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I have my belief regarding this and of course I am not only open to correction, but open to sharing my view too.
Body = Physical vessel for a physical world. Or spiritual vessel for the spirtual realm.
Soul = self, mind, identity.
Spirit of man = God's Spirit or breath that makes the soul live and then the body is activated by reason of the mind. The Spirit with measure.
Spirit of God = The part of God that we are connected to, (not everyone has this union). Our spirit which gives us life, is connected to God's Spirit which gives us eternal life. The Spirit without measure.
When a man dies, his spirit goes back to God who gave it. The body decays in the ground and the soul awaits the resurrection. E.g., souls under the altar of God in Revelation.
At the resurrection the righteous soul is given a glorious and eternal body.However I am unsure as to the spirit going back to God who gave it. This was certainly true before the cross, but it does appear that the dead, or some of the dead were raised up after Christ was raised. So I am unsure as to the status of those who die in the Lord. Do we sleep or are we where Christ is now? I realise that the last question is already part of another discussion and so any answers should go there.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=1;t=35
Anyway the Holy Spirit gives me eternal life as I am connected to God or one with him. Just as God cannot die, we who are one with God cannot die either.
Quote … E.g., souls under the altar of God in Revelation…but it does appear that the dead, or some of the dead were raised up after Christ was raised. I think that most people forget that John's vision in Revelation takes place sometimes in the (possibly far) distance. Also, those bodies of the saints that rose up from the graves and were seen by many were merely signs to prove that Jesus really was the Son of God. I am sure that they were just temporarily 'disturbed' and immediately went back to sleep to await the resurrection. I think that this was similar to the tongues of fire that sat upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. Do you know of any incidences of this happening to anyone who has been filled with the Holy Ghost. I had a tongues experience (I sang in French as the Spirit uttered) but as far as I know, there were no tongues of fire. These were one time events designed to spur on the advancement of the kingdom but should not be regarded as precedents.
Quote Anyway the Holy Spirit gives me eternal life as I am connected to God or one with him. Just as God cannot die, we who are one with God cannot die either. Amen and glory to that! Thank God that we're not being tested and graded for accurate knowledge. Faith is so much easier than knowing.
Hi t8 and bic,
The apostles received the Spirit of God before they were baptised in that Spirit.Jn 20.19
” So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them
'Peace be with you'
And when he had said this, he showed them both his hands and his side.The disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord. So Jesus said to them again
'Peace be with you;as the Father has sent me I also send you. And when he had said this he breathed on them and said to them
'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them;if you retain the sins of any they have been retained'”I would have thought that was the 'Spirit with measure', the Spirit of Jesus, which remains in connection with God and Jesus, rather than our natural spirit which is given away to us from God.
Then Luke 24.48f
” And behold I am sending forth the promise of my Father upon you;but you are to stay in the city until you are CLOTHED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH.
And he led them out as far as Bethany, and he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them he parted from them and was carried up into heaven”Then the baptism in the Spirit.
Acts 2.4
” And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance”Bic it took many times of prayer with me till tongues were manifest, because my mind ruled me perhaps. Now I find tongues a great help under stress. I know someone who said the 'Our Father” in Maori when they were prayed over astounding a Maori who was present.
It is interesting that the Luke scripture says Jesus was “carried” away? by angels?
Knowledge is necessary but only to a certain level. Hebrews 6 1-2 is that basic information and the indwelling Spirit imparted should take over from there.
1Jn 2.27
” As for you the anointing which you have received from him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you;but as his anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him”The ministry of forgiveness given by Jesus in Jn 20 applies generally to the administration of God's forgiveness in water baptism with repentance I would have thought as there is no recorded event of it being done in any other way?
Hi,
Evangelion and his false church teaches that the Holy Spirit can be divided and this is a wrong teaching. He teaches that the Holy Spirit now is manifest without the gifts, which he says were withdrawn after the first century.Scripture teaches, in fact, that the gifts of the Spirit are the evidence of that Spirit.[Mk 16.16f.1Cor 12.7-12]The Spirit of Christ, which we in his body share, is forever a Spirit of Power. God works within his body to still heal and teach and set free those who have fallen under the power of the Evil one.
By denying the reality of Satan his church has also taken away from the bible including the words of the Book of Revelation. Those that do so do not enjoy God's favour but are at risk of his wrath.
2Tim 3.5
“..holding to a form of godliness ;although they have denied it's power; and avoid such men as these”Hi Evangelion:
Here is a story of healing that happened to a member of my family, to which I was an eye witness.
A child in my family suffered severe multiple skull fractures and multiple internal injuries that rendered him paralyzed, blind, deaf etc. He even lost his ability to eat/swallow and lost all reflexes. He suffered seizures almost constantly. For this reason the doctors put him on Dilantin (antiseizure medication) but it did not help. He was not in a coma but had lost his level of awareness. This child, Malachi, was a victim of child abuse. His mom left him to a roommate to babysit who admitted to beating him in order to make him stop crying. It was a story in the nightly news and newspapers.
That Malachi did not die outright was in itself a miracle. I was sitting at his bedside in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit when reporters came in disguise. It was from them that I learned that the one who hurt our boy had ten years earlier killed another child in the same manner. This child died primarily due to the severing of his intestines. This child abuser was sentenced to prison after Malachi's abuse – I never met him. (A few years later, I worked in prison and among the one's I had to make a special effort to love, were those of this group but God helped me even with that).
Well, as a christian and particularly one who believes in the promises of God and his Christ, I naturally entered into prayer. I also notified members of my church to intercede on our behalf. There was really nothing the physicians could do, it was that serious.
I took time off from work and was at the bedside all day, praying over him, and holding him. Within days, he was moved to the regular peds ward, directly facing the nursing station. Within about two days, he was moved to the farthest end of the unit/ward where it's a good thing I was there, because it was so isolated I feared they wouldn't have heard him if he cried. Around this time, his swallowing miraculously returned. It sent one of the physicians running down the hall with sheer joy. His sight, hearing and ability to stand when held returned. In less than a week or so, he was transferred to a long term facility as there was nothing they could do medically at the hospital. He continued to have seizures, was totally uncoordinated and could not hold a simple thing like a ball. His brain could not work with it. He was undone, but coming together again.
At the long term facility I saw many other children who had been there for years, living but without any pronounced sense of awareness, and our boy was one of them. We continued to pray fervently and were encouraged by his progress, as were the personnel over there. I asked the chief neurologist to take him off the Dilantin because it was affecting his gums but they were afraid to. She said they'd give him about another month and take him off if no progress is noted. No progress was noted so they took him off. I was inspired to try something with him one day: I held a string to his hand…the way you would do a kitten, and slowly pulling the string away, he for the first time attempted to reach for the string. He was cured of that. And so it went, one leap after another. The seizures stopped.
The physical therapist would put him on this large ball, to get him to exercise or grasp but he wasn't interested and didn't want to be bothered. Or couldn't. He couldn't sit upright without support, like a newborn. He definitely couldn't bear his own weight or stand without support.
But he was completely healed physically and sent home in six months. Unfortunately, he left all the other children there in much the same way and that was heart breaking. But his progress was so encouraging to the staff and other parents that we saw a change for the better while we were there.
We continued to pray for his mental development and emotional wellbeing. We sort to visit with him as often as possible. Several days a week he lived with me and my husband. One day he just got up and walked from the kitchen to the bedroom. Shocking. No crawling etc. For about a year, his eyes would light up but he never laughed or smiled, he didn't talk or try to. One day, while sitting in a restaurant in New Jersey, I can't remember what started it, but he burst out laughing and oh, the sparkle of his laughter…the beauty of it. It was priceless.
He is in the third grade now and 8 years old, living with his mom in another state so I don't get to see him as much; he says that math and science are his favorite subjects, social studies his least favorite. He is lacking in nothing compared to all children his age. He is manifestation of the gift of the holy spirit of God, and God gets all the glory for wholly healing him.
I know for a fact that he was under medical supervision but the doctors and many people could not help him in this case. They loved and cared for him and so have a special place in our hearts.
Thank you cubes,
How many miracles did Jesus do in Nazareth? He was almost disempowered by the unbelief in that town. How can this generation expect miracles with the same attitude? It sounds like the Pharisees asking for a sign or Thomas needing to put his hand into the wounds of Jesus.
The lack is not in God but in us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2005,06:31) Thank you cubes,
How many miracles did Jesus do in Nazareth? He was almost disempowered by the unbelief in that town. How can this generation expect miracles with the same attitude? It sounds like the Pharisees asking for a sign or Thomas needing to put his hand into the wounds of Jesus.
The lack is not in God but in us.
True, Nick.God is certainly able and desires to give us all that is good.
Hi cubes
Lk 4.25 Jesus said in Nazareth
” Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his hometown. But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months, when a great famine came over the land;and yet Elijah was sent to none of them , but onoly to a woman in Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. There were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian”When we read of the miracles of the OT it seems they were amazing but God is putting things in perspective here through his Son. They were relatively few and He could have done much more if only there was faith and men sought His help.
It is the same in a way with Yeshua. His life on earth rated little in world events in historical terms. He barely rates a mention in the eyes of historians like Josephus. And he could have done so much more too if only he had been recognised for who he was.
“You do not have because you do not ask”
Nick,
Quote Luke 4
24“I tell you the truth,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah's time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27And there were many in Israel with leprosy[f] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed–only Naaman the Syrian.”28All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.
I have a challenge for you. Can you tell me why the people were furious with what Jesus said?
Ok MM,
thanks for the challenge.
My take is:
He revealed his ministry in Nazareth
Lk 4.16f
” And he came to Nazareth , where he had been brought up; and as was his custom he entered the Synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read. And the book of Isaiah was handed to him. And he opened the book and found the place where it was written.
'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me..'..
And he began to say to them
' Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing'
And all were speaking well of him and wondering at the gracious words which were falling from his lips and they were saying
'Is this not Joseph's son?'
And he said to them
'No doubt you will quote this proverb to me
'Physician heal thyself! Whatever we heard was done at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well”This was the ultimate confrontation. He challenged them to put the evidence of their ears ahead of their mind's observations.He made them choose and it did not take long.
Jesus they knew as the son of Joseph. They had watched him grow up and saw nothing unusual in him then. If he claimed to be special they had no evidence from his upbringing to prove that.[Is 53 1-3]
Perhaps,even, he was physically disabled as he suggested he needed healing himself. They knew his parents and his siblings and they were ordinary folk.
“Faith comes by hearing” but they preferred not only to ignore their ears but were so convinced he was not whom he claimed to be they felt angry enough to want to kill him.
Such is the power of the natural mind and it's diificulty grasping the Spirit of God that all morals can be put aside in it's defence because of unbelief. As soon as they said” is this not Joseph's son' doubt, pride and unbelief ruled them, faith died and murder took over.
They preferred the voice of the prince of this world, who was a murderer from the beginning.
Nick,
Thats quite an eloborate answer! The reason however is a little more simple than that though. Both Zarephath and Naaman were gentiles! This truth would have infuriated the Jewish listeners who prejudiciously claimed God's favour (as manifested by miracles etc) as theirs exlusively.
Hi MM.
I agree with your view too [though Zerephath was a place]. That added to their discomfort too that he challenged them that gentiles had the faith required to release God's blessings more so than the chosen people.sorry, I meant a widow in Zarephath
Hi MM,
Jealousy is the most potent force for harm in humankind as shown by the murder of Abel. It is universal. It is subtle, often not recognised by it's owner and underlies all sorts of conflicts. It destroys marriages, families and societies and leads often to murder.But God uses it as with Jesus in Nazareth to expose sinful attitudes so that we have a chance to see what we are made of and repent.
Also Paul used it
Rom 11.13
” But I am speaking to you who are gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of gentiles I magnify my ministry, if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them”ps
Pr 6.34
” For jealousy enrages a man, and he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will not accept any ransom, nor will he be satisfied though you give many gifts”
Pr 27.4
” Wrath is fierce and anger is a flood, but who can stand before jealousy?”The Holy Spirit is not another person of the Godhead its actually the divine Character of the Father in Heaven. Just like in real life we have children we impart to our offspring our own character they are our children with our character. The Father in Heaven does the same. He uses the incorruptible seed which is the Word of God to reproduce offpspring. The Holy Spirit is that character and divine nature that gets manifested in those that become Born Again. The Godhead consists of the Father, the Son and rest of the Children of God. This is the heart of the Gospel message that through Jesus Christ one can be born into the Kingdom of Heaven. What is a Kingdom? – Its a ruling Family! This is the Good Message (Gospel). Jesus Christ is the first begotten into that Family. Now Baptism is a mystery to many as well as it was to me. If your a student of the Bible and have been for sometime you will realize the importance of former types. This is the fact that things that happened formerly represent things that came later – an example is the Tent of the Congregation which was a former type of the Church of God 12 patriarchs (Israel) as a former type of the Apostles. Now its usually clear to find those types by looking for the former in the Old Testament and finding the later in the New Testament. However, when Christ came he was fullfilling former and later types at the same time. One of these was the act of baptism. John the Baptism baptized with water. But the pure water is the Holy Spirit. Is wasn't until later that the Apostles began to understand this. Water baptism was a former type. We shouldn't be looking for some strange miracle or event that occurred on Pentacost. Its truely an act of believing and doing. Test yourselves whether you have that Spirit.
Paul
Hi tt,
What does “godhead “mean to you?Are you saying the baptism in water by the apostles was done out of ignorance and they should have known only the baptism in the Holy Spirit is necessary?
Godhead to me means the Royal Family of God. Its the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Children of God. The Holy Spirit is the divine character of the Father that binds them all.
The Apostles baptised at first not out of ignorance because they were fullfilling the requirement of the former type. But they were ignorant that they need not continue to do so after Pentacost.
Wasn't until Peter understood this:
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
People were receiving the Holy Spirit without the need of the Apostles to need lay hands upon them. This was because the Holy Spirit was poured out on those that would believe.
In fact the act of Laying on of Hands was also a former type being fullfilled by the Apostles.
Paul
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