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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:48) God is not the author of confusion. Why would he give us scriptures that *seem* not to make sense? Shouldn't we interpret those scriptures with the scriptures that are clear? Scriptures that show the holy Spirit is WHO God is and not a third person: 1 Cor. 2:10-12
If my statements are logical, then I will rest tonight knowing I am not out of my mind to think the things I do…… Because if the Trinity is truth, then I want the Trinity. But if the Trinity keeps attacking my ability to reason scripture out, and my ability to make use of language and it's definitions, then I'm not sure what to do with the teaching? My mind wants to throw it out.
Without faith it is impossible to please God – I know this. But without your intellect and heart for understanding….it would seem impossible to seek him out and truly know him?
not3Again, the scriptures do not create confusion, the confusion comes when men dont accept all of them and create doctrines based on a few.
Yes it is by faith we accept the word of God for what it says and ask the Spirit of truth to show us the truth.
Do we have to understand everything about the nature of an infinite God.
No. But if we believe the scriptures as being Gods word to us, then we should cast aside our understanding and trust the scriptures!
Just MHO!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:50) WJ, you are correct in that the Trinity does seem to reconcile the problems with certain scriptures…….but I'm not looking for a cure for the problems…….I'm looking for the truth of it all.
not3And I am praying for you as well as others and myself to come to a greater understanding of the truth!
Blessings!
*A challenge for the Unitarians, Henotheist, and Arians*
Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians?
How do you explain the following scriptures?
1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;II Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.We see many scriptures that show that Jesus – The Spirit of God – The Spirit of Christ – God – The Father – Spirit of him – The Spirit – His Spirit – Comforter – Holy Spirit that are terms being used interchangeably in speaking of *God dwelling in our Body* the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit or the Temple of Christ.
Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.Now we see a few of the terms I mentioned earlier in Rom 8:9,10,11. A close look at these scriptures shows Paul uses the terms interchangeably to describe the “One Spirit” or the “One God”.
They are all living within us by the one Spirit which we call the Spirit of christ the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit!
Look and see!
*Father*
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, *I will dwell in them, and walk in them*; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.*Son*.
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?*Holy Spirit*.
I Cor 6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the *Holy Ghost which is in you*, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.Jn 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Jn 16:
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.These words are interchageable and mean one thing.
There is “One Spirit” “Three Persons” “One God”.
kenrch You say…
Quote There is one Spirit but the Trinity doctrine says that their are three in one. So what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in Correct me if I am wrong. You believe the Father and the Son are the One Spirit! If not then how many are there? 2?
If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture…
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*.Is this the “Spirit of Christ” or The Spirit of God”?
Does the Father cry Father?
The three persons the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are divinely and unequelly and wonderfully joined together as ONE!
Whether it is speaking of the Father who walks in us or the Son or the Holy Spirit…
These three are “One Spirit”.
Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in *the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:
20 Teaching them *to observe all things* whatsoever I have commanded you: and, *lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen..HMMM! Jesus who has all power in heaven and earth is gonna be with us (omnipresent) to the end of the world.
Definatly an attribute of God and not a mere man, wouldnt you say?
Now the questions?
When you recieved Christ into your heart, how many Spirits did you recieve?
Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?
If not please explain!
Hi W,
You say
“HMMM! Jesus who has all power in heaven and earth is gonna be with us (omnipresent) to the end of the world.”
Before you fly away on another fantasy it it really a surprise that the head is going to remain with the arm and the leg and the finger and the toe of his body?WJ,
Let me try to explain.
All God's children have the Holy Spirit that includes the first begotten our elder Brother Jesus. When you receive the Holy Spirit we receive Jesus who is in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is in the Father the Holy Spirit for God is a Spirit. We should be one in that same Spirit.
When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive the spirit of Christ who is one with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 17:10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Father (who is Spirit John 4:24) is in Jesus. and Jesus is in the Father the Holy Spirit. WE (Jesus' prayer) are in the Father and Son because the Father and Son are one.
Actually when we receive the Holy Spirit we become part of each other in the Holy Spirit~GOD~.
So we have the Son of Man one with God the Holy Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
The only part of us that will make heaven is that part of us that is one with God Who is the Holy Spirit.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.
If the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trinity and all are in one Spirit; then what spirit is the Holy Spirit IN?
Scripture says there is only one Spirit. The Trinity doctrine states three in one. What is the one?
All are in the Holy Spirit. Not the Holy Spirit in a spirit.
If this is true then let it be true and accept it. My prayer is that we ARE one.
IHN&L,
Ken
Just TOO simple
Why have a doctrine that is says the Holy Spirit is in the Holy Spirit? Scripture says there is one Spirit. Yes we His children like Jesus have a spirit but it's not the Holy Spirit. We are in the Holy Spirit And the Holy Spirit should be in us. There is no other spirit for the Holy Spirit to be in! But if you have three in one as the Harlot teaches and deceives the whole world (Rev.12:9) then you must have the Holy Spirit in another spirit. Where is such a scripture?
If their are three then there is Jesus, we His brethren, and the Father WHO IS SPIRIT. But the Father is not in Himself.
If you want to get technical then there are many in the Holy Spirit. God is not in all yet. But when the end of this age has finally come then God will be all in all. How can God be all in all? Because God is a Spirit the Holy Spirit .
Again if this is true then LET it be true and let us move on. IMHO I find the Trinity doctrine is a hindrance, a stumbling block, to keep the children of God CHILDREN!
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:13) If the spirit of God is a unique and separate person, and having “spirit” is prerequisite to having a unique and separate personality, then the person called “the Spirit of God” must have his own “spirit” peculiar to himself and distinct from the Father and Son? Wouldn't we then be forced to the absurd belief in “the spirit of the Spirit”? If “the Holy Spirit” has no spirit of His own, then He could not be said to have a separate “personality.” If “God” is three co-equal persons, the third person can no more be “the spirit” of the first person, than the first person can be “the spirit” of the third person. To avoid this, “the spirit of God” cannot have a separate personality, but must be the power, influence, sufficiency, fullness, or some extension of the Father, the real and unitary person called the One true God.'
Right?
Right!But there are many in the Holy Spirit, NOW and there will be at the end of this age MORE for God will be all in all!
Right?
Quote (kenrch @ June 05 2007,00:35) WJ, Let me try to explain.
All God's children have the Holy Spirit that includes the first begotten our elder Brother Jesus. When you receive the Holy Spirit we receive Jesus who is in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is in the Father the Holy Spirit for God is a Spirit. We should be one in that same Spirit.
When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive the spirit of Christ who is one with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 17:10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Father (who is Spirit John 4:24) is in Jesus. and Jesus is in the Father the Holy Spirit. WE (Jesus' prayer) are in the Father and Son because the Father and Son are one.
Actually when we receive the Holy Spirit we become part of each other in the Holy Spirit~GOD~.
So we have the Son of Man one with God the Holy Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
The only part of us that will make heaven is that part of us that is one with God Who is the Holy Spirit.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.
If the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trinity and all are in one Spirit; then what spirit is the Holy Spirit IN?
Scripture says there is only one Spirit. The Trinity doctrine states three in one. What is the one?
All are in the Holy Spirit. Not the Holy Spirit in a spirit.
If this is true then let it be true and accept it. My prayer is that we ARE one.
IHN&L,
Ken
KenrchAgain, your implication is there is more than “One Spirit”.
Jesus spirit in the Holy Spirit which you say is the Fathers personal spirit.
Jesus Spirit and Holy Spirit is 2 Spirits!
There is no scripture that states this.
Look at these scriptures…
Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.Now we see most of the terms I mentioned earlier in Rom 8:9,10,11. A close look at these scriptures shows Paul uses the terms interchangeably to describe the “One Spirit”.
Here we see Paul speaking of The Spirit is, “the Spirit of God” “The Spirit of Christ” “The Spirit of Him” “His Spirit” all in the same breath.
To Paul there is three persons but “One Spirit”!
You say…
Quote If the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trinity and all are in one Spirit; then what spirit is the Holy Spirit IN? Scripture says there is only one Spirit. The Trinity doctrine states three in one. What is the one?
You are totally ignoring the scriptures that prove that the Comforter is a third person.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Taking all the scriptures I have shown can only be seen in a Trinitarian light, unless you can show me another way to interpret these!
Blessings
Quote (kenrch @ June 05 2007,01:00) Just TOO simple Why have a doctrine that is says the Holy Spirit is in the Holy Spirit? Scripture says there is one Spirit. Yes we His children like Jesus have a spirit but it's not the Holy Spirit. We are in the Holy Spirit And the Holy Spirit should be in us. There is no other spirit for the Holy Spirit to be in! But if you have three in one as the Harlot teaches and deceives the whole world (Rev.12:9) then you must have the Holy Spirit in another spirit. Where is such a scripture?
If their are three then there is Jesus, we His brethren, and the Father WHO IS SPIRIT. But the Father is not in Himself.
If you want to get technical then there are many in the Holy Spirit. God is not in all yet. But when the end of this age has finally come then God will be all in all. How can God be all in all? Because God is a Spirit the Holy Spirit .
Again if this is true then LET it be true and let us move on. IMHO I find the Trinity doctrine is a hindrance, a stumbling block, to keep the children of God CHILDREN!
IHN&L,
Ken
KenrchYou say there is “One Spirit” But you say Jesus is in the Spirit.
Yet Jesus Spirit is in us.
1 Cor 12:11
But all these worketh that *one and the selfsame Spirit*, dividing to every man severally as he will.If this One Spirit is only the Fathers Spirit then why would Paul and Jesus and John and the Apostles call him Comforter, Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Etc ?
Why would they Just not say the Fathers Spirit?
You say…
Quote If you want to get technical then there are many in the Holy Spirit. God is not in all yet. But when the end of this age has finally come then God will be all in all. How can God be all in all? Because God is a Spirit the Holy Spirit . Yes, but if Jesus Spirit is “Human” then how can he dwell in millions of believers. we ar in Gods Spirit but we dont dwell in one another, not to mention Jesus is Omnipresent!
Quote (kenrch @ June 05 2007,05:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:13) If the spirit of God is a unique and separate person, and having “spirit” is prerequisite to having a unique and separate personality, then the person called “the Spirit of God” must have his own “spirit” peculiar to himself and distinct from the Father and Son? Wouldn't we then be forced to the absurd belief in “the spirit of the Spirit”? If “the Holy Spirit” has no spirit of His own, then He could not be said to have a separate “personality.” If “God” is three co-equal persons, the third person can no more be “the spirit” of the first person, than the first person can be “the spirit” of the third person. To avoid this, “the spirit of God” cannot have a separate personality, but must be the power, influence, sufficiency, fullness, or some extension of the Father, the real and unitary person called the One true God.'
Right?
Right!But there are many in the Holy Spirit, NOW and there will be at the end of this age MORE for God will be all in all!
Right?
KenrchEph 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph 1:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.Here we see both the Father and the Son filling all in all!
How is this?
By the selfsame Spirit!
One God, Three persons, One Spirit!
Hi W,
Quite so,
Till the last line which includes a human doctrinal addition.
“One God, THREE persons, One Spirit!”
That ONE SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD, not another person.
That is silly.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,07:24) Hi W,
Quite so,
Till the last line which includes a human doctrinal addition.
“One God, THREE persons, One Spirit!”
That ONE SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD, not another person.
That is silly.
NHThe scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)How do you explain this! Who is this person Jesus speaks of?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,08:21) Hi W,
Where is the Spirit of God referred to as another person?
NHThe JWS also believe the Holy Spirit is an impersonal Spirit also.
I see you have alighned yourself with them, the modern day Arians!
Hi W,
Is the Holy Spirit of God also another person from God
and the one Spirit that unites us in Christ to God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,09:33) Hi W,
Is the Holy Spirit of God also another person from God
and the one Spirit that unites us in Christ to God?
NHThe scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Jesus thinks so how about you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,10:11) Hi W,
I looked and looked but the word PERSON was not written there.
Should we just infer it?
NHTake yoiur henotheistic and Arian glasses off!
Who is the one spoken of here…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.) Hi W,
I can see how you infer these things.
But you do not expect us to take them seriously if they are not written surely?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,10:32) Hi W,
I can see how you infer these things.
But you do not expect us to take them seriously if they are not written surely?
NHThey are staring you in the face and refuse to believe them.
That white out you have works pretty good, because obviously the words of the master here means nothing to you!
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Zech 7:11
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
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