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John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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  • April 11, 2012 at 10:56 pm#291669
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    The Word, Someone Or Something? Part I

    In this lesson we will deal with the Book of Saint John or more specifically St John chapter 1 verses 1 through 18. Before we get started let’s look at some historical information.
    Yeshua death, burial, resurrection and ascension are generally agreed upon by biblical scholars to have occurred between 26 CE and 36 CE. Since the calendar we have today have been through changes the exact year is hard to say. Several analyses based on astronomical data and computer simulations set the year at 33 CE.
    The book of john is said to have been written nearly 30 years after Matthew, Mark and Luke, somewhere between 70 and 96 CE by John one of the 12 disciples. Let’s look at the reason why John (Yochanan) even wrote his evangel.
    John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Yeshua also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of Elohim
    Yochanan wrote his evangel so that everyone who read it would come to the conclusion that Yeshua is the Messiah and son of Elohim (YHWH), not that he was YHWH! All the info we just read will play an important key in understanding the verses we are about to go over. Please keep everything in mind! Let’s take a look at the verses we are going to be going over. ; and that believing you may have life in His name.
    John 1:1-18 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
    And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.
    6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13
    who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. 15John beareth
    2
    witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me.
    16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Yeshua Messiah. 18
    This is a traditional translation of these successions of verses. Amongst trinitariansNo man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (American Standard Version)
    1 and ditheists2, this is a very important chain of verses. Groups such as these falsely interpret these first few verses (also known as The Prologue of John's Gospel
    Upon investigation of the Greek language, the language from which the Apostolic Writings (New Testament) was translated, it is found that such concepts are not supported by these verses. Further more, the Hebrew Scriptures (the foundation) does not support the false interpretation presented by trinitarians and ditheists! Let’s go to the Tanakh/Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) to see what it says. Now, according to the Tanakh YAH IS ONE, ) of the evangel of Yochanan to support their belief that Yeshua (jesus) is/existed as YHWH, God the Son, the Spokesperson, an angel, a godlike being or some type of conscience entity. Is this an accurate translation and interpretation on these verses? Is Yochanan trying to tell us that Yeshua is the one true “GOD?” Why did John write his gospel? For the answer please refer back to John 20:30-31.
    not two or three
    Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: !
    YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one
    Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, .
    whose name alone is YHWH
    Nechemyahu (Nehemiah) confirms both statements in Deut 6:4 and Psalm 83:18 when he writes… , art the most high over all the earth.
    Nehemiah 9:6 Thou (singular), even thou, art YHWH alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all
    This verse not only contradicts the false doctrine that there are 2 YHWHs, but it also confirms that YHWH is one and that He created everything. He created everything by Himself (ALONE), not Him and another! ; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
    Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith YAH, thy redeemer, and he (singular) that formed thee from the womb, I (singular) am YAH that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself
    These verses show that YAH was the Creator of the universe and all that’s in it (Gen 2:4, Ex 20:11). He did it ALONE (see “Who is The Creator” and “Genesis 1:26 – Let Us .
    1 Trinitarians are those who believe in a tri-unity or triune god, namely the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the “trinity” or “triunity of God” refers to the idea that “there is one God, eternally existent in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit” or somehow “triune/3” at the same time that He is “one.” The three “persons,” according to the classical dogma, are “co-equal, co-eternal, co-omniscient,” etc., i.e. equal in every way, but they are also distinct from each other, each “person” having a discrete existence and function of his own. Because the Son has a discrete existence of his own, he is not identical to, i.e. the same person as, the Father yet they are still one God; hence the idea of the “plurality of the godhead.” HUH!?!
    2A person who practices ditheism (noun) which is: 1. the doctrine of or belief in two equally powerful gods or deities. 2. belief in the existence of two independent antagonistic principles, one good and the other evil, as in Zoroastrianism. Ditheist do not believe in the trinity, because they do not recognize the holy spirit to be a member of the “godhead.” Yet, they still believe that Yeshua (jesus) existed in some form or another as a member of “the godhead” before his birth. This is known historically as Arianism or a form of it. Groups such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, IOG (Israel of God) and the AOY (Assemblies Of Yahweh) hold to this doctrine.
    3
    Review The Matter”). The only ones present were the b’nai elohim/sons of God (celestrial beings/angels) after they were created (Job 38:4-8).
    Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
    2 Samuel 7:22 “For this reason You are great, O Adonai YHWH; for there is none like You, and there is no Elohim but You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
    2 Kings 19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before YHWH, and said, O YHWH, Elohim of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the Elohim, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
    Psalm 86:9-11 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Adonai; and shall glorify thy name. 10For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art Elohim alone. 11Teach me thy way, O YHWH; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
    Jer 10:10
    Nowhere in the Tanakh will a doctrine being taught that YHWH is three persons, beings or entities! Neither will you see it taught that YHWH had a co-ruler or co-creator with Him. Yeshua and the apostles confirm that
    YHWH is the only true Elohim as taught in the Tanakh! But YHWH is the true Elohim; He is the living El and the everlasting King At His wrath the earth quakes, And the nations cannot endure His indignation
    Mark 12:29
    Yeshua identified his/our Elohim YHWH as being one not two or three! Yeshua answered, “The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one;
    John 17:1,3 Yeshua spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father…3
    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one Elohim, and one mediator between Elohim and men, the man Christ Jesus; “This is eternal life, that they may know You (the Father), the only true God (elohim/power), and Yeshua the Anointed whom You have sent.
    James 2:19
    1 Corinthians 8:5-6 “even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, You believe that Elohim is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
    6
    The Father alone is the true Elohim/God and His name is YHWH! (see “Hebraic Usage Of God”). There is no room for a trinity, bi-entity or two gods in the Tanakh! As we saw, no one aided YHWH the Father in creation nor was there another god/elohim by His side. Scripture cannot be broken! Let’s go back to John 1:1-2. yet for us there is but one Elohim, the Father…”
    John 1:1-2 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
    4
    Trinitarians and ditheist see this verse as proof that Yeshua indeed preexisted as God and was with God (YHWH) as a part of a “godhead,” However this verses does not say:
    John 1:1-2 1In the beginning was the Son/Yeshua, and the Son/Yeshua was with God/YHWH, and the Son/Yeshua was God/YHWH. 2
    Yet these groups want us to believe this is the case. They say since the word “word” is capitalized and in the following verses “he” is used that it is a person. Furthermore, they state that he had a hand in creating based on John 1:2-3. How can this be, in light of what the Tanakh says? These presuppositions are read into the text. Let’s see what’s really going on. The same was in the beginning with God/YHWH.
    εν
    αρχη
    ην
    `ο
    λογος
    και
    `ο
    λογος
    en
    arche
    en
    ho
    logos
    kai
    ho
    logos
    in
    the beginning
    was
    the
    word
    and
    the
    word
    1722
    746
    1510
    01
    3056
    2532
    01
    3056
    ην
    προς
    τον
    θεον
    και
    θεος
    ην
    `ο
    λογος
    en
    pros
    ton
    theon
    kai
    theos
    en
    ho
    logos
    was
    toward
    the
    God
    and
    God
    was
    the
    word
    1510
    4314
    04
    2316
    2532
    2316
    1510
    01
    3056
    This verse is taken from Paul R. McReynolds’ “Word Study Greek-English New Testament w/Complete Concordance” Bible. As you can see, it’s keyed up with the Strong’s Concordance. The word “word” is translated from the Greek word “logos.” It has been said that the word logos means spokesperson or mouthpiece by those who promote a preexistent Messiah. What does “logos” mean? According to the Greek Lexicon to the New Testament “logos” means…
    Strong's #3056 logos λογος log'-os
    1. of speech
    a. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
    b. what someone has said
    1. a word
    2. the sayings of God
    3. decree, mandate or order
    4. of the moral precepts given by God
    5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
    6. what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
    c. discourse
    1. the act of speaking, speech
    2. the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
    3. a kind or style of speaking
    5
    4. a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
    d. doctrine, teaching
    e. anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
    f. matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
    g. the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
    2. its use as respect to the MIND alone
    a. reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
    b. account, i.e. regard, consideration
    c. account, i.e. reckoning, score
    d. account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
    e. relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
    1. reason would
    f. reason, cause, ground
    Logos – from the Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek Lexicon:
    • Logos; logos, ho: (A) the word or that by which the inward thought is expressed (Latin: oratio), and, (B) the inward thought itself (Latin: ratio.)
    • Latin: vox, oratio, that which is said or spoken.
    • Latin: ratio, thought, reason.
    • Ho LOGOS, the Logos or Word, comprising both senses of Thought and Word. (New Testament.)
    Logos is translated a variety of ways in the King James Version a total of 330 times:
    word 225, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, thing 5, not translated 2, miscellaneous 32
    As you can see, the word “logos” in so many words means “the outward expression of thought,” a “saying or speech” hence “word.” It appears over 300 times in the Apostolic Writings and is only capitalized (wrongly) as a person in John 1. The capital is an editorial addition of translators. This word “logos” was used in the Septuagint (LXX – the Greek translation of the Tanakh done by Israelites around 200 BCE) as a translation for the word “dabar” some 1500 times. It never describes a literal person. This is important because, in order to have a proper understanding of the word logos we must first have a proper understanding of the word dabar; the Hebrew word for which logos was based on. Remember Yochanan was a Hebrew and wrote from a Hebraic perspective, NOT Greek! Let’s look at the meaning of dabar (modern Heb. devar). The Hebrew Lexicon to the Old Testament states the following.
    Strong’s #H1697 dabar rbd daw-baw'
    1. speech, word, speaking, thing
    a. speech
    b. saying, utterance
    c. word, words
    d. business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)
    The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary defines “dabar” as such.
    6
    “Dabar is the primary Hebrew expression for “word.” It has various meanings and can refer to a spoken utterance, a saying, a command, a speech, or a story—linguistic communication in general. 3
    Dabar is translated a variety of ways in the King James Version a total of 1439 times:
    word 807, thing 231, matter 63, acts 51, chronicles 38, saying 25, commandment 20, miscellaneous 204
    Based on the definitions given, the basic Hebraic meaning of “dabar” is “the express communication of thoughts into words.” For example the phrase “the word (dabar) of YAH” simply means “the expressed thoughts, oracles or commands of YAH.” Scriptural examples:
    Gen 15:1 After these things (dabar) the word (dabar) of YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
    In this verse dabar is translated things and word.
    Ex 34:28 And he was there with YHWH forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words (dabar) of the covenant, the ten commandments (dabar).
    In this verse dabar is translated as commandments and words. This also shows that YAH’s words and commandments are synonymous (Ps 103:20, Ps 119:172). YAH’s dabar (or logos) in Greek is His expressed thoughts, spoken word or command! The verification of this is very simple. Please refer to any good English Dictionary. Under the word 'Decalogue' you will find the meaning; “The Ten Commandments”, (deka = ten; logous = commands). The dictionary also translates the word 'Logos' as “discourse, reason, (rarely) word”.
    Since the “word” i
    s the spoken thoughts or commands of YHWH it could not be a second member of the “godhead.” So what about the phrase ³και θεος ην `ο λογος (kai theos en ho logos)” translated “the word was god” or “god was the word?” Based on the grammar of the Greek, Yochanan is not trying to say the word is “God (YHWH).” John uses ho theos when speaking about the one true God YHWH but here the definite article “ho (the)” is missing. It’s not present because here “theos” is considered a predicate or adjective of the preceding subject. Theos is used to describe the nature, quality, attribute or property of the subject which is the “word.” In this instance the One true Elohim's spoken command or thoughts is divine, powerful or mighty. A more literal translation would read:
    In the beginning was the word (spoken thoughts/command), and the word (spoken thoughts/command) was with Elohim, and the word (spoken thoughts/command) was divine/powerful/mighty.
    This translation is based upon the usage of the Greek grammar and structure and the Hebraic understanding. There are translations that do not follow the traditional Trinitarian influence! Some examples are:
    Bible – James Moffatt Translation, The: “The Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.”
    3 The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary, pg. 1682.
    7
    Complete Bible – An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), The: “In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.
    Authentic New Testament, The: “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. So the Word was divine.”
    Scriptures (ISR), The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim
    .”
    Theos is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word “elohim.” Elohim is a Hebrew word that can be used as a noun, adjective or predicate. For example:
    Genesis 30:8 So Rachel said, “With mighty (Heb. elohim) wrestlings I have wrestled with my sister, and I have indeed prevailed.” And she named him Naphtali.
    1 Samuel 14:15 And there was a trembling in the camp, in the field, and among all the people. Even the garrison and the raiders trembled, and the earth quaked so that it became a great (Heb. elohim) trembling.
    Genesis 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty (Heb. elohim) prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead.
    For more on this subject see “The Hebraic Usage Of God.” The Most High’s word was with Him in the beginning the same way his wisdom was with Him.
    Proverbs 8:1 “Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? 2On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; 3Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out…22″YHWH possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23″From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24″When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25″Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 26While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27″When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; 30
    Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,”
    Now if you noticed wisdom is depicted as a woman separate from YHWH and said to be with Him. Oddly no one argues that wisdom was a member of a godhead. Why not? Because students of the bible recognize that wisdom is simply an attribute of YHWH being personified. Remember YHWH said…
    Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
    Isaiah 43:10
    “You are My witnesses,” declares YHWH,” And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
    8
    Now you might be saying, but John/Yochanan used “He” when referring to the “logos (word)” in John 1:2-4. Again, the Greek word logos is a something not a someone. Let’s look at John 1:2-5 and see what it says.
    John 1:2 The same (outou – 3778) was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him (autou – 846); and without him (autou – 846) was not any thing made that was made. 4In him (autw – 846) was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
    There are two Greek words in this sentence that are very important. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it (auto – 846) not. (KJV)
    3778. houtos outoj hoo'-tos from the article 3588 and 846; 1) this, these, etc.
    846 autos
    autoj ow-tos' 1) himself, herself, themselves, itself 2) he, she, it 3) the same.
    Now if you will notice, Yochanan (John) uses the Greek word autos 4 times in these set of verses. It is translated 3 times as “him” and 1 time as “it.” Now, ask yourself, why did translators translate autos “he” then turn around and translate it as “it” if they’re still talking about the same “word” in verse 5? Based on the word “autos” is speaking of determines how it should be translated. Since we already know that “logos” is a something and NOT a someone, “autos” should have been translated “it” in all 4 occurrences. So actually this verse should read…
    John 1:3 All things were made by it (autou – 846); and without it (autou – 846) was not any thing made that was made. 4In it (autw – 846) was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
    This translation is HISTORICALLY how this verse was originally translated in the earlier English Bibles before the KJV. William Tyndale gave us our first English translation based upon the Hebrew and Greek (not the Latin Vulgate). His New Testament was published in 1526 and revised to its final state in 1534. Tyndale's translation of John 1:3-4 reads: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it (auto – 846) not.
    John 1:3,4 – All things were made by it, and without it, was made nothing that was made. In it
    As you can see, Tyndale used ” was life, and the life was the light of men.
    it
    John 1:3-4 All things were made by ” instead of “him.” He understood that the word or logos is an it and not a him. In 1537, John Rogers, using the pseudonym “Thomas Matthew,” published a translation known as Matthew's Bible. He uses “it” in John 1:3-4. The Great Bible followed in 1539 and it uses “it” instead of “him.” The Geneva Bible of 1560 uses “it” instead of “him.” The actual verses in the Geneva Bible read as such:
    it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it
    Another translation that doesn’t follow the traditional Catholic/Christianity trinity bias translations is the Emphatic Diaglott (translated in 1865 by B.F. Wilson). It reads: was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. (The Geneva Bible)
    9
    John 1:1 In the Beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with GOD, and the Logos was God. 2This was in the Beginning with GOD. 3Through it every thing was done; and without it not even one thing was done, which has been done. 4In it was Life; and the LIFE WAS the LIGHT of MEN. 5
    This is one of the better translations of these verses I’ve read. Plus, based on the whole of the Scriptures, this is the most accurate. Remember, line upon line, precept upon precept. Let’s see how this translation lines up with the Tanakh.
    And the LIGHT shone in DARKNESS; and the DARKNESS apprehended It not.
    So what is Yochanan telling us in these verses? When one remembers the definition of dabar and logos, you can easily see how the “word (thoughts expressed verbally or and outward expression of inward thoughts and reason; a command) can be in the beginning; just as wisdom was in the beginning (Prov 8:22-31). One author (identity unknown) wrote…
    “Similar language is found in Proverbs chapter eight where wisdom is personified as a woman. In fact, wisdom is personified as a woman throughout the opening chapters of Proverbs. However, in this particular place there is a definite parallel expression of idea with that contained in Genesis one and John one for in verse 22 we have the following: “YHWH possessed (or created as the Hebrew word primarily means — see Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #7069.) me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old.” Note the phrase “in the beginning!” Now read verses 23-36 noting verse 30 and comparing this with John 1:1-2. Throughout these verses wisdom is talking as a woman existing separately from and throughout the same time period as YHWH. However, it is quite obvious that this must be figurative language representing YHWH’s wisdom itself and not really a separate being. Of course, maybe we should adopt the theory that there are really four persons in the godhead instead of three and that the fourth one is a woman named Wisdom! By the way, did you pay particular attention to verse 30 as was directed above? It says,
    ‘Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before Him;’”
    YHWH’s word and wisdom are attributes of His that was with Him and is Him. His word is powerful, divine and mighty because it is His word. Plain & simple! Now let’s look at John 1:3.
    John 1:3 – All things were made by it, and without it
    How did YAH create the universe? Again, we must go to the Hebrew Scriptures for the answer to this question. , was made nothing that was made.
    Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of YHWH: for He commanded, and they were created.
    This verse tells us that YAH command the universe to come into existence. To command means to give the word or charge.
    Psalm 33:6 By the word (dabar) of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 33:9For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
    Again, YAH spake and used the words and breath of His mouth to create the universe. This can be verified by simply going back to the beginning.
    10
    Gen 1:3 And Elohim said, “Let there be light: and there was light.”
    This verse shows YAH creating by speaking or giving the command. And yes, this is YAH (see “Who Is The Creator?”). Throughout Genesis this is how YAH created the universe (Gen.1:3,6,9,11,14,20, and 24). All these passages began with the statement, “And Elohim said.” YHWH spoke and it was done. Even the writer of Hebrews confirms that YAH used His word to create the universe.
    Hebrews 11:3 By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God, so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena. (CJB)
    This understanding agrees perfectly with John 1:3. Remember “dabar” and “logos” means an outward expression of inward thoughts or reason. This is exactly what Proverbs tells us YAH used when He created.
    Prov 3:19 YHWH by wisdom (chokmah) hath founded the earth; by understanding (tabunah) hath he established the heavens.
    Finally…
    John 1:4 – In it
    This verse can be understood in light of verses like… (the logos/dabar/word) was life, and the life was the light of men.
    Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort and consolation in my affliction: that Your word (dabar) has revived me and given me life. (AMP)
    Psalm 119:107 I am sorely afflicted; renew and quicken me [give me life], O YHWH, according to Your word (dabar)! (AMP)
    Ps 119:105 NUN. Thy word (dabar) is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (KJV)
    Now notice something, John uses the same speech in his epistle when speaking about the word.
    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Yeshua Messiah. 4
    And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. (KJV)
    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Yeshua Messiah. 4
    And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete. (ESV)
    John is once again talking about the same word that was in the beginning with the Father in the intro of his second book/first epistle. Now oddly, no one ever uses these verse to argue a preexistant Yeshua (Jesus), why? Could it be, because here
    11
    translator properly translated the word as an it and a that instead of as a him even though in the KJV they still capitalize “word.”
    John 1:1-5 is talking about YHWH’s spoken word! To come to any other conclusion or understanding of John 1:1-5 will only cause contradictions and confusion. The Tanakh as well as the Apostolic Writings plainly tells us that YHWH the Father is the only true Elohim. It also states that He created the universe by Himself through His spoken word!
    Peace & Blessings
    Amar
    2/5/10

    April 11, 2012 at 10:58 pm#291671
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    The Word, Someone Or Something? Part II
    Continuing where we left off in the Book of Saint John, we will be picking up at verse 6. Before we get started again let‘s recap some info. First let‘s look at our historical information again. We discovered Yeshua‘s death, burial, resurrection and ascension is said to have occurred between 26 CE and 36 CE.
    We saw the book of john was said to have been written nearly 30 years after Matthew, Mark and Luke, somewhere between 70 and 96 CE by John one of the 12 disciples.
    We learned the purpose of John‘s evangel was to prove Yeshua is the Messiah and son of Elohim and not YHWH Elohim!
    John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Yeshua also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of Elohim; and that believing you may have life in His name. We saw that the word translated word is logos, from the Hebrew dabar, and that it means ―thoughts expressed verbally or an outward expression of inward thoughts and reason; a command.‖ Which shows the word is a something and not a someone. We learned that by this powerful word YHWH created the universe (John 1:3).
    Psalm 33:6 By the word of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 33:9For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
    Hebrews 11:3 By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God, so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena. (CJB) We also saw that YAH‘s word is our light and life for us (John 1:4).
    Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort and consolation in my affliction: that Your word (dabar) has revived me and given me life. (AMP)
    Ps 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (KJV)
    2
    This brings us up to speed. Remember all the info we just read will play an important key in understanding the verses we are about to go over. Please keep everything in mind! Now let‘s look at the next set of verses.
    6There came a man, sent from Elohim, whose name was John.
    Okay now John switches gears and starts to tell a story.
    7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.
    So we see that John is writing now about John the Baptist and him bearing witness to the light. The light that John was a witness to was Yeshua.
    8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.
    Now right here Trinitarians and the such will say ―see it states the world was created through Yeshua proving he is the Creator and God.‖ This interpretation is a direct contradiction to the whole of Scripture! The Scriptures teach that YHWH the Father is the sole Creator of everything that exist as we saw in part I. See ―Who Is The Creator?‖ for more details. So if YHWH is the Creator by Himself why does this verse say the world was made through him (in some versions it says ―made by him)? Translators of the new testament often translate the verses on preconceived ideas and traditions! Let‘s look at the word translated ―by‖ & ―through.‖ The Greek word is dia and it has several applications.
    1223. dia διά dee-ah' a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):–after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through(-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general importance. Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 646 AV — by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore + 5124 44, for this cause + 5124 14, because 52, misc 86
    As you can see I highlighted the word ―for‖ in the definition above. In the KJV ―dia‖ was translated ―for‖ 58 times. For example:
    Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for1223 my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
    Again the Greek word is used the same in Mark.
    Mark 2:27 Yeshua said to them, “The Sabbath was made for1223 man, and not man for1223 the Sabbath.
    To imply that Yeshua had a hand in creation would conflict with hundreds of scriptures that explicitly states that YHWH the Father is the sole Creator of everything! John 1:10 should read:
    10He was in the world, and the world was made for1223 him, and the world knew him not.
    Everything was centered around and done for the coming Messiah and Son of YHWH from the beginning. This is the proper understanding since Yeshua is said to be ―heir to all things (Heb 1:2).‖ Continuing on.
    3
    11He came unto his own (Israel), and they (Israel) that were his own received him not. 12But as many as received him (accepted him as the Messiah), to them gave he the right to become children of Elohim, even to them that believe on his name:
    All those who accepted Yeshua as the Messiah and came under his name he gave them access to become sons and daughters of YHWH.
    13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of Elohim.
    This verse is self explanatory.
    14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
    This verse along with John 1:1-5 is known as the ―Incarnation‖ in Christian theological circles. This is the highlight of Christology. So what is the incarnation? The Catholic Encyclopedia states:
    The Incarnation is the mystery and the dogma of the Word made Flesh. ln this technical sense the word incarnation was adopted, during the twelfth century, from the Norman-French, which in turn had taken the word over from the Latin incarnatio. The Latin Fathers, from the fourth century, make common use of the word; so Saints Jerome, Ambrose, Hilary, etc. The Latin incarnatio (in: caro, flesh) corresponds to the Greek sarkosis, or ensarkosis, which words depend on John (1:14) kai ho Logos sarx egeneto, “And the Word was made flesh”. These two terms were in use by the Greek Fathers from the time of St. Irenæus–i.e. according to Harnack, A.D. 181-189 (cf. Irenaeus, “Adv. Haer.” III, 19, n. i.; Migne, VII, 939). The verb sarkousthai, to be made flesh, occurs in the creed of the Council of Nicaea (cf. Denzinger, “Enchiridion”, n. 86).
    According to the catholic encyclopedia the incarnation is a mystery and dogma. Wonder why you never see this word in Scripture? Because it doesn‘t exist in the Scriptures, it is a made up word!
    ―The Incarnation of the Son of God is the terminology used to describe what happened when the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son of God, “became flesh” as he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary according to the Bible. In the incarnation, the divine nature of the Son was perfectly united with human nature in one divine Person. This person, Yeshua Christ, was both “truly God and truly man.” – Theopedia
    This is a doctrine of tradition and not of truth solidified by the council of Nicea (see ―The Evolution Of The Trinity Doctrine‖ & ―Does Yeshua Have Two Natures‖). As we established, YHWH‘s word is a something and not a someone. YHWH‘s word is His utterance of his inner thoughts. It is his commandments! This is what became flesh or reality! Yeshua is the embodiment of YHWH‘s thoughts and commandments. He represents everything that YAH‘s word is. When the word became flesh only then did the word become a person.
    John 1:14 And the word (spoken thought/command/utterance) was made flesh, and dw
    elt among us… (KJV)
    Trinitarians and Ditheist want us to believe some spirit being named the Word (who is the second member of the godhead) came down from heaven jumped in the womb of Mary as a seed and then grew as a fetus and was finally born as a baby. You can‘t find that nowhere in prophecy! The Bible clearly shows Yeshua had a beginning. Yeshua‘s beginning was when he was conceived!
    4
    Luke 1:30 The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam; for you have found favor with Elohim. 31″And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Yeshua. 32″He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High;
    So we see here the word being given that Mary would have a son whose name would be Yeshua. Notice also, it states he will be called the Son of the Most High (future tense) not he is the Son of the Most High (present tense). Continuing…
    …and YAH Elohim will give Him the throne of His father Dawid;
    Here we see Yeshua‘s father is said to be David! (see ―Yeshua, The Son David‖)
    33and He will reign over the house of Ya‘acob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mariam said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The ruach qodesh will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of Elohim…
    Again, Yeshua shall be called the Son of Elohim (future tense)! Now watch what takes place.
    37″For nothing will be impossible with Elohim.” 38And Miryam said, “Behold, the bondslave of YAH; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
    Matthew confirms that this was Yeshua‘s beginning. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly.
    ―Now the beginning of Yeshua Messiah was in this manner.‖
    The Greek uses the word ―genesis (γένεζις)‖ Strong's #G1078 for the word ―beginning.‖ 1) source, origin a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated 2) used of birth, nativity 3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life a) the wheel of life (Jas 3:6), other explain it, the wheel of human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i.e. its course of life
    The word ―genesis (γένεζις)‖ means origin, source, beginning. This is the Greek word given to the first book of the Tanakh when it was translated into Greek (the Septuagint) in the 3rd century BCE. In Hebrew the book is called Bereshith, meaning ―beginning,” from the first word of the Hebrew text. Some translations use birth instead of beginning because birth sounds more appealing. ―Birth‖ is considered an acceptable translation of “genesis,” since the beginning of something is its birth. Nevertheless, the proper translation of genesis in Matthew 1:18 is ―beginning.‖
    With some ancient scribes this didn‘t sit well, so they tried to alter the text to say something different. they tried to alter the Greek text to read gennesis which simply means ―birth‖ and not ―beginning,‖ but they were unsuccessful.
    Even when you look up the word birth on the online strong‘s it gives you the incorrect word for the word translated birth. They give you gennesis.
    5
    1083. gennesis γέννηζις ghen'-nay-sis from 1080; nativity:–birth.
    This is not what the original Greek text had or has. The unmodified Greek texts all read ―beginning‖ (genesis) in Matthew 1:18. In case you need proof, here it is.
    This is from ―The Interlinear NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament In Greek & English.‖
    This is from the ―Word Study Greek-English New Testament with Complete Concordance.‖ Notice this one has the literal translation as origin for the word genesis.
    This is from ―The Emphatic Diaglott Containing The Original Greek Text Of The New Testament.‖
    Yeshua‘s genesis is when he was conceived in the womb! Many read Rev 19:13 and 1 john 5:7-8 into John 1:1-14 but Yeshua will not go by the name ―Word of Elohim‖ until his return. And 1 John 5:7-8 has added words that were not in the original text! Revelation 19:12-14 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of Elohim. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
    When John 1:1-5,14 is understood in a TRUE Hebraic way, only then do these verses line up with what the Tanakh (Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament) has already established. NOWHERE in the Script does it say that YAH will become flesh or some
    6
    spirit being named the Word. The Scriptures always speak of the coming Messiah and Servant of YAH to do His will and redeem man back to Him.
    14…(and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
    When did Yeshua have glory and when was he begotten from the Father? Rememeber this evangel was written almost 60 years after the resurrection of the Messiah. Yeshua received glory and was begotten of the Father after his death burial and resurrection (Luke 24:26, Rev 5:11-13, Rom 1:1-4). (see ―The Glory Of Messiah‖ and ―Born Again‖). The reason John could say he beheld his glory was because he saw Yeshua after his resurrection in his new glorified body. John could speak in the past tense because this evangel is 60 years later. Yeshua did not have any glory before his death, burial and resurrection.
    15John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me.
    This verse is sometimes used to prove that Yeshua preexisted. The way this verse reads you would think Yeshua existed before John but this is not possible. Yeshua was born 6 months later. Now Trinitarians will say, ―well John is talking about his preexistence.‖ The word translated “before” is from the Greek “protos (prwtoj)” Strong‘s #G4413.
    1) first in time or place a) in any succession of things or persons 2) first in rank a) influence, honour b) chief c) principal 3) first, at the first
    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 104 AV — first 84, chief 9, first day 2, former 2, misc 7
    Of the 104 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as Chief or something similar! Let‘s look at some other translations of this verse. The Emphatic Diaglott states:
    John 1:15 John testifies concerning him, and cried, saying, ―This is he of whom I said, ‗He who comes after me is in advance of me; for he is my Superior.‘‖
    John telling us that Yeshua is higher in rank than him! Here‘s another example. Rotherham‘s Emphasized Bible states:
    John 1:15 John beareth witness concerning him, and hath cried aloud, saying–the same was he that said– He who after me was coming before me hath advanced; because my Chief was he.
    Now let‘s look at the literal Greek text and see what it says. ―Word Study Greek-English New Testament with Complete Concordance‖ states:
    John 1:15 John testifies concerning him, and has shouted, saying, This was whom I said, ‗the one after me coming in front of me has become; because first of me he was.
    The ―Interlinear NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament In Greek & English‖ states:
    7
    John 1:15 John witnesses concerning him, and has cried out, saying: this man was he whom i said: The one after me was coming before me has become; because first of me was he.
    John is simply telling the people that Yeshua is greater than him. This applies to verse 30 as well. To
    verify this just read verses 24 through 34. Some bible versions even go as far as to purposely mistranslate this verse. For example: John 1:15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'” (NASB)
    What does Yeshua existing before John have to do with rank? For example, in the military or government ones‘ life span does not determine their rank! Trinitarians and traditionalist translators had a good ole time making these verses fit their doctrinal beliefs. instead of giving us the literal translation of these verses that lines up with the Tanakh they choose to follow tradition. Getting back on track
    16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Yeshua Messiah.
    Yeshua is now our grace.
    18No man hath seen God at any time…
    Stop! Now this is around the year 70 CE or so, decades after Yeshua, and John just declared that no man has ever seen Elohim. Now how could this be if Yeshua is Elohim (in the flesh) – he was seen by hundreds or even thousands? Trinitarians and other such polytheistic groups will say they say saw the flesh but the god part was inside him. But these same groups say that he was 100% god and 100% man; that means every fiber of his being is both god and man. To say well his inside was god and his outside was man contradicts their own 100% god and 100% man doctrine!
    Others will say when he came to earth he gave up his godhood and was just a man then later became god again. This contradicts the Tanakh in so many ways! Neither answer can be found in the scriptures without having contradictions all over the place.
    …the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (American Standard Version)
    Some use this verse to prove Yeshua preexisted. One problem, this verse is speaking of the present (which at the time was about 70 CE or so). Yeshua, at the time this evangel was written, had long declared the Father (somewhere between 27 CE to 36 CE) to Israel and ascended to His right side. The verse says ―who is (present tense) in the bosom of the Father‖ not ―was in the bosom of the Father!‖ By the time this letter was written and circulated the Messiah had long come and gone.
    Preexistent proponents rarely ever refer to the Tanakh to prove their doctrine. Why? Because there is virtually no support to be found in the Tanakh without the twisting of Scripture. They cling to a handful of verses that they must rip completely out of context and at the same time violate the rules of grammar for the Hebrew language to make it fit their doctrine of preexistence.
    In the Apostolic Writings there is no hint of a pre-existent Messiah unless you do even more twisting of verses! THE SYNOPTIC GOSPELS AND ACTS (BOOKS SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN ABOUT THE LIFE OF YESHUA) MAKE NO MENTION OF PRE-HUMAN EXISTENCE OF THE MESSIAH!
    8
    Let‘s look Luke's introductory to his Gospel.
    Luke 1:3,4 “I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order to you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.‖
    Luke‘s traces ―all things from the start with accuracy‖ yet there is no mention throughout this gospel of Yeshua having existed in another form prior to his birth. If such an idea were true, then from his own words, Luke would not have left out this vital information for Theophilus to 'know fully'. Luke firmly puts the coming into existence of Yeshua as being at the time of his conception in Mary‘s womb. This is not a coming into only human existence that is spoken of in Luke, but of actual existence.
    The gospel of Matthew similarly gives no hint of a pre-human existence for Yeshua. It too explains Yeshua‘ conception as his time of coming into existence. Even using the word ―genesis‖ to described his conception as his beginning.
    The Gospel of Mark does not deal with the events surrounding Yeshua‘ birth but makes its start with the events concerning the baptism of Yeshua. However, a thorough examination of this entire gospel reveals no hint of a pre-human existence for Yeshua.
    The same applies to the book of Acts. They give sermons all throughout this recorded history book touching on everything concerning the Way yet no mention of Yeshua‘s preexistence is found! Let‘s look at what some scholars have to say on this matter.
    Matthew and Luke “show no knowledge of Yeshua' pre-existence; seemingly for them the conception was the becoming (begetting) of God's Son” – Raymond Brown, America's leading Catholic theologian.
    “The idea of pre-existence lies completely outside the Synoptic sphere of view” – F.C. Baur, Most distinguished Greek scholar.
    “there is not a single reference in the Synoptic Gospels to Yeshua having been the Son of God before his birth.” – Professor William Sanday of Oxford.
    It is only in the book of John where Trinitarian, Ditheist, and those who profess Yeshua had a preexistence try to draw proof. It is a serious imposition on the evangel of John to understand him to teach of a different Messiah than Matthew, Mark and Luke — one who is really an angel or Elohim, a spirit being or YHWH Himself appearing as a man. Such a non-human Messiah is foreign not only to the rest of the Apostolic writings (NT), but to the whole revelation of Elohim in the Tanakh (OT) in regard to his description of the coming Messiah. Deuteronomy 18 expressly says the Messiah is to arise from a family in Israel. All Israelites who looked forward to the Messiah expected a human person, not an angel, much less Elohim Himself! Though the Israelites had not understood that the Messiah was to be born supernaturally, even this miraculous begetting was in fact predicted. A “pre-human” Messiah, however, is nowhere suggested.
    But even the Evangel of John has no proof of a preexistent Messiah when properly studied from a Hebraic mindset. As shown before, John wrote his gospel to prove Yeshua is the Messiah and Son of Elohim!!! Here‘s John 1:1-18 from the first English Bible translated directly from the languages of the Scriptures.
    John 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4In it was lyfe and
    9
    the lyfe was ye lyght of men 5and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.
    6There was a man sent from God whose name was Iohn. 7The same cam as a witnes to beare witnes of the lyght that all men through him myght beleve. 8He was not that lyght: but to beare witnes of the lyght. 9That was a true lyght which lyghteth all men that come into the worlde. 10He was in ye worlde and the worlde was made by him: and yet the worlde knewe him not. 11He cam amonge his (awne) and his awne receaved him not. 12But as meny as receaved him to them he gave power to be the sonnes of God in yt they beleved on his name: 13which were borne not of bloude nor of the will of the flesshe nor yet of the will of man: but of God.
    14And the worde was made flesshe and dwelt amonge vs and we sawe the glory of it as the glory of the only begotten sonne of ye father which worde was full of grace and verite. 15Iohn bare witnes of him and cryed sayinge: This was he of whome I spake he that cometh after me was before me because he was yer then I. 16And of his fulnes have all we receaved even (grace) for grace. 17For the lawe was geven by Moses but grace and truthe came by Iesus Christ. 18No ma hath sene God at eny tyme. The only begotte sonne which is in ye bosome of ye father he hath declared him.
    Peace & Blessings
    Amar
    Updated 11/13/10

    April 11, 2012 at 11:07 pm#291673
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    To ALL,

    You people need to stop going around in this deceptive circle of simply being short with each other with personal attacks on each other and get down to some serious studying:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf

    April 11, 2012 at 11:07 pm#291674
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING

    April 11, 2012 at 11:11 pm#291676
    charity
    Participant

    John is Translated from Greek (ROMAN) text?

    April 11, 2012 at 11:12 pm#291677
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi FRank,
    The Word was of the Spirit and only became flesh in Jesus at the Jordan making him Jesus Christ, the Word.

    April 11, 2012 at 11:17 pm#291680
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf

    April 11, 2012 at 11:20 pm#291683
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:12)
    Hi FRank,
    The Word was of the Spirit and only became flesh in Jesus at the Jordan making him Jesus Christ, the Word.


    Nick,

    Father Yahweh's word was revealed in the flesh long before Yahshua came on the scene. Remember that Yahshua is the prophet like unto Moshe.

    April 11, 2012 at 11:33 pm#291688
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old. makes him to much Like us! dis-appointed

    jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Romans while the others were hunted an killed.

    Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology instead of in the Nature of Ignorance…an greed to keep the land from being taken back from the Romans by the original Nations

    April 11, 2012 at 11:39 pm#291689
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,10:33)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old.

    jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Roman while the others were hunted an killed..

    Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology.


    charity,

    And you still rant on in silly banter?

    April 11, 2012 at 11:43 pm#291691
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:39)

    Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,10:33)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old.

    jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Roman while the others were hunted an killed..

    Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology.


    charity,

    And you still rant on in silly banter?


    Yep.. an loving the gift of Life to!!  :D am I getting in your Way?

    April 11, 2012 at 11:46 pm#291692
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf


    Hi Frank,
    You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?

    April 12, 2012 at 12:01 am#291698
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf


    Hi Frank,
    You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?


    Nick,

    And you still rant on in silly banter?

    April 12, 2012 at 12:03 am#291699
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf


    Hi Frank,
    You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?


    smile Jesus died because everyone thought themselves the expert…honourable without rude interruptions.

    April 12, 2012 at 12:06 am#291700
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,11:01)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf


    Hi Frank,
    You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?


    Nick,

    And you still rant on in silly banter?


    Where are you from?

    Were the rule is …when losing always START correctING THEIR GRAMMA!

    Bit Like what happen to the bible…

    April 12, 2012 at 12:11 am#291702
    jammin
    Participant

    frank,

    where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL

    nick,

    where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL

    April 12, 2012 at 1:08 am#291715
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ April 12 2012,11:11)
    frank,

    where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL

    nick,

    where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL


    jammin,

    I am never proclaimed that Scripture says that the word in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is the Father. What I have simply proclaimed is what Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word teaches, and that is that His word is simply that, His word. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach or say that Father Yahweh's word was a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning that was a creator or a co-creator with Him. Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, in this same section of Scripture Yahshua credited his and our Father Yahweh for the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    April 12, 2012 at 1:12 am#291716
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,11:06)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,11:01)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)
    Hi FRank,
    John focusses on the more important ANOINTING


    Nick,

    Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

    Understanding John 1:1 Part I
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

    Understanding John 1:1 Part II
    http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf


    Hi Frank,
    You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?


    Nick,

    And you still rant on in silly banter?


    Where are you from?

    Were the rule is …when losing always START correctING THEIR GRAMMA!

    Bit Like what happen to the bible…


    charity,

    To whose “GRAMMA” are you referring? My gramma and granpa are dead and gone! :D

    April 12, 2012 at 1:49 am#291724
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,12:08)

    Quote (jammin @ April 12 2012,11:11)
    frank,

    where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL

    nick,

    where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL


    jammin,

    I am never proclaimed that Scripture says that the word in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is the Father. What I have simply proclaimed is what Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word teaches, and that is that His word is simply that, His word. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach or say that Father Yahweh's word was a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning that was a creator or a co-creator with Him. Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, in this same section of Scripture Yahshua credited his and our Father Yahweh for the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?


    Yes FRank,
    It is the Spirit of God that creates.[ps 104]

    April 12, 2012 at 1:53 am#291728
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,12:49)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,12:08)

    Quote (jammin @ April 12 2012,11:11)
    frank,

    where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL

    nick,

    where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL


    jammin,

    I am never proclaimed that Scripture says that the word in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is the Father. What I have simply proclaimed is what Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word teaches, and that is that His word is simply that, His word. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach or say that Father Yahweh's word was a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning that was a creator or a co-creator with Him. Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, in this same section of Scripture Yahshua credited his and our Father Yahweh for the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?


    Yes FRank,
    It is the Spirit of God that creates.[ps 104]


    Nick,

    You should know by now that I would agree with what you just said, right? :;):

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