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Hi SS,
So you do agree that TRULY, TRULYJESUS IS THE SON OF GOD
and not
GOD HIMSELF?
GREATThus ends the confusion.
If you somehow mean he is …but he isn't… then you are welcome to your forked tongue folly.
Hi Nick,
The Son is “Son” by person..
He is God by nature…The Father is Father by person and God by nature.
Nick, you are a human and you surely you have a Father…
Just because you are a Son of Man doesn't mean you can't be a man…
This is simple stuff….
You can't even answer my questions…
If you can answer them I may be able to see where you are comming from.Think about how a Son can be the same nature of his Father.
A Human is a Human it doesn't matter if he is a Son or a Father.True light from True light, begotten NOT made.
Blessings
Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Aug. 01 2006,07:53) Hi Nick, The Son is “Son” by person..
He is God by nature…The Father is Father by person and God by nature.
Nick, you are a human and you surely you have a Father…
Just because you are a Son of Man doesn't mean you can't be a man…
This is simple stuff….
You can't even answer my questions…
If you can answer them I may be able to see where you are comming from.Think about how a Son can be the same nature of his Father.
A Human is a Human it doesn't matter if he is a Son or a Father.True light from True light, begotten NOT made.
Blessings
Hi SS,
What do you know about divine nature
that you can assume that the Son
must be conjoined still with the one
you can somehow still claim is His Father?Scripture says Jesus is the Son of God.
PURE AND SIMPLE TRUTH
You confuse his begotten nature
with the One
from whom he was begotten.Your argument is with scripture and the Spirit who wrote it through men.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2006,07:59) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Aug. 01 2006,07:53) Hi Nick, The Son is “Son” by person..
He is God by nature…The Father is Father by person and God by nature.
Nick, you are a human and you surely you have a Father…
Just because you are a Son of Man doesn't mean you can't be a man…
This is simple stuff….
You can't even answer my questions…
If you can answer them I may be able to see where you are comming from.Think about how a Son can be the same nature of his Father.
A Human is a Human it doesn't matter if he is a Son or a Father.True light from True light, begotten NOT made.
Blessings
Hi SS<
What do you know about divine nature
that you can assume that the Son must be conjoined still with the one you can somehow still claim is His Father?Scripture says Jesus is the Son of God.
PURE AND SIMPLE TRUTH
You confuse his begotten nature
with the One
from whom he was begotten.Your argument is with scripture and the Spirit who wrote it through men.
Ok,
So you can't answer WHAT he is…Can you answer is the Holy Spirit a IT[FORCE] or a HE [PERSON]?
The word is truth!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi SS.
I admit I know very little about God except that He is spirit and His personality and power that were revealed in His Son.But Jesus called the Holy Spirit in Lk 11.20 [cf Matt 12.28]
“The finger of God”In Joel 2 and other places God speaks of
“My Spirit”So in which way do you think the Spirit of God is another person?
To my brethren,
Thank you all for your welcome and comments.I am
so pleased to find christians discussing the truth and meaning of God's word{ala:the Boreans}and being able to participate.I will read all of your posts and garner new avenues of thought,knowing that truth trumps tradition(no matter what that may be)and hopefully that the knowledge of God's truth will be crystal clear.
All of my life I have believed Jesus is God's Son…AND THAT HAS NOT CHANGED!But,I now am sure that Jesus' power,words,life…came from ..”His God,and ours..His Father
and ours”{John 20:17}.I am not denying Jesus' divinity at all,just that His divinity was given to Him by God{Col.1:19,John14:10…}and as it is
with all father's and sons,the father abides(genetically in human terms,DNA)in the son and the son in the father.Jesus could not be God's Son unless he carried the attributes of The
Father in words,deeds…but,one definitely came before the other.Why else use the titles”Father”and”Son”?We all will be stressing our own understandings in times to come,and hopefully get to have some fine debate,study,and
with God's guidance,the knowledge of truth…I am looking forward to it.I'm going to get back to the rest of the posts now.May the Father bless you all.
TO(NOT Terrel Owens!)Hi TO,
You said; ” I am not denying Jesus' divinity at all,just that His divinity was given to Him by God{Col.1:19,John14:10…}and as it is with all father's and sons,the father abides(genetically in human terms,DNA)in the son and the son in the father.Jesus could not be God's Son unless he carried the attributes of The Father in words,deeds…but,one definitely came before the other.Why else use the titles”Father”and”Son”?”But he was also a vessel for the fullness of deity as the Spirit of God in all the powers and attributes of God.
God was on show through this vessel on earth for all creation to see Him.
God can also fill our earthen vessels with this treasure unto eternity.
Hi SS,
You have not enlightened us either as to how, the divine Son,
who emptied himself and became as like to “one of us”
and yet you claim was born still with all his own amazing powers
that were never seen till his baptism?Was he not really like us at all?
You said ;“So you can't answer WHAT he is…
Can you answer is the Holy Spirit a IT[FORCE] or a HE [PERSON]?”
Do you not know God is spirit?
Does scripture ever say God's Spirit is another person
because that is the only useful information surely?God tells us of his Spirit in Jl 2.
Hello TO, how's things?
I agree with you that Yahshua is divine, but have to take issue with a few things you wrote.Quote (The One @ Aug. 02 2006,03:33) I am not denying Jesus' divinity at all,just that His divinity was given to Him by God{Col.1:19,John14:10…} Colossians 1:19
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him.This verse does not say that Yahshua was given deity.
John 14:10-11
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.Neither does this one. Actually if having the Father “in Him” qualifies Him as being a recipient of the deity, then the Father would also have to be a recipient of His deity, as Yahshua is also “in Him (the Father)”
Quote and as it is
with all father's and sons,the father abides(genetically in human terms,DNA)in the son and the son in the father.Jesus could not be God's Son unless he carried the attributes of The
Father in words,deeds…
I'm not sure it's sensible to use a physical paradigm to draw a metaphysical conclusion, but I take your point…..Quote but,one definitely came before the other.Why else use the titles”Father”and”Son”?
I believe the titles “Father” and “Son” are solely linked to the earthly existence of Yahshua (Luke 1:35, Acts 13:33, Romans 1:4, Hebrews 1:5). I believe He pre-existed His incarnation as “the Word” (John 1:1, 4; 1 John 1:1).Blessings
Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Aug. 01 2006,06:00) Different persons same eternal nature. GOD IS ALONE! there is no one else beside him and there will be no one else after him.
Amen Scripture Seeker!
There is God, and ALL else is creation. There is not multiple divine beings in existence, there is only one.Blessings
Hi Is 1.18
You quote
John 14:10-11
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.Neither does this one. Actually if having the Father “in Him” qualifies Him as being a recipient of the deity, then the Father would also have to be a recipient of His deity, as Yahshua is also “in Him (the Father)”
Rather than just decrying the meaning of scriptures it would be better to show your respect for them by revealing what they do mean. These are the precious words of God and are not to be mocked and pilloried but expounded with care. We can all be negative but we ought to be wise in handling such matters.
Do you agree that God was in Christ, dwelling in his human vessel?
If not why not and how do you read 2Cor 5 18-19?
“
18Now (A)all these things are from God, (B)who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the Âministry of reconciliation,19namely, that (D)God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, (E)not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.”
which aligns with Col 2.9” 9For in Him all the (A)fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,”
If you do agree that God was in Christ then how was Christ in God?
To Scripture Seeker.
Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Aug. 01 2006,06:00) Different persons same eternal nature. GOD IS ALONE! there is no one else beside him and there will be no one else after him. How obviously wrong. Anyone can see that there is no one else but God alone, and yet some promote 3 persons and then say “no one”. So how can they say one and yet believe in 3.
Oh, 1 being 3 persons. Right. Well in that case if you were addressing 3 persons you would say, “them”, “they”, just as you would say “them” when talking about my family. You wouldn't even call my family “him” or “me”. You would only say that if you were addressing one person from my family wouldn't you?
In fact you wouldn't even call 2 people joined at the hips or heart “him” or “you”. You would still say “them” because they maybe one flesh physically (so to speak) but they are 2 identities and it would be an insult to say they were “one person” when they are really 2.
Anyway regarding the triune doctrine, 1 is not 3. This kind of stuff is taught even before Kindergarten, just after colours I think?
Yet for fully grown adults to say it, well what can you say. Brainwashed is one word that comes to mind or drunk is another.
If you believe that God is 3, then you have to call him “they” or “them”. Not “him”, or “one”.
Sorry to break the bad news, but you should address your God as “them” if you teach and believe that God is 3 persons. Be honest.
BUT GOD IS ONE, that hasn't changed.
& God has a son.They are one in spirit of course, then so can we be one in spirit with each other and with God and his son.
We can even partake of this divine nature too.
Hi Is 1.18
You say
“There is God, and ALL else is creation. There is not multiple divine beings in existence, there is only one.”
I agree there is for us
one God
and
one Lord Jesus Christ.
Scripture says so.
But there are many beings greater than natural man.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Aug. 22 2006,09:49) NH,
Is there more than one divine being?
Hi Is 1.18
For us there is but One God.
1Cor 8.1f
” 1Now concerning (A)things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have (B)knowledge Knowledge ©makes arrogant, but love (D)edifies.
2(E)If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet (F)known as he ought to know;3but if anyone loves God, he (G)is known by Him.
4Therefore concerning the eating of (H)things sacrificed to idols, we know that [a]there is (I)no such thing as an idol in the world, and that (J)there is no God but one.
5For even if (K)there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6yet for us (L)there is but one God, (M)the Father, (N)from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and (O)one Lord, Jesus Christ, (P)by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. “
Scripture shows that our God is also the God of Jesus. This scripture also shows that Jesus is not our God but our Lord.We are elevated in Christ above the angels. But angels are greater than natural men
2Peter 2.9f
” 9(AB)then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the (AC)day of judgment,10and especially those who (AD)indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and (AE)despise authority Daring, (AF)self-willed, they do not tremble when they (AG)revile angelic majesties,
11(AH)whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.”
Men worship and serve greater beings but they are not gods to us. Scripture too speaks of them as gods as in 1Cor 8 and also
Ps 97.5 f
” At the presence of the (K)Lord of the whole earth.
6The (L)heavens declare His righteousness,
And (M)all the peoples have seen His glory.
7Let all those be ashamed who serve (N)graven images,
Who boast themselves of (O)idols;
(P)Worship Him, all you gods.
8Zion heard this and (Q)was glad,
And the daughters of Judah have rejoiced
Because of Your judgments, O LORD.
9For You are the LORD ®Most High over all the earth;
You are exalted far (S)above all gods.”
Ps 96
” 11″Now I know that (A)the LORD is greater than all the gods; indeed, (B)it was proven when they dealt proudly against the people.”
etcSatan is the god of this world and judges and idols are all called gods by scripture.You cannot put aside scripture in defence of your doctrinal purity.
For us there is one God and one Lord.
God relates to us and we to Him.The rest of the world have other gods.
Hi Is 1.18
Your questions on this line leads always to declarations that only one being has divine substance and quotations that say there are no gods besides God and then you declare that Jesus must still be in God because of these facts.
This circular reasoning corrals your mind into never looking from other points of view and encompassing the full expression of these matters in scripture.
We do not want to walk around that futile circle any more.And in so doing your theological derivations ignore all the scriptures shown above.
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