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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2012,09:55) David, Ed will vouch for me on this: Almost every discussion I've ever had with Ed eventually comes down to where you are with him in this discussion.
There comes a point when you just keep repeating, “It is the Spirit OF God, and therefore not God Himself.” To which he'll just keep responding, “When are you going to prove your point C”?
When we reach this point in our discussions, as Ed will attest, I tell him it's time for me to walk away once again, because he has once again turned into the little boy who keeps insisting the grass is blue and the sky is green, no matter how much proof there is to the contrary.
His last response to me was, “What if the moon is made out of cheese?”
How do I respond to that nonsense?And his recent responses to you are his attempt to win by default, because you are a JW, and of course we all know JWs are “bad” and “a cult” and “totally wrong about scripture”, right?
So he is trying to move the discussion away from the Holy Spirit point that he lost, and on to a discussion about the flaws of the JWs, where he knows he'll have plenty here willing to jump on the hate bandwagon.Bottom line, he cannot possibly address the possession point that the Bible so clearly illustrates. He now knows he can't address it, but doesn't want to “lose”, so any further discussion with him about it will be an effort in futility for you.
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading your posts.
Yes, Mike.I seem to have stepped into some alternate dimension, where Ed's brain is in a loop pattern.
It troubles me that he has yet to actually try to prove this belief. he only stated it and wants to knock others down who disbelieve it, yet doesn't want to show proof.
Yes, I definitely noticed with Ed that he starts attacking the PERSON and not the argument when he has nothing to actually say or cant respond.
I can only prove that C is extremely likely based on what the whole of scripture says.
Quote (david @ Mar. 01 2012,15:35) Quote Ed, I have to wonder why people have a problem with referring to the one true God as the Holy Spirit. Of course, the reason being, that they have not been taught.
God is holy I Peter 1:16
“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
God is spirit. John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
God is holy spirit.
More precisely, God is the Holy Spirit.
Barely,
Isn't Jesus a spirit?
Isn't Jesus holy?
Aren't the angels spirits?
Are they holy?
By this logic there are many spirits that are holy, or holy spirits.
I, nor anyone here do not believe that God is not “holy” nor that he is a “spirit.”
But, the holy spirit is spoken of in a way that simply doesn't allow it to be God.
It's never worshiped.
It's never directly said to be God (unlike Jehovah who is directly said to be God 1000 times)
It's spoken of as something God possesses, NOT as something he is. (It is spoken of as God's finger, for example.)So, yes, God is holy. God is a spirit.
But God is not THE holy spirit that people usually refer to when they use that term.
david,Jesus Christ is not a spirit.
Read Luke 24:39 sometime.
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
However, he had spirit upon him.
Isaiah 61:1
“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;”
which enable him to do the works listed, but he himself is not spirit.
God anointed with Jesus of Nazareth with spirit. Jesus of N did not anoint himself.
It is the spirit that he was anointed with that enabled him to do the works that he did.
Acts 10:38
“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Quote Isn't Jesus holy? God is holy, Jesus is holy and we are supposed to be holy.
I Peter 1:16
“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
Quote But, the holy spirit is spoken of in a way that simply doesn't allow it to be God. It's never worshiped.
And that somehow eliminates the possibility that it is a reference to God?
Have you read Psalm 18:2
“The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. “
Is God as a rock or buckler or horn of salvation or high tower ever mentioned as being worshipped?
If not then you should erase that verse from your Bible, after all, according to your premise, it could not possibly be a reference to God.
You premise and logic has more holes than a sieve.
Well, I guess that is why I am here, to correct your faulty logic, premises and theology.
Quote It's never directly said to be God (unlike Jehovah who is directly said to be God 1000 times)
It's spoken of as something God possesses, NOT as something he is.God is spirit, you failed to read John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Your ignorance of scripture is not helping your theology at all.
You do have opinions galore. Your opinions are not truth.
You need to learn that God's word is truth.
John 17:17
barley
barley,
we could discuss luke if you like. I am very familiar with it. Try using more than one translation and ask yourself what they all mean.
But how about this:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:45
“It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
(You do understand this is referring to Jesus?)1 TIM 3:16
“‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, ”1 PETER 3:18 (NASB)
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;”[“in the spirit,” NE, AT, JB, Dy RS]
(At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”)Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.—Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1, 4; Lu 24:15, 16.
The Bible is very clear when it says:
“Christ died once for all time concerning sins . . . , he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18) Humans with flesh-and-blood bodies cannot live in heaven. Of the resurrection to heavenly life, the Bible says: “It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. . . . flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 15:44-50) Only spirit persons with spiritual bodies can live in heaven.1 CORINTHIANS 15:42-50, RS: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. . . . Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’; the last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was a perfect human as Adam had been at the start] became a life-giving SPIRIT. . . . I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”
This is a topic that I could discuss a lot lot more, but this isn't really the thread to do it.
My point is, Jesus, in heaven now is a spirit.
He is holy.We can just as easily call jesus holy spirit as Ed calls God holy spirit.
Quote And that somehow eliminates the possibility that it is a reference to God? Have you read Psalm 18:2
“The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. “
Is God as a rock or buckler or horn of salvation or high tower ever mentioned as being worshipped?
If not then you should erase that verse from your Bible, after all, according to your premise, it could not possibly be a reference to God.
I do not want to erase any verses from the Bible. I do question how they are used and if they are proof of something or not.
Do you not think it is at all important for us to know that the holy spirit is “God” if it is “God.”?
1000 times we are told in no uncertain terms that Jehovah is God. (I really feel like listing each of these one by one.) No where exists in the Bible, not once, where we are clearly told this of the holy spirit.
It is circular (false reasoning, bad logic) to say that the holy spirit is God, therefore when it says “God” is worshipped it is talking about the holy spirit being worshipped.
How convenient. Well why doesn't it ever say the holy spirit (if it is God) should be worshipped? God is referred to as a Rock a couple times in scripture.
The holy spirit is spoken of and mentioned many hundreds or perhaps thousands of times. Why not, in one of those times, mention that it is “God” or should be worshiped?If you say:
The holy spirit is God.
Therefore, when it says God is worshipped, it is saying the holy spirit is being worshipped,
Therefore, the Bible shows the holy spirit is worshiped, and hence God.That is the definition of a circle.
I know, with you, you didn't quite complete the circular logic, and say that this was proof of God. But I find it ironic that you use the word's “faulty logic.”
And then, you finished with more emotional propaganda that doesn't help what you are trying to prove:
Quote God is spirit, you failed to read John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Your ignorance of scripture is not helping your theology at all.
You do have opinions galore. Your opinions are not truth.
You need to learn that God's word is truth.
John 17:17
I could say the exact same things to you.
You admit that Jesus is “holy.”
Scripture does say (the scriptures you were unaware of) that he is now a spirit.
hence, as I said, the case could equally be made that he is the holy spirit. Hence, Ed's premise that you can put those words together about God do not prove that he is the holy spirit, as the same can be done with Jesus. Is that not consistent straight forward logic? If I am in error, please point out the actual error, and we can leave the other things aside.
david
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,19:24) Hi David,
Anything related to God is HOLY.
The HOLY prophets and the HOLY place for example.
Nwere in scriptures any one of those are called holy
?I mean prophets
LK 1:70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—
AC 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
2PE 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,12:24) Hi David,
Anything related to God is HOLY.
The HOLY prophets and the HOLY place for example.
Nick, you often state things to me, as if you are disagreeing with me. The point you are making is basically the point I am making.Jehovah (YHWH/YHVH) is God
This is what evidence/proof looks like:
“Jehovah your God”–455 times
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”
“Jehovah your God”Now, multiply the above by 10 times! Picture this list being 10 times as long!
And that's roughly how many times the above phrase appears in the Bible—About 455. (Or, YHWH, or YHVH, or “Yahweh is God,” if you prefer)“Jehovah the God of”–204 times
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”
“Jehovah the God of”If you multiply the above 10 times, we see roughly how often that phrase appears in the Bible—about 204.
“Jehovah our God”–104 times
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”
“Jehovah our God”Multiply the above by 10 and you have roughly the number of times that this phrase appears in the bible—104 times.
Of course there are others.
Jehovah God–50 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah a God–1 time
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–2 times
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
I no doubt missed some. Just recently Ed pointed out that I missed 1 of the times where it says: “Jehovah is God.”Number of times we find the phrase:
“holy spirit your God”–0
“holy spirit our God”–0
“holy spirit God”–0
“holy spirit our God”–0
“holy spirit a God”–0
“holy spirit is our God”–0
“holy spirit a God”–0
“the God holy spirit”–0
etc.In addition to the direct obvious 1000 times that Jehovah is called God so directly, there are possibly 1000-2000 times (a guess) where it isn't directly stated. (I just searched the above phrases to come up with those numbers, but there are likely many times where “Jehovah” and “God” are linked in the same sentence for example, but not in the sentences I chose.)
david
If the sort of “evidence” that Ed suggests as proof were actually proof, then there would be about 6000-7000 proofs that Jehovah is God, just using his name and the word “God,” and not using other proofs, such as worship for example. If you included instances where it speaks of the “Father” (who is Jehovah) or the “Almighty” (who is Jehovah), then that number gets much higher.
Ed, I know I have asked this about 6 or 7 times, but if you believe that the holy spirit is God, I assume you have a file with scriptures in it, a list perhaps to explain this.
Or, is it really just the 2 scriptures that you interpret to hint at this belief? I really would like to see all the scriptures listed together. It shouldn't take that long and I would assume you would want to do this.
Quote (david @ Mar. 02 2012,12:11) barley, we could discuss luke if you like. I am very familiar with it. Try using more than one translation and ask yourself what they all mean.
But how about this:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:45
“It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
(You do understand this is referring to Jesus?)1 TIM 3:16
“‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, ”1 PETER 3:18 (NASB)
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;”[“in the spirit,” NE, AT, JB, Dy RS]
(At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”)Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.—Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1, 4; Lu 24:15, 16.
The Bible is very clear when it says:
“Christ died once for all time concerning sins . . . , he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18) Humans with flesh-and-blood bodies cannot live in heaven. Of the resurrection to heavenly life, the Bible says: “It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. . . . flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 15:44-50) Only spirit persons with spiritual bodies can live in heaven.1 CORINTHIANS 15:42-50, RS: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. . . . Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’; the last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was a perfect human as Adam had been at the start] became a life-giving SPIRIT. . . . I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”
This is a topic that I could discuss a lot lot more, but this isn't really the thread to do it.
My point is, Jesus, in heaven now is a spirit.
He is holy.We can just as easily call jesus holy spirit as Ed calls God holy spirit.
Quote And that somehow eliminates the possibility that it is a reference to God? Have you read Psalm 18:2
“The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. “
Is God as a rock or buckler or horn of salvation or high tower ever mentioned as being worshipped?
If not then you should erase that verse from your Bible, after all, according to your premise, it could not possibly be a reference to God.
I do not want to erase any verses from the Bible. I do question how they are used and if they are proof of something or not.
Do you not think it is at all important for us to know that the holy spirit is “God” if it is “God.”?
1000 times we are told in no uncertain terms that Jehovah is God. (I really feel like listing each of these one by one.) No where exists in the Bible, not once, where we are clearly told this of the holy spirit.
It is circular (false reasoning, bad logic) to say that the holy spirit is God, therefore when it says “God” is worshipped it is talking about the holy spirit being worshipped.
How convenient. Well why doesn't it ever say the holy spirit (if it is God) should be worshipped? God is referred to as a Rock a couple times in scripture.
The holy spirit is spoken of and mentioned many hundreds or perhaps thousands of times. Why not, in one of those times, mention that it is “God” or should be worshiped?If you say:
The holy spirit is God.
Therefore, when it says God is worshipped, it is saying the holy spirit is being worshipped,
Therefore, the Bible shows the holy spirit is worshiped, and hence God.That is the definition of a circle.
I know, with you, you didn't quite complete the circular logic, and say that this was proof of God. But I find it ironic that you use the word's “faulty logic.”
And then, you finished with more emotional propaganda that doesn't help what you are trying to prove:
Quote God is spirit, you failed to read John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Your ignorance of scripture is not helping your theology at all.
You do have opinions galore. Your opinions are not truth.
You need to learn that God's word is truth.
John 17:17
I could say the exact same things to you.
You admit that Jesus is “holy.”
Scripture does say (the scriptures you were unaware of) that he is now a spirit.
hence, as I said, the case could equally be made that he is the holy spirit. Hence, Ed's premise that you can put those words together about God do not prove that he is the holy spirit, as the same can be done with Jesus. Is that not consistent straight forward logic? If I am in error, please point out the actual error, and we can leave the other things aside.
david
That is all very nice.But God is spirit.
Jesus Christ now and at the gathering together, we also, will have spiritual bodies.
I Corinthians 15:44
“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
Whether natural or spiritual, it is still a body.
Whether Jesus Christ's body now, or our bodies at the gathering when he will fashion our bodies like unto his glorious body, it is still bodies.
Philippians 3:20-21
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.God is spirit, no body involved.
Jesus Christ now, and us in the future, has a spiritual body.
Not spirit, a spiritual body. Not one energized by soul, nephesh or psuche, but energized by spirit pneuma.
What that body will consist of, I do not know, but there is a body involved.
I Timothy 3:16 reads in the KJV,” God was manifested in the flesh”.
Only the Stephens Greek has the the word God there. all other texts have the word which.
It should read “the mystery of godliness which was manifest in the flesh” justified spiritually
Some scholars say there is a different ink where the word which was overwritten to read God.
Being made alive with that spiritual body.
I Peter 3:18
Remember there is still a body involved, whether natural or spiritual.
God is spirit, no body is involved.
K
eep that straight and you'll learn more.Not all references to God have worship involved.
Not all uses of Jehovah has worship associated with it. Thus we could apply your logic and say that there are two Jehovahs. One that is worshiped and another that is not worshiped.
Maybe you should list all thousand but separate them into two groups. One group where worship is mentioned and another group where worship is not mentioned.
Which group do you think is larger?
Which Jehovah is mentioned more often?
Would that be an indicator of who is more powerful? More necessary? More Jehovah than the other?
God is the Holy Spirit.
there are other spirits that are holy, but only God is the Holy Spirit.
His gift is also called holy spirit. I John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Note that God dwells in us, just like he dwells in Jesus Christ.
We, as believers have received this gift of holy spirit from the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:17
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Hang in there, there is more to learn.
barley
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2012,07:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,06:22) Hi,
The Holy Spirit is God
but God is more than His Spirit.
Yes, Nick, of course.[אהיה אשר אהיה]
ěhyäh ăsher ěhyäh
“I will be what I will be” (Ex.3:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote [אהיה אשר אהיה]
ěhyäh ăsher ěhyäh
“I will be what I will be” (Ex.3:14)Edj,
Yes that is the genuine truth:
ěhyäh ăsher ěhyäh
I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE
WHY NOT A TRIUNE GOD THEN???
Since scripture is crammed with proof for who is not blind!!
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (barley @ Mar. 02 2012,11:49) Quote (david @ Mar. 01 2012,15:35) Quote Ed, I have to wonder why people have a problem with referring to the one true God as the Holy Spirit. Of course, the reason being, that they have not been taught.
God is holy I Peter 1:16
“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
God is spirit. John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
God is holy spirit.
More precisely, God is the Holy Spirit.
Barely,
Isn't Jesus a spirit?
Isn't Jesus holy?
Aren't the angels spirits?
Are they holy?
By this logic there are many spirits that are holy, or holy spirits.
I, nor anyone here do not believe that God is not “holy” nor that he is a “spirit.”
But, the holy spirit is spoken of in a way that simply doesn't allow it to be God.
It's never worshiped.
It's never directly said to be God (unlike Jehovah who is directly said to be God 1000 times)
It's spoken of as something God possesses, NOT as something he is. (It is spoken of as God's finger, for example.)So, yes, God is holy. God is a spirit.
But God is not THE holy spirit that people usually refer to when they use that term.
david,Jesus Christ is not a spirit.
Read Luke 24:39 sometime.
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
However, he had spirit upon him.
Isaiah 61:1
“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;”
which enable him to do the works listed, but he himself is not spirit.
God anointed with Jesus of Nazareth with spirit. Jesus of N did not anoint himself.
It is the spirit that he was anointed with that enabled him to do the works that he did.
Acts 10:38
“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Quote Isn't Jesus holy? God is holy, Jesus is holy and we are supposed to be holy.
I Peter 1:16
“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
Quote But, the holy spirit is spoken of in a way that simply doesn't allow it to be God. It's never worshiped.
And that somehow eliminates the possibility that it is a reference to God?
Have you read Psalm 18:2
“The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. “
Is God as a rock or buckler or horn of salvation or high tower ever mentioned as being worshipped?
If not then you should erase that verse from your Bible, after all, according to your premise, it could not possibly be a reference to God.
You premise and logic has more holes than a sieve.
Well, I guess that is why I am here, to correct your faulty logic, premises and theology.
Quote It's never directly said to be God (unlike Jehovah who is directly said to be God 1000 times)
It's spoken of as something God possesses, NOT as something he is.God is spirit, you failed to read John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Your ignorance of scripture is not helping your theology at all.
You do have opinions galore. Your opinions are not truth.
You need to learn that God's word is truth.
John 17:17
barley
Quote Jesus Christ is not a spirit. Barley,
I agree,
Jesus is the first sinless Man God who was glorified in SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY,AND HE CAN BECOME BOTH VISISBLE AND INVISIBLE BECAUSE HE ACQUIRED A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SPIRITUAL TRANSFORMATION IN HIS DEAD FLESH AND BLOOD BODY.
It is also very important to be aware of,that BOTH JESUS and the FATHER were glorifed by the Holy Spirit and also immediately,as soon as He died,in split of a second and went to hell to lock Satan where he is up to now, preached the gospel and gave freedom to whomever believed Him,then He resurructed.
John 13:32If God be glorified in him, God also will glorify him in himself; and immediately will he glorify him.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi C,
No, God was in him.[2Cor 5]
Jesus as anointed as the Christ of God.
Satan is wreaking havoc at the mo but when Jesus returns he will do time-for 1000 years[Rev 20]Hi David,
The second Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit.
Of course when he was raised in his old tent that had not yet happened.
As promised when he returned to the Father his Spirit was poured out at Pentecost to join the brothers to him in God.Now the Lord is the Spirit
Quote (barley @ Mar. 01 2012,18:49) Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power………….”
Or, in Ed's version (perhaps yours too, barley), “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with GOD and with power…………….”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2012,11:51) Hi David,
The second Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit.
Of course when he was raised in his old tent that had not yet happened.
I agree, Nick. But the scriptural fact is that Jesus IS a spirit now – with which I think you agree.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2012,09:55) David, Ed will vouch for me on this: Almost every discussion I've ever had with Ed eventually comes down to where you are with him in this discussion.
There comes a point when you just keep repeating, “It is the Spirit OF God, and therefore not God Himself.” To which he'll just keep responding, “When are you going to prove your point C”?
When we reach this point in our discussions, as Ed will attest, I tell him it's time for me to walk away once again, because he has once again turned into the little boy who keeps insisting the grass is blue and the sky is green, no matter how much proof there is to the contrary.
His last response to me was, “What if the moon is made out of cheese?”
How do I respond to that nonsense?And his recent responses to you are his attempt to win by default, because you are a JW, and of course we all know JWs are “bad” and “a cult” and “totally wrong about scripture”, right?
So he is trying to move the discussion away from the Holy Spirit point that he lost, and on to a discussion about the flaws of the JWs, where he knows he'll have plenty here willing to jump on the hate bandwagon.Bottom line, he cannot possibly address the possession point that the Bible so clearly illustrates. He now knows he can't address it, but doesn't want to “lose”, so any further discussion with him about it will be an effort in futility for you.
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading your posts.
Hi Mike,So far me and David are discussing “TWO” verses:
1. Lied to HolySpirit = lied to God; is what the verses says.
To which David says is weak and then he goes into story telling,
making up scenarios in an attempt to prove his belief is correct.2. Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which
corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much
rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?This allows ONLY for TWO positions for the “HolySpirit”,
either “A” or “B”; “C” requires evidence on your part.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.
C. The HolySpirit doesn't apply(?) to Heb.12:9.
Are you Not claiming that The HolySpirit doesn't apply(?) to Heb.12:9.
Certainly I have made the point that “A” and “B” are the ONLY two possibilities.If you suggest “C” is a possibility, then what evidence do you have to support this claim?
Do you still not understand my point? WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM OF “C”?David has offered NO evidence whatsoever to support “C”.
We still have many more verses to discuss, but both you and
David seem to be bogged down on just these two verses so far.1) Making up scenarios about Acts 5:3-4 doesn't prove your point.
2) And David has continually ignored my VALID point about Heb.12:9.
This is where we stand on theses two verses we have discussed so far.SO WHAT, IF ANY, EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT “C”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Mar. 02 2012,11:40) Quote Do you not read my posts? Or do you just ignore them? I possess my spirit, my spirit is me! Ed, you possess 1000's of things I imagine. Maybe 10's of thousands. How many of those things are you?
Ed, if I cut off your finger, and kept it for myself, and put it in my pocket, I would not have “you” but I would have a part of you.
Virtually every person on the planet understands this.
Unless, perhaps, you are confusing “soul” (person) as in 8 souls on the ark, for example with “spirit,” which would be a common mistake.
If you want to begin that discussion, fine. is that what you believe?–That you are a spirit being inside a body, and if the body dies, your spirit continues on? (if that's what you believe, perhaps I understand your ideas better. But, it isn't a scriptural idea, although it is a common one.)
Quote “Spirit of God”, the possessive phrase, the number of times written is 26.
Perhaps, but it's used possessively much more than that, with other phrasing. As in: God's holy spirit, or the God's spirit, etc.
Hi David,Acts 5:3-4 (Point #1 HolySpirit is God)
1) The entirety of my DNA coding is contained in my finger.
You have yet to address this FACT concerning my finger.2) “God's holy spirit” is used “0” times.
“God's spirit” is used “0” times.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2012,15:32) SO WHAT, IF ANY, EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT “C”?
The 26 times we can read “Spirit OF God” in the scriptures, Ed. The Bible calls for two or three witnesses, and we've offered you 26 of them. Yet you say we've offered nothing?Here's some more evidence, Ed:
Acts 10:38
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power………The above sentence speaks of someONE who anointed Jesus with someTHING. Do you assert that God anointed Jesus with HIMSELF?
Would the verse make sense if it said, “The Holy Spirit anointed Jesus with God”?
How about, “God anointed Jesus with God”?
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