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Hi Desire truth,
You: It’s what you write that is the joke.
Fine! Let’s start:
Me: ABEL WAS NEVER BORN OF EVE AT ALL THROUGH SEX BUT THROUGH GOD’S INTERVENTION!
You: have a passage that supports this?
Me YOUR OWN COMMENT ITSELF AND UNDERSTANDING!
UNLESS YOU CONTRADICT ME USING SCRIPTURE
WHAT I WROTE IS PURE TRUTH, AND IT STANDS!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ!
In other words, there is no scripture to back up what you claim and now you are deflecting. To ask me to provide you a scripture to refute your claim of Able’s “immaculate conception” is backwards. It’s okay for you to make wild comments without support, but everyone else must support what they say…understood. Hope your pedestal isn’t to high, because it’s going to hurt when you get knocked off it and come crashing down.
Then you say, yelling of course, “ WHAT I WROTE IS PURE TRUTH, AND IT STANDS!” You sound like Paul making statements “as it is written” and then proceeding to twist the OT scriptures or taking multiple passages from the OT and combining them into one, making his own “gospel.”
It’s no wonder why you refuse to say what “faith” you associate with; before you lie and claim you don’t associate with any, what you believe you got from somewhere.
Hi Desire Truth,
Hoping we can put a rest to this very soon and just get on with speaking to scripture.
I had said, “The issue at hand seems to at least be in part, which has occurred on this forum before, is in interpreting certain NT passages exactly how main stream Christian folks do and in seeing the contradiction with the OT the rejection of Jesus as our Messiah then sets in. If their interpretations were true I would have to reject Jesus as well.”
Let me try to clarify thoroughly because you did not at all understand what I said.
As a person who has ALWAYS had the MINDSET of ALIGNING the OT with the NT, as I had even “grown up in a church very much having the OT as foundation“, “I constantly use OT prophecy pointing out how many on this forum ignore what it teaches and by such hold to false doctrines”. In other words, people on this forum DO NOT have the mindset of aligning the NT with that of the Old, and by such I believe they then hold to false doctrines because those doctrines contradict the OT . People falsely interpret NT passages either through ignorance of the OT or through just denying that it should apply (the OT is not their foundation, some people even believe the NT was given to replace the OT with it becoming obsolete).
What I have seen happen on this forum before, is a person who was a believer in main stream Christian doctrine starts to look at the OT more closely looking at it in a new light that it should be the foundation and they find that it does not align with what they were taught. Instead of considering that the doctrine/interpretations were wrong they begin to just reject the NT all together and by such deny then Jesus as the Messiah.
You said, “It’s past time to verify what the NT says and ask if it aligns with the OT.”; if they align, fantastic; if they don’t, there’s a problem”.
If we do not agree on what the NT says doesn’t that directly affect how we each see if it aligns with the OT or not?
So far, I am seeing that there are definitely things that we do not agree on. For example, I believe you misunderstand Paul and if you understood his teachings as I do perhaps you would also believe as I do that his teachings do indeed align with the OT. I most certainly believe that Paul was given the Spirit of God to speak the word of God for the purpose to give us greater understanding to that which is true, concerning our God, our Messiah and man.
Hi Desire Truth,
You gave Isa 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Zech 8:20-23; Zech 9:9-10; Zech 14:16 and then you said, “I didn’t read anything about believing in the Messiah for salvation; but did read the nations were going to “stream” to God’s mountain to worship.”
ME: The purpose of my last post you missed, it was to give you OT scriptures that do indeed establish that one must believe in the Messiah for salvation which then does make the OT align with the NT. I will in fact apply the sum of all OT scripture to that of the NT.
The passages you gave all are speaking to the coming kingdom of God to which the NT speaks a great deal about, once again the OT aligns with the NT.
YOU: The Messiah is to announce peace to the world and what did Jesus say in Matt 10:34 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” How can Jesus be the Messiah?
ME: There are many passages in the OT that speak to the LORD’s day and that it is a day of vengeance where the wicked are to be destroyed. We are directly told that the Messiah will indeed slay the wicked and then he brings forth peace.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.To those that deny him he comes to bring the sword, they are not given peace and to those that believe, he brings forth the promised Spirit and eternal life in God’s kingdom and the rest therein will be glorious.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Hi Desiretruth,
You: In other words, there is no scripture to back up what you claim
and now you are deflecting.
No Not at all!
To ask me to provide you a scripture to refute your claim of Able’s “immaculate conception” is backwards.
I’ll make it clear to you:
YOU PROVIDE SCRIPTURE THAT SUPPORTS YOUR CLAIM THAT
ABEL WAS BORN THROUGH SEXUAL ACT!
Now read and reflect please:
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, saying: I have gotten a man through God.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
So who are we talking Cain or Abel?? You said Abel, but give scripture for Cain?!?!?!
Stop wasting my time; if you have a point, make it.
Hi Disertruth,
You: @Carmel,
So who are we talking Cain or Abel??
Me: CAIN AND ABEL I’M AFRAID IF YOU REALLY ARE
Desiretruth,
AND WANT THE TRUTH
You said Abel, but give scripture for Cain?!?!?!
ME: IT IS THROUGH AND IN CONTRAST WITH CAIN THAT WE ARE ABLE TO BE AWARE OF THE TRUTH!
Stop wasting my time; if you have a point, make it.
I ALREADY TOLD YOU I HANDLE MY THINGS THE WAY I AM PLEASED, NOT SUBJECT TO ANYONE, SUBJECT TO MY WRITING,
IN A WAY!
YOU: You said Abel, but give scripture for Cain?!?!?!
NOW READ WHAT I POSTED TO YOU AGAIN:
I’ll make it clear to you:
YOU PROVIDE SCRIPTURE THAT SUPPORTS YOUR CLAIM THAT
ABEL WAS BORN THROUGH SEXUAL ACT!
OK, THE QUESTION IS ABOUT ABEL, NOT ABOUT CAIN!
Now read and reflect please:
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, saying: I have gotten a man through God.
AS YOU CAN READ WE HAVE ALL THE REQUIRED SCRIPTURE AS PROOF THAT CAIN WAS CONCEIVED THROUGH SEX NO?
NOW DO THE SAME WITH ABEL’S!
I AM WAITING TO GO FORWARD FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH!
DON’T WASTE MY TIME PLEASE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi,
You: 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse,
Me: Jodi A ROOT OF JESSE!
JUST READ PLEASE:
A ROOT OF A PALM TREE!
ANSWER Jodi, and in this case also MR. GENE-IOUS,
WHO CAME FIRST AND THE BEGINNING?
THE ROOT OR THE TREE PLEASE?
IS THE ROOT THE ORIGIN OF THE PALM TREE PLEASE!
YES O NO PLEASE?
which shall stand for an ensign of the people;
to it shall the Gentiles seek:
and his rest shall be glorious.
HERE IT COMES Jodi, Gene, NICK, DT, AND ALL YOU THAT don’t accept THE TRUTH!
GLORIFIED FOR ETERNITY AS
OUR LORD GODMAN
JESUS CHRIST! John13:31,32!
The name above all names!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ!
You are one of those people who believes they are the most intelligent person in the room and then they open their mouth, in this case begin writing, only to prove they are the biggest fool in the room.
You made the wild claim they were THREE “immaculate conceptions”, conceptions done without the combination of sperm and egg, and I am the one who must prove theay didn’t happen!?!? If you have a point, which you don’t, make it! At this point I will no longer engage in your foolishness; I have already given this to much time.
Hi Desiretruth???
You: @Carmel,
You are one of those people
who believes they are the most intelligent person in the room
ME: IT IS YOUR TASK TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE TRUTH, DO YOU KNOW HOW?
I TELL YOU:
BY SIMPLY IGNORING ALL YOUR BLAH, BLAH, AND BLAH, AND HUMBLY PRODUCE THE SCRIPTURE THAT IN YOUR LEVEL OF
“INTELLIGENCE”
PROVES YOU RIGHT!
TILL THEN MINE STANDS AS TRUTH I’M AFRAID!
and then they open their mouth,
in this case begin writing,
NO FROM MY SIDE ACCORDING TO YOU THE RIGHT WORD IS:
YELLING!
only to prove they are the biggest fool in the room.
SO IS THAT THE REASON THAT YOU DON’T WANT TO ANSWER, I MEAN:
WHERE IN SCRIPTURE WE CAN READ THAT ABEL WAS CONCEIVED THROUGH SEX, SIMPLY IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THESE BIGGEST FOOLS IN THE ROOM?
MR. DESIRE TRUTH HA! HA! HA!
YOU ONLY HAVE TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND CONTRADICT ME I’M AFRAID,
IF YOU WANT YOUR DESIRE TO BE FULFILLED!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
18 And all the people were seeing the thunder and the lightning and the sound of the ram’s horn and the mountain smoking, and the people saw, and they trembled, and they stood at a distance. 19 And they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will listen, but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” 20 And Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you so that his fear will be before you so that you do not sin.” 21 And the people stood at a distance, and Moses approached the very thick cloud where God was.
You ask……>What exactly are you getting out of this passage; what you are saying, I don’t see.
I get out of it exactly what it says, The people were made “TO FEAR” by God himself, and notice Moses response “God has come to test you, “SO THAT HIS “FEAR” will be be before you, (WHY), so that you do not sin.
Question, what was goin to keep them from sinning? “THE “FEAR” OF GOD”. And God backed up that “Fear”. with harsh consequences, need proof?, Here is what happens to them when they broke the Sabbath day “LAW”, NUM 15;32-36, …..”And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they hat found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be doe to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, “THAT MAN SHALL SURELY BE PUT, “TO DEATH”: and all the congregation shall stone him to death, without the camp.”
A law “requires” punishment” for violators , and has enforcement and penalties For violations, Just as it is today. A “LAW” is not a “LAW” unless it is “ENFORCED” . and because of the penalties Law Requires “ON” its violators IF BROKEN it is “FEARED” just as it is today with our LAWS.
WHEN a Commandment is not turned into a law , it is no enforceable , common sense 101.
hope that helped clear it up for you.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth…____gene
@Gene,
We seem to be going in a circle and as I have said in the past, I hate merry-go-rounds. Please explain the difference between a “commandment” and a “law” AND give an example of each from scripture.
I’ll get to your Ex 20:20 in the christian bible; Ex 20:17 in the Hebrew bible…fascinating stuff.
Desire Truth……you ask , “please explain the difference between a commandment and a Law. I tried to Show you what a law was , It is a “enforced ” commandment. While a commandment by it self is simple a word, that is not being enforced on a person. God commanded the people of Israel a lot of times and they did not obey him , that is why he turns his (loving Commandment’s) into Laws (enforced words).
All laws work through enforcements, which creates “FEAR” , because of the penalties taken on the violators, these “penalties ” invoke “Fear” so people will adhere to them. The problem with that is “LAWS” while regulating a persons life through the working of “FEAR” for violation them , can “NEVER” make a person right in their heart.
That was what the Apostle Paul’s WHOLE POINT, and he was absolutely right. “By obedience to LAW, no flesh shall be justified before God”….> why? Because obeying a “LAW” can t make you right in your heart. That takes a whole “new creation”. And that is what God does by his “Holy Spirit” In us. Or haven’t you ever read in the Old Testament where God said , …..>“I will take out of you the “Stony” heart and give you a heart of flesh (soft heart), and I will write my law in you “inter parts”. Who will do that? The “LAW”. ? , NO, God the Father will. Is the Law Against the words of God “NO”, it’s just powerless to create a person right in their heart. That was Paul’s whole point, and he in my view was also lute right.
The “Law” Was made for evil people, the ungodly and sinners. It doesn’t say the commandments were , now does it> hope that helps explain it to you Desire Truth.
peace and love to you and yours DT………..gene
To all…….What Jodi is posting here is exactly right, please read her posts very carefully and think about what she is saying.
peace and love to you all and yours………gene
Hi desiretruth,
If you don’t want to accept God’s Son, Jesus Christ, then why are you here? This is a Christian forum.
Nobody needs your disbelief.
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38DesireTruth……..Are we in agreement, on this, By the “works” of law, (the way law works) no flesh can be MADE RIGHT IN THEIR HEART? Do we at least agree on that?
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Danny…….Desire Truth is right on his last post to you brother, who is your “first love” , Remember what Jesus told the church at Ephesus, in revelations. They lost their “first love” for God the Father, and unless they repented, they would lose their standing.
peace and love to you and yours…….gene
Hi Carmel and All,
Trees have roots as in plural.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rhizaroot– a root
that which like a root springs FROM A ROOT, a sprout, shootLuke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Romans 816 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
- Jesus is the offspring of David.
- Before David even existed one of his offspring was declared by God to bring forth salvation.
- Also since the world began, one of David’s offspring was promised to be made into a Son of God, receive the promised Spirit and be settled into God’s house forever and he would be a firstborn of many brethren.
Romans 8:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Jesus is the offspring of David. Is he in Revelation 22 called the root of David because he is a root springing forth from a root?
Or
Is he called the root of David because without him David would have never been born in the first place and because without him David would not himself receive the promised Holy Spirit unto righteousness and eternal life?
Is not the offspring of David also a root of the promised Holy Spirit to which because of that root more roots spring forth of the promised Holy Spirit?
Is not the offspring of David, Jesus Christ, also a judge and rewarder from the first to the last, wherein David himself is among them who is to be rewarded?
Jesus according to scripture is the root of David, he is a root that sprung forth from a root, as he is the offspring of David. But also according to scripture, David is to be a root springing forth from a root, Jesus Christ, or we could also say David is a branch from the vine, Jesus Christ.
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
David believed in the word of God concerning his offspring, that his own salvation and resurrection unto eternal life would come through him. David was a branch to the vine before the vine even existed. David was a believer in Jesus Christ.
Hi desiretruth,
You: Is your worship about Jesus, God, or the belief in christianity? There can only be one…
Me: I worship both God and His Son Jesus Christ.
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Amen and Amen.
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