The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[davidbfun]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2010,22:20)

Thanks David, I will consider your questions and present you with thoughtful answers hopefully soon.

Thanks Kathi,

I know you will.

You are one of a few that actually replies to what is written.

In His Love,

David

[NickHassan]

Hi DBF,
The Spirit fully represents God and God's work is all done through His Spirit.

[Lightenup]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 23 2010,22:04)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2010,23:19) Hi Davidbfun, Tell me why the Holy Spirit is not listed in these verses if the Holy Spirit is indeed equally a separate person as the Son and the Father. There is no need to explain gender at this point.  I don't even believe that the Holy Spirit is equally a separate person.  I believe that the Bible has taught us that the spirit of man is the inner person of man.  Therefore I tend to think that the Spirit of God is the inner person of God which uniquely flows from God to wherever God sends it/him. Matt 24:36 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NASU John 5:23 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. NASU John 5:26 26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; NASU John 6:40 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” NASU John 6:46 46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. NASU 1 John 2:23-24 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. NASU 2 John 3 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. NASU 2 John 9 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. NASU Matthew 11:27 NASB 27″All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Especially note that verse Matt 11:27.  The Holy Spirit doesn't know the Son or the Father if indeed the Spirit is a separate person as you say. Hi LU, I will answer one thing at a time.  The absence of something does not negate the existence. (“Why the HS is not listed in these verses…”) I could take the quotes about the HS and ask why God isn't mentioned….does that mean that God doesn't exist? If you don't believe the HS is a separate person, what is it? Your belief: Spirit = inner man Extrapolated:   Spirit = inner God Jesus died and said, “unto your hands, Father I commit my spirit”.  Body into tomb, spirit into Heaven. QUESTIONS: 1-Does the Father have a Body? Is the “Body” God? 2-Does the Father have a Spirit? Is the “Spirit” God? 3-Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the Body? 4-Is the Spirit outside of the Body? 5-Who is God? 6-What are God's traits? Omnipotent? Omnipresent? Perpetual (Always existing)? Omnscient? Has beginning? Has an end? Has mother/father? 7-What do you call “Body”? 8-What do you call “Spirit”? Extra credit: (Not necessary here, just for your own edification.) How do you define God? And each essence of Him? Not characteristics (kind, loving, jealous,etc)….or actions (creation, fathering, etc)   Without definitions how do we discuss anything logically? Once there is an understanding I could then address the Bible verses in depth.  Without an understanding it is just opinions. I tried to define God and give meaning to God in a thread called God vs God, but no one wanted to listen or think.   Bible says that God is spirit. Bible says that God has a body. How do YOU reconcile these two concepts? I gave a lengthy response in “The son begotten when” Thread that might help in your other questions. I “think” that I could debate anyone's concept of God with short questions to nullify that belief; if I knew their basis (definitions) or terms for their beliefs. I don't think anyone could do the same for mine. For example, those that believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is “God, the son” couldn't answer these first questions…1-Is Jesus the son of God? 2-Is Jesus, God, the son?  The first question proves that he is not God because it says he came from God and is His son.  The second says that he is God and therefore is not a son. He cannot be BOTH.  God & son. Without even opening the Bible. The same could be done with your God, what is it? The problem: No one wants to make a “concrete” definition of their God, and how YHVH and Holy Spirit fit into their definitiion.  While talking they leap back and forth like Jesus is FULLY GOD and the FULLY MAN for trinitarians. Those questions above are what I need to understand which God the person believes in….and IF their Holy Spirit is a separate person or…… How many “Gods” are there?  I'll tell you when I get the responses. Lovingly, David PS In order to answer all of your Bible quotes we need to define “God”.

Hi David,
Wow, let's contemplate God here.  No small task you ask of me but at the same time, maybe really rather simple.

Your questions:

Quote

UESTIONS: 1-Does the Father have a Body? Is the “Body” God? 2-Does the Father have a Spirit? Is the “Spirit” God? 3-Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the Body? 4-Is the Spirit outside of the Body? 5-Who is God? 6-What are God's traits? Omnipotent? Omnipresent? Perpetual (Always existing)? Omnscient? Has beginning? Has an end? Has mother/father? 7-What do you call “Body”? 8-What do you call “Spirit”? Extra credit: (Not necessary here, just for your own edification.) How do you define God? And each essence of Him? Not characteristics (kind, loving, jealous,etc)….or actions (creation, fathering, etc)

#1 Does the Father have a body?  From what I can tell yes but it is not flesh, it is a spirit body. Is the 'body' God? The body is a part of God.
#2 Does the Father have a Spirit? Yes, the Spirit is a part of God.
#3. Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the body?  The Spirit is a part of the Father as the inner person of the Father.
#4. Is the Spirit outside of the body? The Spirit of God is unique in that it can be within the Father and at the same time be sent out of the Father.
#5. Who is God?  The highest form of being that is the highest expression of goodness, love, power, and wisdom, truth and grace and holiness…able to do anything He wills to do.
#6. What are God's traits?  I do not use the terms omnipotent even though I believe He is the most powerful of any being.  Nor can I say omnipresent although if any being can be everwhere all at once, it would be Him. Perpetual?  Yes, I would say that the Most High God would have to have always existed as a living being but that He could also reproduce one exactly like Himself that perhaps al
ways existed in a dormant stage within the Father and during eternity was brought out of the dormant stage and given life.  Like reproduces like…God reproduces God.  Omniscient?  Again I don't use that term but God knows all that could possibly be known.  He knows more than anyone could possibly know.  Has a beginning? No beginning for the person of the Father but a beginning for the Son as a SEPARATE person but not as His own substance, for His own substance was likely always within the Father.  Has an end?  God is immortal but can lay down His life if He so chooses.  Has a mother/father?  God is not male or female nor does a reproduction of God come from a male or female but another of His kind.  God is complete within Himself but takes on the male pronoun.
#7 What do you call 'body?' That which contains the spirit and soul.
#8 What do you call 'spirit?' The inner person in some contexts, the body type in other contexts.

Extra credit
How do you define God?  The highest type of being above any other type of being.
And each essence of Him? Body, Soul and Spirit.

There you go David.  My thought out response but I must add a disclaimer…this is an imperfect response by someone that cannot know these answers to their fullest and can only truely and completely be answered by God Himself.

Sincerely,
Kathi

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2010,12:42)

Hi ED, The will of God is done in heaven but has not been done on earth. One third of the heavenly angels are to be expelled from heaven to purify it[Rev12] God wants His footstool back under His will and freed from the squatter's domination of the god of this earth. The plan began with Abraham and Moses and now God has sent his anointed Son and continued the liberation with all men invited to help this plan. His Creative and powerful Spirit does all this in creation and will complete it with the victors sharing the spoils.

Hi Nick,

Psalm 110:1-2 The LORD (יהוה האלהים) said unto my Lord (יהשוע המשיח),
Sit thou “at my right hand”, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength (HolySpirit) out of Zion:
rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. (Rev. 19:15 / 2 Thess. 2:8)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[martian]

What/Who is the Holy Spirit? To understand this we must see the “Holy Spirit” from the perspective of the Hebrews themselves.
The Hebrew nation up untill about 100AD had it’s own very different culture. The battle between the Greek or Western Culture and the Easter Culture of the Jews finally came to a close with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
A few kep points to understand about Hebrew culture….
The were concete thinkers. They saw things by virture of what they could hear, see, taste, smell, and touch. Abstract concepts like “believe” or “create from nothing” were not in their vocabulary.
An example would be “wind.” The Hebrews were a nomadic people and would be guided by the tradewinds to guage direction and season. They could not see the wind but could see it’s effects on the leaves of the trees or the sand at their feet. Neither could they see God but they could see his effect on the creation. So thinking in picture stories and concretely they called him a wind or breath, which is translated to English scriptures as “Spirit”. Later on the word “Holy” was added to this. The Hebrew concept of holy is “set asside for a special purpose”. The utemsils of the Tabernacle were called Holy because they were for special purposes. The word Holy was added to differentiate between a “normal” wind and the moving of God upon his creation.

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Yes that kingdom is now established on earth among God's enemies.[Lk16.16]

God and his Christ in heaven live and work through the body of Christ on earth as the Spirit.[gal, 2.20, phil 2.13, 4.13]

Soon the bridegroom will return to rejoin his brothers and they will be be priests and kings with him.[mt 25, rev 19- 20, 2Tim 2 11-13]

[NickHassan]

Hi M,
The Spirit is of our Holy God.
Everything of God or used by God is Holy.

[shimmer]

LU, ok, thanks for the advice.

David, My apologies to you and EdJ.

I'l turn a new leaf.

[JustAskin]

The Scriptures tells us what the holy Spirit is ……….

The Holy Spirit is …… THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD – The HOLY SPIRIT of the Father

Is this hard to fathom that a Scripture can be just simple clear and concise?

Who posted this thread and Why…?

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2010,06:12)

Hi ED, 1) Yes that kingdom is now established on earth among God's enemies.[Lk16.16] 2) God and his Christ in heaven live and work through the body of Christ on earth as the Spirit.[gal, 2.20, phil 2.13, 4.13] 3) Soon the bridegroom will return to rejoin his brothers and they will be be priests and kings with him.[mt 25, rev 19- 20, 2Tim 2  11-13]

Hi Nick,

1) So True!

2) Also True.

3) This point is still very sticky for you? (Click Here)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
You will not meet the Lord?
If you share his Spirit you will.

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Lk 19 13f. Mt 25

Make sure the investment God gives his children yields a return.
He will summon his servants to give an account of their stewardship when he returns.
His enemies who have offered their alternative teachings will be summoned too and dealt to. [ lk 19.27]

[karmarie]

The Holy Spirit is the bridge to God within. It is the part of your mind—the part of your Spirit—that is joined with the Mind of God. The Holy Spirit is the voice for God and acts as a reminder of Gods love. God loves His children so much that He wanted them to always know that they are safe, they are loved, and they are whole. God gave this voice and this voice is now a part of them. It is the eternal perspective of Truth, Love, and Reality. It is the voice of God instilled within and the ever present reminder of the truth of Who and What they are and the Love their Father has for them.

Take care.

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2009,14:37)

Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate “being” of the triune God.  I suggest this was not the message of scriptures.  It is never mentioned of the Spirit as being the “third person of the trinity” anywhere in scriptures.   As Michael L. Brown says in Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus,” p. 53: Quote …Is the “Spirit of God” the same as “God”? Yes and no.  The Spirit clearly has personality, since the Holy Spirit instructs the people of Israel and can be grieved or angered. Yet the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God-i.e., God's very Spirit, he is both giving himself as well as giving of himself.  The key is always this: God touches us, teaches us, interacts with us, and empowers us by his Spirit. With that understanding it is very easy to understand why the “Holy Spirit” is not mentioned along with the Father in these following verses since references speaking of the person of the Father would assume that the innermost part of the Father to obviously be included in His person. See below and you will find plenty of scriptures that you would think would mention all “three persons” of the trinity but doesn't: Matt 24:36 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NASU John 5:23 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. NASU John 5:26 26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; NASU John 6:40 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” NASU John 6:46 46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. NASU 1 John 2:23-24 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. NASU 2 John 3 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. NASU 2 John 9 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. NASU Peace and love, Kathi

Greetings LU…..With reference to Michael L Brown,just because you get published does not mean your writings are true or factual….The spirit of God is his essense or his whole being….He is spirit…There is no yes and no..God is Spirit and there is no triangulation of his being…BTW I have not read MLBs' book,but if he is wrong about this Iam sure he is wrong about other aspects….

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2010,15:02)

Hi ED, You will not meet the Lord? If you share his Spirit you will.

Hi Nick,

I already do share in the “HolySpirit”!
Are these verses NOT in 'your Bible'?

2Cor:3:18: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of [The LORD], are
changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by [The HolySpirit of the LORD].
Eph.4:13-18 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man(Feast of Booths), unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind
of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the
edifying of itself in love. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other
Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life
of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (Click Here and Here)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
These verses are written to those who live in the Spirit but not carnal men.
have you been reborn from above yet?

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2010,05:26)

Hi ED, These verses are written to those who live in the Spirit but not carnal men. have you been reborn from above yet?

Hi Nick,

Now you getting like Oxy. When someone disagrees
with you, you then question there place in the body!
It is therefore obvious that neither you nor Oxy have
the gift of discerning of spirits of which I do Possess!

1Cor.12:4-21 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And
there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh
all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge
by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing
by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that
one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members
of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one
[HolySpirit are we all baptized into one body] (Matt.3:11 / Mark 1:8 / Luke 3:16 / John 1:33),
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink
into one [HolySpirit]. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because
I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say,
Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body
were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now
hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all
one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye
cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
If you have tasted the gifts from above why do you not abide in scripture?

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Mirror anyone?
You most common response to disagreement is to point to the rejection of the anointed ones.

[Lightenup]

Quote (shimmer @ July 24 2010,17:15)

LU, ok, thanks for the advice. David, My apologies to you and EdJ. I'l turn a new leaf.

You're welcome…I wish you all the best! Iron sharpens iron

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