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Jodi
No mere man can ascend up to heaven, nor descend from it, to obtain wisdom. But Jesus descended and then ascended to sit at God’s right hand (John 3:13; Eph 4:9). He made all things by His power; by Him all things consist; and He upholds all things by the word of His power (John 1:3; Col 1:17; Heb 1:3). In Him are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and He has been made wisdom for each of the elect (Col 2:3; I Cor 1:30-31).
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Hi Nick and Gene,
The pre-existence of Jesus Christ is very important.
God gave us something that He already had and His love for us was shown in that act of giving.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If He gave us His Son, He then had to have a Son to give.
Not just a unique son, but His only begotten Son, the Son of His Bosom, the Son that came out of God.
This is the very heart of the Gospel.God bless
Hi Berean,
First off, Isaiah 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD— 3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; 4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist. 6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. 9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORDas the waters cover the sea. 10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.
I Chronicles 17 tells us God’s WORD that He WOULD BE a Father unto a son of David and that He WOULD settle this Son of Man into His house and His kingdom. You deny this clear passage Berean and your doctrine produces a lie against it, plain and simple.
You also deny Jesus’s words in John 3 and elsewhere as you refuse to apply the knowledge given from other passages with that of others. Jesus upon rising out of the water received the Holy Spirit and when Nicodemus declared Jesus to be a Rabbi “COME FROM GOD”, which in other words means he came down from heaven, Jesus said that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God and he also said, “12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” What did Jesus also say, “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
So what do we have from scripture, as promised God became a Father unto a son of David, as Jesus was born of water and of the Spirit at the river Jordan. When God promised unto a son of David that He would be a Father He also promised He would settle him into His House and His Kingdom, which Jesus says that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God and Jesus tells us that he is the Son of Man exalted to God’s right hand. Further Berean you refuse to acknowledge the image of the Son that Paul gives us in Romans 8, the image believers in Jesus are to be made into, so that he MIGHT BE a firstborn among many brethren (don’t forget Psalms 89, God WOULD MAKE him into His firstborn), that image is one who is led by the Spirit, that image is one where the Spirit bears witness to the human spirit that they are a child of God. What do you think Jesus was performing miracles through the Spirit for Berean?? It was for proof that he was the Son of God, proof that he was begotten of the Spirit, filled not only with powers but also grace and truth. The Spirit of God living in Jesus without measure bore witness that he was God’s Son. Moreover we are told that the fruits of the Spirit are in all goodness, righteousness and truth and that one who is born of God is righteous, one without sin.
Further Berean you seem to refuse to acknowledge that it was YHVH’s WORD from the beginning that a Son of Man would execute all of YHVH’s will and that will includes as son of David being a ruler overall the earth, hence why we are told that all things were created by reason of and for Jesus.
With the Holy Spirit upon him, Stephen saw the Son of Man in heaven at God’s right hand and we are given that it is the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory to fulfill God’s will, the End that God had declared from the beginning. You deny this?
John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Such was a glory indeed that was of God for this Son of Man before the world was.
Berean we are also given that YHVH created heaven and earth by Himself, ALONE and that He created earth for the purpose that it be inhabited by mankind where they would not seek Him in vain. We are given in Acts 17 that our Creator predetermined man’s boundaries and that he ordained a man to judge the world giving us assurance through raising him from the dead. When Jesus returns he is rewarding man with God’s Spirit, where it will live in them and cause them also to walk in all of God’s ways, where they will be joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
Read the END to which God declared from the beginning,
1 Corinthians 15: 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.
The MAN, Jesus Christ, is the firstfruits of the Spirit, which makes him a Son of God. He was raised from the dead receiving it by promise, God being ALL IN him and when Jesus returns in our Father’s glory, he is rewarding it to others where God will be all in all. This is the END God declared from the beginning that ONE MAN would execute and the very reason why we are told that all things were created by reason of and for Jesus Christ. This is exactly why we are told that without him nothing would have been made that was made and why we are told in him all things consist. This was the glory that was from God for this man before the world was.
DD
The pre-existence of Jesus Christ is very important.
God gave us something that He already had and His love for us was shown in that act of giving.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If He gave us His Son, He then had to have a Son to give.
Not just a unique son, but His only begotten Son, the Son of His Bosom, the Son that came out of God.
This is the very heart of the Gospel.Me
Exactly!
Well Saïd DD
😄
It seems right to those who do not know the Spirit and are confounded by the apparent mysteries in what is written. Submit the human mind to the wisdom of God is the path of understanding.
Applying your definition, the prophets would also have come in the flesh and are now in the glory they had with the Father before the world began because Jesus is like them, just a man (only) like them and not special like the Word of God. That said…
The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. NIV The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. NASB The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, `I came down from heaven’?” “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.”
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us.
“I am the way and the truth and the life.
As any truth seeker can plainly see. the Word of Life that is, the eternal life which was WITH the Father (just as the Word that was with God was WITH the Father also), is Jesus. Jesus himself said that he is the life. You don’t have to believe his words of course. But because he is that eternal life (the vine where that life is given), it explains why there is no other name by which men can be saved. For it is through him that eternal life is given, not the prophets who are mere men like us (with a special calling) He is the vine and we are the branches. The prophets are not the vine, they are branches like us. You need to believe and confess the truth about Jesus. He is a man and a prophet, but much more because he is the eternal life, the vine of which no prophet can ever come close.
Hi PC,
The Spirit in Christ Jesus was from heaven and told men.
Surely you heard his voice in that wonderful submitted vessel?
or did you really only hear a man speaking like the Pharisees did?
Hi PC,
The Spirit of eternal life was given to the first fruits, Jesus Christ,
and those in him also inherit this free blessing.
Surely you have been joined to him by baptism in his name?
Proclaimer…….ALL VINES COME FROM A BRANCH. That my friend is a fact. Jesus was taken from the branch of mankind and became a vine, planted by God the Father. and we are in that vine through baptism, and all the vine is supported by one Spirit, that gives life to both the vine and it’s branches, which is the Spirit of God.
peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer………gene
Hi Nick,
Hi C,
Conception in humans – Jesus began life and was conceived in Mary-
requires contribution of an egg from the woman and a sperm from the male source.
how do you see it again?
Me: Reading your carnal reasoning above, it is more related to a scientific study than
to God’s spiritual task of the Holy Ghost.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi C,
And behold you will conceive in your womb and bear a son , and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the son of the Most High: and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David; and he will reign in the house of Jacob forever, and his kingdom will have no end.
Lk 1.30
Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit..
Mt 1.20
Both Matthew and Luke record, Jesus’ daddy is the spirit; so how is Jesus of the tribe of Judah? Tribal lineage comes from the father. If not conceived of Joseph how is Jesus of the seed of David?
Now the real question. How is Jesus the Messiah when according to the OT the Messiah was to be Jewish AND from the line of David? Think Jesus missed a requirement if he was conceived of the spirit and would disqualify him as the Messiah.
Guess we need to go back a re-read some OT…
@Gene,
You said in post #944790, “I need to return to the sheep fold, where I belong”; what “fold” did I leave that I’m now not apart of? Do I not belong to God or do I only belong to God thru Jesus?
I came here to ask questions and present thoughts concerning those questions; hoping to bounce these thoughts off a wider pool of people verses the biased religious perspective given by the monologuing orator that stands at the front of a church every Sunday who usually doesn’t have time to address questions concerning doctrinal teachings and how it aligns with God’s word. The unfortunate part is the response received here is no different.
None have answered why God required a human “sacrifice” of Jesus, when HE (God) explicitly states human sacrifice is an abomination.
None have answered how the innocent are responsible for the guilt of another, when HE explicitly states the individual is responsible and is accountable for their sin.
None have explained why I “need” Jesus for “atonement” of sin, when HE said repent, turn from your wickedness, and your sin will be remembered no more.
None have explained what changed in the expectation of the OT Messiah verses the NT Messiah.
None have addressed the blatant verb tense changes of the original text; thus modifying/changing the meaning of the text in our “newer/modern” translations.
None have explained why the NT teaches the nonacceptance of Jesus will condemn one to “Hell” at the end of the age, when God said all nations will bow before HIM.
I’ve spent 40 years wasting time looking/studying the NT and glancing at the OT. Start reading the prophets of the OT as they ARE words directly from God and see if it doesn’t change your perspective. As you read the prophets words pay attention to how often God is speaking; then ask yourself, how many times did God speak in the NT.
In response to Post # 944770
Absolutely we read of God’s forgiveness to the Israelite’s; but don’t forget it wasn’t just to the Israelite’s, it extended to the other nations and people too. Wasn’t it God who said the HE delights when the wicked turn from their ways? And when the “wicked man” turns from wickedness and does what is just and righteous, he will live. I’ll ask again, where does Jesus fall in this? Are you to say the only way I am able to “turn from wickedness” is with the “help” of Jesus? How come man is able to turn from their wickedness in the OT but not in the NT without “help”? I thought I was created in the image of God and wouldn’t by that very nature have the “ability” to be “righteous”? Please note I didn’t say sinless.
You also mention “eternal life”; doing a quick search, a concept introduced in the NT; what does the OT say about “eternal life”? A topic of further study.
You quote a passage from Ezekiel “that God promised to give man a new heart and put His Spirit within, causing man to walk in all of God’s ways, where therein there would be no more sin and thus no more death.” First this sounds like a merging of concepts from the OT and NT, because as I read the Ezekiel 36:26 “man” isn’t mentioned but a “you” is. Who is this “you” being addressed? Glad you asked, to find out begin reading in verse 22 and go to the end of the chapter. Who is God addressing and who will receive this “new heart”?
Then you bring up the “law” and that Paul teaches the law serves to prove man’s weakness. This “law” Paul speaks of is the the Torah and what does Torah mean – “instruction” or “teaching.” Since the Torah is God’s set of instructions to teach man how we are to live before God and how we are to live with each other, explain how following God’s “laws” are a burden. Is it a burden for your children when you teach them to not hit out of anger or to take what doesn’t belong to them? Sounds like Paul is creating God in his image.
You also brought up “atonement and sin offerings with the sacrifice of a bull or goat”; BUT, was “blood” required for atonement? Hosea 14:2 says “we render the calves of our lips”; this sounds like prayer. In Lev 5:5-13 we read a lamb or goat must be brought, if that isn’t affordable bring two doves or pigeons, if that isn’t affordable bring flour. Is there blood in flour? Additionally, in Ps 51:16-17 David tells us God doesn’t want sacrifices, but a repentant spirit. However, Hebrews 9:22 tells us, “And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.” This contradicts what God said; and people wonder why I said the book of Hebrews needs to be stripped from the NT or why I question the veracity of the NT today.
Like I told Gene, start reading the prophets and see if that changes your perspective…
Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father. 1 John 2:23
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