1 Timothy 6:13-16

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  • #23048
    The One
    Participant

    Fellow members,
    I have read many posts on this site before joining,and I
    would like to thank the originator of this site(T8 I believe)for doing a fine job.

    I believed in the triune God doctrine all of my life.I followed the example set down by many preachers,teachers…,all of whom I considered godly men,never doubting their sincerity or
    conviction toward trying their best to reveal the truth of God's
    word(I still believe this was their intention),but as we all know,
    pure intent is not what gets us to heaven!Only studying and doing God's will(along with His matchless grace)is the only
    avenue to true salvation!

    I have been a studier of the scriptures since my youth,but
    I always looked at the text with preconcieved,indoctrinated
    views that I know now had hindered my understanding of the
    truth concerning God's identity.AND KNOWING”WHO GOD IS”,IS
    ABSOLUTELY VITAL FOR SALVATION!!(“Thou shalt have NO other gods before me”,seems pretty cut and dried does it not?!)

    But,I read a passage that made me question what I had
    had been taught and accepted since my youth.And that passage is 1Tim.6:13-16.But let me give some background on my belief system before I really READ this passage.

    I believed that God was three beings in one essence(diety)co-equal,co-eternal,each accepting his specific role but all being eternally omniscient,omnipresent,and omnipotent.But
    that belief has since been proved false.Let's read the passage(if you haven't all ready)I'm using the NAS version(which is a Trinity proposing version according to the concordance in the back of the one I'm using)

    Here Paul is charging Timothy..”in the presence of God,who gives life in all things,and of Christ Jesus,who made the godd confession before Pontius Pilate 14)that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ”,15){start watching}”which”He”will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed,the only Sovereign,the King of kings,and Lord of lords,{watch close here}”who ALONE possesses imortality and dwells in unapproachable light,WHOM NO MAN HAS SEEN OR CAN SEE.To Him be honor and eternal dominion!Amen!”

    What does that say?!

    OK Let's disect these verses.First,in vs. 13,a differing view
    of Jesus and God is made.It says,”God who gives life in all things”,and Jesus who made the good confession…”,thereby saying God is this one and Jesus is that one.If they're both”God”,then why not say”of God who gives life in all things and made the good confession…”?But let's continue.

    In vs 15 the scriptures say..”which He will bring about at the proper time”.,that being the returning of Christ(vs.14).The”He”
    mentioned here HAS TO BE the Father!Why?! Read Matt.24:36,Mark 13:32;these two passages state,out of our Lord's own mouth,that only the Father knows when Jesus' return will be(kinda' makes you wonder about that co-equal omniscience doesn't it?)so the following titles”King of kings,Lord of lords in vs. 15 are descriptive of that”He” mentioned earlier,and proof of that is followed in vs. 16 which starts with a comma{which means the thought is continuing}
    and says”..who ALONE(no one else!!!)POSSESSES IMMORTALITY(only”this”He is immortal),and dwells in unapproachable light,{here is the undeniable truth that this is the Father only who possesses immortality}WHOM NO MAN HAS SEEN,OR CAN SEE.

    “No man has seen God at any time”from our Lord's own mouth he says that no one has seen God except Jesus,and that means that the “He” here in 1Tim.6 is the ONLY one who is immortal,thereby nullifying the doctrine of co-eternal beings
    other than the Father.

    I then studied other passages such as Col.1:19 where it says,”it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”{the attributes of deity attached to Jesus in vs.15-18}but that says the diety was GIVEN to Jesus,
    NOT that He all ready possessed it!That also explains a passage like John 14:10 where our Lord said to Phillip”Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?”(just as with any father and son,right?!)”The words I say to you I do not speak on my own initiative,but THE FATHER”ABIDING IN ME”DOES”HIS”WORKS.”Again from Jesus”mouth he tells us that the power he has IS NOT His own,but is from the Father!

    Other questions then arose as to why,in John 20:17 when Jesus is telling Mary what to say to His disciplesdoes He says..”go to my brethren and tell them,I ascend to my Father and their Father,MY GOD and your God.”How can diety have a God?!

    Jesus says again in His high priestly prayer(doesn't the high priest SERVE a god…isn't that what Jesus is to us?!{Heb.7,
    1Tim.2:5…})in John 17:3 that..”This is eternal life,that they{the disciples}may know YOU{praying to the Father,vs.1},THE ONLY TRUE GOD,and(somebody other than than God,but still very important)Jesus Christ whom You have
    sent.”How can the high priest be equal to the god he serves?
    The simple truth is,HE CAN'T.

    Isn't Jesus' God my God too?!Isn't it my responsibilty to
    obey the same God,and recognize the same God as my saviour
    did?!ABSOLUTELY!!And if I do otherwise,will I have hope of salvation?Absolutely NOT.

    Jesus,in Matt.,says that Satan is the”father of lies”and this much is true.The BEST way for Satan to get you,is to make you believe what you practice or believe is righteous when in fact it is not.Thereby dying with a clear conscience and sin on your soul!Imagine,the majority of Christians believe in a compound/plural diety thus corrupting the First commandment
    and disregarding who Jesus called God.The Jews and Muslims recognize the true God but fail to recognize His Son AS His Son,and all of the other religions who have different gods all together.When Jesus said”few”would find the true way,he wasn't lying!

    I look forward to your responses,and may the Father bless you all!

    #23049
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Thanks for posting The One.

    I will read your post hopefully tomorrow. It is getting late here now.

    Take care my friend.

    :)

    #23061
    Sultan
    Participant

    Quote (The One @ July 28 2006,20:38)
    Fellow members,
    I have read many posts on this site before joining,and I
    would like to thank the originator of this site(T8 I believe)for doing a fine job.

    I believed in the triune God doctrine all of my life.I followed the example set down by many preachers,teachers…,all of whom I considered godly men,never doubting their sincerity or
    conviction toward trying their best to reveal the truth of God's
    word(I still believe this was their intention),but as we all know,
    pure intent is not what gets us to heaven!Only studying and doing God's will(along with His matchless grace)is the only
    avenue to true salvation!

    I have been a studier of the scriptures since my youth,but
    I always looked at the text with preconcieved,indoctrinated
    views that I know now had hindered my understanding of the
    truth concerning God's identity.AND KNOWING”WHO GOD IS”,IS
    ABSOLUTELY VITAL FOR SALVATION!!(“Thou shalt have NO other gods before me”,seems pretty cut and dried does it not?!)

    But,I read a passage that made me question what I had
    had been taught and accepted since my youth.And that passage is 1Tim.6:13-16.But let me give some background on my belief system before I really READ this passage.

    I believed that God was three beings in one essence(diety)co-equal,co-eternal,each accepting his specific role but all being eternally omniscient,omnipresent,and omnipotent.But
    that belief has since been proved false.Let's read the passage(if you haven't all ready)I'm using the NAS version(which is a Trinity proposing version according to the concordance in the back of the one I'm using)

    Here Paul is charging Timothy..”in the presence of God,who gives life in all things,and of Christ Jesus,who made the godd confession before Pontius Pilate 14)that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ”,15){start watching}”which”He”will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed,the only Sovereign,the King of kings,and Lord of lords,{watch close here}”who ALONE possesses imortality and dwells in unapproachable light,WHOM NO MAN HAS SEEN OR CAN SEE.To Him be honor and eternal dominion!Amen!”

    What does that say?!

    OK Let's disect these verses.First,in vs. 13,a differing view
    of Jesus and God is made.It says,”God who gives life in all things”,and Jesus who made the good confession…”,thereby saying God is this one and Jesus is that one.If they're both”God”,then why not say”of God who gives life in all things and made the good confession…”?But let's continue.

    In vs 15 the scriptures say..”which He will bring about at the proper time”.,that being the returning of Christ(vs.14).The”He”
    mentioned here HAS TO BE the Father!Why?! Read Matt.24:36,Mark 13:32;these two passages state,out of our Lord's own mouth,that only the Father knows when Jesus' return will be(kinda' makes you wonder about that co-equal omniscience doesn't it?)so the following titles”King of kings,Lord of lords in vs. 15 are descriptive of that”He” mentioned earlier,and proof of that is followed in vs. 16 which starts with a comma{which means the thought is continuing}
    and says”..who ALONE(no one else!!!)POSSESSES IMMORTALITY(only”this”He is immortal),and dwells in unapproachable light,{here is the undeniable truth that this is the Father only who possesses immortality}WHOM NO MAN HAS SEEN,OR CAN SEE.

    “No man has seen God at any time”from our Lord's own mouth he says that no one has seen God except Jesus,and that means that the “He” here in 1Tim.6 is the ONLY one who is immortal,thereby nullifying the doctrine of co-eternal beings
    other than the Father.

    I then studied other passages such as Col.1:19 where it says,”it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”{the attributes of deity attached to Jesus in vs.15-18}but that says the diety was GIVEN to Jesus,
    NOT that He all ready possessed it!That also explains a passage like John 14:10 where our Lord said to Phillip”Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?”(just as with any father and son,right?!)”The words I say to you I do not speak on my own initiative,but THE FATHER”ABIDING IN ME”DOES”HIS”WORKS.”Again from Jesus”mouth he tells us that the power he has IS NOT His own,but is from the Father!

    Other questions then arose as to why,in John 20:17 when Jesus is telling Mary what to say to His disciplesdoes He says..”go to my brethren and tell them,I ascend to my Father and their Father,MY GOD and your God.”How can diety have a God?!

    Jesus says again in His high priestly prayer(doesn't the high priest SERVE a god…isn't that what Jesus is to us?!{Heb.7,
    1Tim.2:5…})in John 17:3 that..”This is eternal life,that they{the disciples}may know YOU{praying to the Father,vs.1},THE ONLY TRUE GOD,and(somebody other than than God,but still very important)Jesus Christ whom You have
    sent.”How can the high priest be equal to the god he serves?
    The simple truth is,HE CAN'T.

    Isn't Jesus' God my God too?!Isn't it my responsibilty to
    obey the same God,and recognize the same God as my saviour
    did?!ABSOLUTELY!!And if I do otherwise,will I have hope of salvation?Absolutely NOT.

    Jesus,in Matt.,says that Satan is the”father of lies”and this much is true.The BEST way for Satan to get you,is to make you believe what you practice or believe is righteous when in fact it is not.Thereby dying with a clear conscience and sin on your soul!Imagine,the majority of Christians believe in a compound/plural diety thus corrupting the First commandment
    and disregarding who Jesus called God.The Jews and Muslims recognize the true God but fail to recognize His Son AS His Son,and all of the other religions who have different gods all together.When Jesus said”few”would find the true way,he wasn't lying!

    I look forward to your responses,and may the Father bless you all!


    Excellent post. I only have one question. Based on the text God is the only one who possesses immortality, but He does give it to those who obey him. Jesus is now immortal, and we will also be immortal one day:

    53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. (1 Cor 15:53-54)

    Am I on track here, and is that the point of your post, that only the Father has immortality alone, therefore demonstrating that the Father is not the Son, and disproving once more the Trinity?

    #23063
    kenrch
    Participant

    Let me say I know where you are coming from and I believe that only the Father GIVES immortal life. Jesus HAS immortal life but only the Father gives it.

    However Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords.
    1Ti 6:13 I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession;
    God the Father gives all life. AND of Christ Jesus

    1Ti 6:14 that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Our Lord Jesus Christ

    1Ti 6:15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    which in its own times he (Jesus, Jesus is King of kings and Lord of Lords)

    1Ti 6:16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

    The scripture continues “who (Jesus) hath immortality…whom no man hath seen, nor can see. In the relm of humanity only Jesus hath immortality. No man hath seen immortality.

    This is taken in the light of scripture:

    1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, [including Jesus] who is above all, and through all, “and in you all”.

    1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    While I believe you ARE CORRECT I don't believe these scriptures are saying “what WE would want to hear”

    I think everyone has been there you read a scripture in the light of what you know is true and some how the scripture seems to agree to the already truth.

    Bless you and welcome,

    kenrch

    God bless

    #23179
    The One
    Participant

    To: Sultan and Kenrch,
              I would like to thank both of you for making me feel welcome,and I appreciate your responses.

       First,to Sultan,yes I believe the scriptures say that only the Father has/possesses immortality and He can bestow it on whomever He wills.Truly there is no need to disprove the Triune God creed,because in truth it cannot prove itself.

      You brought up 1 Cor.15,a tremendous passage that those who believe in a triune God find hard to stomach,especially in vs.27-28 where Christ's total authority does not include God/the Father,and that Jesus' authority will end when God brings Him back,and at that time,Jesus Himself will be in SUBJECTION to God…..WHERE WILL THE EQUALITY BE IN HEAVEN BE BETWEEN GOD AND CHRIST?!How can a co-equal diety be in subjection,in heaven,to another diety?!The truth speaks for itself.

       To Kenrch,
                 I believe that 1Tim.6:16 is talking about the Father.
    Remember that all names in heaven and on earth are from God,
    that includes the Son(Phil.2:9).Also.three times in John is it said no one has seen God except Jesus(the only begotten
    {born,fathered}God)John1:18,John6:46,John5:37.

     Jesus was/is the “Son” of God,not God Himself!In the OT,God
    Almighty refers to Himself as Lord(Isaiah is replete with this reference by God of Himself as Lord),and King(Ps.10:16,Ps.29:10,Is.43:15{the latter containing both titles}
    and there are others…)so,does not the Son,when given the authority by the Father,also carry these same titles?!

      Jesus has all authority at the moment as King of kings and Lord of lords,but He is not King over God(the Father)is He?!OF
    COURSE NOT!This is evidenced in 1Cor.15:27-28 where Paul clearly tells us that God is excepted from Christ's authority(duh).So,who is the true King of kings and Lord of lords,Jesus
    or His God(John 20:17)?The answer is both,because the Son carries His Father's title.But the Father does not cease to be the King over all,INCLUDING His Son…He just allows His Son to run His kingdom with His blessing.

      The passage in 1Tim.6 says that this”King of kings…”,no man has seen,or can see,which backs up what is said in
    John.And remember how Paul references the Father in 1Tim.1:17 as..:the”King”immortal,invisible,the only God,be honor and glory…”,this is the second reference to God as”King”in  this letter and both deal with immortality being
    associated to this King.

      The other instance of this name is in Rev.17&19.In Rev.17
    the title/name is reversed from Rev.19,and 1Tim.,to where Lord precedes King  in the title/name.The other two(Rev.19 is
    what is written on Jesus robe and thigh)are opposite of 17.Is there a reason for that?

        My only point is that we cannot assume that the title
    applies only to one,when it can,should,and do IMO,apply to both.God is King of all(even Jesus)!

      Thank you for your response and I hope to hear from you again.May the Father bless you greatly(you too Sultan).

    #23181
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Thanks the One and welcome,
    Great post and some interesting gleanings.

    #23183
    kenrch
    Participant

    Hey “O”,

    I see what you and the scripture are saying.

    (BBE) Which at the right time he will make clear, who is the eternal and only Ruler, King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

    Yes I see now that Jesus will show who is King of kings.

    At the right time:
    1Co 15:27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
    1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

    Thanks! Bro.

    May God keep blessing you!

    #23190
    Cubes
    Participant

    Quote (The One @ Aug. 01 2006,05:40)
    First,to Sultan,yes I believe the scriptures say that only the Father has/possesses immortality and He can bestow it on whomever He wills.Truly there is no need to disprove the Triune God creed,because in truth it cannot prove itself.


    Hallelujah!

    Hi TO:

    A warm welcome to you. I really enjoyed reading your post and how you were led out by the Lord God this far!

    #23206
    Scripture Seeker
    Participant

    Welcome the one,

    you say..

    Jesus,in Matt.,says that Satan is the”father of lies”and this much is true.The BEST way for Satan to get you,is to make you believe what you practice or believe is righteous when in fact it is not.Thereby dying with a clear conscience and sin on your soul!Imagine,the majority of Christians believe in a compound/plural diety thus corrupting the First commandment
    and disregarding who Jesus called God.The Jews and Muslims recognize the true God but fail to recognize His Son AS His Son,and all of the other religions who have different gods all together.When Jesus said”few”would find the true way,he wasn't lying!

    But when we deny the Son we deny the Father, because they have the exact same nature.

    Joh 5:22  For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
    Joh 5:23  THAT ALL MEN SHOULD HONOUR THE SON, EVEN AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER. HE THAT HONOURETH NOT THE SON HONOURETH NOT THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT HIM.

    G5091 τιμάω timaō tim-ah'-o
    From G5093; to prize, that is, FIX A VALUATION UPON; BY IMPLICATION TO REVERE: – HONOUR, VALUE.

    Should we just treat Jesus as our neighbor? Or should we place equal value on him as the Father, Joh 5:23 . Is it really a good idea to treat Jesus like our next door neighbor?  

    I don’t understand why anyone would want to deny the Lord that bought them? He is the Creator and Saviour!

    Remember when we see Jesus in the flesh we see the Father. Remember both Thomas and Phillip where true disciples they understood that Jesus was the messiah but it took them a while to fully grasp that Jesus the Son was the exact image of His Father!

    I pray Jesus will reveal himself to you as he did for Thomas and Phillip.

    With Love doesn’t this teach we shouldn’t deny our Lord?

    2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
    2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH SHALL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF.

    Also you appear to be saying not many will be saved? Is this correct.

    I always thought the 144000 was the twelve tribes of Isreal, surely it’s not everyone… Does the free gift not come upon all men, is it not us that’s rejects him!

    Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of ONE THE FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN unto justification of life.

    1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God OUR SAVIOUR;
    1Ti 2:4  WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Yes nearly everyone is called. Nearly everyone has the freewill to accept the truth!

    Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

    The few that are chosen are a few more than the 144000.

    Joh 14:2  In my Father's house ARE MANY MANSIONS: IF IT WERE NOT SO, I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU. I go to prepare a place for you.

    If one thousand X one thousand = one million   What does the following equal including the thousands of thousands part!

    Rev 5:11  And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: AND THE NUMBER OF THEM WAS TEN THOUSAND TIMES TEN THOUSAND, AND THOUSANDS OF THOUSANDS;
    Rev 5:12  SAYING WITH A LOUD VOICE, WORTHY IS THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN TO RECEIVE POWER, AND RICHES, AND WISDOM, AND STRENGTH, AND HONOUR, AND GLORY, AND BLESSING.

    What was seen after the 12 tribes of Isreal?
    After this I beheld…..

    Rev 7:9  AFTER THIS I BEHELD, and, lo, a great multitude, WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER, OF ALL NATIONS, AND KINDREDS, AND PEOPLE, AND TONGUES, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    Which no man could number….

    Why should we even try if it’s impossible to count?

    Blessings..

    #23208
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    So do you mean they both have divine nature in the beginning?
    I agree
    Do they therefore share that nature as a CONJOINT BEING?
    No.
    They are
    Father
    and
    Son.

    #23209
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    Your words
    “Remember when we see Jesus in the flesh we see the Father. Remember both Thomas and Phillip where true disciples they understood that Jesus was the messiah but it took them a while to fully grasp that Jesus the Son was the exact image of His Father!”
    True.
    2Cor 5.19
    “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”
    so that is not hard to grasp.

    But the non sequitor?
    You need to make up your mind
    if Jesus is
    An image of God
    Or God Himself

    #23210
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    You quote scripture

    “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:”

    that shows the beautiful GIVEN roles of the Son of God
    and yet still confuse him with God Himself,
    Who GAVE them to him?

    #23213
    Scripture Seeker
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2006,05:30)
    Hi SS,
    Your words
    “Remember when we see Jesus in the flesh we see the Father. Remember both Thomas and Phillip where true disciples they understood that Jesus was the messiah but it took them a while to fully grasp that Jesus the Son was the exact image of His Father!”
    True.
    2Cor 5.19
    “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”
    so that is not hard to grasp.

    But the non sequitor?
    You need to make up your mind
    if Jesus is
    An image of God
    Or God Himself


    Hi Nick,

    Here is my answer!

    Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.

    Seperate persons ONE ETERNAL NATURE.

    Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The Father Son and Holy Spirit have one Nature.

    Here's the revelation for Thomas, it took him a while…
    He already understood that Jesus was the Messiah but he did not understand the Nature he shared with his Father!

    The Nature.

    Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto HIM, My Lord and MY GOD.

    Of the person..

    Joh 20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF GOD; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Different persons same eternal nature. GOD IS ALONE! there is no one else beside him and there will be no one else after him.

    Blessings.

    #23214
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    As you quote salvation is in the Son of God
    but you cannot separate the Son
    as a son
    from the Father.

    So how can you come to the mediator son for your salvation if you cannot know him?

    #23220
    Scripture Seeker
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2006,06:10)
    Hi SS,
    As you quote salvation is in the Son of God
    but you cannot separate the Son
    as a son
    from the Father.

    So how can you come to the mediator son for your salvation if you cannot know him?


    Hi Nick,
    I know Jesus as the mediator, the Son of Man and the only true Son of God..

    Both Thomas and Phillip knew him as the mediator the Son of Man.
    It took them quite a while to grasp that he is the exact substance of the Father.
    Have you forgotten all those scriptures that God says theres is no one beside me see that I am alone….

    Is Jesus your Saviour? God alone is the Saviour!
    What one is it?

    Also I am still interested in what you believe Jesus unchanging nature to be. Not who he is, but WHAT is he…

    We know the Father is Father and we know his nature is God.
    But what is the nature of the Son?

    Also I am still intersted in if you believe the Father has always been an Eternal Father.

    Blessings

    #23221
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    You say Jesus is God and yet you also say he is the Son of that God.
    Come on. Make up your mind

    #23222
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    Have you not yet grasped the concept that

    God owns all things and to Him belongs the glory
    AND
    He delegates all things.

    Unless you grasp these simple things how can you ever grasp the deeper ones??

    #23223
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS<
    If you mean that God has a son from the beginning and forever I agree.
    If it means to you He never ever really became a father …No

    He is firstly the
    Father
    of His
    Son.

    #23224
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SS,
    So now you reverse and say God is ever alone??

    There is indeed no God comparable to our God and Father

    #23225
    Scripture Seeker
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    Please just answer my questions.

    How can you have an Eternal Father of nothing…??

    Surely a perfect Father “Fathers” a perfect Son..

    True light from True light…..

    When God says he is alone he is, and then when he reveals that he is more than one person. He is Love…
    If you can understand Love you can undersatnd the nature of God.

    Blessings

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