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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,07:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,07:06) HiW,
To blaspheme the Spirit is more serious than to blaspheme Christ-Jesus told us.
That is because the Spirit ever proceeds from God.
Christ has proceeded as a lesser Son.This indicates that any equal trinity theory cannot be true.
The Father loves the firstbegotten Son and sent him into the world.
No NH!To blaspheme the Holy Ghost is serious because the Spirit is God, and it is the Spirit which draws all men to Christ!
Without Jesus there is no forgiveness!
Hi W,
So why is it different with the Son of God?
I thought you said he is God too?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,07:24) NH You say…
Quote
Christ has proceeded as a lesser Son.Where is this written NH?
Hi W,
Christ told us the Father was greater than him and I believe him.
Listen to Peter,” You are the Christ, the SON of the living God.”
Jesus approved of this answer so it would be a better one for you too.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,09:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,07:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,07:06) HiW,
To blaspheme the Spirit is more serious than to blaspheme Christ-Jesus told us.
That is because the Spirit ever proceeds from God.
Christ has proceeded as a lesser Son.This indicates that any equal trinity theory cannot be true.
The Father loves the firstbegotten Son and sent him into the world.
No NH!To blaspheme the Holy Ghost is serious because the Spirit is God, and it is the Spirit which draws all men to Christ!
Without Jesus there is no forgiveness!
Hi W,
So why is it different with the Son of God?
I thought you said he is God too?
NHIsnt that what I just said!
If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!
Jude 1:25
*To the only wise God our Saviour*, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.There is only one Savior NH!
Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? *and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me*.Did God change his mind?
Dont forget he was the one pierced in Zech 12, and the one spoken of John in Isa 6., and the one whos feet shall stand on the mount of Olives. He He, Olives, I like that name.
Without the ONE Spirit you could not come to Jesus who is the Word/God in the flesh, the Lord from heaven, YHWY, the “Only Savour”.
No forgiveness without YHWH, the Lord our God!
Ask Thomas.
Hi w,
You say
“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!”
We are not speaking of ACCESS here but blasphemy.
Jesus said it was different in respect to the Spirit of God and himself.
Why?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,09:34) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,07:24) NH You say…
Quote
Christ has proceeded as a lesser Son.Where is this written NH?
Hi W,
Christ told us the Father was greater than him and I believe him.
Listen to Peter,” You are the Christ, the SON of the living God.”
Jesus approved of this answer so it would be a better one for you too.
NHThere is no disunity in the Godhead.
Jesus submits willingly to the Father and the “Comforter” which is the Holy Spirit he is subservient to the Son!
Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)But the Spirit is still God, is he not NH?
One God, Three Persons, One Spirit!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,11:04) Hi w,
You say
“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!”
We are not speaking of ACCESS here but blasphemy.
Jesus said it was different in respect to the Spirit of God and himself.
Why?
NHI just explained why.
So you tell me why?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,07:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,07:06) HiW,
To blaspheme the Spirit is more serious than to blaspheme Christ-Jesus told us.
That is because the Spirit ever proceeds from God.
Christ has proceeded as a lesser Son.This indicates that any equal trinity theory cannot be true.
The Father loves the firstbegotten Son and sent him into the world.
No NH!To blaspheme the Holy Ghost is serious because the Spirit is God, and it is the Spirit which draws all men to Christ!
Without Jesus there is no forgiveness!
What? The Spirit is God? Then what Spirit is God in?Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
The Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father. And we (If you are a child of the Father) are in THEM.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all “one in Christ Jesus”. If you are a child of God.
We are one in Christ who is One with the Father.
Jesus is our elder brother in the Father. We (if you are born again) are children of God having the same Spirit as Jesus.
We are one with Jesus.
Jesus is one with the Father who is Spirit, John 4:24.
How many Spirits are their? OR how many God's are their?
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
There is but one Spirit who is “God” Remember God is not a name it is a title. Is Jesus God? Jesus is one with the Father who is God. Are we God? Well we are one with God because we are one with Christ.
Everyone born of God is in God the Spirit.
GOD ALL IN ALL!But what is the Holy Spirit. Their is but one Spirit. The Holy Spirit who according to scripture IS God.
The Harlot's doctrine states that God is three persons in one.
One what? SPIRIT?
The Father (Spirit John 4:24) Son (who is one with the Spirit) and then their is somehow another spirit according to the Harlot.
WHO is this spirit?
We have and scripture says that their is one Spirit and God is that Spirit.
So again I ask what spirit is the SPIRIT (GOD) in.Three IN one. Does that or not include the Holy Spirit?
IHN&L'
Ken
worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Hi W,
You said“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!'
But this is theological gibberish.
God as Spirit is greater than ChristQuote The Father (Spirit John 4:24) Son (who is one with the Spirit) and then their is somehow another spirit according to the Harlot.
WHO is this spirit?
We have and scripture says that their is one Spirit and God is that Spirit.
So again I ask what spirit is the SPIRIT (GOD) in.Three IN one. Does that or not include the Holy Spirit?
IHN&L'
K
The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit.
One spirit.
Now who is this “person”, “Comforter”, Spirit of Truth, Jesus talks about that the Father and Jesus will send?
The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)You obviously use a lot of white out, or are these pages missing in your bible?
K. You are purposely ignoring these scriptures.
What are you afraid of? Why dont you address them?
According to Jesus words is there “Another” or not?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,11:49) Hi W,
You said“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!'
But this is theological gibberish.
God as Spirit is greater than Christ
NH“Blaspheme” Greek…’blasphemeo’
1) to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme
2) to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed atNH
Are you saying that men cant Blaspheme The Father or the Son?
You are making inference again if you say that the Spirit is greater than the Son because of Blasphemy!
I know you like to think this disproves the Trinity but you are mistaken.
For again Jesus is greater than the Spirit for he sends the Spirit. Isnt that what you believe Jesus means when he says…
Jn 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom *I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus, who is greater?)I know you would like to think that what Jesus is saying is the servant is less a human than the one who is over him, but servitude dosnt mean one is greater in being!
The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are One God and each person in this One God has a role.
Check it out…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Does this mean Jesus is greater than the Spirit?
Hi W,
You say
“The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”. “
It is a pity the Word does not directly support your doctrine.
You stand alone.Psa 31:5 Into Thy hand I commit my spirit, Thou hast redeemed me, Jehovah God of truth.
Psa 143:10 Teach me to do Thy good pleasure, For Thou art my God–Thy Spirit is good, Lead me into a land of uprightness.
Quote The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit. Then that's two spirits.
You say The Holy Spirit is Spirit JUST AS THE FATHER IS SPIRIT.
The Holy Spirit is Spirit and the Father is Spirit. You are saying they are not the same Spirit but are two Spirits.The Father who is Spirit has another Spirit who has no name even though you say that this extra spirit is a separate person.
God is not a God of confusion.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Who is the author of confusion. This confusion of a three person God and the confusion of the Sabbath.
Wake up and come out of this confusion of the Harlot who is married to Satan.
IHN&L,
KenWhat is this Spirits name …Hey you! The same as the third separate person of the Trinity. That's even more confusion when you say hey you both will answer
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,11:49) Hi W,
You said“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!'
But this is theological gibberish.
God as Spirit is greater than Christ
NH“Blaspheme” Greek…’blasphemeo’
1) to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme
2) to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed atNH
Are you saying that men cant Blaspheme The Father or the Son?
You are making inference again if you say that the Spirit is greater than the Son because of Blasphemy!
I know you like to think this disproves the Trinity but you are mistaken.
For again Jesus is greater than the Spirit for he sends the Spirit. Isnt that what you believe Jesus means when he says…
Jn 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom *I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus, who is greater?)I know you would like to think that what Jesus is saying is the servant is less a human than the one who is over him, but servitude dosnt mean one is greater in being!
The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are One God and each person in this One God has a role.
Check it out…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Does this mean Jesus is greater than the Spirit?
Hi W,
The Spirit was GIVEN to Christ.
God gives without repentance.
The Spirit given to Christ was the Spirit GIVEN by Christ to his Body on earth-it could not be GIVEN till he ascended.
But the treasure within his blessed vessel was always greater than the vessel itself.
He was only the Son of God and the Spirit is of God, Who he told us was greater than he is.
So with us we have this great treasure in earthen vessels.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,11:54) Quote The Father (Spirit John 4:24) Son (who is one with the Spirit) and then their is somehow another spirit according to the Harlot.
WHO is this spirit?
We have and scripture says that their is one Spirit and God is that Spirit.
So again I ask what spirit is the SPIRIT (GOD) in.Three IN one. Does that or not include the Holy Spirit?
IHN&L'
K
The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit.
One spirit.
Now who is this “person”, “Comforter”, Spirit of Truth, Jesus talks about that the Father and Jesus will send?
The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)You obviously use a lot of white out, or are these pages missing in your bible?
K. You are purposely ignoring these scriptures.
What are you afraid of? Why dont you address them?
According to Jesus words is there “Another” or not?
I don't know is the comforter yet another spirit Just how many spirits are their?
The Holy Spirit is a person that comes from the Father?
Doesn't scripture say there is one spirit
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,04:52) Kenrch You say…
Quote
Just what exactly do you believe?
I know some how you and others have taken the Trinity doctrine and twisted it so it would at least LOOK true.What holds the three together WJ?
Three in one. One what?
Is God a Spirit?
There is one God and one Spirit. God is that Spirit.
Jesus is in that Spirit. The apostles were in that Spirit. All of God's children are in that Spirit.
Okay, lets say there is no third person “Comforter” as you say. Then please explain to me if Jesus is in the Fathers Spirit and his Spirit fills everything then that means we have the Spirit of Jesus and the Fathers Spirit right?
1=1=2 Spirits.
There is One Spirit.
Listen to these words again…
Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.Do you see anything in those scriptures that says there is more than One Spirit? The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God! Do you see that?
Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.One Spirit, not 2 the Spirit of “the Father” and “The Spirit of the Son”?
Unfortunatly for you K, even if you say there is no third person, “Comforter”, you still have to conclude if Gods Spirit as you say is God and there is only one Spirit then that makes Jesus God.
Cry harlot if you want. The proof is here in the scriptures.
1 Cor 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the *selfsame Spirit*, dividing to every man severally as he will.Paul says here the Spirit is the same.
Now you see both Jesus and the Father living in us by that one Spirit…
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?The Spirit is in us but do we live in one another? Are we Omnipresent like Christ who is present with each one of us by the Spirit that dwells in us?
You say..
Quote Truly you are blinded by your god the Harlot. 2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, “who is the image of God”, should shine unto them.
Why do you keep Sunday WJ? Isn't it because the Harlot tells you too! You obey man instead of God.
This is what poiticians do. When they are loosing a race they resort to name calling. K because you say it is not so dosnt make it so. Same stands true for me. However I have thrown the challenge out with many scriptures backing up what I say, and you have not given answer to my questions.
Your patronizing here is uncalled for. You don’t even know if I go to church!
I hope you can sincerely answer my questions!
It would be the Christ like thing to do rather than name calling and patronizing!
Blessings
No we have the Holy Spirit who is one with Jesus. Just as the apostles had the Holy Spirit. And all God's children have the holy spirit.GOD ALL IN ALL!
Quote (kenrch @ June 06 2007,13:07) Quote The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit. Then that's two spirits.
You say The Holy Spirit is Spirit JUST AS THE FATHER IS SPIRIT.
The Holy Spirit is Spirit and the Father is Spirit. You are saying they are not the same Spirit but are two Spirits.The Father who is Spirit has another Spirit who has no name even though you say that this extra spirit is a separate person.
God is not a God of confusion.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Who is the author of confusion. This confusion of a three person God and the confusion of the Sabbath.
Wake up and come out of this confusion of the Harlot who is married to Satan.
IHN&L,
Ken
KMisrepresentation!
I Said…
The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit.
One spirit.
Now who is this “person”, “Comforter”, Spirit of Truth, Jesus talks about that the Father and Jesus will send?
One Spirit, Three persons, One God!
You still refuse to comment on the words of Jesus!
Instead you create confusion with your misrepresentations.
The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Who is this person that is subservient to the Son?
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