John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 9,161 through 9,180 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #308141
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:02)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,13:48)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,13:33)
    Hi Jammin,

    Do you believe “Christ” has a father?

    God bless
    Ed J


    of course.


    Hi Jammin: Who's “The Father of Spirits” mentioned in Hebrews 12:9?

    “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
    and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in sub-
    jection unto  the Father of spirits,  and live?” (Heb. 12:9)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi Jammin,

    Please answer my question.

    #308145
    jammin
    Participant

    i am not against with the verse. the verse is correct but your understanding is wrong.
    but to answer your question, that is God

    now answer mine,
    are you THE ONLY SON OF GOD?

    #308148
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,14:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:21)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:02)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,13:48)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,13:33)
    Hi Jammin,

    Do you believe “Christ” has a father?

    God bless
    Ed J


    of course.


    Hi Jammin: Who's “The Father of Spirits” mentioned in Hebrews 12:9?

    “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
    and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in sub-
    jection unto  the Father of spirits,  and live?” (Heb. 12:9)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi Jammin,

    Please answer my question.


    that is God


    Hi Jammin,

    It is great when you answer!     …and Yes I agree.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #308149
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,14:33)
    now answer mine,
    are you THE ONLY SON OF GOD?


    No

    #308150
    jammin
    Participant

    so???

    now answer mine,
    are you THE ONLY SON OF GOD?

    #308152
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:47)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,14:33)
    now answer mine,
    are you THE ONLY SON OF GOD?


    No


    bump

    #308153
    jammin
    Participant

    thanks for answering

    therefore you are not like Christ.

    God is the father of Christ. he is like his father. they are both truly God by nature.

    #308156
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,14:51)
    therefore you are not like Christ.


    ?

    #308158
    jammin
    Participant

    better luck next time boy.

    you are not the only son of GOD. you answered no
    thanks for the answer.
    it is now clear that you just like your father human is truly HUMAN by nature.

    Christ and his father is TRULY GOD  by nature

    #308164
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,15:01)
    you are not the only son of GOD. you answered no
    thanks for the answer.


    Hi Jammin,

    “For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make
    the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
    for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church
    will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.” (Heb 2:10-13)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #308165
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:49)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,14:47)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,14:33)
    now answer mine,
    are you THE ONLY SON OF GOD?


    No


    bump


    thanks
    this clearly says that Christ is truly God just like his father

    #308174
    journey42
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,13:22)

    Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 05 2012,04:35)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,23:56)
    there is nothing wrong in my post.
    limjunus is a false teacher and it is very obvious.

    how about you? do you believe that Christ is not God?
    if you believe that, you are part of the group of false teachers.

    according to paul

    gal 1.8
    Galatians 1:8

    Good News Translation (GNT)
    8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell!


    Your posts are confusing.
    I believe what the scriptures say; that Jesus is the SON of God.
    To say anything otherwise is to go against scripture.

    John 1:34   And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    John 3:18   He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 5:25   Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    John 11:27   She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

    John 20:31   But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Acts 8:37   And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


    journey

    i believe that Christ is the Son of God.
    but your belief is not the whole truth.
    the bible also says that Christ is God.

    john 20.28
    thomas said to jesus, MY LORD AND MY GOD!

    that is a very clear words from the apostle


    Jammin

    You worship a God that can die.
    My God could never die, or be killed by men.
    No, my God prepared a sacrifice, and that was his only Son.
    Much more difficult to sacrifice your child, than yourself.
    You have to be a parent to understand this.
    You've got your one Thomas verse, that you cannot understand yourself.
    And there are hundreds of verses claiming that Christ is the Son of God,
    So you say these verses are not really true?
    That Christ really tricked us, or fooled us?, or that it is not given to us to understand?

    Don't you know that the message is simple, and for the simple,
    That Christ is not just any man, but he is the only begotten Son of God, he was the Word of God (spirit)
    and he was made flesh in Mary's womb
    by the will of God, not man,
    and he does everything that the Father tells him to do,
    and when he rose he sat on his Fathers right hand side,
    not sat in his Fathers throne,
    but next to him.  
    This should tell you something Jammin.
    Without even having the holy spirit,
    that there are two here, not one,
    but they agree as one, for everything the Son does,
    he imitates his Father.
    If you know the Son, you will know the Father
    as Christ came preaching his Fathers kingdom, not his own.
    And the Father gave Christ a name above every name,
    yes his Father crowned him, and said
    This is my beloved Son,
    believe on him, that I sent him.

    So simple Jammin,
    We all understand this here,
    that's why we talk on heaven net, and not on Christian Chat,
    for there they will love you there and scratch your back,
    and we not on that site, because those trinitarians are real nasty Jammin, just like you have been talking,
    A different spirit in them,
    taking the glory away that God gave his only son,
    saying that Christ is really God, the same,
    thats their only argument, and they have no other knowlege in the scriptures, they don't understand prophesies,
    they don't know what's to come,
    they don't know the great delusion coming,
    they don't even follow the milk or the greatest commandment, to love thy neighbour
    they just condemn, condemn, condemn
    they never move on.
    They reject that title that God gave his only Son,
    They have the spirit of Antichrist, because they don't accept what Christ tells us, and they don't accept what God tells us
    this simple message,

    Matthew 3:17   And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    And instead, they listen to what their church tells them, and not what the scriptures say, they twist, decieve, hate, anything that is of the truth, all the while claiming they are the only ones with the truth, but when you test them, they know nothing, never moving on, staying stagnant, always hating.
    Be careful Jammin,
    You go figure?

    #308176
    jammin
    Participant

    God was manifest in the flesh.
    meaning, Christ who is God by nature became flesh. the body died.

    you are telling not the whole truth of the bible.

    i believe what the bible says,.
    Christ became flesh. he was GOD before he became flesh (phil 2.6)
    Philippians 2:6-7

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    6 Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.
    7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
    he took the humble position of a slave
    and was born as a human being.
    When he appeared in human form

    the body died

    #308188
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,15:38)
    God was manifest in the flesh.
    meaning, Christ who is God by nature became flesh. the body died.

    you are telling not the whole truth of the bible.

    i believe what the bible says,.
    Christ became flesh. he was GOD before he became flesh (phil 2.6)
    Philippians 2:6-7

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    6 Though he was God,
       he did not think of equality with God
       as something to cling to.
    7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
       he took the humble position of a slave
       and was born as a human being.
    When he appeared in human form

    the body died


    Romans 10:9 LB
    9For if you tell others with your own mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and believe in your own heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Acts 2:36 NKJV
    36″Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

    Acts 4:10-12 NKJV
    10let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

    Now, how can you explain that the God (Jammin said: Jesus Christ is truly God) become human being and did not died?

    Did you mean, God had transformed from Supreme being to a mere human being or The One and only true God, step down from being a true God down to a true human being (flesh)?

    What do you mean the body died?

    #308190
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,23:54)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 04 2012,18:58)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,12:01)
    (limjunus @ Aug. 01 2012,23:57)
    Thomas, did not address his saying to Jesus, but instead Thomas, is indirectly uttering that words as “MY LORD AND MY GOD! (OMG!) with his extremely sudden emotion………..
    ——————————————————

    can you give me a translation that thomas said in john 20.28 OH MY GOD?

    ill wait boy
    you may ask for help


    Jammin, The (OMG!) is just the equal words of “MY LORD AND MY GOD! exclaimed by Thomas.

    I have explained it very will, the real issue in what Thomas to be believing is?. Thomas has been corrected by Jesus, that he must believed that the resurrection idea is real and not the issue of, if Jesus is Lord and God?

    Just read it back.


    i do not need your opinion.

    give me a translation that thomas said OH MY GOD in john 20.28

    can you give one or not?


    Did I said that the John 20:28 is not THE WRITTEN “MY LORD AND MY GOD”?

    I had my explanation why I said that the verse is equal with the OMG! do not divert the issue Jammin. I did not said that there is a translation of John 20:28 “OH MY GOD!”

    YOU ARE TRYING HARD TO DIVERT THE MAIN ISSUE TO THE OTHER MATTER.

    You are so very dangerous person and need to be wactt very carefully.

    For almost a week since I have asked you a very simple question, but until this moment you have failed to answer it.

    Jammin stand: Jesus Christ and the Father has the same nature of God, therefore both of them truly God.

    Now, Here is again my questions:

    1.) 'WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, Jesus Christ, the begotten Son of God, or his Father who had begotten him?

    2.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZED?

    The questions is almost a week since and then. Why Jammin?

    If you are not a false teacher, why you can not able to answer the simple questions of mine?

    Peace :D ???

    #308192
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,23:56)

    Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 04 2012,16:05)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 04 2012,15:53)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2012,04:24)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 03 2012,19:42)
    limjunus,

    john 17.3 is correct but your interpretation is wrong
    i do not have a problem with that. i believe that Christ is the son of God. i also believe that Christ is God. the apostles said that.

    John 20:28

    New International Version (NIV)

    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

    John 20:28

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

    you just pick what you want but you do not believe  what the whole bible says.

    i believe that there is only one father who is truly God. john 17.3

    the bible also says that the son is truly God.
    1  john 5.20
    john 1.1

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    My Lord and my God – In this passage the name God is expressly given to Christ, in his own presence and by one of his own apostles. This declaration has been considered as a clear proof of the divinity of Christ, for the following reasons:

    1. There is no evidence that this was a mere expression, as some have supposed, of surprise or astonishment.

    2. The language was addressed to Jesus himself – “Thomas …said unto him.”

    3. The Saviour did not reprove him or check him as using any improper language. If he had not been divine, it is impossible to reconcile it with his honesty that he did not rebuke the disciple. No pious man would have allowed such language to be addressed to him. Compare Acts 14:13-15; Revelation 22:8-9.

    4. The Saviour proceeds immediately to commend Thomas for believing; but what was the evidence of his believing? It was this declaration, and this only. If this was a mere exclamation of surprise, what proof was it that Thomas believed? Before this he doubted. Now he believed, and gave utterance to his belief, that Jesus was his Lord and his God.

    5. If this was not the meaning of Thomas, then his exclamation was a mere act of profaneness, and the Saviour would not have commended him for taking the name of the Lord his God in vain. The passage proves, therefore, that it is proper to apply to Christ the name Lord and God, and thus accords with what John affirmed in John 1:1, and which is established throughout this gospel.

    sorry boy but you need to study hard. your words are non sense


    spin


    1. There is no evidence that this was a mere expression, as some have supposed, of surprise or astonishment. [There is evidence, read verse John 20:26-29 NLT]

    2. The language was addressed to Jesus himself – “Thomas …said unto him.” [addressed to Jesus as a respond and not clarifying us that his believe is Jesus his Lord and His God. Thomas is in the state of very strong shocked and big regret and shouting the OMG!]  

    3. The Saviour did not reprove him or check him as using any improper language. If he had not been divine, it is impossible to reconcile it with his honesty that he did not rebuke the disciple. No pious man would have allowed such language to be addressed to him. Compare Acts 14:13-15; Revelation 22:8-9. [There is a rebuttal done by Jesus. Do not be unbeliever but be a believer of the resurrection. The context or the issue is not who Jesus is, but the is Jesus was raised from the dead (resurrection doctrine).]

    4. The Saviour proceeds immediately to commend Thomas for believing; but what was the evidence of his believing? It was this declaration, and this only. If this was a mere exclamation of surprise, what proof was it that Thomas believed? Before this he doubted. Now he believed, and gave utterance to his belief, that Jesus was his Lord and his God.

    5. If this was not the meaning of Thomas, then his exclamation was a mere act of profaneness, and the Saviour would not have commended him for taking the name of the Lord his God in vain. The passage proves, therefore, that it is proper to apply to Christ the name Lord and God, and thus accords with what John affirmed in John 1:1, and which is established throughout this gospel. [Thomas uttering the name of the Lord and God in a very big regret for being unbeliever; there Thomas didn't use the name of his God in vain]

    Be careful Jammin. Next time be sure that you are old enough to understand the real context of the Bible you have believing.

    Peace.  :D  ???


    Jammin

    Are you a christian?
    Because if you have hatred and spite inside your heart, then
    it will manifest sooner or later for all to see and be used as a witness against you,
    and knowledge won't be revealed to you.
    If the Spirit of God is truly inside you, then it should be growing in wisdom and love,
    if not, then double check that spirit inside you,
    cause it doesn't sound right from here what comes out of your mouth, and what you say only makes sense to you and no-one else,
    Not to late to repent, even if others don't agree with you,
    you should love and agree to disagree without falling into a hole to prove your point.
    Believe what you wish but don't sin.


    there is nothing wrong in my post.
    limjunus is a false teacher and it is very obvious.

    how about you? do you believe that Christ is not God?
    if you believe that, you are part of the group of false teachers.

    according to paul

    gal 1.8
    Galatians 1:8

    Good News Translation (GNT)
    8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell!


    Where is in that passages that Jesus Christ is the One and only true God?

    The issue with the verse is the “different gospel”,.. and you are very fitted with the passages because the One and only true is immortal and you (Jammin) have recognized that Jesus Christ is truly God, then died and then raised from the dead by another truly God (the Father).

    The genuine gospel is, “Romans 10:9 NKJV
    9that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Acts 4:10 New Living Translation (NLT)
    10 Let me clearly state to all of you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed by the powerful name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the man you crucified but whom God raised from the dead.

    The gospel of Jammin is, “Jesus Christ is truly God, hath died and but has been raised from the dead by another trul
    y God.

    Now Jammin, is your gospel the same with the apostles gospel? Oh' come on ,…man…! you have been caught with your over cleverness.

    #308193
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 05 2012,21:39)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,23:54)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 04 2012,18:58)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,12:01)
    (limjunus @ Aug. 01 2012,23:57)
    Thomas, did not address his saying to Jesus, but instead Thomas, is indirectly uttering that words as “MY LORD AND MY GOD! (OMG!) with his extremely sudden emotion………..
    ——————————————————

    can you give me a translation that thomas said in john 20.28 OH MY GOD?

    ill wait boy
    you may ask for help


    Jammin, The (OMG!) is just the equal words of “MY LORD AND MY GOD! exclaimed by Thomas.

    I have explained it very will, the real issue in what Thomas to be believing is?. Thomas has been corrected by Jesus, that he must believed that the resurrection idea is real and not the issue of, if Jesus is Lord and God?

    Just read it back.


    i do not need your opinion.

    give me a translation that thomas said OH MY GOD in john 20.28

    can you give one or not?


    Did I said that the John 20:28 is not THE WRITTEN “MY LORD AND MY GOD”?

    I had my explanation why I said that the verse is equal with the OMG! do not divert the issue Jammin. I did not said that there is a translation of John 20:28 “OH MY GOD!”

    YOU ARE TRYING HARD TO DIVERT THE MAIN ISSUE TO THE OTHER MATTER.

    You are so very dangerous person and need to be wactt very carefully.

    For almost a week since I have asked you a very simple question, but until this moment you have failed to answer it.

    Jammin stand: Jesus Christ and the Father has the same nature of God, therefore both of them truly God.

    Now, Here is again my questions:

    1.) 'WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, Jesus Christ, the begotten Son of God, or his Father who had begotten him?

    2.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZED?

    The questions is almost a week since and then. Why Jammin?

    If you are not a false teacher, why you can not able to answer the simple questions of mine?

    Peace :D  ???


    1 Timothy 1:17 New Living Translation (NLT)
    17 All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies (immortal); he alone is God. Amen.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    New Living Translation (NLT)
    5 For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.

    The genuine gospel of the apostles: ” Jesus Christ is a man between God and men.

    Jammin gospel: ” Jesus Christ is truly God, a Truly God between God and men= Truly God mediating truly God and men.

    The genuine gospel of the apostles: ” Truly God is only one and immortal…”

    Jammin gospel: ” Truly God with a truly God and died.[B]

    So, what is the advice of the apostles if there is a different gospel that they didn't preach Jammin? throw it out to the hell, right or wrong?

    #308195
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2012,00:00)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 04 2012,15:20)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 03 2012,19:49)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 03 2012,10:07)


    ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ κύριος μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.

    the greek bible also says that thomas said these words to jesus!

    in english,
    and thomas answered and said unto him…

    kurios mous kai ho theos mou! MY LORD AND MY GOD!

    but this false teacher said a different story.

    let me post what limjunus said

    (limjunus @ Aug. 01 2012,23:57)
    Thomas, did not address his saying to Jesus, but instead Thomas, is indirectly uttering that words as “MY LORD AND MY GOD! (OMG!) with his extremely sudden emotion…………..

    tsk tsk tsk.. you are really a false teacher boy


    :)  Jammin is trying very hard to prove his stand that Jesus Christ is truly God.  Using and capitalizing the John 20:28 from  his favorite version (NIRV) and avoiding to use the version of New Living Translation.

    “27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”

    28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

    And the God words translation (GW)

    27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, and believe.”

    28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

    And the CEB translation.

    27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here. Look at my hands. Put your hand into my side. No more disbelief. Believe!”

    28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

    Jammin avoiding to use the above versions because he could not really prove that Jesus Christ is the Lord and God, in using the Thomas respond to the said event with exclamation remark!!! and Jammin is trying very hard to hide the real facts and issue with confrontation between Jesus and Thomas.

    I am not the false teacher,.. you are, Mr. Barnes and your wrongful interpretation of the action of Thomas with the event.

    Sorry Jammin. You are relying not with the Bible true context but only with your own “ego” and misrepresentation.

    Peace>  :D


    im not avoiding boy the NLT.

    actually, if you post most of the translation of john 20.28 it says that Christ is LORD and God.

    no matter what version you post, Christ is thomas' LORD and GOD

    ill give you many versions boy

    New International Version (©1984)
    Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    And Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord, and my God.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    American King James Version
    And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God.

    American Standard Version
    Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God.

    English Revised Version
    Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    And Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God.

    Weymouth New Testament
    “My Lord and my God!” replied Thomas.

    World English Bible
    Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Young's Literal Translation
    And Thomas answered and said to him, 'My Lord and my God;'

    ———
    see ? no versions that say OH MY GOD! LOL

    but you can make your own boy to support your illusion!
    LOL


    As what and based with the real context of the Bible regardless of any versions.

    The issue is Thomas is not believing that Jesus Christ was already raised from the dead by God, proving that the resurrection is real.

    The John 20:28 issue is not to prove that Jesus Christ is the One and only true God. Thomas exclaimed, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!” is as a show of reaction filled with humiliation/ embarrassing/ in the state of shocked and most of all, show of guiltiness.

    He has a faulty believe and need to be corrected, that he must believe that Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead by God (Romans 10:9) and not expressing or teaching that Jesus Christ is his LORD and GOD.

    That's the truth of the Bible concerning the John 20:28 verse except you have another gospel Jammin?

    Peace.

    :D :D :D :D :D [B]

    #308200
    limjunus
    Participant

    I will not deal with Jammin, any more except he will answer the existing questions of mine. He could not find the rightful answers, that's why he just ignore it. How come he has a gut to join with this discussion if he has not fully equip with the truth about God?

    Peace> :D ??? :D :(

    #308202
    journey42
    Participant

    [quote=jammin,Aug. 05 2012,15:38][/quote]
    Jammin,

    Are you explaining to me?
    I would like us to have a respectful conversation with each other? Is this possible?
    I will address everything you say, respectfully.

    Quote
    God was manifest in the flesh.
    meaning, Christ who is God by nature became flesh. the body died.


    Yes, this statement is true.  No denying what the scripture says.  
    God was manifested in the flesh.
    God's Word, his spirit, his godly qualities, his holiness, his wisdom, his power and righteousness was manifest in his Son.
    But that still doesn't make Christ the Father,
    It makes him exactly like his Father,
    his replica, his mirror image.

    Colossians 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    Quote
    you are telling not the whole truth of the bible.


    Is that so?, lets go into it more then.

    Quote
    i believe what the bible says,.
    Christ became flesh. he was GOD before he became flesh (phil 2.6)
    Philippians 2:6-7


    Ok, lets look
    Philippians 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

    Phillpians 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and made in the likeness of men.

    Again, of course Christ was in the form of God.  He has his Fathers qualities, his Father's righteousness, his Fathers holiness.  He obeys the Fathers will, so he is exactly like his Father, with the same purpose, drawing men unto him.
    And he did not find that by being just like his Father, that he was stealing his Father's identity, or title, or position, no way, he always gave his Father the glory, not himself, and if we act like God, then it's not robbery either, but what the Father wants us to do, imitate Christ, as he imitated his Father.
    Christ overcame in the flesh, by worshiping in the spirit.
    This is our example, that we too can overcome the flesh,
    just like Christ did till death,
    our example remember,
    that it can be done.
    It is possible to achieve,
    but we will never be perfect like Christ, without blemish
    but we must try our hardest to rid those blemishes by obeying his Word.

    “But made himself of no reputation” everything he did was for honouring his Father.  He made this clear.  He never once claimed he was the Father.

    Now look at this New Living Translation that you use?
    6 Though he was God,
       he did not think of equality with God
       as something to cling to.

    Though he was God?
    Pardon?
    this is not what the scripture really says.

    7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
       he took the humble position of a slave
       and was born as a human being.

    Ok, this one is not that different, but I don't like the way they use the word slave in this verse.  I don't think that was the descriptive word God intended.  

    Your bible has changed the words compared to the faithful King James.  It has been cleverly rewritten to endorse the trinity doctrine.  The KJV is not endorsed in most churches.
    Why Jammin?
    Ask yourself?
    Are you aware of the depths of Satan?
    How he goes into the churches, even God's Holy word and corrupts the truth?
    and inspires this new reprinted, revised version  to go mainstream.
    Be aware of his tricks.
    I'm glad you showed me your version, now I understand exactly why you believe what you believe and why you say the things you say.
    I hope you can see this without getting angry.

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