Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,675 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #832795
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Why not believe God when He said, speaking of the second death,

    that those who live and believe in Jesus Christ will never die?

    Do you not believe in eternal life in the Spirit, given now?

     

    #832796
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Ecclesiastes only speaks from the earthly view.

    So if you want to know about life in the Spirit you will not find it there.

    Likewise there is no teaching there about Sheol, Hades, the Bosom of Abraham or the Mansions of Christ.

     

    Framing your knowledge by the OT only robs you of the Knowledge made possible in Christ Jesus.

    #832801
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    You said, “Looking at Acts 13 the quotation from Ps 2 is not to give a timing of the rebirth but to establish that Jesus is the Son of God.

    God does not have to satisfy man’s demands for logic to rule.”

    Romans 1:4 And declared TO BE the Son of God with power, ACCORDING TO the spirit of holiness, BY THE resurrection from the dead:

    33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Verse 33 is not switching from talking about his resurrection and then the day at the river and then back to the resurrection Nick.  The passage says, he was raised again, as it is also written, THIS DAY have I begotten thee. This goes with Paul’s words exactly, that Jesus by the Spirit of God was declared a Son upon his resurrection from the dead.

     

    #832802
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    One thing you don’t seem to realize is that if when you die you either go to a place of reward or a place of torment, then you have ALREADY been judged and are receiving a judgment. The second resurrection is to judge and then to punish with the second death. But according to you the sinners are already being judged and punished with torments.

    Matthew 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Our hope is in the resurrection not in going to Abraham’s bosom and then a resurrection, our hope is to go from death into life.

    The words of comfort are not that you are separated from your body and you don’t go into torments, nor that you go to Abraham’s bosom, the words of comfort exist in knowing that you may die but you will live again. 

    1 Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    We see the same message below,

    21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. 23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

    Those who are dead at Christ’s return receive eternal life FIRST, those that still liveth when he returns receive eternal life SECOND.

    Nick Jesus says though he were dead he shall live, on the DAY of the resurrection, and those that liveth upon the time of the resurrection and believe, they shall never see death but be changed from mortal to immortal.

     

    #832804
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    Deut 31:6 Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be affrighted at them: for Jehovah thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of good courage: for thou shalt go with this people into the land which Jehovah hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.

    Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. 5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

    Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

    Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

    Daniel 12:2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches — to abhorrence age-during

    John 11: 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Stephen is asleep, he is dead, he knows nothing, he will AWAKE at the resurrection. God does not forsake His people He has promised them eternal life, He has promised them an eternal kingdom a land that they will inherit for an eternity. God does NOT abandon His promises. Stephen lost his life dying for the truth, as Jesus said he will find his life again, on resurrection day!!

    #832807
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Would you attempt to judge the prescribed justice of God?

    By His choice the options are shown by Jesus in Lk 16.

    Experts like you dare to say His choice to be unfair?

     

    #832808
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Those asleep in Christ are yet alive in the anointing Spirit.

    The Spirit already abiding in them raises them.

    #832809
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    As Rom 1 indicates the declaration to all creation that Jesus is the Son of God is his resurrection.

    #832810
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    So your theories all hang on the word AGAIN which does not appear in many translations.

    Correct?

    #832811
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    THIS DAY can just put the timing within 1000years.

    Jesus was declared to a few people to be the son of God at the Jordan and at other times.

    But the proof of his sonship was his resurrection.

    #832812
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You are telling Jesus that his teachings about Hades in Lk 16 were deceptive lies?

    Surely you would not challenge the Spirit that spoke through him?

    #832813
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Your problem seems to be that your preconceptions cannot accommodate the teaching from the Spirit in Lk 16 .

    Something has to give.

     

    #832815
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick…the problem is your not getting it, all those who are dead are dead, they are raised back to life at the resurection. That is plainly written in your bible.

    You are now telling us that we can’t believe the old testement, that also is not true, what did Paul tell the Berean’s to do when they heard various teachings , did he not say that, they were more noble then those in Thessalonica because they searched the scriptures to see if what they were hearing was true, now what scriptures were they searching, seening they only had the old testement in that day?

    And again we are told that “all” scripture is given by the insperation of GOD. YOUR TEACHING OF A PERSON STILL LIVING WHEN THEY DIE IS A FALSE TEACHING, there is no activity in the grave, scripture plainly says that in several places. Your preaching people are Judged and then sent to various places to suffer, or rewards, destorys the judgement after the resurection process, that scriptures plainly shows.

    Jodi is teaching the truth, and you are rejecting it, you are forcing text to say what it is not “specifically” saying , is no better the what the trenitarians like LU and others do.

    I ask you was PETER SATAN, you never answered that, why, is that Nick, is it because that exposes you as not knowing as much as you would have us believe?

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #832818
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Was Peter Satan?

    You must have missed my reply.

    You must scripture as it is written first as you say.

    No . Jesus was addressing the satan that spoke through the man Peter.

    The vessels all must be cleansed to be useful in the large house of the Master.2 Tim 2

    #832819
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Lazarus died.

    Lazarus was asleep.

    Both these statements by the Teacher are true.

    Until you understand how those who are in Christ only sleep in death we make no progress.

    #832820
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Those who sleep in death already have the Spirit of eternal life abiding in them.

    The Spirit resurrects them just as the Master was raised.

    Then they go up to meet him in the air.

     

    #832821
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Jn 7.32

    Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying,

    ’If anyone is thirsty let him come to me and drink. he who believes in me,

    as the scripture said.

    “From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water”

    But this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive;

    for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

     

    So the Jesus tells us that the Spirit of Christ is the source of eternal life for men

    and since Pentecost has been available to those vessels who would seek to be clean

    through repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, if they would walk in him.

    The Spirit abides from now to eternity.

    #832822
     GeneBalthrop 
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    NICK….WHEN Jesus said to the Pharisies they were childern of the devil, was he lying? Was something causing them to saying what they were saying, as you supose in the case of Peter, you seem unable to reconize PETER WAS INDEED A SATAN, (advasary) of Jesus when (He) said what he said. Just as the Pharisies were actually childern of the devil OR EVIL themselves saying and doing what they actually were.

    You trying to make it as if Jesus was talking to someone else, only supports you false conclusions that people themselves are not satans or devil’s by there “OWN” works, that they THEMSELVES ARE DOING.

    Nick, no, people themselves can devils and satans, whether you believe that or not it doesn’t change the truth. Did not Jesus say to his apostles “you being evil”?

    You shift the blame for what people do off of them, and place it on something else (another person or
    Satan being) which you believe is the cause of their evil doings, when it’s there own lusts doing it, IF their doings was not of them, and if that were the case, then how could God ever judge us for what we are doing, when it’s not us doing it. IS GOD THAT UNJUST TO YOU?

    People themselves “eat” (take to themselve) the evil they do.

    Jodi has explained it in great detail and you still can’t seem to get it. You should be prasing what she is posting, but you are as an advasary, (ha-satan), to her. How is it you can’t see the spirit of truth comming out through her?

    Just as i have shown you over and over the years, about the man of sin, in 2Ths 2, which you seem to fail to understand. I told Jodi that once and she comprehended it right away.

    I have also told you about what a Spirit is, and so has Jodi, and you fail to grasp that to, AND about the seven spirits of God, which you deny even though it is said three times in the “new testement”, you simply changed it to meet your preconcieved ideas about it being seven angels, even though that is not what was written there.

    So you change scriptures to suit you own dogmas, and call it “truth”, bad form Nick.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #832823
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Yes we know you have your strong opinions about many of these things and even tell us spirits are intellects.

    But you should return to the revealed truth as your basis of understanding.

    Get behind me satan is not addressed to a man.

    #832824
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    The whole world is under the power of the evil one.

    Thise who do not accept a God as their Father have another father.

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