Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,675 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #832729
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Your arguments are against the Spirit, manifested in Jesus Christ, the apostles and the prophets.

    You have left out so much of the teaching about Satan, the kingdom of darkness and Hades.

    By not understanding life in the Spirit you show you also cannot understand death.

     

    Your bible should be a quick read.

    #832731
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You vilify all teaching from the bible that you cannot accept as NON TRUE or pagan superstition

    and then offer your sanitised version as truth.

    hmmm

    #832733
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Ed,

    How was Isaac the MONOGENES son of Abraham?

    Heb 11.17

    #832770
     Ed J 
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    Hi Ed,

    How was Isaac the MONOGENES son of Abraham?

    Heb 11.17

    Nick, really I’m surprised you don’t know this.

    The blessing want to Isaac instead of Ishmael and in like manor,
    Jesus brings us the blessing of God rather than Adam bringing it.

    Do you understand now?

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #832773
     Jodi 
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    Good Morning Nick,

    First let me say I find it interesting how recently you spoke against using the lexicon, you spoke against looking up the original word and the different meanings that it gives when it comes to the words for spirit and soul, now you are telling me I should look at different translations. You speak contradiction, so don’t use it when it doesn’t support your view, and do use it when you need it to? 

    Let’s take Micah 5:2 for instance, the original word is owlam which using the lexicon it gives a few different definitions everlasting, long duration, ancient time, long time..

    Some translations thus render it everlasting, while others ancient times.  Looking at the original word through the lexicon shows us how different translations can be given.

    Looking up the original word and the definitions given is the same as looking up different translations Nick, but I would assume that you know that. We can see that the definitions given to the original word using the lexicon does come with error, and one should be careful, as in the case of the Holy Spirit, it is defined in the lexicon as part of the trinity.

    The word AGAIN in the passage of Acts 13 is simply speaking of Jesus rising to life again, however this rising to life again we are told fulfills the second Psalm, “this day have I begotten thee.” So if Jesus was BORN of God becoming the Son upon being raised from the dead, does that mean that he was not his Son earlier, he was not BORN of God at the river? When he rose up from the water and received the Spirit and was sent out and people called Jesus the Son of God from that time, and Jesus proclaimed himself as being the Son of God from that time, and God says that He so loved the world He gave His “only begotten Son”, I would say indeed he was BORN of God at the river.

    Knowing that God gave His only begotten Son over to death, and upon his resurrection we are told that Psalms 2 was fulfilled that on the day of his resurrection he was BORN a Son, then he was indeed BORN of God’s Spirit first at the river and second upon his resurrection.

    But apparently you accuse me on this specific passage of declaring myself as an expert, so you feel that there is no point in you giving me your understanding. HOW absolutely convenient for you!! You will proceed with further posts addressed to me, so is that because on other passages you don’t think that I think I am an expert on those? lol! Or is it that you care not to actually think about Acts 13, you’d rather avoid it because it doesn’t fit with your understanding? Instead of explaining it you avoid it and once again make false accusations, saying I think I am an expert. Saying this to me, mind you, when I recently said that I don’t declare that I hold the undeniable truth, but merely post like everyone else, giving what I believe is the truth. Maybe you missed that post of mine. Maybe I should go back and see if you responded to it directly and if so that would reveal even further the sort of character you operate from.

    32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

     

     

     

    #832775
     Jodi 
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    Okay Nick so you say souls are not immortal. It would be helpful if you give more of your understanding in each of your posts. I believe you said in another post that souls die at the second death, so not at the first.

    Why not be more clear in each post? Say souls are not immortal they are destroyed at the second death.

    This is your problem, death is referred to as SLEEP, death is referred to as knowing nothing.

    Why don’t you DEFINE soul for us Nick?

    When OT uses the word soul, is it used exactly the same definition as soul in the NT?

    This is your problem,

    Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    word used here is hades

    Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    word used here is hades

    Explain WHY David is in hades and not in Abraham’s bosom??

    Explain why David refers to his death as sleeping and not as being tormented?

    Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

    So David died in hope knowing the promise being thankful to God for that coming promise, and God sent him to be tormented in hell, where he has no memory of God and cannot praise God??

    Nick, if you want to believe that the parable in Luke is giving us true facts about death, then you are going to have to tell me that David right now is actually awake receiving torments, and that other scriptures are completely false. 

     

    #832776
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick…whats to understand, when scripture says, clearly what happens when a person dies, i am not changing scripture to meet my opinions, just quoting It, and that seems to offend you.

    I am not denying the existence of a Satan, i do disagree with you on some of your views about him, which to me is more pagan in concept then scripture. I also ask you a simple question which you failed to answer , so ill ask you again,

    Do you believe that PETER was SATAN? Simple question but no answer why is that NICK?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #832777
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    Let’s review Jonah and some other scriptures,

    Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

    Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

    Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish Nick, that fish was going to bring him to sheol, it was going to be his death, he saw it as hell.

    Job 3:22 They draw near to the pit, and their life to the messengers of death.

    Jonah was drawing near to sheol, the belly of that fish he believed was going to be his place of death. He was not DEAD, the passage doesn’t say he was resurrected, it says that the fish spit him out. God rescued him from dying. As we are clearly told the dead don’t speak to God, they cannot praise God let alone pray to him. You have to be alive to do that. 

    17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish’s belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. 3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. 4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. 5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. 7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple. 8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy. 9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD. 10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

    #832778
     Jodi 
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    Let’s be clear Nick I do not vilify scriptures I vilify your interpretation and thus you vilify mine.

    I vilify ALL teaching? That is pretty bold of you to say and rather odd since there are some teachings we agree on.

    I do not believe that the parable Jesus gave was a true story, as I said, I believe that through the fictional story Jesus teaches a lesson. That is a common practice you know, fictional stores that bring a truthful lesson. What is that truthful lesson?

    Luke 16:10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. 11 So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? 12 And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own? 13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” 14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight….Luke 17:1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.” 

    In between these passages about loving money, doing wrong to people, and having repentance, we are given a parable, in the parable we see that a dead man doesn’t get to communicate with the living, the dead do not teach the living about needing to repent. A dead rich man’s spirit DOES NOT COMMUNICATE at all, certainly not with the living. If the living do not learn repentance through Moses they certainly will not learn it through the one who is raised from the dead, and there is not even a question about them getting to learn it from the dead. This would be because as David teaches the dead know nothing.

    Psalms 88:1 LORD, you are the God who saves me; day and night I cry out to you. 2 May my prayer come before you; turn your ear to my cry. 3 I am overwhelmed with troubles and my life draws near to death. 4 I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am like one without strength. 5 I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care. 6 You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths. 7 Your wrath lies heavily on me; you have overwhelmed me with all your waves. 8 You have taken from me my closest friends and have made me repulsive to them. I am confined and cannot escape; 9 my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, LORD, every day; I spread out my hands to you. 10 Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11 Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion? 13 But I cry to you for help, LORD; in the morning my prayer comes before you. 14 Why, LORD, do you reject me and hide your face from me?

    Just like Jonah felt trapped and on the verge of death so too at one point did David also. He felt he was counted as a dead person because the LORD was not hearing him. David is directly saying that the spirits of the dead do not rise up and praise God. They sleep the sleep of death, they know nothing.  David feels like he is close to death, and he feels like he might as well be dead because he apparently thinks God is not listening to him. But he knows he is in fact not dead and he is frustrated that God doesn’t seem to be listening. We know that God does listen, that God gives David the promise of eternal life. David dies knowing that he will wake from his sleep of death and be able to praise God once again.

    #832779
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    It Is the rich man who is in Hades and not David.

    #832780
     Jodi 
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    Nick the SOUL of David WENT to HELL, HADES, SHEOL. This is why you have a problem. Do you want to tell me that he is in torment and not like Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom? Or do you want to rethink and actual listen to the words of David and how he explains death?

    Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    I DEFINE HELL, HADES, SHEOL, as DAVID DOES, not as pagans, nor a so called “early church father”!

    #832781
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Jonah died and was rescued from Hades.

     

    David was yet on earth when he wrote Ps 88 fearfully imagining that the pit was his fate.

    His knew his soul was drawing near to Sheol and expected that his fate would be the lowest pit.

    He pleads for God to perform wonders for the dead and for departed spirits to rise and praise God.

    He felt full of doubts,  rejected and overcome by fears, and that God had hidden His face from him.

    But his fate was not to be Hades but rather the bosom of faith of Abraham with the anointed.

    How deceptive is the awareness of the natural mind. Faith is the lifeline and the anchor.

     

    #832782
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Looking at Acts 13 the quotation from Ps 2 is not to give a timing of the rebirth but to establish that Jesus is the Son of God.

    God does not have to satisfy man’s demands for logic to rule.

    #832784
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    David did not speak of himself but prophesied about Jesus Christ, and this is shown by Peter in Acts 2.

    Jesus too went to Hades to rescue the spirits from the time of Noah who heard no law.

    Hades could not hold the Son of God who has the keys of life and death

    #832786
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Will you listen to Jesus when he explains in Lk 16 that there are two waiting places for those under the law.

    One is of suffering and one of safety and peace.

     

    Both finish up in the lake of fire when they are emptied and have no further purpose.

    #832788
     Lightenup 
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    @anthony,

    you posted:

    Now we ask again: To whom is the arm [zeroah] of Yahuweh revealed?

    Who has believed the report seen in Isaiah 53? Who has believed this astonishing news or tidings presented?

    • To those who have believed the report, the Zeroah Of Yahuweh reveals Messiah in the Passover Seder;

    • To those who have believed the report, the Zeroah Of Yahuweh reveals Messiah as the One seen in the Isaiah 53 passages;

    • To those who have believed the report, the Zeroah Of Yahuweh reveals Messiah as the Passover Lamb;

    Nice find, Anthony. Now look into the Arm of the LORD as He is involved in the original creation and future judgement.

    • To those who have believed the report, the Zeroah Of Yahuweh reveals Messiah as the sacrificial Lamb, whose Blood has purchased the remission of our sins.

    #832789
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You say,

    ’Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish’

    Really?

    Is human life feasible in the airless depths of the sea in the belly of a fish?

    Do you not believe the man anointed in the Spirit of life when he says

    ’I cried for help from the depths of Sheol’

    ’You have brought up my life from the pit, O Lord, my God’

     

    If Jonah did not die then there is no Sign of Jonah, the resurrection did not happen and your faith is in vain.

    The Sign of Jonah proves that the anointing of God gives eternal life.

    #832791
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Let the dead bury the dead.

    You cannot yet recognise those anointed ones who are alive to God, like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Jonah…

    #832793
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The anointed ones of God always have His ear no matter their circumstances, even Sheol.

    ‘I will never leave you or forsake you.’

    #832794
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Three days without food or even oxygen.

    He says he went down to the roots of the mountains.

    Clearly you are assuming a miracle if he remained alive for 3 days.

    Why not believe God and the known miracle of the resurrection from the dead?

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