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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,06:05) Hi KW,
Flesh is of the dust of earth and returns to the earth.[Gen2-3]
Do you believe scripture testifies that angels have flesh?Hi KW,
Scripture tells of angels appearing as men and often being confused with men.
It speaks of angels taking women as wives.
It speaks of angel's food[manna]Can you tell us more?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,12:23) Hi KW,
Scripture tells of angels appearing as men and often being confused with men.
It speaks of angels taking women as wives.
It speaks of angel's food[manna]Can you tell us more?
They eat and prepared to sleep. One touched Lot and pulled him back into the house. They seem to have at least a limited ability to alter their shape. The also have other miraculous powers.Hi KW,
You speak of when they are as men on earth?
Becoming as men is such a power given to them but they are not flesh.Flesh is of earth and they are of heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,13:01) Hi KW,
You speak of when they are as men on earth?
Becoming as men is such a power given to them but they are not flesh.Flesh is of earth and they are of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:39-44(KJV) reads:Quote All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It sounds like we are being taught that their is natural flesh as well as spiritual flesh.
We do not have spiritual flesh at the current time though we do have a spirit and a soul.
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 03 2009,15:26) Nick………..Jesus ascended into heaven in a (flesh body) it was not spirit, itself, that ascended , it was Spirit in a body, AS Jesus (PLAINLY) Said, a Spirit does (NOT) have FLESH and (BONE) as you see i have, that was right after he went through the door and stood among them. I do believe Jesus was in the Kingdom of God, Don't you, you said flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of GOD , That is true, flesh and bone, can not either, but then again, the Kingdom of GOD comes (into) flesh without observation it says. God's Kingdom is a Spiritual Kingdom , but can exist in flesh and bone or blood as far as that goes. You assume that When Jesus said Flesh and Blood can not go (into) the kingdom of GOD he was speaking Physically going into it , yes, no physical thing can (GO) into the kingdom of GOD, But the Kingdom of GOD (CAN) go into it. Another words God is SPIRIT and can be in the Person and then His kingdom is also in Him. That GOD may be in (ALL) and through (ALL). Jesus never said the kingdom of GOD could not be (IN) a flesh and blood person did He? While it is impossible for flesh and blood to enter the kingdom of GOD, it is not impossible for the kingdom of God to be in HIM is it? So much assumptions so little understanding, the source of confusion and MYSTERY RELIGIONS. IMO gene
Gene: Amen, thank God for your truth!! TKQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,17:23) Hi KW,
Scripture tells of angels appearing as men and often being confused with men.
It speaks of angels taking women as wives.
It speaks of angel's food[manna]Can you tell us more?
Let me tell you what happened almost 17 years ago. Our Daughter with Granddaughter lived in an Apartment on the second floor, with a Balcony. On the Balcony stood a Grill. In order to climb over the railing our Granddaughter had to climb on the Grill and then jump down. Our Daughter saw Her do this,and screamed. She ran down and found Tiffany on the ground. Neighbors had gathered because of our Daughters scream. They saw a Man leaving our Granddaughter Tiffany. Our Daughter Cindy took Tiffany to the Hospital just make sure that she was O.K even though she seemed to be. There was not a scrag on Her and was not hurt at all. That was a Miracle. They even said that in the Hospital.
So yes, there are Angels in Human form. That Angel saved our Granddaughters life. Tiffany is a special person who loves God.
She wrote me a get Well letter, when I was sick. She signed it:” I love you and so does God. She was only about 10 years
old then. I still have the letter and it is hanging on the wall in my room. Last year at age 16 She got Baptized.
Sorry Nick this should be in another tread.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 03 2009,19:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,13:01) Hi KW,
You speak of when they are as men on earth?
Becoming as men is such a power given to them but they are not flesh.Flesh is of earth and they are of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:39-44(KJV) reads:Quote All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It sounds like we are being taught that their is natural flesh as well as spiritual flesh.
We do not have spiritual flesh at the current time though we do have a spirit and a soul.
Hi KW,
So earthly beings are of flesh from the soil and there are different kinds but all are of earth,while celestial bodies are shown to be different again from such earthly fleshly ones.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 04 2009,03:35) Hi KW,
Flesh is never mentioned in regard to any heavenly beings is it?
Then let me ask you a question, how did the Angels that came down and saw the Daughters of man beautiful and they married them. The Sons of man. At that time they were the Angels, and they are, right?
And they produced Giants.
Genesis 6:2-3
I want to add, that I am certain that what happened to Tiffany was God's intervention, I believe it was an Angel protecting Her. If it happened in the Old Testament time, why can't it happen now, with good Angels.
IreneNick Hassan wrote:
Quote The body of man comes from the soil of earth and returns to that soil. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
That I agree with though it does bring up an interesting point in regards to another of Paul’s teachings.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4(KJV) reads:
Quote I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Why it even possible this man Paul knew was caught up into heaven while still in body if flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven?Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The spirit given to men is not corrupt. It belongs to God and returns to him at our death.[ecc12]
I am assuming you are speaking of the reborn spirit and not the original spirit Paul calls the “old man”
If so then we still obviously have our mortal flesh when we undergo a rebirth of spirit. That spirit is not our immortal flesh as we undergo the change from mortal flesh to immortal flesh when the last trump is sounded as it is written.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 reads:
Quote Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The plan of God is the salvation of the soul [1Peter1], designed to house God's Spirit but needing to be cleansed and filled.
God does work to save our souls, not destroy us by remaking them. It is the spirit he remakes by putting the old one to death when we undergo the miracle at baptism. It is the flesh he remakes by changing our tent at the last trump.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote You must be reborn from above.
That is the rebirth of spirit not the change of mortal flesh to immortal flesh.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 04 2009,03:56) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote The body of man comes from the soil of earth and returns to that soil. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
That I agree with though it does bring up an interesting point in regards to another of Paul’s teachings.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4(KJV) reads:
Quote I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Why it even possible this man Paul knew was caught up into heaven while still in body if flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven?Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The spirit given to men is not corrupt. It belongs to God and returns to him at our death.[ecc12]
I am assuming you are speaking of the reborn spirit and not the original spirit Paul calls the “old man”
If so then we still obviously have our mortal flesh when we undergo a rebirth of spirit. That spirit is not our immortal flesh as we undergo the change from mortal flesh to immortal flesh when the last trump is sounded as it is written.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 reads:
Quote Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The plan of God is the salvation of the soul [1Peter1], designed to house God's Spirit but needing to be cleansed and filled.
God does work to save our souls, not destroy us by remaking them. It is the spirit he remakes by putting the old one to death when we undergo the miracle at baptism. It is the flesh he remakes by changing our tent at the last trump.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote You must be reborn from above.
That is the rebirth of spirit not the change of mortal flesh to immortal flesh.
Hi Kerwin,
Many people claim to have gone to heaven or somewhere in the spiritual realm and then return. They claim that the body that they are in while visiting the spiritual realm is different, for instance their arm can pass through their body, they can convey thoughts telepathically, they can go from one place to another by just thinking it, or they just show up. These people are the ones claiming near death experiences. It is quite remarkable how common these stories are and how similar they speak about their different bodies and then they return into their original body. I think there is so much that we do not know about in this area of out of body experiences. I know that sometimes I would have preferred to have gone “out of body” rather than remained in tact.
Blessings,
KathiHi KW,
1.Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.The old man is the FLESH.
The body of Jesus was crucified.Sin is of the earthly origins of the body of man, sold into bondage and and owned by the god of this world.
“Who will set me free from the body of this death?” Rom7
The spirit returns to God. Salvation of the soul is the plan of God
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2009,03:26) Hi KW, 1.Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.The old man is the FLESH.
The body of Jesus was crucified.Sin is of the earthly origins of the body of man, sold into bondage and and owned by the god of this world.
“Who will set me free from the body of this death?” Rom7
The spirit returns to God. Salvation of the soul is the plan of God
What does “reborn” of spirit mean?That is what that passage in Roman 6 is describing.
The writers did on some occasions use flesh to as a synonym for the corrupt spirit of man.
definition for sarx(flesh) at searchgodsword.org on November 5, 2009 reads:
Quote the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
It sounds like you are delving into a gnostic teaching when you accuse the physical flesh of being the source of sin. That actually goes with what you believe about the resurected body. Strangely enough for how much the Gnostics are bashed some of their teachings have infiltrated Christian thought.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2009,02:33) Hi Kerwin,
Many people claim to have gone to heaven or somewhere in the spiritual realm and then return. They claim that the body that they are in while visiting the spiritual realm is different, for instance their arm can pass through their body, they can convey thoughts telepathically, they can go from one place to another by just thinking it, or they just show up. These people are the ones claiming near death experiences. It is quite remarkable how common these stories are and how similar they speak about their different bodies and then they return into their original body. I think there is so much that we do not know about in this area of out of body experiences. I know that sometimes I would have preferred to have gone “out of body” rather than remained in tact. Blessings,
Kathi
I am not quite sure how to respond. I do know that angels who have immortal flesh are able to touch others but I also know their form seems to be able to shift their shape so I suppose that they can allow their arm to pass through their body. From what I have read I believe Jesus appeared in a locked room after his death and resurrection even though the disciples were able to touch him. So everything you state appears to be plausible.
Hi KW,
Rebirth from above is the same as the one we follow went through at the Jordan and the rebirth we see by the hands of the apostles in Acts.
Begun as an downpayment if allowed to lead manifests in the God of Israel producing His words and works through us.
We are meant to do even greater works than Jesus did by that Spirit.The fleshly works are shown by contrast in Gal5 and Paul was no gnostic.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2009,12:23) Hi KW,
Rebirth from above is the same as the one we follow went through at the Jordan and the rebirth we see by the hands of the apostles in Acts.
Begun as an downpayment if allowed to lead manifests in the God of Israel producing His words and works through us.
We are meant to do even greater works than Jesus did by that Spirit.The fleshly works are shown by contrast in Gal5 and Paul was no gnostic.
I agree that Paul is no gnostic but you are using the wrong definition for “flesh” when you interpret his words. I am just trying to correct that by pointing out that the rebirth in spirit is when our old spirit of man, i.e. old man, is replaced by the spirit of righteousness.It just happens in choosing the definition of flesh as the physical body you are interpreting Paul's words in the same way a believer in Gnosticism would.
One of the main features of Gnosticism is that the human body is evil and that is certainly what I seem to be hearing from you. I do not hear it from scripture.
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