The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[charity]

Sent forth

Hbr 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

[charity]

Many relate Adam to Christ as a quickening spirit
May I mention Christ is the offspring and root of David?
Elected over his fellow man Moses by faithfulness, given and preaching the convent of New Life in the great congregation
Moses receiving the sinners Law
Adam spoke few words; He who new all of what Christ would suffer was David within his soul and spoke out in faith
Adam Was not found righteous in leading the congregation
Even so it is promised to the dust creation made subject to vanity unwilling, love and grace from God
That they shall see salvation and judgment days to be made a quickened spirit by resurrection of new life subject to falling again

Now is the time
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Christ the first fruits of them that slept
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Subject to believing on whom God has sent
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,

” That is a cow”
” No it is not”
” It is a cow. I know what cows look like. Look it has four hooves and an udder, it has horns and that is a farmer milking it”
“No CB. Can you hear it mooing and could you milk it?
That is a picture of a cow and a farmer.
Get it right, not just according to your understanding.”

[david]

CB,

Quote

Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: Dec. 2006 Posted: Jan. 18 2007,05:29 QUOTE David Quote All those scriptures you posted about the holy spirit having personality, speaking, teaching, comforting, etc. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU CB: Pleae try to answer it directly. Does such statements in themselves prove personality? YES

If such statements in themselves “prove” personality, then I guess “sin” is a person, because personal statements are made about it. “Wisdom” is a person. Death, a person. Etc.

In your mind, these are all persons then? Because such statments are made of these things as well. “in themselves” does this prove personality, I asked you.
Amazingly, you said yes.

Are sin, death and wisdom part of the trinity too, being that they are people? Do they make up their own trinity?

?

dave

[david]

CB

Quote

From the Jehovah's Witnesses own Bible. NWT II Cor 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

Quote

Even your Arian “bible” (NWT) contradicts you lot.

CB, you only quoted ONE scripture from the NWT. Is that “a lot” in your mind? I guess I now know why you think that there are “a lot” of scriptures that prove what you believe.

Secondly, how does the scipture you've quoted in any way contradict what I believe?

Can you please explain.

[Cult Buster]

David

Quote

Secondly, how does the scipture you've quoted in any way contradict what I believe? Can you please explain.

THE NWT Jehovah's Witness's Arian “bible” contradicts you.

Look again!

Jehovah Is the Alpha and the Omega1

In the verses from the NWT below, Jehovah God states that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

“I am the first and the last, and besides me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)

Thus, there is only one Alpha and Omega, first and last, and it is Jehovah God.

Jesus Is the Alpha and the Omega

Jesus makes it clear that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the Last:

“'Look!  I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.  I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to your people of these things for the congregations.  I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright morning star.'” (Revelation 22:12-16)

These are the things that the Son of God says, he who has his eyes like a fiery flame, and his feet are like fine copper.” (Revelation 2:18)

And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me…is eyes as a fiery flame; and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace…he laid his right hand upon me and said:  “Do not be fearful.  I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever.” (Revelation 1:12-18)

Conclusion

Jehovah God says he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and is the only God, and Jesus says he is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, so Jesus and Jehovah God are one and the same.

[Cult Buster]

The Holy Spirit is also Jehovah (God)

JEHOVAH The Holy Spirit

Compare
Jer 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH)  : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

With
Heb 10:15  Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Rev 22:9  worship God.

Compare
Psa 95:7  For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8  Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9  When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10  Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11  Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

With
Heb 3:7  Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8  Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9  When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10  Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11  So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Compare
Isa 6:8  Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9  And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10  Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

With
Act 28:25  And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26  Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27  For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28  Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

2Sa 23:1  Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2Sa 23:2  The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

2Sa 23:3  The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

[Cult Buster]

Charity

Quote

May I mention Christ is the offspring and root of David?

May I mention that Christ is also Jehovah God.

See the following.

                                        Jesus is Jehovah.

Joh 7:42  Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

2Ti 2:8  Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
   

[Cult Buster]

From the Jehovah's Witnesses own Bible.

NWT    II Cor 3:17  Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

                                       JEHOVAH The Holy Spirit

Compare  KJV

Jer 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH)  : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

With

Heb 10:15  Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[david]

Quote

From the Jehovah's Witnesses own Bible. NWT II Cor 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

yes. And?

[david]

REVELATION 22:8-18
“Well, I John was the one hearing and seeing these things. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that had been showing me these things. But he [the angel] tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.” He also tells me: “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, for the appointed time is near. He that is doing unrighteousness, let him do unrighteousness still; and let the filthy one be made filthy still; but let the righteous one do righteousness still, and let the holy one be made holy still. “‘Look! I [no name given] I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Aĺpha and the O·méga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’ “‘I, Jesus sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’” And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free. “I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;”

[david]

Quote

THE NWT Jehovah's Witness's Arian “bible” contradicts you.

Please show me where. Before, you quoted:

Quote

NWT II Cor 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

Can you explain how this contradicts what I believe?

[942767]

Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 19 2007,23:43)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 19 2007,22:40) Hi Oxy: Just want to establish something.  Since we, as you say, and I agree. are made in the image of God, and our soul is our dominant factor.  Does God have a soul? God Bless Hi, that's a very good question.  The soul is spirit in form and God is spirit.  I know that this example is less than perfect, but Father is the soul of God, the decision maker and great authority.  Jesus, who was born in the flesh as we are, is the body, subjected to death even as we are.   Our spirit is our conscience, sixth sense, intuition etc.  The Holy Spirit communes with us in a similar way to our conscience.

Hi Oxy and David:

As David has posted there are various scriptures in which God refers to his soul which when he does he is refering to his person.  These scriptures are: Lev. 26:11, Isaiah 1:14 and Isaiah 42:1.

Quoting Isaiah 42:1 it states: “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom MY SOUL DELIGHTETH;…”

Gen. 1:26-27 states: “And God said, let us make man in or image, after our likeness:…So god created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them”.

Gen. 2:7 states: “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life; and man became a living soul”.

And so, we can conclude that since God made man in his image that he is a living soul or person.

But in Lev. 11:45 God speaking to the nation of Israel states: “For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy”.

Jesus states: “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him, in spirit and in truth”.

1 John 4:16-17 states: “And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. GOD IS LOVE; AND HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD AND GOD IN HIM”.

And so, when Jesus states that God is a Spirit(or God is a Spirit of love) and they that worship him in spirit and in truth (in that same spirit of love and in truth).  1 John 4:10-13 states: Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.  Beloved if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.  No man hath seen God at any time.  If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.  Hereby know that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit”.

1 Co. 2:9-13 states: But as it is written, eye hat not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.  But God (His person) hath revealed them to us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth al things, yea the deep things of God.  For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him?  even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

And concluding, God is a living person or soul who through His Spirit or life that he lives demonstrates his love for humanity through the person of our Lord Jesus.  (Your spirit is the life that you live.)  Jesus states: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit , and they are life”.  (John 6:63)

And he has manifested his love for us through our Lord Jesus.  Jesus states: “He who hath seen me hath seen the Father”.  (John 14:9)

[charity]

Quote (Cult Buster @ Jan. 22 2007,05:34)

Charity Quote May I mention Christ is the offspring and root of David? May I mention that Christ is also Jehovah God. See the following.                                         Jesus is Jehovah. Joh 7:42  Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? 2Ti 2:8  Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Hi Cult Buster

BLESSINGS

Christ is the hearts desire of the plant of righteousness his father seed David
Who then was before hand the promise to our Father Abraham?
To come from the roots of Jesse
And if seen you have seen the Father by whom by righteous and faith has bestowed upon us his seed the word of promise from God
And honor is to be extended to by faith

So then we have God And the father, and Christ

And no need to exalt ourselves above what we are to be
and no need to exalt Christ to Gods throne using the scripture that dose not cons statute our Father God as a mighty ALL AND ALL

And yes our seed fathers are in heaven as said that dose not always assume to be God The Fathers

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
No one has ascended to heaven except the Son.

[charity]

Okay Moses and Elijah attend the MT of transfiguration

Where did they come from?

And where did they return to?

And why was Christ not the first to be seen for he was still awaiting the crucifixion
Law of gravity; What go's up must come down, and go”s up again to prepare a place not the same heaven that he was sent from.

testified by wittiness that Christ said “don’t tell anyone of the vision until the Son of Man be risen from the dead “again”

And why Not TELL?

Can some one lay me a golden egg please!

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Christ was shown in glory on earth with Moses and Elijah [how were they known?-my guess is that Jesus told them later], so the living were likely brought from and returned to, the bosom of Abraham in earth. Abraham rejoiced to see the time of Jesus as he was among those who live, the men of old.
Christ, the man from heaven, came down from heaven to be glorified again as shown in Dan 7, the same heaven to which he later ascended, and none others have done this.
Christ called himself the Son of man and did never publicise his heavenly origins as son of God, perhaps to avoid being killed before the time.
We do not know where the mansions of Christ are for those that cannot be held by Hades because of the one with the key.

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 23 2007,17:50)

Hi charity, Christ was shown in glory on earth with Moses and Elijah [how were they known?-my guess is that Jesus told them later], so the living were likely brought from and returned to, the bosom of Abraham in earth. Abraham rejoiced to see the time of Jesus as he was among those who live, the men of old. Christ, the man from heaven, came down from heaven to be glorified again as shown in Dan 7, the same heaven to which he later ascended, and none others have done this. Christ called himself the Son of man and did never publicise his heavenly origins as son of God, perhaps to avoid being killed before the time. We do not know where the mansions of Christ are for those that cannot be held by Hades because of the one with the key.

Yes it proves to me that…

He was incorruptible before the crucifixion
He did not need to die but decided to; he could have called ten thousand saints to his side

But he loved us and died for the sin of unbelief that he was redeemed to Gods side to be sent to us
Showing himself with others that have believed in the God of the living

Our unbelief of this…

Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

GRAVITY

ONCE IN THE OLD HEAVEN; FIRST IN THE NEW PREPARED HEAVEN

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Then God comes to dwell on earth among His purified and sanctified family.
He anchors us as head of his body in heaven so we sit with him now.

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 23 2007,19:54)

Hi charity, Then God comes to dwell on earth among His purified and sanctified family. He anchors us as head of his body in heaven so we sit with him now.

A man that claimed he was the resurrection of life came
Resurrection= once lived and has had life put in him again
But they did not believe him,( He should be the first to rise even born again of the womb;)
but no they believed him not; and killed the prince of peace whom God had raised up and sent forth nailing him to a tree; to only find that up he comes again for the faithless sinner;
okay faith is on that crucifixion resurrection now; yes we have seen; lets base our foundation on this resurrection and remain ignorant to whom the prophets said God redeemed and sent as the baby Jesus savior let us praise him; but we cant? Oh our mouth dose! But unless what was done before is seen how one can praise a baby in a manger that can only lie there at this time?

[Author]

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