL be filled with the Spirit of Wisdom, of Understanding, of Council and Might, of Knowledge and fear of the Lord (YHWH).
The child that WILL BE, WILL BE PERFECTED by YHWH and become our source of eternal salvation, being given all authority/dominion over all that YHWH has made.
The child that WILL BE, WILL BE of the offspring of David and he WILL BE begotten by YHWH.
The child that WILL BE, WILL BE the eternal king over David’s throne.
ANTHONY seems as if you didn’t keep reading after verse 6 and that you just flat out IGNORE YHWH’s words elsewhere that Isaiah gave.
Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD (YHWH), he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
HERE is how the child becomes the prince of peace Anthony. The child, the offspring of Jesse grows to be a man and is anointed at the river being CALLED to righteousness to be a covenant, that covenant BRINGS us our peace. Judgement and Justice come from YHWH, He performs it starting with fulfilling the sign of a virgin birth, then with an anointing, a calling to righteousness of a Son of Man, the offspring of Jesse and David, then perfecting him and giving him over to die, then raising him from the dead and placing this Son of Man at His right hand, which represents authority, as YHWH GIVES this anointed perfected Son of Man dominion over the works of His hands as He also gives Him as promised an eternal throne, the throne of his father David.
Hi Jodi
You deal with one scripture, and ignore the rest. Jodi you look at the scriptures from the New Testament which shows progressive revalation and a fuller understanding of things. Jesus Christ is called God in the N.T. not God.
God bless
Hi Jodi
Let us look at the Old Testament Hebrew word Elohim itself to find out what that term really means. First of all, Elohim is clearly a plural word. The two terminal letters “im” make the word to be plural. Etymologically, the word Elohim is derived from the Hebrew words“El” and “Eloah” which are singular words that signify what we in English call “Strong,” “Mighty” or “Power.” 1 Since Elohim is plural, the simple meaning of Elohim is “Powers” or “Powerful Ones.”However, we will see that when Elohim is governed by a singular verb (which occurs often in Scripture), the stress coalesces the plural meaning into a singular understanding (but still with plural significance).
The plural is fused into meaning a singular“Group of Powers” or, worded differently, a“Congregation of Powers.” This single“Group” or“Congregation” can easily take a singular verb. Note that the English words“Group,” “Congregation”, and “Assembly” (Greek: Ekklesia) need singular verbs to modify them, while the words themselves have the significance of plurality inherent in their meanings. Thus, when Elohim is governed by singular verbs, it means a“Group of Powerful Beings” united as ONE entity. But if a plural verb is used with Elohim, then Elohim returns to its simple plural meaning and signifies “Powers” or “Powerful Ones.”
When the singular verb is used, it tends to “institutionalize” the significance of Elohim. This institutionalizing of“God” is found in the use of Elohim in Exodus 6:7 (note the use of the first“God” in this verse): “I will be to you a God: and you shall know that I am the Lord [YHVH] your God.”This emphasis makes the first use of “God” in the verse as denoting a“Thing,” not a personality alone. It focuses its meaning into being a“What” rather than a“Who.” The Hebrew of this verse is clearer in showing this.
Elohim Can Be a “What” and a “Who”
The English “God” is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. No matter what we have been taught over the years about the singularity of God, the word Elohim is a simple plural. If we wish to use the English word “God” as its translation, we must (to be grammatically harmonious and consistent) place the letter “s” on our word “God” throughout the Hebrew scriptures. It makes no difference if some theologians object to this plural usage, the “s” should be attached to the translated English word “God” if it translates the Hebrew word Elohim. It is grammatically correct to do this no matter what the theological objection. True enough, the word Elohim most often takes a singular verb to modify it, but it still must be understood (grammatically) as a plural word. Using a singular verb with a plural noun may seem like a contradiction, but it is not. In the Hebrew, when Elohim is kept plural with a singular verb, it makes a “what” out of the word and not a “who.”Many modern examples in English show the legitimacy of this conclusion. Look at the following statement: “Since the end of the Cold War, the United States is the singular world power on earth.” This clause makes perfectly good sense to anyone reading it today. Of course, the United States is a “What.” It is not a “Who,” though it is made up of a multitude of human beings. The United States is not considered a personality. It is an institution, a political power governed by human beings who are its citizens. Its grammatical usage is very similar to that of Elohim governed when by singular verbs. Note that though the United States is plural in form, it is a single power, not a multiplicity of states acting independently in foreign affairs, and it normally takes a singular verb to describe its actions.
In fact, we in the world today know of ONE United States of America and no other. Likewise, “God” is described in the same way as being the ONE “God” and no other. And like the word “God,” the USA is also one state made up of many individual states of lesser rank. This usage is similar to what Jewish theologians call the Shema statement of their faith in the oneness of God as recorded in the Law of Moses. The Shema is supposed to be the heart and core of Judaism. It defines the fervent declaration of their belief in the unity and the singularity of God as defined in the Bible. It is what Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 6:4–5. It reads,
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord [YHVH] our God[Elohim] is ONE Lord[YHVH]: And thou shalt love the Lord [YHVH] thy God [Elohim] with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.”
This statement is clear enough except in one major point. The English word “God” in the above two verses was not understood correctly by the King James translators because the Hebrew word Elohim is plural and if one wishes to retain the English word “God” one must put an “s” on “God” each time it is used. By stating this, I would normally be subjected to ridicule by those who read and use the Hebrew language because it is evident that in the great majority of cases Elohim, though plural in grammatical construction, is governed by singular verbs and must be understood in a singular manner. Yes, but still I state dogmatically that the only way to make sense out of the Hebrew in regard to understanding the Godhead is to put the letter “s” on the end of every word translated “God” in the English language if the Hebrew word is Elohim.Again, note this. We know the “United States” is plural in rendering, but we still use a singular verb to modify it. If we do this with Elohim (plural) in the same manner, things will begin to make sense. True, by keeping Elohim plural (as it actually is in the Bible), we would ordinarily recognize a major disharmony in normal English renderings. It is contrary to our basic understanding of grammar when the plurality of a noun does not agree with a singularity of a verb. This clanging disharmony in sound and usage may disturb our concept of balance and agreement in using our English laws of language. But it need not be that way. Notice again how grammatically harmonious it is in English to say, “The United States IS located in the Western Hemisphere.” That is NOT a cacophonic statement inharmoniously clanging to our ears.
In similar fashion, Elohim(as a plural) was not discordant to the early Hebrews when a singular verb was used to modify the word. To the early Hebrews there was often a concordant consistency and harmony in letting Elohim (plural) be governed by singular verbs. It is just this grammatical feature of the Hebrew language that provides us with an understanding of “What” the Godhead really is, and by deduction we can learn “Who” the Godhead are as far as its personalities are concerned. This is so important to understand that I do not apologize for being repetitious.
In Elohim, there is not the slightest disharmony with using a plural noun governed by a singular verb. Now note this. Use of the plural with a singular verb “institutionalizes” the word and places the emphasis outside the grammatical environment of signifying personalities. The usage could easily describe a plurality of offices or ranks that a person may hold within an institution. Indeed, we find the Hebrew word Adonai as a plural means “Lords” or “Masters” showing a singular person having a plurality of ranks. 2 I will discuss the use of Adonai as plural word later. The fact is, the plurality of the Godhead is everywhere shown in the Holy Scriptures. It is a cardinal doctrine of God.
But for now, look again at the Shema declaration found in Deuteronomy 6:4. If one puts an “s” on the end of the words translated “God,” those words obviously become “Gods” (plural). There is no verb “is” in the original of the Shema statement. (Note that “is” in the KJV is italicized, showing there is no written verb in the original Hebrew.) Still, we recognize (correctly) that a singular verb can be used in the Shema statement because the very text itself says that Elohim (“Gods” plural) is ONE. This cardinal point emphasizes the singularity of the plural word Elohim. But how can a plural word have singular attributes buttressed by the use of the Hebrew word “ONE” that governs the clause? It may seem strange that “ONE” can be MANY, but it can.
There is not the slightest argument that the verb connecting Elohim with “one” should be the singular “is.” But the plural noun with a singular verb makes a “What” into a “Thing” out of the plural word “Elohim.” It institutionalizes the word “Gods” much like we reckon the “United States” as a plural in form while we understand it as a single institution. The singular, on the other hand, emphasizes the “group” rather than the individuals of the “group.” “The United States is committed to supply troops to NATO,” is a perfectly good sentence that is not grammatically discordant to English speaking people.
The same is the case with the Hebrew Elohim that English translators most often translate as “God” (singular). But we need to return to the original Hebrew manner of using Elohim, and should always keep it plural (or, understand it as a plural). This means that Elohim should be translated as “Gods” (or something similar) and recognized as a plural in the same way we in English use our political term “United States.” Pluralizing the word has the effect of “institutionalizing” its meaning, which can then be governed by a singular verb. When this is done, we can use a perfectly good English word to describe the Deity.
What word? There is an English word that is better than our word “God” or “Gods” that can denote an exact equivalent of Elohim, and it also means an institution — a “Group of Powerful Ones.” That word is “Headquarters,” a word connected with the idea of “power” the same as Elohim is associated in Hebrew with “power.” Though the word “Headquarters” is plural, the headquarters of an army (and even the headquarters of a corporation in the business world) are most often used in the singular sense. Usually there is only ONE “headquarters” (that is, ONE power center) normally made up of a commanding officer or a chief executive with lieutenants under him who manage a staff with associated offices all under the top leadership. And so it is with Elohim.The word denotes a heavenly “Headquarters” with God the Father as the head, but with lieutenants (other officers called “Sons of God”) and a staff (various angels) under Him who comprise the singular institution. God the Father is chief in command and under Him is His Firstborn Son, Christ Jesus.
This “Headquarters” can even be personified as a “he” (as it would be in Hebrew) if the commanding officer or an inferior officer representing the top authority is the person being discussed in the context. Our English word “Headquarters” (a power center) is what the word Elohim actually signifies when considered in many biblical texts. When we speak of “Headquarters” we normally do NOT think of the physical buildings with the actual rooms that contain the various offices, physical furniture, and the office machines. No, by “Headquarters” we almost always think of the personnel, the individuals, who make up the top command — from the commanding executive officer on down through the complete staff who comprise all the personnel of “Headquarters.”
So it is with Elohim. It has the meaning of “Headquarters” (a center of Powerful Ones). The word Elohim signifies the combined group (an Ekklesia or assembly of powers). Those individual powers are the powerful Father, the powerful firstborn Son and all their powerful staff in the various offices and ranks which they hold at Headquarters. Elohim is a word indicating those plural offices or ranks at the single Headquarters in heaven. This Headquarters as a single authority has the legal right to act, even in unison, as a creator. As a matter of fact, “Headquarters” (Elohim) can be reckoned as the creator itself. Look at Genesis 1:1. The verse could be rendered, “In the beginning, Headquarters created the heavens and the earth” — one must understand this as the Divine Headquarters in heaven doing the creating with the Father, the “Sons of God” and other staff helping Christ.
Similar to “Headquarters,” the word “Elohim” (plural) could also mean Deity or Divinity, or the Divine as a group. This Divinity group when it creates is made up of “Creators” who act in unison. And though we are told by the apostle Paul that the chief executive in charge of the creation was the firstborn Son, Christ Jesus (Colossians 1:15–19; Hebrews 1:2, 10), Paul shows that Christ did this under the authority of the Father with many helpers. 3 Indeed, Solomon in the Hebrew of Ecclesiastes 12:1 shows that the human race was made by “Creators” (plural). In Hebrew, the Creators are always reckoned to beElohim. This is why the plurality of the word should be retained in regard to the Godhead (the Divinity). This rendering is why our English plural “Headquarters” (that is, a Power center with a plural emphasis) is an accurate and useful meaning of Elohim (Powers or Powerful Ones).
Since the Hebrew Elohimis a clear plural, it is better to retain the plural rendering in all our English translations. Thus, the plural word “Headquarters” could be accepted as an English equivalent of the Hebrew Elohim that makes sense. And to further buttress this suggestion, even the word Adonai, which means “Lord” or “Master,” is often used in the plural while its emphasis is to a single entity (e.g. Genesis 42:30, 33; Isaiah 22:18; 51:22; Ezra 10:3; Malachi 1:6). In the case of Adonai being plural, the scholars state this means a plurality of rank — one or more persons having several offices and ranks that he or they hold. This is like the President of the United States who is the top person at the “Headquarters” of the executive branch of government. Though there are individual cabinet officers in Washington, D.C. who actually head the several branches of executive government, the President is technically the chief officer over them all. He is the one who wears “all the caps” of headship. In Hebrew, the President would be called the “Lords” (plural) of those various offices. So “Headquarters” comprises all those offices as does Elohim and the plural of Adonai.
There is more. The word Elohim and the plural of Adonai are not the only plural words designating the Godhead in Scripture. As I have already mentioned, we are told of the “Creators” of humans on earth (Ecclesiastes 12:1, see Hebrew). But even the patriarch Job called his creator “my Makers” (Job 35:10, plural in Hebrew). In Isaiah 54:5 the words “Maker” and “Husband” referring to God are both in the plural. And this plural usage is reflected in Isaiah 6:8 where the Lord said to Isaiah, “whom shall I send, and who will go FOR US.” There is also Genesis 1:26: “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.” Even the word “make” in Genesis 1:26 is a plural verb. And remember Genesis 11:7 where Elohim says, “Let US go down and confound their language.” These plural forms are placed in the Bible in a plain way to emphasize the plurality of the Godhead (a Divine Group of Powerful Personalities). And remember, Genesis 1:26–27 states that the plural “Godhead” includes members that are both males and females. The “female” aspect of the Godhead is emphasized along with the “male” in the first chapter of Genesis, and we are told by the apostle Paul that there are “Sons” and “Daughters” of God (2 Corinthians 6:18).
So the Godhead in the Hebrew language is filled with plural significance, and not limited to three personalities as the false Trinity doctrine teaches. We in English have little difficulty with such plural/singular concepts when we view the United States as a single political state (as an institution) in foreign affairs with other nations. The United States of America is a single political state in the way foreigners look at us from their external point of view, but internally we are made up of 50 individual states when reckoned in the domestic sense. Now, rephrasing the Shema statement as an example for illustration, one might say: “Hear, O World, the United States is ONE state.” All political scientists would recognize instantly the validity and propriety of such a sentence. In the case of the United States, even the word “one” associated with it (to show it is a single political state) still includes the plurality of the 50 separate states that make up the single state known as the United States. This usage is used in the word “ONE” (Hebrew: echad) found in the Shema declaration. So, it is quite common to think of “one” as “many.”
The Hebrew Word “One”
The Hebrew word “one” can actually carry the meaning of more than “one” (a single person). Note carefully when Adam was married to Eve, they became “ONE flesh” (echad), though they represented two separate personalities (Genesis 2:24). But the Hebrew word echad is more expansive in the plural meaning than that. When the Lord (YHVH) went down from heaven to view the people of the earth building the Tower of Babel, He said, “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language”(Genesis 11:7). Then notice what happened. God, as Commander in Chief of Supreme Headquarters in heaven, because all the people who lived in the world at the time had been rebellious to the Godhead, said, “Let US go down. … for the people is ONE[echad], and they have all ONE language” (verses 11:6). This usage is well known in the Holy Scriptures.The word “ONE” [echad] is very expansive in its meaning. Its usage includes all people on earth within a single unit. This biblical use of the word “ONE ” included all female members of humanity as well as all the males. They were all reckoned as ONE [echad]. That’s right! All the people at the Tower of Babel were simply and plainly ONE [echad]. They were united as ONE society. And indeed, in the very same manner, the Godhead is represented as “ONE ,” and there is not an iota of difference in the meaning of the words. This is similar to the United States (plural) being ONE country (singular) with all 50 states representing ONE entity.
So also the plural Elohim ONE Godhead made up of many individuals (the Father, the Firstborn Son, and other “Sons of God,” along with female members, see Proverbs 8:22–31), and the apostle John included spirit-filled humans in it (1 John 3:1–2). Altogether, the Divine Group of individuals represents the ONE divine Headquarters called the Family of God (with both males and females in it). Because males govern in the Family apparatus the most, we seldom hear of the female side of the Godhead, but it is there as sure as the male side (2 Corinthians 6:18).
This oneness in plurality is even shown in the Shema statement. It states emphatically that Elohim is ONE [echad]. But we should recognize that the Hebrew word echadcan mean two people who are married and reckoned as ONE flesh or the word can embrace the whole of the human race, depending on the context in which it occurs.
The Greek Word “One”
The same usage is found in the Greek of the New Testament. The apostle Paul applied the same usage for “ONE” and referred it to the whole of the Ekklesia (wrongly translated the church) in Ephesians 5:31. Paul used the same term (“ONE”) and said that as Adam and Eve became ONE flesh, so Christ has become ONE flesh with a group of people whom He identified as the Ekklesia.He said this group represents ONE Body made up of many members (1 Corinthians 12:12–27, 30).“For as the Body is ONE, and hath MANY members, and all the members of that one Body, being MANY, are ONE Body: so also is Christ.”1 Corinthians 12:12
“The Body is not one member, but MANY” (verse 14).
“Now are they MANY members, yet but ONE Body” (verse 20).
“Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular” (verse 27).
I have emphasized the word “ONE” for a reason. In the Bible ONE can mean MANY:“For as we have MANY members in ONE Body, and all members have not the same office: so we, being MANY, are ONE Body in Christ.”Romans 12:4–5
Never forget! All of us are members of ONE Body because all of us are in Christ (Ephesians 1:3–14). But Christ is also in the Father. This means we are also in the Father because Christ said, “I and the Father are ONE”(John 10:30). This indicates in the theological terms of the Bible that ONE can be reckoned as TWO when the Father and Christ are unified in purpose. But it goes further than that. Christ said in His prayer to the Father that all people on earth are given to Christ by the Father and they are also ONE with Him as Christ is ONE with the Father.“Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given me, that they may be one as we are[ONE].”
John 17:11
And since we Christians as a group (being members of the singular Body of Christ) are now ONE with the Father, then the word “ONE” embraces all of us within its meaning (and also within the Shema statement). Indeed, all members of the Ekklesia are called the single “Body of Christ.” This “Body” is like“Elohim,” a plural significance in a singular form. Indeed, the New Testament term Ekklesia can apply to the Hebrew Elohim as meaning a plurality of powers. It is unusual in the Bible to find it otherwise. Thus, the Hebrew word for “monotheism” (one-God) means a plurality of beings.There is still more. A modern word for “Body” is “Corporation.” Our English word “corporation” is derived from the Latin word “body.” But no one conceives of a corporation being made up of one person. In the business world a corporation usually denotes a vast number of people governed by a Headquarters, and like Elohim it can take a singular or a plural verb. We could say that the British Broadcasting Corporation (the BBC) is a large institution, or as it is quite common in Britain to say, “the BBC are a large corporation.” And so it is with Elohim, or with the “Body of Christ” (which could be legitimately rendered as being the “Corporation of Christ”). Many members make up that ONE “Body” or that ONE “Corporation.” And recall, the “Body of Christ” is ONE Body. This is why the word “ONE” in the Shema declaration can also include a vast multitude of individuals who comprise the ONE Family who governs the universe. The apostle John made it clear that we, even though we are still in our human flesh during this age, are presently reckoned as the Children of God — actual born children!
“Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God [the Greek means “children of God” here]. … NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD[“children of God”], and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
1 John 3:1–2
The reason Christ Jesus came into this world to die on the cross and to be resurrected from the dead was to provide the entire human race with our divine destiny. That destiny is to be the children of God and brothers of Christ. The apostle Paul made this doctrine a cardinal one to him.“We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN [all men died]. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of ONE: for which cause he [Jesus] is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN[BROTHERS], saying, ‘I will declare your[GOD’S] name UNTO MY BRETHREN[BROTHERS]’.”
Hebrews 2:9–12
The apostle Paul says in the above verse that “all things” were made FOR Christ and that “all things” were made BY Christ. Paul also said that we are all ONE in the Father and in Christ, and we are “brothers” of Christ. Being called “brothers” means we are all of the same Family. It is a divine Family made up of all the children of God the Father, with Christ being our Elder Brother. And in Christ, Paul said we “ARE ALL OF ONE.” All of us make up ONE Body and ONE Family. We (plural) all make up the ONE monotheistic Family of God. And females are as much a part of that divine family as males. Paul said we are all “sons and daughters” of God the Father (2 Corinthians 6:18). And since Paul taught that all Christians are collectively in the ONE Body of Christ, called the Ekklesia (1 Corinthians 12:12), and that we all are acknowledged as being seated together in Christ who as a singular person sits at the right hand of the Father (Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1), then we Christians are also reckoned as EQUALLY sitting on the Father’s right side.“But we are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly andEkklesia [a divine group]of the firstborn [Greek: FIRSTBORN ONES, plural], which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”
Hebrews 12:22–23
Christians are acknowledged as having their names written in a manner denoting our membership in the heavenly Ekklesia, of which the earthly Ekklesia is a type and we are acknowledged as firstborn ones. And in the resurrection we will be able to meet personally with the spirits of just men made perfect. These will be other individuals. Indeed, all mankind (who were made FOR and BY Christ) are destined to become the very children of God the Father through no works of their own, but through the grace and works of Jesus Christ (His life, death and resurrection).So, “Just What Is God?” Elohim is the ONE divine Family to which all of us belong and into which we will be born at our resurrections from the dead. All of us of the human race have a glorious future awaiting us. We are all destined in Christ Jesus to partake of the Godhead and be members of that ONE Family for the rest of eternity. This is not “New Age” teaching. It is “Old Age” doctrine that comes directly from the plain statements of the Holy Scriptures. It is the truth of God and His Son, Jesus Christ. What the so-called “New Agers” have done is to take a central truth of the Scripture and color it with the errors of eastern pagan mysticism. And true enough, we are not only to become “gods” in the very Family of God, but we are already acknowledged as members of that Family in our present human existence (1 John 3:1–2).
God bless
Hi T8
You: I’m not sure which is worse, the Trinity Doctrine or the Ordinary Jesus Doctrine.
Me: BOTH
God bless
ANTHONY. …..talk about endless geological contoritions. The word God in it’s earliest form was not a writen word, it was a pictorial word as the ancient Egyptian used. The picture was of, a head of an ox, with a Shepard’s staff leaning into it.
Simple meaning the “POWER” we LEAN ON, AND TRUST IN. That power we lean on is the “one and Only” true God, just as the “man” JESUS DID.
The word God can be applied to anything you believe is power and you put your “faith and trust in”. So there can be many things that fit that description, as there are many so-called Gods, but unto us, (those called of God) there is but “ONE” “TRUE” GOD. just as scripture says,
John 17:3….And this eternal life, that they might know you “the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” and Jesus the anointed one, whom “you” have sent.
Anthony, this is what we (the true believers believe)
1 Titus 2:5……For there is “
ANTHONY. …..talk about endless genology and contoritions. The word, God , in it’s earliest form was not a writen “word”, it was a pictorial word as the ancient Egyptian used. The picture was of, a head of an ox, with a Shepard’s staff leaning into it.
Simple meaning the “POWER” we LEAN ON, AND TRUST IN. That power we (true believers) lean on is the “one and “Only” true God, just as the “man” JESUS DID. God is not a person it’s a relationship term , it describes “your” relationship with something, in that case anything can be a God to a person.
The word God can be applied to anything “you” believe is a power and you put your “faith and trust in”. So there can be many things that fit that description, as there are many so-called Gods, but unto us, (those called of God) there is but “ONE” “TRUE” GOD. just as scripture says,
John 17:3….And this eternal life, that they might know you “the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” and Jesus the anointed one, whom “you” have sent.
Anthony, this is what we (the true believers believe)
1 Titus 2:5……For there is “one” God, and “one” mediator, between (that “one”) God, and men , the “MAN” the anointed Jesus.
Anothny tell us whats so hard to understand about those scriptures?, You give these long explanation to avoid these simple truths, trying so hard to deny them, why not start believing what the scriptures and Jesus actually say for a change, and stop going into these endless explanations that corrupts scriptures and the truth of God and Jesus the anointed man.
Your teachings are full of coruptions of the simple truths, clearly written for us all in scriptures.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene
Thanks for your reply.
Is that all you got out of my post? I think it’s beyond you. Well Gene my long post was to accommodate Jodi not you, you should let your teaching reply, and stay away from things that’s beyond you Gene. Jesus Christ is called God in the New Testament, you just don’t believe it, Thomas doubted until he saw Jesus Christ and called Jesus Christ God. You make Jesus Christ out to be just a man. You actually twist scriptures and cherry pick scriptures for what you think your really not concerned about what scriptures say on there own. Don’t doubt be like Thomas believe, He called Jesus Christ God. Two the Father and Son are a family both have their own personality’s and we will be part of that family fulling after the resurrection, we now sit with Jesus Christ in heaven spiritually on His throne. No ye not that we will be gods.
Hi Anthony,
Moses was called a god too. Does that make him God? No
Sarah called Abraham lord. Does that mean she thought he was God? No
Maybe it’s just a Hebraism? Yes
Being the unique Son of God is by no means ordinary.
Anthony,
Scripture spells it out for you quite clearly,
Jeremiah 10:6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD (YHWH); thou art great, and thy name is great in might. 7 Who would not FEAR thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
Isaiah 2:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD (YHWH) shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD (YHWH): and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
There is NONE like YHWH, his NAME is GREAT in might. Jesus, the son of Jesse is only great, a mighty one, because YHWH (“our” heavenly Father, “our” as in Jesus’s Father and my Father) rested His Spirit upon him.
Luke 11:2 And he said unto them,When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy NAME. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
“O King of nations”
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Anthony, there is ONLY One TRUE God YHWH, He is the Father of Jesus and the Father of you, He is the God of Jesus and the God of you. All other gods such as Moses and Jesus are ONLY considered a god through having God’s Spirit rest upon them in order to fulfill the One True God YHWH’s will.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereofwe all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
The will of YHWH was to anoint a man to call him into righteousness to be a covenant for the people, that anointing made him full of grace and truth. IN that anointing he followed YHWH’s will, using YHWH’s powers to perform YHWH’s will.
Do you just forget all of that Anthony?
YHWH gave His powers to Jesus so that Jesus could perform YHWH’s will. What is YHWH’s will?.. that through Jesus we believe in YHWH, that through Jesus YHWH would bring mankind into having faith in Him, so that He could be ALL in ALL. One Spirit, YHWH’s Spirit, given to Jesus and given also to mankind, making us JOINT HEIRS with Christ, HEIRS of YHWH (the name of Jesus’s Father, and the name of our Father, the God of Jesus and the God of us all).
Gene,
You: TC…..We are joint heirs with Jesus, of “all things” we are one with God the Father and Jesus, just as it says as he was so are we. Jesus is not the Father, he is the Son a completely different person, apart from God, who God anointed with his Holy Spirit, just as he does us.
Me: NO Gene, just because the Son of God came later, that doesn’t mean he is not bonded as one person God. I had never once said that the Son is the Father. I said both of them together make up one God. I have said that the Father is the Godly aspect of the now one mind of God and that Jesus is the human aspect or mind. Followers have two minds, one human and one of the holy spirit that compose ONE mind. Similarly with followers, just because each has received a mind of the spirit, that doesn’t mean that each are two persons. God has one body, that of the human Messiah (Rev 21:22 and John 14:9). Christians on the other hand make an organizational body with the Messiah, not with the Father.
You: Your concept about Jesus not being bonded with God until he was resurected , dosen’t fly because scripture say he had the fullness of the spirit given him while he was on this earth. God the Father was in him according to him m while he c was on this earth as a flesh and blood human being. He even said he was bonded with the Father, saying me and the Father are one , while he was still on this earth.
Me: I have not once said that the Messiah had to wait until his resurrection in order to bond with the Father. I had always said that as the Messiah grew in the holy spirit he bonded closer and greater with his Father. I had said that the Messiah fully bonded with his Father as one at the resurrection and ascension into heaven.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet _____; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Me: The mind of the Messiah was not fully bonded with the mind of the Father as one until after the Messiah’s resurrection and glorifation.
Hi TWW
You said:Moses was called a god too. Does that make him God? No Sarah called Abraham lord. Does that mean she thought he was God? No maybe it’s just a Hebraism? Yes Being the unique Son of God is by no means ordinary
Me : yes you got that right Jesus Christ is far from ordinary, being the Only Begotten Son born of a virgin.
Now Moses was a ordinary man that had the authority of God. Born of a ordinary women with a human Father with sin.
God bless.
Gene:
You: So when he recieved the anointing of God’s Holy spirit, he became one with him and so do we. Jesus is refered to as a High priest, and so are we. A hight prexist represents God , but is not himself a deity or a God, right?
Me: NO, WRONG AGAIN! Show me the scripture that says the church members are all HIGH PRIEST.
Heb 10:21 And having an (me: ONE) high priest over the house of God;
Me: The church has ONE high priest. Never did ancient have more than ONE high priest at a time and neither do we. Only this high priest can be the mediator for us through his blood.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Me: The church will be priests under the one high priest, Christ. There is no place in scripture where the church members are each high priests. We become priests under Christ to the second fruits of salvation. Heb 1:6 says we become priests, not high priests. Jesus is higher than we are. He is the only true Son of God.You: A high priest represents God , but is not himself a deity or a God, right?
Me: WRONG: A high priest represents the saints now and those of the second harvest later. He is like a defense attorney that pleads his blood to our Father as atonement for our sins. He rebuffs the devil that accuses us.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,…
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