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Berean: JESUS IS NOT THE ALMIGHTY GOD (FATHER)
BUT HE HAS THE DIVINE NATURE OF HIS
FATHER…THE WORD: “god” is also applied for thé “angels”
Psalms 8:5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels(elohiym), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.You and I are not too far off. Most erroneously claim that the Hebrew culture and the Bible are “strictly monotheistic”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The entire Bible is chock full of all kinds of different gods… Molech, Yahweh, Dagon, Michael, Ashteroth, Gabriel, Baal, Satan… and many more. After all, Yahweh couldn’t be the MOST HIGH God if there weren’t less high gods. He couldn’t be the God OF gods if there weren’t other gods that he was the God OF.
So since you agree that Jesus isn’t the Almighty God… is it possible that Jesus is also one of those less high gods that the Father is the God OF?
(I have no argument for Jesus having divine nature, since I agree with that.)
Mike,
I have wrestled with those passages as you have and I have an example in nature that helps me understand, I found an example in nature of how the Father and the Son can both be the same eternal age. Are you ready for that discussion?
Berean: Hi Jodi
The subject is: WHO IS “THE WORD”?
Yes or no ?
THE BIBLE SAYS THAT “THE WORD” IS CHRIST HIMSELF. (JOHN 1; REVELATION 19)That was a good post, B. What say you, Jodi? Does the Bible say equate “the Word” with “Jesus”?
Lightenup: Together they created as one creator Jehovah God. They did not act separately, they acted interdependently, united in their Holy Spirit as one spirit.
Can one creator have two different wills?
Lightenup: Mike,
I have wrestled with those passages as you have and I have an example in nature that helps me understand, I found an example in nature of how the Father and the Son can both be the same eternal age. Are you ready for that discussion?
Probably not! 😁 Just kidding… lay it on me, sister. Just know that I’ve been working a lot, so if you (or anyone else) doesn’t see a prompt answer, I will get to it by the weekend.
Haha, ok Mike. The example in nature is actually the simplest created organism with reproductive potential…a single cell, the first single cell of it’s kind at the time of creation. When that cell goes through the asexual reproductive process, it ends up with two identical cells with the same essence and the same aged essence in both. The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell. Thus there is a father and son, identical in age and essence but distinct in relationship.
Simple as that.
Hi Lightenup
You
“The example in nature is actually the simplest created organism with reproductive potential…a single cell, the first single cell of it’s kind at the time of creation. When that cell goes through the asexual reproductive process, it ends up with two identical cells with the same essence and the same aged essence in both. The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell. Thus there is a father and son, identical in age and essence but distinct in relationship.
Simple as that.”
This is the Holy Spirit !!!!
I also thought that thing
concerning the Father and the begotten Son.
The Son is truly of the same glorious and eternal substance as the Father.
They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.God bless
Hi Mike,
Berean: In the meantime, you hide the fact that Christ is the creative agent of the Father and that through Him all things were created.
I guess “creative agent” works for me, although none of us actually know for sure what it means that God created all things through Jesus. But we do indeed know that God created all things through Jesus, right? Jodi? Ed? Gene? We do know that, right?
Quit trying to change what Scripture says to fit your beliefs!
Only by his crucifixion Mike. You want to change Rev. 13:8
and discount Isaiah 44:24. This approach is inadvisable Mike.“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Rev 13:8-9)Jesus did not create nor help create in any way ..
24 “I the LORD that maketh all things;
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars” (Isaiah 44:24-25)
Edj…..no we don’t believe that Go created all things “through” Jesus, because for one Jesus did not exist till he was born on this earth. We have already produced scriptures that say the “God and alone and by himself ” created everything that exists. Isa 44:24
The problem is in the word “through” in the Greek that word can be use in many different way. The overall meaning of the word “dia” in Greek denotes a “causal” channel of an act; has a very wide applications like, “because of” like for the reason of, for sake of, but never seems to imply it was done by the “casual” person himself.
Edj…..and all, you need to really understand the actual meaning of the word “dia” in the Greek language.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Berean,
you said:I also thought that thing
concerning the Father and the begotten Son.
The Son is truly of the same glorious and eternal substance as the Father.
They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.Amen! So refreshing when people get this!!
Blessings, LU
To all,
When you get stuck with the fact that the Bible said all things were made by God alone and also it says that God made all things through the Son, it really is as simple as recognizing that Jehovah God is both the God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son) two persons. God in the fullest sense is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Two persons united in one Spirit.Therefore,
God alone made all things, true
Jehovah God who is God of gods and Lord of lords made all things, true
The Father and the Son and Spirit, alone made all things. trueAll of the above are true, just said differently.
As simple as that!Blessings, LU
Hi Mike
you:
Berean: JESUS IS NOT THE ALMIGHTY GOD (FATHER)
BUT HE HAS THE DIVINE NATURE OF HIS
FATHER…THE WORD: “god” is also applied for thé “angels”
Psalms 8:5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels(elohiym), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
You and I are not too far off. Most erroneously claim that the Hebrew culture and the Bible are “strictly monotheistic”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The entire Bible is chock full of all kinds of different gods… Molech, Yahweh, Dagon, Michael, Ashteroth, Gabriel, Baal, Satan… and many more. After all, Yahweh couldn’t be the MOST HIGH God if there weren’t less high gods. He couldn’t be the God OF gods if there weren’t other gods that he was the God OF.So since you agree that Jesus isn’t the Almighty God… is it possible that Jesus is also one of those less high gods that the Father is the God OF?
(I have no argument for Jesus having divine nature, since I agree with that.)
is it possible that Jesus is also one of those less high gods that the Father is the God OF?
(I have no argument for Jesus having divine nature, since I agree with that.)
Arguments from the Bible FOR Jesus having divine nature
Hebrews 1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds;[3] Who being the brightness of his glory(of God), and the express image of his person(of God), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;Colossians 2
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in him*JESUS CHRIST* dwelleth ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily.PAUL SAY THAT CHRIST IS BEFORE ALL THINGS/AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST
COL.1[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
CONSIST:
4921
sunistaw
sunistao
soon-is-tah’-o,
sunistano soon-is-tan’-o, or sunistemi soon-is’-tay-mee from sun – sun 4862 and isthmi – histemi 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute:–approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with).JESUS BEING BEFORE ALL THINGS
HE CAN’T HAVE ORIGINALLY BEEN A CREATURE OF GOD.
AT THE TIME GOD FORMED HIM A BODY IN THE BOSOM OF MARIE.THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD
GOD BLESS
Hi All,
Passages that Gene and I speak of are passed over time and time again and are NOT APPLIED, they are disregarded. You are far from the truth when you refuse to apply scripture with scripture.
The first chapter in John can be fully understood CORRECTLY through applying an abundance of other passages with it.
I am going to start with the END of the chapter,
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
JESUS IS the Son of Jehovah as the fulfillment of JEHOVAH’S WORD spoken to the prophet Nathan. Jehovah BECOMES a Father to David’s son and promises to give him an eternal throne, making him a king over Israel. Jehovah promised that He would not take His mercy (goodness) away from the son of David, a Son of Man who has Jehovah’s angels ascending and descending upon him, a son of David who would be settled in Jehovah’s house forever.
Jodi,
This should help you understand what is said in 1 Chronicles:
Continued,
Understanding John chapter 1 in truth,
One must apply these passages,
Isaiah 44: 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his SERVANT, and performeth the counsel of his MESSENGERS; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
Isaiah 45: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the MAN that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
What the LORD spoke from the beginning was of a MAN who would execute Jehovah’s purpose which He also DECLARED from the beginning, SALVATION. Eternal life was even of the LORD’S pleasure before the world began. (Titus 1:2)
Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
WHO IS God’s servant, his messenger, his ELECT? Where is he elected out from?
Deut 18: 15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Luke 22:19 And he said unto them,What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Romans 15: 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Acts 13: 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Continuing Isaiah 42,
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
READ AGAIN,
Isaiah 45: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
AND DON’T FORGET,
Isaiah 44: 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
In the beginning was the LORD’s WORD OF a MAN who would execute that which the LORD declared from the beginning, that which was His determined purpose for making the world in the first place, which was salvation, bringing forth eternal life.
The LORD’s WORD declared from the beginning was of a MAN to come who would be for a LIGHT bringing forth righteousness and life. Out of Jesse and David would rise up a savior who would fulfill all things of the LORD’S WORD that He had declared from the beginning. From among brethren a prophet rose up to declaring the LORD’S WORD and fulfill the LORD’S WORD and be given dominion over the WORD that is fulfilled.
When the LORD by himself, all alone, stretched forth the heavens and spreadeth abroad the earth He created it by reason of and for him who would fulfill all those things that the LORD had declared before the world was.
Jesus was elected from among his brethren, where the Spirit descended upon him and he was SENT to fulfill all things that the LORD had declared, purposed, were of His pleasures, before the world was. All things consist in this man BECAUSE the LORD elected him to fulfill the END, to fulfill the LORD’S promises, to fulfill eternal life that the LORD had declared before the world was.
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.THIS 3 verses are in the COLNTEXT of THE BIGINNING, OUR BIGINNING , THE BIGINNING OF OUR EARTH
WE ARE BEFORE THE TIME WERE JESUS BIGINS HIS MINISTER IN THE FLESH
GOD BLESS
Hi Lightenup,
YOU: They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.
ME: The Father and the Son though they are distinct, they are
INSEPARABLE.
The Son is eternally in the Father and the Father eternally in the Son. Also as much as within the Father there is the Holy Ghost, equivalently within the Son, there is also the Holy Ghost, since the Father and the Son are equal in every sense. This is depicted in
John2o:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them:
Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Now despite they received the Holy Ghost glorified one substance with “THE WORD” the Son of Man, in
A UNIQUE SPIRITUAL/FLESH BODY in JESUS CHRIST,
GODMAN ON EARTH, They still had to wait till they receive the Holy Spirit from the Father.
GLORIFIED and EMPOWERED IN JESUS’ UNIQUE POWER.
In order for the Father to SAVE ALL by the Holy Spirit in/with JESUS’ POWER through THE WOMAN Mary, as much as Satan condemned all through the woman Eve.
Well mentioned by Jesus in
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will convince the world of sin and of justice and of judgment.
12 I have yet many things to say to you: but
YOU CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
HE WILL TEACH YOU THE TRUTH.
For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
14 HE SHALL GLORIFY ME: because ( HE SIMPLY PERFORM ALL ONLY IN THE NAME OF JESUS)
HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE and shall shew it to you. ( POWER, WISDOM, and REVELATION)
15All things whatsoever the Father hath (REGARDING JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE) are mine. Therefore I said that
HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE and shall shew it to you.
For the sake of creation it was the task of the Son to empty Himself from His divine spirit, and became slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world.Rev.13:8. HE OFFERED HIMSELF FOR THE LOVE OF THE FATHER AND THE HUMAN RACE. By which spirit he enriched the entire human race.
HE BECAME POOR SO WE BECOME RICH.
I WONDER IF JODI EVER PRODUCED THIS SCRIPTURE HEREUNDER:
2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that being rich ( IN HIS DIVINITY)
he became poor (IN HIS HUMANITY) for your sakes:
that through his poverty you might be rich. ( BECOME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH HIM IN HIS DIVINITY on his resurrection) Mentioned by
1Peter1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead: 4Unto an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled and that cannot fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time.
as HE IS IN FULL GLORY ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
1John 3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God: and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know that when he shall appear we shall
be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.
John 17:20
And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me.
21That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; (inseparable)
that they also may be one in us:
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: (from the very beginning PRE-EXISTED, when he poured His spirit SLAIN LIKE A LAMB……and became POOR, in the process of the world.)
that, they may be one, as we also are one.
23I in them,( AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT IN EVERY CREATURES’ HEART) and thou in me: ( IN MY HEART) that they may be made
perfect in one:
and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
24Father, I will that where I am,(inseparable with the Father) they also whom thou hast given me may be with me:
(THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE one substance in Jesus as THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD on the last day of the Lord )
that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, (BEFORE CREATION)
because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.( PRE-EXISTED)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
Good words. I believe that you quoted Berean, not me there.
This is what I told Gene one page back:
Jehovah is both the God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son). Jehovah is not God of gods apart from His Son who is the Lord of lords. Together they created as one creator Jehovah God. They did not act separately, they acted interdependently, united in their Holy Spirit as one spirit.
Blessings, LU
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