- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,16:01) Ed J. Being born again does not mean you lose all sense of reason as God after all is rational and what he states does not conflict with anything else he states. In fact God challenges those who seek him to reason with him in Isaiah 1:18 and that is a challenge I am overjoyed to take. I freely admit in order for that reason to both sound and valid it must be guided by the Spirit of Righteousness.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))Hi Kerwin,
Let us reason together than! (Isaiah 1:18)
Isn't your “Spirit” that is within you, you;
rather than the husk housing your Spirit? (Rom.8:16)
In much the same way God's Spirit is God rather than you,
once God's Spirit is resident within you; correct? (Mark 13:11)John 1:1 In the beginning was…
“The Word“, and “The Word“ ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) was with [YHVH], and “The Word“ (HolySpirit) was [YHVH].
2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that [YHVH] (HolySpirit) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their
trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us “The Word“ of reconciliation ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs). (John 1:1)Your brother in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Eccl.9:14-16)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (John 14:12 / Isaiah 60:13-15)[/quote]Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,17:34) Ed J., I enjoy reasoning with you. It is my concern that you confusing God's soul with his spirit. From what I understand the soul is the person themselve while the spirit is the guiding principles that person lives by. God's spirit therefore is the love he fells for each and everyone of us as well as himself. When we live by God's spirit we love others as well as ourselves as God intends us to and in this way we obey the righteous requirements of his laws. Even though we obey God's commandments we do not become God but merely become the adobe of his loving spirit and effect of written or oral words pale beside the experience.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,How does Rom.8:16 square with your reasoning?
According to Rom.8:16 we have our own Spirit.
Is NOT our spirit the essence of who we are?Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: (Matt.18:16)Just what are you trying to say: God having a soul? (Deut.4:12)
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J.
I am declaring that I am confident that God has a soul not only because scripture states so but because the nature of things is that the soul is the individual. A “person” without a soul is not truly a person but merely an automaton such as the robots currently being employed by BP in the Gulf of Mexico or the computer you are accessing. As for a scripture see Psalms 11:5.
As for what I obtain from Romans 8:16 in relationship to my reasoning it fits real nicely since Paul is not addressing children of God’s flesh but rather children who are God’s children in that they love as God loves and so behave as God would in the same situation. Just because they behave in the same way as he does not make them him just as me behaving the same way as you in a certain circumstance does not make me you. My support in scripture which feel is not really need as the very nature of God testifies to this already is 1 John 3:10 and 1 John 5:2.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,
What you are trying to say is unclear to me.
Please explain what you are trying to say…
Are you saying… A soul is a body or husk?
Are you saying… God has a body like we do?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 25 2010,14:01) Hi Kerwin, What you are trying to say is unclear to me.
Please explain what you are trying to say…
Are you saying… A soul is a body or husk?
Are you saying… God has a body like we do?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.The soul in not the flesh. The soul merely inhabits flesh. The soul is not the spirit the soul is guided by the spirit.
You can have a soul and spirit that are divided with one desiring to do all that God commands and the other guiding one to disobey God. This is the strugle Paul speaks of in Romans 7:7-25. It is this struggle that is resolved by receiving and living according to the spirit of righteousness as witnessed in Galatians 5:16-26.
It is only through obeying all the teachings of Jesus the Mediator that they become peaceful with one another and to God and that because one gets a new spirit and put the old one to death. One does not put their soul to death as their soul is them.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,19:17) Ed J. …one gets a new spirit and put the old one to death. One does not put their soul to death as their soul is them.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,/
What you said here does not square with this verse…
Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: (Matt.18:16)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 25 2010,14:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,19:17) Ed J. …one gets a new spirit and put the old one to death. One does not put their soul to death as their soul is them.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,/
What you said here does not square with this verse…
Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: (Matt.18:16)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.,What I state squares with what Ephesians 4:20-24 as we all know the new man is the spirit of righteousness and therefore the old man is the old spirit we are to put to death. Does not Roman 6:2-7 teach us the same lesson?
I agree that God's spirit does bear witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
I am somewhat confused on the issue since there is only one Holy spirit but perhaps the answer is simply that the one type of Holy spirit and that spirit is righteous even those there are more than one exact copy of that spirit. If that is the case maybe the Spirit of God transforms our spirit into a righteous spirit and thus puts the spirit it was to death.
This last paragraph is just my path of investigation and not what I am confident of at this time. If you have insight into the solution to the dilemma I am attempting to answer feel free to share it.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,20:17) Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2010,14:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,19:17) Ed J. …one gets a new spirit and put the old one to death. One does not put their soul to death as their soul is them.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,/
What you said here does not square with this verse…
Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: (Matt.18:16)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.,What I state squares with what Ephesians 4:20-24 as we all know the new man is the spirit of righteousness and therefore the old man is the old spirit we are to put to death. Does not Roman 6:2-7 teach us the same lesson?
I agree that God's spirit does bear witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
I am somewhat confused on the issue since there is only one Holy spirit but perhaps the answer is simply that the one type of Holy spirit and that spirit is righteous even those there are more than one exact copy of that spirit. If that is the case maybe the Spirit of God transforms our spirit into a righteous spirit and thus puts the spirit it was to death.
This last paragraph is just my path of investigation and not what I am confident of at this time. If you have insight into the solution to the dilemma I am attempting to answer feel free to share it.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,Couldn't what 'you' refer to as the 'soul' actually be the 'ego';
the very thing that needs to be put to death; rather than the “Spirit”?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgKerwin: Here is a thought. It seems to me that since pure God spirit is everywhere and in everything that it must be contained or embodied for any form of personal individuality. When God breathed into mans physical body, he became a living soul.Gods spirit fills and animates the soul within the body. It appears to me that the soul is the body or house for the pure spirit of God to contain it and they dwell within the physical body of the human being. The soul and spirit are the essence of the individual. When the body is shed the essence of the individual is still embodied in with the soul and continues its journey. IMO with love, TK
Ed J.,
“Ego” is a psychological term and because of that I am not sure it exactly fits the definition of “soul” as used in scripture though there are similarities.
“Spirit” on the other hand would be closer to a combination of the id and superego. Onece again I am not sure it is an exact fit.
If you look at the definitions of those terms then perhaps you will see why I am stating it is the Spirit and not the soul that must be put to death.
The superego is the portion guided by the letter of the Law while the id is the portion that is the animal instincts of the human being.
Sigmund Freud may well have been “borrowing” his ideas from scriptures and altering the names to conceal their origion.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Tim Kraft,
I agree with you that God is all present and so that means that both his soul and spirit are all present. Never the less, it does not follow that the wicked have the soul of God though it is present in their bodies as it is in a rock or even in space where nothing exists.
We know from scripture that the righteous before the new covenant could not live by the spirit because scripture attests that the Righteous Spirit is a gift of the new covenant that was not obtainable before. Since we know this we also know that those that were credited with righteousness before the new covenant was established could not live by the spirit even though the spirit and soul of God was present in them as it is in all things. Like the wicked they also did not have the soul of God which is living and scripture speaks of dead souls.
It is true that God first created Adam but Adam was not living until God breathed life into him. It seems reasonable to conclude that God created Adam with a soul but the soul was pre-living before God breathed life into him. I state is seems reasonable that if there is a dead soul then there can also be a pre-living soul just like there is a pre-living body. This is just reasonable speculation as scripture does not literally speak of such as far as I know though it does fit the situation described in scripture.
The general idea you are expressing about the soul and body continuing its journey after shedding the flesh of this world seems correct but the details seem to be in error. As far as I understand the terms the soul itself is the essential individual while the spirit is what that soul lives by. The soul is like a rudderless ship without the spirit unable to be steered. So the spirit is necessary for the soul to function, though perhaps not to exist.
If your spirit is corrupt then the soul is steered toward corruption even though the soul may hunger and thirst for righteousness. If the spirit is righteous then your soul is steered toward righteousness and a soul that loves darkness will reject it. Thus the desires of their soul are the difference between the children of God and the children of Satan.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin……..God's Soul (IS) the Creation He lives (IN), without a Body there can exist (NO) Soul as with man so with God. God's Soul is his creation , Remember GOD is Spirit but he also lives (IN) bodies. So it would make sense that He also had a Soul. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2010,21:27) Tim Kraft, I agree with you that God is all present and so that means that both his soul and spirit are all present. Never the less, it does not follow that the wicked have the soul of God though it is present in their bodies as it is in a rock or even in space where nothing exists.
We know from scripture that the righteous before the new covenant could not live by the spirit because scripture attests that the Righteous Spirit is a gift of the new covenant that was not obtainable before. Since we know this we also know that those that were credited with righteousness before the new covenant was established could not live by the spirit even though the spirit and soul of God was present in them as it is in all things. Like the wicked they also did not have the soul of God which is living and scripture speaks of dead souls.
It is true that God first created Adam but Adam was not living until God breathed life into him. It seems reasonable to conclude that God created Adam with a soul but the soul was pre-living before God breathed life into him. I state is seems reasonable that if there is a dead soul then there can also be a pre-living soul just like there is a pre-living body. This is just reasonable speculation as scripture does not literally speak of such as far as I know though it does fit the situation described in scripture.
The general idea you are expressing about the soul and body continuing its journey after shedding the flesh of this world seems correct but the details seem to be in error. As far as I understand the terms the soul itself is the essential individual while the spirit is what that soul lives by. The soul is like a rudderless ship without the spirit unable to be steered. So the spirit is necessary for the soul to function, though perhaps not to exist.
If your spirit is corrupt then the soul is steered toward corruption even though the soul may hunger and thirst for righteousness. If the spirit is righteous then your soul is steered toward righteousness and a soul that loves darkness will reject it. Thus the desires of their soul are the difference between the children of God and the children of Satan.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
kerwinyou say;We know from scripture that the righteous before the new covenant could not live by the spirit because scripture attests that the Righteous Spirit is a gift of the new covenant that was not obtainable before. Since we know this we also know that those that were credited with righteousness before the new covenant was established could not live by the spirit even though the spirit and soul of God was present in them as it is in all things. Like the wicked they also did not have the soul of God which is living and scripture speaks of dead souls
and what about Abel,Enoch,Noah,Abraham,Isaac,Jacob,Joseph,Daniel,David,and all the prophets like Moses they all have live and did the will of God ,Spirit =will this is why it is present in the wicket as well ,why should the wicket lie to himself,or give stones to eat to his children,do you understand this?
Pierre
Hi T,
The spirit and soul of God is present in all things?
God is close but not in sinners.
Acts 17, Ps 139In the OT they had the food of the Spirit in the Word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2010,05:57) Hi T,
The spirit and soul of God is present in all things?
God is close but not in sinners.
Acts 17, Ps 139In the OT they had the food of the Spirit in the Word.
nickyou say;The spirit and soul of God is present in all things?
nick,i know God is spirit ,and his will and power is spell out through out all creation,
is there a scripture that talks about God soul??
but not in sinners;is God not bring sun and rain to all??
it is Gods will that is either in us to produce the fruits of it .
or you can use the will of God for your own purpose and so deny the power of the will,but that same will ,will condemn
you because you have rejected your God and he will not save you ,because you have not stored any riches in heavenyou say;In the OT they had the food of the Spirit in the Word
the difference between the OT and NT is simply that the NT is the final arrangement in Gods will to reconcile men to him.
but the will of God has never changed.
Pierre
Hi T,
Yes 2 i know of, one in Ps 11 and another in Isaiah.
God offers salvation to all but Jesus is the door to the tree of life.
God's will is that we listen to His son and come to him to enter the kingdom.Seek first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you.
Intellectual acceptance of truth is not enough.
you must be born againPierre,
The prophet Jeremiah speaks God's Word in Chapter 31 verses 31-33 to foretell how the new covenant differs from that which those of the Old Testament knew. We are told that the law will be written on our hearts and put in our mind. Those of the Old Testament did not have that advantage that we gain by living according to the Spirit. If they did then there would be no purpose for the new covenant to be established.
They are credited with righteousness because they believed God and so if they did have the new covenant they would have entered it. They did look forward to the time of the new covenant as scripture testifies.
I know the wicked live in God as Paul taught those in Athens that all men do. I also am sure they do not reach out for God even though given the opportunity. I am told in John they do not reach out because they love the darkness.
I hope this answers your questions.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2010,07:25) Hi T,
Yes 2 i know of, one in Ps 11 and another in Isaiah.
God offers salvation to all but Jesus is the door to the tree of life.
God's will is that we listen to His son and come to him to enter the kingdom.Seek first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you.
Intellectual acceptance of truth is not enough.
you must be born again
nickthanks i found it Is;1-14 this his Gods being, just as the soul of men is us in the fullest of are being.
you say;God's will is that we listen to His son and come to him to enter the kingdom
this is true,but it as to be done truthfully with our heart,and actions,then we will be blessed with understanding and not floating every were ,it is the true application of Gods word that help us to separate from this world of wicketness.
intelectual knowledge do not act to gods will it only preaches it ,and make money.
PierreQuote (kerwin @ June 26 2010,07:54) Pierre, The prophet Jeremiah speaks God's Word in Chapter 31 verses 31-33 to foretell how the new covenant differs from that which those of the Old Testament knew. We are told that the law will be written on our hearts and put in our mind. Those of the Old Testament did not have that advantage that we gain by living according to the Spirit. If they did then there would be no purpose for the new covenant to be established.
They are credited with righteousness because they believed God and so if they did have the new covenant they would have entered it. They did look forward to the time of the new covenant as scripture testifies.
I know the wicked live in God as Paul taught those in Athens that all men do. I also am sure they do not reach out for God even though given the opportunity. I am told in John they do not reach out because they love the darkness.
I hope this answers your questions.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwinhow can you believe without acting to the requirements of God ??
you should read JOB.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2010,13:54) Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2010,10:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2010,22:04) David, Though I am convinced your conclusion is correct the logic behind is flawed. Language can be applied in ways that are seemingly not sensible and showing ownership is such I case. The word combo “myself” shows the flaw in your logic since it is a case where I posses me.
Ed though obviously does not know what a spirit is or he would see the flaw in his own argument. A spirit is not the individual or an individual would litterally perish when immersed in water and be reborn as a new individual inhabbiting the same body. As it is we figuratively perish in that we gain a new guiding principle but neverless we are still ourselves.
I wonder what Ed believes the soul is since that is what I believe is our essential self.
Hi Kerwin,Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God:God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjyou say;Rom.8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of Godcould elaborate more on this so we may understand what it means
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,I feel sorry for you that 'you' don NOT understand what Rom.8:16 means!
Any time someone explains something to you Pierre, you attack them;
but whenever Scriptures are used with exclusivity you grow silent!John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive,
because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know
him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 3:3-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus
saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the
second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily,
verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he
cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
