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Mike: It is Jehovah who is saying all of these words. Is it your contention that Jehovah had his origins in the ancient past?
LU: The One who became a giver and a receiver of the eternal substance, was eternal in the past and then at the onset of the process of begetting, the origin of a relationship of father and son began.
The “One who became a giver and a receiver” must have been “Jehovah” even before the clone split, right? Because “Jehovah” is from everlasting to everlasting, right?
Isaiah 40:28
Have you not known? Have you not heard? Jehovah is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth.Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
LU: So, in a sense, the Father has a beginning (an origin) as well as the Son has a beginning (an origin).
But wait… according to the scriptures I just posted, the “Jehovah” who is eternal (no origins) is the “Jehovah” who created the whole world. So according to your theory, that couldn’t have been either the Father OR the Son – since you say they both have origins. Kathi, your scenario begins with one God who is eternal, and ends with two Gods – neither of whom are eternal. They’re made of “eternal stuff”, but they themselves aren’t eternal. And your scenario doesn’t allow for them to already be two different persons inside the original “cell” – because the split of the first cell would also split the persons in half. The original would retain half of each person, while the duplicate cell would be comprised of the other half of each of them.
Okay, so far we know from Isaiah 40 and Psalm 90 that the one identified as “Jehovah” is eternal. And we know from Micah that this eternal “Jehovah” is going to bring someone forth out of Bethlehem who is NOT eternal, but has ancient origins. Who is that one with origins in the ancient past who was eventually brought forth from Bethlehem to rule God’s people?
Mike: In verses 27 and 30, they identify Jesus – not as the one to whom they prayed or the one who created everything – but instead as the holy servant OF the one to whom they prayed… the holy servant OF the one who created everything.
How do you reconcile this with your doctrine? Same question for Kathi and Berean.
Carmel: Hi Mike,
me: VERY SIMPLE!
The Father and the Son ETERNALLY EXISTED TOGETHER.
Um… that doesn’t even answer my question. Let’s begin again…
In the prayer in Acts 4, the apostles pray to the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them. Carmel, WHO were they praying to?
Hi LU and ALL,
YOU: We start counting the days from the point of birth because we can never be sure when the point of conception was.
WE are children of Eve, PHYSICALLY SPEAKING.
Three hours ago I read that we in relation to the egg of the woman, are within our mother,
ON HER CONCEPTION in her MOTHER.
SO ON OUR BIRTH, WE HAVE TO ADD THE AGE OF THE MOTHER WHEN SHE WAS CONCEIVED.
IN MY CASE I HAVE TO ADD 20 YEARS, WHEN I WAS CONCEIVED IN HER WOMB.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
You: Um… that doesn’t even answer my question. Let’s begin again…
In the prayer in Acts 4, the apostles pray to the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.
ME: THROUGH THE SON “THE WORD” Jesus
ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, and ALL FOR HIM
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON/GOD
Carmel, WHO were they praying to?
IT IS IRRELEVANT WHOM WERE THEY PRAYING TO
it is the actual process OF CREATION which
COUNTS
Luke 10:22 ALL THINGS
are delivered to me( UNDER JESUS’ POWER) by my Father.
WHY MIKE THE FATHER GAVE ALL THINGS TO JESUS?
OBVIOUS:
AS HE DIED FOR ALL THINGS, FOR HIS OWN KINGDOM!not THE FATHER!
WHATEVER GOD THE FATHER CREATED, THROUGH HIS SON
GOT CORRUPTED,
THUS THANKS TO HIS SON:
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev. 13:8
HE RESTORED AND PERFECTED ALL BY HIS OWN DEATH,
A DEATH WHICH THE FATHER COULD NOT EVEN SMELL!
BY WHICH DEATH GOD THE FATHER RESTED, and
THE NEW FATHER OF ALL BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT BECAME
PROPRIETOR
SINCE THE OLD FATHER DELIVERED ALL THINGS TO HIS SON!
THE NEW FATHER of the new world to come Isaiah 9:6
now read
And no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father:
and who the Father is, but the Son and
to whom the Son will reveal him.
in his presence!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Mike,
You said:
But wait… according to the scriptures I just posted, the “Jehovah” who is eternal (no origins) is the “Jehovah” who created the whole world. So according to your theory, that couldn’t have been either the Father OR the Son – since you say they both have origins. Kathi, your scenario begins with one God who is eternal, and ends with two Gods – neither of whom are eternal. They’re made of “eternal stuff”, but they themselves aren’t eternal. And your scenario doesn’t allow for them to already be two different persons inside the original “cell” – because the split of the first cell would also split the persons in half. The original would retain half of each person, while the duplicate cell would be comprised of the other half of each of them.
Okay, so far we know from Isaiah 40 and Psalm 90 that the one identified as “Jehovah” is eternal. And we know from Micah that this eternal “Jehovah” is going to bring someone forth out of Bethlehem who is NOT eternal, but has ancient origins. Who is that one with origins in the ancient past who was eventually brought forth from Bethlehem to rule God’s people?
Mike, the relationship has origins, not their existence. Look at the picture of the closed mitosis to help. Also, all things were made by the firstborn, therefore the creation that is mentioned in your passages took place after the relationship was established and the Son was begotten since only then would there even be the Son as the Firstborn. Nice try though. Another thing, I am not presenting a division of substance resulting in a half of substance in one and a half of substance in another, nor would it be considered a cloning. Asexual reproduction leads to a father and son complete in substance according to type. See the diagram for that also.
Later, LU
Hi Carmel,
Maybe you’re joking but in case you are serious, the human mother has within her an eggs that someday will possibly become person/persons. Until it is fertilized, that egg is not a person because persons have 46 chromosomes but an egg only has 23. The egg requires the other 23 chromosomes to come from a sperm. Biology 101 🙂
Mike: Carmel, WHO were they praying to?
Carmel: IT IS IRRELEVANT WHOM WERE THEY PRAYING TO
What?!? It’s irrelevant who Jesus’ apostles prayed to? Please answer the question – no matter how “irrelevant” you believe it to be. Thanks.
LU: Mike, the relationship has origins, not their existence.
Okay, let’s go even slower then… There couldn’t be a “their” in the original cell unless there were already two individual sentient persons. So is that your claim?
Hi Mike,
ME: John14:13Because I go to the Father: and
whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do:….
In the above Mike Jesus said that
we PRAY to the Father IN HIS NAME and
HE
JESUS DOES ALL FOR US.
THUS IT’S NOT TO WHOM WE PRAY WHICH COUNTS BUT
THE ACTUAL PROCESS
THE PROCESS WHICH JESUS ESTABLISHED ON HIS DEATH
THE FRUIT INITIATED IN THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD……….AND THE WOR WAS GOD!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Mike,
You said:
Okay, let’s go even slower then… There couldn’t be a “their” in the original cell unless there were already two individual sentient persons. So is that your claim?
The original one had within itself the potential to become both a father and a son, their substance was within the original one before it went through the begetting process.
t8
You said: And given that other translations translate it simply as ‘lord’, then this is a fail.
You need to dig a little deeper. We know that many translations translate the name YHWH as LORD but that doesn’t mean He is not Jehovah does it.
Anyway, you post greek interlinear passages when I posted a translation that is not from a Greek manuscript which does nothing for the conversation. You ought to be looking at the Syriac Peshitta interlinear for the OT and the NT and compare the word translated as the Lord Jehovah in Philippians 2:10 with the word for the Lord Jehovah in the OT in the Syriac Peshitta. You will see the same word which only applies to the tetragrammaton.
Study this paper on the subject to help you understand: http://aramaicnt.com/files/MarYah%20in%20Peshitta.pdf
Hi, Mike,
YOU: Carmel: IT IS IRRELEVANT WHOM WERE THEY PRAYING TO
What?!? It’s irrelevant who Jesus’ apostles prayed to? Please answer the question – no matter how “irrelevant” you believe it to be. Thanks.
ME:Mike please be honest and produce
MY WHOLE SENTENCE, NOT ONLY WHAT PLEASES YOU! I SAID:
IT IS IRRELEVANT WHOM WERE THEY PRAYING TO
it is the actual process OF CREATION which
COUNTS
Now read:
Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God
. “Sovereign Lord,” they said,
Now the above was not sufficient for you in order to make your point THAT GOD IS THE CREATOR! AND CONTINUED AND SAID:
“you made
the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.
THUS YOU COMMITTED YOURSELF AND SIMPLY PRODUCED
THE WHOLE DECLARATION,BUT WITH YOUR CARNAL MINDED UNDERSTANDING YOU
IGNORED THE SPIRITUAL HIDDEN UNDERSTANDING
WHICH IS WHAT JESUS, GOD’S SERVANT CAME TO ESTABLISH ON THIS MORTAL CARNAL PLANET!
What according to you the above CREATION WHICH GOD CREATED IS
MADE OF?
IN ONE INSTANT, Mike they prayed to
THE LORD and also
mentioned
“THE WORD” Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, GOD’S SERVANT! hidden in the
ENTIRE PROCESS MENTIONED BY THE APOSTLES.
SO IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO MENTION
JUST
THE LORD MIKE!
THE LORD ON HIS OWN MEANS NOTHING!
GOD THE FATHER ON HIS OWN MIKE IS
ABSOLUTELY
USELESS
now read AGAIN:
And no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father:
and who the Father is, but the Son and
to whom the Son will reveal him.
in his presence!Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel: JESUS DOES ALL FOR US
THUS IT’S NOT TO WHOM WE PRAY WHICH COUNTS BUT THE ACTUAL PROCESS
Yes, our and Jesus’ God has certainly given his servant Jesus a ton of power and authority. But my question still awaits an answer…
Who did the apostles pray to in Acts 4?
LU: The original one had within itself the potential to become both a father and a son, their substance was within the original one before it went through the begetting process.
Okay, but I want to know if the original One consisted of two individual entities. You used the word “their”, which made me think you believe there were two sentient minds in the original One. Is that what you think? Or was the original One a single entity/mind?
Carmel: GOD THE FATHER ON HIS OWN MIKE IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS
No.
Carmel: Mike they prayed to THE LORD…
Which Lord? There are tons of them. Were they praying to Jesus? He’s a Lord. Beelzebub? He’s also a Lord. Jehovah? He’s a Lord too. Which one were they praying to in Acts 4? What’s his name?
Hi LU,
YOU:
Jodi,
You said: Lamsa added it in based upon his own theology…
I think you need to dig a little deeper than that.
Again, look at this and you will see that there is sufficient reason to translate the original word in the as “Lord Jehovah.” I know that it is a direct hit to your doctrine and hard to accept but you would do well to purchase the original text with the interlinear and see that the word translated as “Lord Jehovah” is found throughout the OT and the NT for the tetragrammaton, YHWH.
http://aramaicnt.com/files/MarYah%20in%20Peshitta.pdf
ME: I counter that with,
https://everlastinggoodnewsofyahweh.info/MarYah.html
Hi LU,
Rev 15: 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify THY NAME? for thou ONLY ART HOLY: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
Acts 17: 31 Because HE hath appointed a day, in the which HE will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom HE hath ordained; whereof HE hath given assurance unto all men, in that HE hath raised him from the dead.
Matthew 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Who is “he” that says there is none good but ONE?
Who is “he” that FEARS YHWH because His Spirit is upon him?
Who is “he” who judges the world in righteousness and how is it that he is able to judge?
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of YHWH shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of YHWH: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Jodi and Gene
COLOSSIANS 1: 16b-17 this is about Jesus Christ
… all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.LU…..YOUR AND OTHERS problem here is not understanding the Greek word “dia” in it’s a true Greek meaning, even though I have posted it here many times, It is ease to just go to Strongs explanation of the word and apply it to the text. YOU will see it should be translated as , “for the purpose of, as a channel or purpose which GOD CREATED ALL THINGS. Jesus never create anything himself. He even would not allow people to call him good, as scriptures clearly says, which Jodi has brought out above.
The problem with you people here is, that you really do not “truly” believe, what Jesus himself says as truth, But have chosen to believe in a false JESUS that “mystery religion” has created.
Remember what Jesus said, ““many will come in my name saying I am christ and DECIEVE “MANY”. THE Jesus you people are preaching is a false Jesus. 2ths2. Shows the Jesus you people are preaching. I realize you are not aware of it, and that’s the sad parts, but you are not alone, most all believe the way you and others here do. That’s the “wide way that leads to destruction”, but we are told to go through the “narrow” gate that leads to life.
I and Jodi, nor I believe Mike, sees Jesus the way you people see him. If we see Jesus as a God, then we are breaking the First commandment and have become Idolaters. by believing Jesus is a God. GOD the Father will never accept “Idolaters “. IMO when Jesus said “that they might know you the “ONLY” true God”. he was not lying LU.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
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