Firstborn of/over all creation

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  • #265287
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,01:57)
    Trinitarians, note caeefully, do not call the Holy Spirit, Theos, except by the creed. They do not use Theos in everday discussion, only as backing from the creed. They do not 'Worship' the Holy Spirit, indeed, they do not Worship Jesus Christ, but merely state in in the creed.


    Hi all.

    This is a lie and spoken by someone who has no clue what a Trinitarian does and who he worships. I have already proven to him I worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one God.

    I worship you and praise you God my Father for your Love and your goodness towards me for you are worthy to be praised and worshipped.

    I worship you Jesus my Great God and Savour for you are worthy of all praise and honour and Glory.

    I praise and worship you sweet Holy Spirit for all the things you have done in my life and for what you are doing in me everyday for you truly are God one with the Father and Jesus.

    WJ

    #265288
     JustAskin 
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    LU,
    There is no such thing as a 'Beggoten God'.

    There is no such thing as a created God.

    There is no such thing as any other 'God' than YHVH.

    If you refer the TITLE: 'God' to YHVH, then there is no other 'God'.

    YHVH himself stresses this over and over in the OT.

    Jesus is not 'a God' in this respect. In this respect, there is no other God.

    God, in this respect refers to the…the…the Supreme Mighty One, YHVH.

    A God, in this respect, cannot be created. One cannot create the Supreme Being, nor become the Supreme Being.

    Only when 'God' is being refered to as 'a mighty one', 'a supreme being', 'a hero', 'a best of the best', 'a …' can, then, one be created, become, attain to, raise up to be, 'a God'.

    The problem, LU, is that 'everyone' does not understand that 'God' is ONLY a TITLE….it is not a person…only the association OF a person to the Title gives 'God' it's meaning: 'The God', or 'a God'.

    Everyone is so hung up using 'God' as the NAME of the Father that they forget (did they even know in the first place) that it is ONLY a TITLE.

    Check this: Keep calling Elvis Presley 'The King'…'the King'…'the King'…so much that everywhere everyone goes you merely say, 'the King' and everyone understands that it means 'Elvis Presley'.

    What has happened is the the title of 'King' has become a byName for E.P.

    Now, E.P. has a son. Immediately, the son is called son of the King…snd is therefore a 'Prince'. Is this true? Is the Son a Prince?

    #265289
     Lightenup 
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    That right JA,
    There is no such thing as a created God. A begotten God, yes, a created God no.

    Again, John 1:18 o monogenes theos…only begotten God.

    #265290
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,01:57)
    In addition, 'Jesus' is also given 'Power and Riches'. Who from? If Jesus is God, then he already has 'Power and Riches'!


    Hi all

    Again he is not speaking the whole truth.

    And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, “BLESSING, AND HONOUR, AND GLORY, AND POWER, BE UNTO HIM THAT SITTETH UPON THE THRONE“, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:13

    And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and “fell before the throne on their faces, and WORSHIPPED GOD”, Saying, Amen: “BLESSING, and GLORY, and WISDOM, and thanksgiving, and honour, and POWER, and MIGHT, be **UNTO OUR GOD**” for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:11, 12

    Either the Father and Jesus is also recieving those things or this is unambiguous proof that Jesus is God. Of course if Jesus gets the same Glory and honour as the Father then he is God. :D

    BTW JA, thanks for pointing that out, for could it be that Rev 7:11, 12 is speaking of Jesus?

    WJ

    #265291
     Baker 
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    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2010,08:08)

    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 02 2010,15:47)
    Hello!  This is going to be a very short post.  If the Holy Spirit is a person, would He then not be His Father???? I have asked this before and got no answer.  Hope you WJ answer me this time….
    Peace Irene


    Irene

    I have answered you many times.

    So let me take another approach.

    If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”,  and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?

    WJ


    WJ Mike is right, I asked IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON, WOULD HE THEN NOT BE THE FATHER OF JESUS? That you did not address….What you are saying is not what I asked you. Why is that so confusion to you? I asked a plain Question and you try to make something else out of it. What you are saying is not what I asked you. Read it again….As far as the Holy Spirit being an it, it is the Spirit of our Heavenly Father Jehovah….got it…..Just like we have the Holy Spirit in us, Maria was conceived by His Holy Spirit and that makes Jehovah God His Father.
    Peace Irene

    #265292
     JustAskin 
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    WJ,

    You have amnesia or else you really like being thrashed. What do they call people like that, phlagerlists, 'i loved being flogged'erlists?

    Just ignore my posts and save yourself the embarassment.

    Being given Honor and Glory and Praise, does not graduate one to 'God Status'.

    Anyone, Spirit, Human, animal or automaton , can be given Honor, Praise and Glory.

    He that wins the race, the hero, the rescue dog, the superComputer that beat the human Chess champion, more… Are these then 'God' also? The One God, the Almighty?

    And WJ,
    You don't worship the Holy Spirit…saying a prayer to the Holy Spirit is not Worship.
    You, even you, WJ, should know that.

    Worship is the giving of sacred service to that one being worshipped.WJ, the Holy Spirit 'gives power and gifts' to those whom God desires it to do so to, it does not receive from mankind.

    Additionally, Jesus never said to pray 'to him'. He said to pray 'through him' to the Father…in his name, in the power and authority invested in him.

    WJ,
    You know these things. Why do you choose to say that JustAskin speaks falsely. Why do YOU make yourself into a Satan and Devil?

    Besides, you pursuade no one, so why even bother!!

    #265293
     JustAskin 
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    WJ, what is the name of your One God?

    The Father is called YHVH
    The Son is called 'Jesus'

    What is the name of the Holy Spirit
    And the One God that you say embraces them, what is his name 'that I, too may worship him', 'that I can tell the people'?

    #265294
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 03 2010,16:10)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2010,08:08)

    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 02 2010,15:47)
    Hello!  This is going to be a very short post.  If the Holy Spirit is a person, would He then not be His Father???? I have asked this before and got no answer.  Hope you WJ answer me this time….
    Peace Irene


    Irene

    I have answered you many times.

    So let me take another approach.

    If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”,  and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?

    WJ


    WJ  Mike is right, I asked IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON, WOULD HE THEN NOT BE THE FATHER OF JESUS?   That you did not address….What you are saying is not what I asked you.  Why is that so confusion to you?  I asked a plain Question and you try to make something else out of it.  What you are saying is not what I asked you.  Read it again….As far as the Holy Spirit being an it, it is the Spirit of our Heavenly Father Jehovah….got it…..Just like we have the Holy Spirit in us, Maria was conceived by His Holy Spirit and that makes Jehovah God His Father.  
    Peace Irene


    Irene

    I answered your question to Mike.

    Now its your turn to answer mine.

    If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”,  and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?

    WJ

    #265295
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,16:19)
    WJ,

    You have amnesia or else you really like being thrashed. What do they call people like that, phlagerlists, 'i loved being flogged'erlists?

    Just ignore my posts and save yourself the embarassment.

    Being given Honor and Glory and Praise, does not graduate one to  'God Status'.

    Anyone, Spirit, Human, animal or automaton , can be given Honor, Praise and Glory.

    He that wins the race, the hero, the rescue dog, the superComputer that beat the human Chess champion, more… Are these then 'God' also? The One God, the Almighty?

    And WJ,
    You don't worship the Holy Spirit…saying a prayer to the Holy Spirit is not Worship.
    You, even you, WJ, should know that.

    Worship is the giving of sacred service to that one being worshipped.WJ, the Holy Spirit 'gives power and gifts' to those whom God desires it to do so to, it does not receive from mankind.

    Additionally, Jesus never said to pray 'to him'. He said to pray 'through him' to the Father…in his name, in the power and authority invested in him.

    WJ,
    You know these things. Why do you choose to say that JustAskin speaks falsely. Why do YOU make yourself into a Satan and Devil?

    Besides, you pursuade no one, so why even bother!!


    JA

    You are just a joke. All you know how to do is critisize and patronize. Your explanation of what worship is, is only part truth. The Father and the Son and Holy Spirit is being worshipped with words from the heart as well as sacred service. You do obey and submit to the Holy Spirit don't you. Then again maybe you submit to an “it”.

    So why didn't you address the scriptures? HA HA it is because your half truth has been exposed for the Father also recieves the same as Jesus….

    And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, “BLESSING, AND HONOUR, AND GLORY, AND POWER, BE UNTO HIM THAT SITTETH UPON THE THRONE“, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:13

    And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and “fell before the throne on their faces, and WORSHIPPED GOD”, Saying, Amen: “BLESSING, and GLORY, and WISDOM, and thanksgiving, and honour, and POWER, and MIGHT, be **UNTO OUR GOD**” for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:11, 12

    WJ

    #265296
     JustAskin 
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    Irene,
    A little refinement.

    The Holy Spirit is an activator. The Holy Spirit activated the initiation of the birth process that the Sperm would have done. Also, because it is pure, there was no genetic defect from the Holy Spirit as opposed to the defect in the Sperm.

    God is the Father, yes, because the Son was created with a 'pure Spirit and body' in which there was no sin.

    A Son of God, any Son of God…is one who has a 'Pure Spirit' and 'No sin'…in the eyes of God…
    Note that Jesus NEVER called himself 'Son of God' directly. He alway called himself, 'Son of Man'. Why?

    #265297
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,16:24)
    WJ, what is the name of your One God?

    The Father is called YHVH
    The Son is called 'Jesus'

    What is the name of the Holy Spirit
    And the One God that you say embraces them, what is his name 'that I, too may worship him', 'that I can tell the people'?


    Ha Ha

    You think the Fathers name is 4 Hebrew consonants called the tetragramaton.

    You still haven't shown us where the Apostles called the Father by name have you?

    What is the Fathers name if you know it? What is (Keith's) name, ah yes “KTH”? :D

    WJ

    #265298
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,16:37)
    Note that Jesus NEVER called himself 'Son of God' directly. He alway called himself, 'Son of Man'. Why?


    JA you should read more rather than just critisize and condemn.

    Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because **I said**, I am the Son of God“? John 10:26

    WJ

    #265299
     JustAskin 
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    WJ, WJ…what is wrong with you. Do you not think i know that verse…Jesu was …responding… To the Jews who were accusing him . Jesus himself did not initate it but just responded.

    So where else does Jesus call himself the Son of God?
    WJ, you really outdo yourself. You have retrograded. Not surprising since the Trinity is no longer a credible theology.

    #265300
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,16:59)
    WJ, WJ…what is wrong with you. Do you not think i know that verse…Jesu was …responding… To the Jews who were accusing him . Jesus himself did not initate it but just responded.

    So where else does Jesus call himself the Son of God?
    WJ, you really outdo yourself. You have retrograded. Not surprising since the Trinity is no longer a credible theology.


    HA HA

    Did he say he was the Son of God or not? What do you think he was doing when he was going around claiming God was his own Father?

    You said…

    “Note that Jesus NEVER called himself 'Son of God' directly. He alway called himself, 'Son of Man'. Why?”

    You said NEVER with caps.

    Seems you have outdone yourself.

    BTW your claims about the Trinity not being a credible theological view is funny seeing that the early church Forefathers and the Majority of present day Christendom disagrees with you.

    WJ

    #265286
     JustAskin 
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    wJ, i sense the devil in you. You are an unholy snake who slithers and slides around in the dust and dirt. You have nothing of value either to say nor contribute, except to act as an opposer. Still, what would Sherlock Holmes do without Morarty?

    You seem to be picking only bits and pieces of each post to refute.
    Does this mean you agree with the rest you didn't respond to.

    Don't answer that. You already did?

    Each item you do not respond to will now be seen as an agreement or a 'I don't Know'.

    What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

    What is the name of your God, your One God who is three Gods but nit three Gods but one, but one is not a God but a man and another is neither Gid nor man but Spirit, Holy Spirit, THE Holy Spirit of the only one that IS God, as the very Scriptures says' for us there is one God, the Father…'

    Is it no wonder when i ask you to draw a picture of your 'godhead' you refuse…refuse, because that's what it would turn out to be, refuse.

    #265301
     Baker 
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    Math. 15:9 In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. The trinity is a doctrine that Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian first came up with in the third century. The first Christians did not teach it…. It is said that the trinity is Tertullians best achievement to Christianty….It was Constantine who issued an edit and made it a Law…..
    Irene

    #265302
     JustAskin 
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    WJ,
    You boasted to me that I was trying t make trinity fall when 2000 years noone has done that. Well, WJ, you know what…trinity fell in this very forum, in HeavenNet, under your stewardship.

    Every point of trinity has been credibly discredited many times over. So much so that you and KJ are even speaking Scriotural truth as a means to maintaing a voice in this forum. Well, if it works for you, and it is truth, then,'he that is not against you, is for you'

    #265303
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 03 2010,17:17)
    wJ, i sense the devil in you. You are an unholy snake who slithers and slides around in the dust and dirt. You have nothing of value either to say nor contribute, except to act as an opposer. Still, what would  Sherlock Holmes do without Morarty?


    Dittos back to you JA. It is you that constantly accuse and condemn the brethren and we know who the accuser of the brethren is.

    I point out your error and you go ballistic and start with all your accusations and personal attacks rather than refuting what I say.

    WJ

    #265304
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 03 2010,17:17)
    Math. 15:9 In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.  The trinity is a doctrine that Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian first came up with in the third century.  The first Christians did not teach it…. It is said that the trinity is Tertullians best achievement to Christianty….It was Constantine who issued an edit and made it a Law…..
    Irene


    Irene

    So you are not gonna answer the question?

    WJ

    #265305
     WorshippingJesus 
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    Bump

    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 03 2010,16:10)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2010,08:08)

    Quote (Baker @ Sep. 02 2010,15:47)
    Hello!  This is going to be a very short post.  If the Holy Spirit is a person, would He then not be His Father???? I have asked this before and got no answer.  Hope you WJ answer me this time….
    Peace Irene


    Irene

    I have answered you many times.

    So let me take another approach.

    If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”,  and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?

    WJ


    WJ  Mike is right, I asked IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON, WOULD HE THEN NOT BE THE FATHER OF JESUS?   That you did not address….What you are saying is not what I asked you.  Why is that so confusion to you?  I asked a plain Question and you try to make something else out of it.  What you are saying is not what I asked you.  Read it again….As far as the Holy Spirit being an it, it is the Spirit of our Heavenly Father Jehovah….got it…..Just like we have the Holy Spirit in us, Maria was conceived by His Holy Spirit and that makes Jehovah God His Father.  
    Peace Irene


    Irene

    I answered your question to Mike.

    Now its your turn to answer mine.

    If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”,  and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?

    WJ

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