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Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:21) Quote There are “only” two (Spirit) positions available in Heb.12:9.
This verse allows for no other position of the “HolySpirit”, other than “A” or “B”.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.I was wanting to address these other comments before getting to the one scripture you wanted to discuss.
First, there are not only 2 options. I don't know why you would say that.The “father of spirits” could be God. And God could be the Father of the vast number of spirits that were created. But, the holy spirit, since in scripture it is spoken of so often possessively, as if he possesses it, as if it is the “finger of God” or his Arm, or his power, it should be easy for you to understand that God did not Create his own arm. God is not the father of his own arm.
So, no, there is anther option. That option is, we understand the holy spirit in light of how it is often spoken of in the Bible–as something God possesses. For simplicity sake, I keep saying his 'finger' as it is spoken of that way a couple of times.
Now, on to your scripture that this began with.
no answer here?Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:34) On acts 5 1. You lied to the holy spirit (of God).
2. You lied to God.3. You cut the finger (of David).
4. You cut David.We understand that statements such as 3 and 4 can both make perfect sense together: you cut the finger “of” David. Or, more generally, you cut David.
And even though we all realize that it is the spirit “of” God and that it's Gods holy spirit, we somehow can't understand that to lie to Gods holy spirit is to lie to God.
In scripture, Gods spirit is called his finger. So, the illustration should make sense to everyone.
Hi David,Sick to 1 & 2, 3 & 4 is ONLY a distraction, and not part of the verse.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2012,02:45) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2012,09:38) There are “only” two (Spirit) positions available in Heb.12:9.
This verse allows for no other position of the “HolySpirit”, other than “A” or “B”.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.
Or C: The Holy Spirit is an “apendage/possession/part OF” the Father of spirits.C is the correct answer, Ed.
Mike,you “clipped” what is necessary to discuss and instead merely offer YOUR opinion; stay focused on each verse; OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:34) On acts 5 1. You lied to the holy spirit (of God).
2. You lied to God.3. You cut the finger (of David).
4. You cut David.We understand that statements such as 3 and 4 can both make perfect sense together: you cut the finger “of” David. Or, more generally, you cut David.
And even though we all realize that it is the spirit “of” God and that it's Gods holy spirit, we somehow can't understand that to lie to Gods holy spirit is to lie to God.
In scripture, Gods spirit is called his finger. So, the illustration should make sense to everyone.
Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:27) This is the scripture Ed wanted to discuss: Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own?
and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.5. David's spirit did not address Acts 5:3-4.
6. David did not address Acts 5:3-4.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,04:55) Hi David,
Yes you cannot understand these things.
But they are basic.
Nick, being a catholic, you are wrong. But if you think you are right, USE YOUR WORDS.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,04:25) Hi D,
Your whole discussion speaks of the Spirit as some sort of a limited tool of God's that you would divide from God Himself.
This is not what you mean?
Nick, I certainly never said it was limited! Nor did I describe it as a tool.Nick, is this something Catholicism has taught you. Come out of her nick.
Quote Your “finger” analogy is good, David. In the past I've used an “ear” analogy with Ed. Of course, it is not my analogy. The bible itself has parallel gospel accounts where the holy spirit is called god finger. Was it not the finger of god that wrote on the tablet? In other places, it speaks of it as his arm. All these things convey understanding.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2012,05:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,11:55) Hi David,
Yes you cannot understand these things.
But they are basic.
What does that crap even mean, Nick?
Man up and scripturally defend your claims for once instead of making condescending, nonsensical ad hominems – which we all know are designed to hide the fact that you can't defend your doctrines using scripture.
Ya. I can only assume this is the way he wants to be treated as this is the way he treats others.He was not taught how to converse.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,05:27) Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:21) Quote There are “only” two (Spirit) positions available in Heb.12:9.
This verse allows for no other position of the “HolySpirit”, other than “A” or “B”.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.I was wanting to address these other comments before getting to the one scripture you wanted to discuss.
First, there are not only 2 options. I don't know why you would say that.The “father of spirits” could be God. And God could be the Father of the vast number of spirits that were created. But, the holy spirit, since in scripture it is spoken of so often possessively, as if he possesses it, as if it is the “finger of God” or his Arm, or his power, it should be easy for you to understand that God did not Create his own arm. God is not the father of his own arm.
So, no, there is anther option. That option is, we understand the holy spirit in light of how it is often spoken of in the Bible–as something God possesses. For simplicity sake, I keep saying his 'finger' as it is spoken of that way a couple of times.
Now, on to your scripture that this began with.
no answer here?
Ed. You really like to ask false questions. And when we don't answer you you are confused.There are more than the 2 possibilities.
It would be like me asking you this false question:
“Ed, are you still teaching people falsely OR have you stopped?”
Those are the two options. Which is it Ed?
You do understand the fallacy here?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,06:46) Hi MB and david,
keep searching
Nick, it's good to read the bible. I would start there. Just read a little every day. Make notes. Ask questions. Discuss these things with people. Give up pagan and trinitarian ideas. Start from scratch if you must.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,05:39) Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:34) On acts 5 1. You lied to the holy spirit (of God).
2. You lied to God.3. You cut the finger (of David).
4. You cut David.We understand that statements such as 3 and 4 can both make perfect sense together: you cut the finger “of” David. Or, more generally, you cut David.
And even though we all realize that it is the spirit “of” God and that it's Gods holy spirit, we somehow can't understand that to lie to Gods holy spirit is to lie to God.
In scripture, Gods spirit is called his finger. So, the illustration should make sense to everyone.
Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,04:27) This is the scripture Ed wanted to discuss: Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own?
and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.5. David's spirit did not address Acts 5:3-4.
6. David did not address Acts 5:3-4.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, but Gods spirit does. And in the bible, gods holy spirit is called the finger of God.So, I thought you would understand the comparison. I thought you would understand how people normally speak–
If God were to say: “my finger (holy spirit) prodded you to action,” and then he were to say: “I moved you to action,” HOW WOULD YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2012,15:32)
Hi David,Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave
them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?Heb.12:9 is indicative of the father of Spirits being the HolySpirit.
God bless
Ed JQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,02:38) Hi David, There are “only” two (Spirit) positions available in Heb.12:9.
This verse allows for no other position of the “HolySpirit”, other than “A” or “B”.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.I have highlighted in my previous post where I have pointed this dilemma to you already.
Since you reject “A” (which is correct), you can ONLY claim “B”, but you know this cannot be correct.So YOUR only alternative is to say that the “HolySpirit” is exempt from this verse.
So the burden of proof then shifts to YOU, what evidence DO YOU HAVE to suggest this? (1Thess.5:21)You did say you wanted to discuss this matter, did you not?
Since the watchtower society's opinions holds no water here,
you will have to produce Scriptural backing on this;
well, do YOU have any?, if so, lets see it?Reposting how many times the bible says Jehovah is God
is irrelevant to the point of Heb.12:9. YOU best check with
YOUR leaders and see what prefabbed answers they have.…I'll be waiting!
God bless
Ed J
Hi David,Offer a third possibility to my point of Heb 12:9 then,
instead of just dodging my point, or claiming it is invalid.You said you wanted to discuss the matter, have you changed your mind?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Since the watchtower society's opinions holds no water here,
you will have to produce Scriptural backing on this;
well, do YOU have any?, if so, lets see it?Reposting how many times the bible says Jehovah is God
is irrelevant to the point of Heb.12:9. YOU best check with
YOUR leaders and see what prefabbed answers they have.Ed, you have been hanging around nick so much, his Reasoning is wearing off on you.
What you are doing would be the equivalent of me doing this:
“ED, your crazy number systems that bring you to this conclusion are wrong and they won't help you. Start looking at the whole of scripture and leave our secret number code behind.”
Ed, do you see how that is not honest or ethical debating? Do you see how it only appeals to emotions, as if you were trying to sway others listening?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,06:58) Hi David,
You should be beyond milk now.
Ready for meat?
Nick. Bibles aren't bad. They are good to read.Hi David, back to the discussion then.
There are “only” two (Spirit) positions available in Heb.12:9.
This verse allows for no other position of the “HolySpirit”, other than “A” or “B”.A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.
The evidence points to “A”, what say YOU?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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