John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 8,801 through 8,820 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #306462
    kerwin
    Participant

    To all,

    Should we not all seek to cut down on the size of our posts by only quoting that part of the posts we are responding to; just as some have instructed Frank to do with those sources he uses.

    #306465
    kerwin
    Participant

    Marty,

    Quote
    We are children of God by the Spirit of Adoption having come to God with a repentant heart believing what He has done for us in the person of His Only Begotten Son.  We have been born again from the dead.

    Are believers adopted sons of the flesh or of the spirit?

    Quote
    Jesus is the “Monogenes” Son of the Living God, than he is unique in the way that “He is a Son of the Living God”.

    Isaiah is called the “monogenes” son of Abraham even though Ishmael is also his son, why is that?

    Quote
    Any way that you want to read this, with the His own blood, with the blood of the Lord, or the blood of His Son, it is still His own blood.  Just any blood of any ordinary man will never wash away our sins.

    Any other man has fallen short of God’s glory; while Jesus has not sinned even though tempted as is common to man.  It is written that the prayers of a righteous man are powerful, how much more the blood that is shed by one who did not sin but instead acted in mercy to seal the contract with his blood and so reconcile a people to God.

    #306475
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ July 21 2012,06:44)
    To all,

    Should we not all seek to cut down on the size of our posts by only quoting that part of the posts we are responding to; just as some have instructed Frank to do with those sources he uses.


    Well, It seems that I have become one of the topics of discussion now in this forum thread. :D

    Mike says that problem is, and I quote:

    Quote
    scroll through million [which is of course, an over-exaggeration] word cut and pastes

    Well, what about me coming here and having to [I'll use Mike's over-exaggeration] scroll through millions of posts of people in a never ending bickering match over what they believe Scripture is saying and never coming to any conclusions or coming to any agreement? I have never voiced any complaints concerning scrolling, so why complain about my once in a while posting a complete article that I tend to agree with and wanting to share it with others? The reason that I have never complained about scrolling through your never ending bickering match is simply because I really do not find it that difficult [or “hard” as Mike so erroneously described it] to do. I really do not understand the difficulty in scrolling, since it is something that I do on a daily basis in my use of the internet.

    And Mike,

    I find it laughable that you set yourself up to speak for all here in saying, and I quote:

    Quote
    I don't really think any of us read them anymore. We started off reading them, but then when we questioned you about some of the unscriptural statements in them, you wouldn't answer us.

    I think most of us just figured that if the articles were going to contain unscriptural stuff, and you weren't going to stand and defend them, then why bother reading them in the first place?

    So, you have set yourself up here as one who determines for everyone else here what is Scriptural and what is not Scriptural? Oh really! Then why is it that I have only found two others here that agree with you and everyone else argues against what it is the you teach here? You are nothing but a wolf-faced liar!

    As for defending what these articles that I post say, I believe the articles speak for themselves and are very well thought out and written by the authors that wrote them. I find them very understandable from a laymen's point of view. And as for someone going to my web site to read these articles, from my experience on posting links on forums, I have found that very few, if any at all, will venture outside the forum to read them. I get such silly excuses such as “I do not visit web sites.” I find such an excuse silly because they are in fact on a web site to begin with and I am quite sure that they are in fact lying and do visit other web sites. The fact is, they simply do not want to take into consideration another point of view, and weigh the evidence in accordance with Scripture, because they already have their mind made up or they are simply just lazy and don't want to read what you refer to as “huge articles” when in fact they are not “huge” at all. The only thing that would make these articles such a “huge” task is that these articles require that you also look up the Scriptural verses and passages and to read them in the context of the Scripture itself. You and I both both know that hardly anyone wants to actually exert themselves in studying Scripture! They would rather lay their so-called “Holy Bibles” on their coffee tables and collect dust in hopes that their “God” will bless them somehow in doing so. They use them as mere “good luck charms”. They would rather listen to false prophets and their preachers and have them erroneously tell them what the Scripture says.

    Come on and be truthful with yourself! You are not “asking on behalf of 'MANY' … who find the threads 'HARD' to follow … to scroll through million [again, an over-exaggeration] word cut and pastes.” There is simply nothing “hard” about scrolling! Anyone who uses the internet scrolls on a regular basis! You would not even have brought it up if your whinny complaining student Pieear had not said that it caused him “confusion”. Why did it cause him “confusion”? Certainly scrolling does not cause him “confusion”, since I am quite sure that he also scrolls on a regular basis. I believe what truly caused hm “confusion” is that he actually took the time out the read the articles or parts of them. It is quite obvious to me that Pieear is one of yours and t8's students and has chosen you two as his personal rabbis.

    #306482
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ July 20 2012,13:44)
    To all,

    Should we not all seek to cut down on the size of our posts by only quoting that part of the posts we are responding to………..


    Yes, Kerwin, we should.

    If some of you don't know how to cut and paste just the recent part of the conversation, I'm sure Ed and I could help you with it in Ed's thread about this kind of stuff.  (Ed, I forget the name of the thread where you give a tutorial on bolding and colors, etc.)

    But seriously, you don't need to post the entire million word discussion each time – only the last thing the other guy said.

    #306485
    terraricca
    Participant

    Charles

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    God never created His Son.

    God crated first the spiritual beings through His Son while still within the Father.

    Then after the rebel,He emanated His Son to recreate all our visible creation through Him as the FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE NO MATTER WHAT?

    Did you ever realized that through the above statement Jesus' Spirit was also the first ever evil creature in Lucifer??

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    Quote
    Charles,
    This is not in scriptures ,and so could not be trusted ,

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    For the love of Jesus!!

    Be specific.

    I said many things in that statement,and it is all in scripture

    you said that Christ was NOT created ,now Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    #306486
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Frank,

    If we are discussing Phil 2, and I ask you how someone who ALREADY IS existing in the likeness of a human being can BE MADE in the likeness of a human being, posting a million words from some non-preexister isn't an answer to my question.

    Now, on the off chance that one of your favored authors DOES actually comment on that particular point, then feel free to cut and paste ONLY THAT PART of their million word letter.

    Also, when you first joined this site, I took one of your million word cut and paste jobs apart, bit by bit, and showed you where the claims the author made were not only frivilous and illogical, but also unscriptural.  But YOU didn't want to comment on the things I pointed out.  So then I asked how we could get that particular author to come and defend the unscriptural things he wrote, and you told me that author was dead now.

    Do you remember this, Frank?

    Anyone can post a bunch of unscriptural, slanted propaganda that supposedly supports their doctrine.  But whoever posts it should be man enough to DEFEND those claims under scrutiny.

    Every other single person on this site tries their best to scriptually DEFEND the things they post…………… why not you?

    #306493
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,10:15)
    Frank,

    If we are discussing Phil 2, and I ask you how someone who ALREADY IS existing in the likeness of a human being can BE MADE in the likeness of a human being, posting a million words from some non-preexister isn't an answer to my question.

    Now, on the off chance that one of your favored authors DOES actually comment on that particular point, then feel free to cut and paste ONLY THAT PART of their million word letter.

    Also, when you first joined this site, I took one of your million word cut and paste jobs apart, bit by bit, and showed you where the claims the author made were not only frivilous and illogical, but also unscriptural.  But YOU didn't want to comment on the things I pointed out.  So then I asked how we could get that particular author to come and defend the unscriptural things he wrote, and you told me that author was dead now.

    Do you remember this, Frank?

    Anyone can post a bunch of unscriptural, slanted propaganda that supposedly supports their doctrine.  But whoever posts it should be man enough to DEFEND those claims under scrutiny.

    Every other single person on this site tries their best to scriptually DEFEND the things they post……………  why not you?


    Mike,

    Do not give dogs what is set apart; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces (Mattithyah [Matthew] 7:6).

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #306495
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Mike,

    You again have been owed! You might want to change your image! :D


    Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing [dressed in Father Yahweh inspired word], but inwardly are ravening wolves (Mattithyah [Matthew] 7:15).


    Do not give dogs what is set apart; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces (Mattithyah [Matthew] 7:6).

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #306500
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    For those of you who aren't yet familiar with Frank's secret language, he calls his inablility to defend the nonsensical things he claims on this site “owning” the other person.

    And yes Frank, you've shown once again how good you are at “owning” me.

    #306501
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,13:17)
    For those of you who aren't yet familiar with Frank's secret language, he calls his inablility to defend the nonsensical things he claims on this site “owning” the other person.

    And yes Frank, you've shown once again how good you are at “owning” me.

    Mike,

    No, wrong your again!  In other words, “I've got you over a barrel sucker!”  :D


    Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing [dressed in Father Yahweh inspired word], but inwardly are ravening wolves (Mattithyah [Matthew] 7:15).


    Do not give dogs what is set apart; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces (Mattithyah [Matthew] 7:6).

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #306524
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,09:26)

    Quote (jammin @ July 17 2012,21:02)
    your christ is not a real GOD boy!


    My Christ is the one the Most High God ANOINTED, jammin.  That is was “christ” means, after all.  It refers to one who was anointed BY God Almighty – not one who IS God Almighty.

    And Jesus is just as real of a god as Satan is.  But just like Satan, who is also a son of God, Jesus was created by the Most High God.

    God has many sons, jammin.  Do you think that because their God and Father is from eternity, all of them are also from eternity?  Or do you only break the “logic” rule when it comes to Jesus?


    how did they become sons of GOD? like christ???

    the bible says GOD has only one son and that is Christ.
    you are really a false teacher boy.

    Christ is the one and only son of GOD!
    you want verse boy?
    here is the verse
    John 1:14

    New International Version (NIV)

    14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    John 1:14

    Good News Translation (GNT)

    14 The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son.

    GOD has a son who is also GOD by nature.

    GOD by nature is eternal boy!
    GOD by nature is almighty boy! GOD by nature is not created boy!

    HUMAN by nature is created boy! HUMAN by nature is not almighty boy! HUMAN by nature is not eternal boy!

    your logic is non sense boy.
    your HUMAN father is not created but you as HUMAN is created. LOL

    that is your logic boy.

    i accept what the bible says, the bible says that GOD has a begotten son and that is Christ.
    he is also GOD by nature and not god boy

    he is truly GOD just like his father!

    edj,

    it refers to the bible
    the verse you quoted is not referring to the false teacher.
    drink your medicine and take a rest. your brain needs nutrition

    #306525
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 21 2012,10:03)
    Charles

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    God never created His Son.

    God crated first the spiritual beings through His Son while still within the Father.

    Then after the rebel,He emanated His Son to recreate all our visible creation through Him as the FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE NO MATTER WHAT?

    Did you ever realized that through the above statement Jesus' Spirit was also the first ever evil creature in Lucifer??

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    Quote
    Charles,
    This is not in scriptures ,and so could not be trusted ,

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    For the love of Jesus!!

    Be specific.

    I said many things in that statement,and it is all in scripture

    you said that Christ was NOT created ,now Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


    LOL

    frstborn of every creature in col 1.15 does not mean that Christ was created.
    it talks about the supremacy of Christ.

    Colossians 1:15

    Lexham English Bible (LEB)

    15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all[a] creation,

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,

    People's New Testament

    1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God. He came in order to reveal the Father in his own person. See Joh 14:10 Heb 1:3. The love of God is revealed in Christ. He was the visible representative of the invisible God.

    The firstborn of every creature. The thought is that he existed before creation began; born of God instead of being created by the divine fiat; born before any creature was called into existence. The passage does not say that he was the first created, but the first-born. He was before creation. See Joh 1:1,2.

    you are really a hard headed just like your boss mike.

    may GOD open your eyes

    #306538
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 20 2012,06:44)

    Quote (carmel @ July 20 2012,04:40)
    Terraricca,

    God never created His Son.

    God crated first the spiritual beings through His Son while still within the Father.

    peace and love in Jesus
    Charles


    Hi Charles.

    I believe Jesus was part of God (as well) in his preexistent state.

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org


    Quote
    I believe Jesus was part of God (as well) in his preexistent state.

    Edj,

    First and formost not Jesus, but Jesus' Spirit.

    Jesus' Spirit was not only part of God, But God Himself in a particular, genuine, spiritual, substance both separated and STILL ETERNALLY ONE WITH HIMSELF.

    This particular unfathomable spirit was transferred into all the entire creation AS A MEDIATOR OF BOTH VERSATILE SPIRITS AND FLESH CREATURES.  WATER AND BLOOD

    First, WHILE MAINTAINED THE ONESS IN THE FATHER, with the power of the Holy Spirit, inserted and formed HIMSELF into all the spiritual creatures.

    After the rebel, WHILE  HE MAINTAINED HIS DIVINITY IN THE FATHER, THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, He left the Father AND  BURRIED HIMSELF  THROUGHOUT the entire visible creatures, in both SPIRIT AND MATTER, AND EVENTUALLY SOULS and FLESH, and ended His process, THE WORKS OF GOD , as the flesh of MARY, the only GENUINE pure fruit through THE WHOLE PROCESS of creation to be also:

    GOD'S GENUINE FLESH IN JESUS.  JESUS’ SPIRIT INTO FLESH.

    So JESUS COMMENCED GOD’S WORKS AS GOD’S GENUINE SPIRIT,AND GRADUALLY,ENDED HIS WORKS AS GOD’S GENUINE FLESH BODY.

    NOTWITHSTANDIG THE FACT THAT OUR CREATION WAS TOTAL EVIL DUE TO THE REABILTATION OF THE EVIL SPIRITS OF LUCIFER AND HIS ANGELS.

    THE HIGHEST,AND THE LOWEST ELEMENTS  THROUGH CREATION, LIGHT AND DARKNESS,FOR GOD TO BE ALL IN ALL!!

    PURPOSELY AND ONLY FOR GOD TO ABIDE WITHIN AS GOD MAN IN THE MOST UNIQUE PURE HUMAN BEING EVER EXISTED AND WALKED ON EARTH ,JESUS CHRIST.
    THE PLEASURE OF GOD THE FATHER TO BE IN HIS FULLNESS IN HIM, TO BE FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER THEIR GOD. THE FIRST EVER GOD MAN THAT  WALKED ON EARTH.

    GOD THE FATHER IN ORDER TO BE A GOD FOR THE HUMAN EYE IN JESUS, HE PREFERRED TO BE BORN AMONG ANIMALS, HUMILIATED,BEATEN,SCOURAGED, SPIT UPON, NAILED ON THE CROSS,AND ONLY LEFT JESUS IN ORDER FOR JESUS TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE ALL HIS BRETHREN, AND FOR THE LAST TIME AS A HUMAN,TAKEN BY  SATAN’S SPIRIT TO HELL BUT ALSO  FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, CAME OUT OF IT, GLORIFIED AND  REPLACED  SATAN ENTIRELY IN OUR CREATION,SEALED BY THE FATHER IN NATURE AS THE WORKS OF GOD.

    SATAN'S DREAM ERADICATED! THROUGH HIS OWN FREE WILL,THROUGH HIS OWN PLAN,THROUGH HIS OWN ELEMENTS.

    Millions and millions of years ago our world was an evil world, filled with Lucifer and his angels under the impression, obvious through Lucifer’s ambition, that they, themselves are able to create their own evil world and own a kingdom with the dream that one day they would achieve manhood. Unaware of the presence of Jesus’ Spirit within them, in order to achieve their dream, since He was the only life, and power source, God, six thousands years ago, transformed Lucifer’s own evil beast body into the first ever MAN, ADAM, and gave him the first ever SOUL. all this through Jesus’ Spirit with the power of the Holy Spirit.

    God again lost both SOUL and FLESH BODY IN ADAM. IT SEEMED TOTAL LOSS FOR GOD!!  SATAN SMILED GOD LOVED IT. TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, JESUS DIED,GOD SMILED AND SATAN INFLAMED THROUGHOUT.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #306542
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ July 21 2012,07:25)
    accept what the bible says, the bible says that GOD has a begotten son and that is Christ.
    he is also GOD by nature and not god boy

    he is truly GOD just like his father!


    It seems to me that you have TWO Gods, jammin.  It seems that you believe one of those two Gods is “just like” the other one.  But then again, you constantly talk about Jesus being a DIFFERENT God who “has the nature of” the Most High God, don't you?  You might as well join forces with Lightenup so you can both teach us about our TWO Almighty Gods.  ???

    You said:

    Quote
    the bible says GOD has only one son and that is Christ.
    you are really a false teacher boy.

    Christ is the one and only son of GOD!


    6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

    Once again, it seems that it is YOU who teaches contrary to scripture, jammin.  So who's REALLY the “false teacher”?

    jammin, let me make this as simple as I can for you:

    1.  You and I agree that there is but ONE Most High God, right?  YES.

    2.  You and I agree that our ONE Most High God has a Son named Jesus, right?  YES.

    3.  You and I agree that Jesus does NOT have a Son named Jesus, right?  YES.

    Therefore, no matter how much you want to muddy up the issue with nonsensical mish-mash, the FACT remains that our ONE God is the one who has a Son named Jesus.

    If you want to teach things OTHER THAN that, then it is YOU who is the false teacher.

    #306548
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 21 2012,10:03)
    Charles

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    God never created His Son.

    God crated first the spiritual beings through His Son while still within the Father.

    Then after the rebel,He emanated His Son to recreate all our visible creation through Him as the FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE NO MATTER WHAT?

    Did you ever realized that through the above statement Jesus' Spirit was also the first ever evil creature in Lucifer??

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    Quote
    Charles,
    This is not in scriptures ,and so could not be trusted ,

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    For the love of Jesus!!

    Be specific.

    I said many things in that statement,and it is all in scripture

    you said that Christ was NOT created ,now Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


    Quote
    the firstborn of every creature:

    Terraricca,

    That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created both as invisible and visible creatures. Not that He Himself was created.

    John1:3All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.

    Notice ALL THINGS were made by him, so He was not made, SINCE ALL THINGS otherwise HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THOSE ALL THINGS, and scripture would have said : All things were made by him, AFTER  HE WAS MADE.

    THEREFORE JESUS COULD NEVER EVER BE CREATED!!

    Now read  and reflect:

    John 1;1;2 For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and hath appeared to us:

    For the life was manifested, ( VISIBLE) THEREFORE JESUS. and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the  LIFE ETERNAL,  AGAIN: THEREFORE JESUS:  which was WITH THE FATHER, and hath appeared to us, AGAIN: THEREFORE JESUS

    SO JESUS  BECAME VISIBLE AS MAN.( SO HE WAS INVISIBLE AS GOD IN HIS FATHER)

    IS LIFE ETERNAL. THEREFORE NEVER CREATED.

    AND WAS WITH THE FATHER. THEREFORE ONCE THE FATHER IS ETERNAL ALSO JESUS' SPIRIT .

    SO IF JESUS IS LIFE ETERNAL,AND WAS WITH THE FATHER,HOW ON EARTH COULD HAVE BEEN EVER CREATED???

    Peace and love in Jesus
    Charles

    #306553
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Charles,

    Jesus said he lives because of the Father.

    #306556
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ July 22 2012,11:38)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 21 2012,10:03)
    Charles

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    God never created His Son.

    God crated first the spiritual beings through His Son while still within the Father.

    Then after the rebel,He emanated His Son to recreate all our visible creation through Him as the FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE NO MATTER WHAT?

    Did you ever realized that through the above statement Jesus' Spirit was also the first ever evil creature in Lucifer??

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    Quote
    Charles,
    This is not in scriptures ,and so could not be trusted ,

    Quote
    Terraricca,

    For the love of Jesus!!

    Be specific.

    I said many things in that statement,and it is all in scripture

    you said that Christ was NOT created ,now Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


    Quote
    the firstborn of every creature:

    Terraricca,

    That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created both as invisible and visible creatures. Not that He Himself was created.

    John1:3All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.

    Notice ALL THINGS were made by him, so He was not made, SINCE ALL THINGS otherwise HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THOSE ALL THINGS, and scripture would have said : All things were made by him, AFTER  HE WAS MADE.

    THEREFORE JESUS COULD NEVER EVER BE CREATED!!

    Now read  and reflect:

    John 1;1;2 For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and hath appeared to us:

    For the life was manifested, ( VISIBLE) THEREFORE JESUS. and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the  LIFE ETERNAL,  AGAIN: THEREFORE JESUS:  which was WITH THE FATHER, and hath appeared to us, AGAIN: THEREFORE JESUS

    SO JESUS  BECAME VISIBLE AS MAN.( SO HE WAS INVISIBLE AS GOD IN HIS FATHER)

    IS LIFE ETERNAL. THEREFORE NEVER CREATED.

    AND WAS WITH THE FATHER. THEREFORE ONCE THE FATHER IS ETERNAL ALSO JESUS' SPIRIT .

    SO IF JESUS IS LIFE ETERNAL,AND WAS WITH THE FATHER,HOW ON EARTH COULD HAVE BEEN EVER CREATED???

    Peace and love in Jesus
    Charles


    Charles

    Quote
    That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created both as invisible and visible creatures. Not that He Himself was created.

    you start to make me sick with your statement like ;That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created;

    WHAT YOU THINK IS SO IRRELEVANT TO GODS WORD ,SO QUOTE SCRIPTURES NOT OPINIONS,YOU BASED ALL YOUR FOUNDATION ON A OPINION ,

    #306563
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Pierre,

    When you quote the sentence from Charles (or whoever), that you want to address, please delete the words from the bottom box before posting.

    For example:

    1.  Hit the quote button on the post you want to respond to.

    2.  You will have two boxes:  One above that is blank until you type words in it, and the bottom box that contains the entire post you just “quoted” when you hit the quote button.

    3.  Copy the words you want to respond to from that bottom box, and add those words as a quote in your top box.  (This part you have already been doing.)

    4.  DELETE all the words from the bottom box BEFORE you hit the “Add Reply” button.  

    In this way, you will only be bringing forward the words from Charles post that you wish to address.  There is no need to bring his whole post forward each time when you are only addressing a certain part of his post.

    In the next post I make here, I will show you what your last post in this thread would have looked like if you deleted the entire bottom box before posting.

    #306565
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote
    That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created both as invisible and visible creatures. Not that He Himself was created.


    you start to make me sick with your statement like ;That is only a proof that Jesus' Spirit was the SOURCE of every first species ever created;

    WHAT YOU THINK IS SO IRRELEVANT TO GODS WORD ,SO QUOTE SCRIPTURES NOT OPINIONS,YOU BASED ALL YOUR FOUNDATION ON A OPINION ,

    See Pierre?  We don't need to bring the last week of back and forth discussion over each time we respond just to the last thing the other person said.  You can keep doing the same exact thing you've been doing, just remember to empty that bottom box of words BEFORE submitting your post.  (The top box should now have his quote and your words, but the bottom box will be completely empty.)

    Charles, this is for you too, because you do it the same way Pierre does.

    If you guys need more help on how to do this, just ask me.  :)

    Your friend,
    mike

    #306568
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,05:44)
    Charles,

    Jesus said he lives because of the Father.


    Quote
    Jesus said he lives because of the Father.

    Mike,

    God glorified because of JESUS!!

    That statement it is not that simple.

    Jesus lived as man because He had to die for the Father in order for the Father to be able to become THE REAL GOD TO HUMANS.

    GOD WAS USELESS IN THE OT TIME.

    ALL THOSE MIRACLES,AND PROMISES WERE OF NO USE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT GOD WAS A SPIRIT.

    Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God,

    SO HE WAS NOT THEIR GOD SINCE HE WAS A SPIRIT.

    and they shall be my people.

    SINCE HE WOULD BECOME EVENTUALLY A HUMAN GOD LIKE THEM IN JESUS, THE ONLY WAY OUT.

    34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

    SINCE THROUGH JESUS HE WOULD ABIDE IN THEIR SOULS FOR EVER AND THEY WOULD HEAR HIS VOICE,HIS WORD. SOMETHING THAT HE WAS NOT ABLE TO DO SINCE SATAN MADE THEIR HEART OF STONES, AND LIVED IN THEIR SOULS.


    for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    SINCE JESUS DIED,AND GLORIFIED  BOTH THE FATHER  AND HIMSELF,AND  ERADICATED SIN AND DEATH,SOMETHING THE FATHER COULD NEVER ACHIEVE AS A SPIRIT.

    JOHN 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine

    SINCE GOD ACQUIRED THE MYSTICAL FLESH BODY IN JESUS,AND HE NOW UNDERSTANDS THEIR WEEKNESSES, THEIR VULNERABILITY,FEELS THEIR PAINS, AND THEIR SORROWS,HAVE COMPASSION, AND ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE.

    NOT LIKE HE WAS IN THE OT BUTHCERRING THEM FOR THE LEAST SIN, EVEN UNINTENTIONAL.

    I LOVE YOU JESUS THE ONLY GOD WHO BECAME LIKE ME TO MAKE ME LIKE YOU

    Peace and love in Jesus  the only true God saviour of humanity.

    Charles

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