Worship God the Father only?

[mikeangel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2010,12:06)

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 01 2010,11:45) Even Jesus did not 'go to paradise THIS DAY' but went into the grave for THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS. And was further more on earth for many days before going back to heaven, Yeah JA, My first response to Mark was that Jesus didn't even go to paradise until 43 days after he said this. But then Keith posted his “experts”, and around and around we go. mike

What perplexes me is how some claim to know exactly what and where and why everything is just on a few scriptures. do you think in a nanosecond Jesus could do anything he wanted? In sprit he could have been anywhere before he was raised. He could have shot across 8 Galaxys and Universesand went to hell and back and still had time to spare for all we know. Nobody knows for sure, but God.

[mikeangel]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 01 2010,11:45)

Mike, It is quite simple… Since the theif still needs to be judged, he could not have gone to paradise 'that day'. The first resurrection sees therising of those who will be in Heaven. The second rising will b those who are judged. Jesus is saying to the thief that all his sins will be forgiven but he will still will not be part of the heavenly host but in the new creation on earth in Paradise, as per God's original plan that must be fulfilled. Even Jesus did not 'go to paradise THIS DAY' but went into the grave for THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS. And was further more on earth for many days before going back to heaven, although he did briefly present himself to God before that. [new] Paradise is on earth…it won't come in until after he hands power back to his Father. Simply language and Scriptural logic. The first way makes no logical sense nor palitable reasoning.

But, repenting on the cross, and giving God glory right before he died, who's to say? Today is possible, for anything is possible with God.Peace

[JustAskin]

Mike,
Please don't start any foolishness and get me going… Just agree, you know you want to.

Ok, take it down this way:
The thief will be in the grave until he is resurrected.
In the grave he will know nothing (only his soul is in the grave, his Spirit is with God)

When he is resurrected, Jesus, and his brothers if the begotten class, will judge him and find him guiltless and 'in that day he will be in Paradise'.
But here is the thing…for him, this will be as though it were the same day. Why? Because…he died 'today', knew nothing, then 'woke' as if on the same day (The NIGHTTime then the DAYTime constitutes a day by Jewish reckoning) to him he slept and woke 'in the same day'.
('…we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye…')

And, to Mark …Scriptures tells us Jesus being in the grave was like Jonah in the belly of the big fish. Did Jonah go off somewhere else? Why did Jesus tell us that fractal analogy?…just because it had 'three nights and three days' in it? No…
Scriptures over and over again says that [after that time] Jesus was raised again by the Holy Spirit of God [adding that, 'by whom he also went to preach, in the spirit (Mike, Jesus going 'back in time…') to those in the time of Noah (who did not have the law, nor know the law and were therefore innocent of the law…therefore now they are not innocent…if they still did not repent)]

[mikeangel]

That makes sense to me. I don't want to start foolishness. I get perplexed though when someone on here claims to know everything, and in reality we know very little. I believe scripture. I believe there is more to it than we know. The people who have declared things to be true and this and that may find out there is more to it then they could know, but one day we will. Your anology of today seemed to make sense.  What did it mean when after jesus died when the saints arose and appeared to many? Was there an exception to them not waiting until Judgement day because they were saints? Just Questions, not confrontation.

Matthew 27:51  “Suddenly the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked,boulders split, tombs opened. Many bodies of saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus' resurrection they came forth from their tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.”

I will say, until I looked into this I did not realise that  it wasn't until he was ressurected that they appeared. Would it be possible that he was one of them, after 3.5 days? That would fit what you said. He went to sleep and woke up, seemingly”today” Peace-Mark

[mikeangel]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,15:04)

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 01 2010,21:42) Group: Regular Members Posts: 910 Joined: Aug. 2010  Posted: Oct. 29 2010,09:52   ——————————————————————————– Mark!  I just read the post you made to shimmer.  That is another problem. Addicting in this Country is running wild.  And who knows when you give them Money what they do with it.  My guess is buy more drugs. We have good programs to help those that are in need.  Nobody should go hungry….I seen some on the highways young men, asking for money.  And then I see signs at Mic. Donald's “Help Wanted.”  So why can't they work?  What they don't want to is  the wages they get at such places… Yet the Mexicans have a Job…….They will work…….. We help Family and that is what is more important then to give to those that are lazy……..Peace and Love Irene   Back to top Recognise this Irene? Mark are you help people to get lazy? are you like to be in charge so people can depend on you ?? or do you help them to fish ? or do you tell others how they should help others and so think that there contribution will be a part of your?? what is your view Pierre

Jesus said to give to those who beg from you. He didn't say they always deserved it. they will be judged for asking for it, and you will be judged for not giving it in your self-rightiousness. What if someone is on drugs? So what. What if they were tossed out of a mental hospital for budget cuts, and have nowhere to go, and cannot deal. Maybe thier Dads beat and abused them and sexually assalted them every day. Are you God? Do you know if they deserve it? I will give, you do what you want.

[mikeangel]

I do teach others to fish. I have a lead furnace and make my own lures. I can make colors that you can't buy in the stores. Sometimes I catch fish when others are not. I would like to teach anyone who wants to how to fish. I Love it. Someday I would like to fish in a frozen lake, it's the only way I haven't fished yet.:)

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2010,19:24)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2010,05:08) Hi Mike Actually that is the correct translation found in every major translation on BlueletterBible.org. It is the NWT that once again corrupts the meaning of the text. Hi Keith, So then Jesus took this sinner to Hades with him?  And Hades is “paradise”? Be smart Keith.  Here's the actual Greek words: and he said amen to you i am saying today with me you will be in the paradise Now you must be smart enough to realize that it could mean: 1.  You will be with me in paradise today. 2.  I tell you today, that you will [some day] be with me in paradise. How do we know which meaning is meant Keith?  Oh yeah.  Jesus didn't go to paradise that day, did he? Come on man………too easy. mike

Mike

Did you even look at the definition of “Paradise”?

Did you even check what the Hebrews believed as far as “Paradise” and the place of the dead?

Once again you side with the “Non” scholarly translation, the corrupt “NWT” and their false doctrines.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 02 2010,05:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,15:04) Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 01 2010,21:42) Group: Regular Members Posts: 910 Joined: Aug. 2010  Posted: Oct. 29 2010,09:52   ——————————————————————————– Mark!  I just read the post you made to shimmer.  That is another problem. Addicting in this Country is running wild.  And who knows when you give them Money what they do with it.  My guess is buy more drugs. We have good programs to help those that are in need.  Nobody should go hungry….I seen some on the highways young men, asking for money.  And then I see signs at Mic. Donald's “Help Wanted.”  So why can't they work?  What they don't want to is  the wages they get at such places… Yet the Mexicans have a Job…….They will work…….. We help Family and that is what is more important then to give to those that are lazy……..Peace and Love Irene   Back to top Recognise this Irene? Mark are you help people to get lazy? are you like to be in charge so people can depend on you ?? or do you help them to fish ? or do you tell others how they should help others and so think that there contribution will be a part of your?? what is your view Pierre Jesus said to give to those who beg from you. He didn't say they always deserved it. they will be judged for asking for it, and you will be judged for not giving it in your self-rightiousness. What if someone is on drugs? So what. What if they were tossed out of a mental hospital for budget cuts, and have nowhere to go, and cannot deal. Maybe thier Dads beat and abused them and sexually assalted them every day. Are you God? Do you know if they deserve it? I will give, you do what you want.

Mark

you do not see ,the beggars in Israel were people with physical problems,read scriptures,blind,lamp,paralysed,leprosy,the reason of begging was obvious,

today you have people ,young,good health,nothing wrong with them,and they are begging because they are lazy.

and if you are supporting them by given them your financial support ,then you are part taking in they wicket ways,you can not turn a blind eye ,and say it is there problem,

scriptures tells us not to participate,in the laziness of others,

Paul says if you do not want to support yourself by working then you should not eat aswell.

most if of the beggars want to be on the street ,Government have done many things to take them off the streets,we have taxes to cover those procedures but they refuse the help,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 02 2010,05:25)

I do teach others to fish. I have a lead furnace and make my own lures. I can make colors that you can't buy in the stores. Sometimes I catch fish when others are not. I would like to teach anyone who wants to how to fish. I Love it. Someday I would like to fish in a frozen lake, it's the only way I haven't fished yet.:)

Mark

i was not talking about fishing but about how to teach someone to work is way off of begging.

pierre

[mikeangel]

“There are those who say to the poor that they seem to look to be in such good health: “You are so lazy! You could work. You are young. You have strong arms.”

You don’t know that it is God’s pleasure for this poor person to go to you and ask for a handout. You show yourself as speaking against the will of God.

There are some who say: “Oh, how badly he uses it!” May he do whatever he wants with it! The poor will be judged on the use they have made of their alms, and you will be judged on the very alms that you could have given but haven’t.”

St. John Vianney

I got that off of a search, I thought it was appropriate. If 2000 years ago it was written that it was the last hour, certainly these are the last minutes. “Due to the increase of evil, the love of most will grow cold. The man who holds out to the end will come through safe”. I know there are many out there who take advantage, and very aggressive professional panhandlers. I give them a little change and they look at me like a cow at a passing train, no thank you ar anything, and thats ok. I still think it follows what the gospel states. It is very hard sometimes, but not harder than forgiving your enemys or praying for them, earnestly. It is how I attempt to worship God. I still love them and you as well. Peace-Mark

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2010,02:22)

Mike Did you even look at the definition of “Paradise”? Did you even check what the Hebrews believed as far as “Paradise” and the place of the dead?

Hi Keith,

I have three simple questions for you.

1. Knowing the actual Greek words used, could it be translated either way? YES or NO.

2. Scripture cannot be broken. Solomon, the wisest man in the world in his time, said the dead are conscious of nothing. Do you believe?

3. Is the word “paradise” meaning a place where the “good dead people await the resurrection” a scriptural teaching, or a man-made one?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

“Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for the rest of his life.”

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2010,17:35)

“Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.  Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for the rest of his life.” mike

Mike
yeah

[shimmer]

Hi.

From the Earliest Church Writings, Sheppard of Hermas,

The piece on almsgiving is in the second paragraph of the 'second commandmment', but you should read the first pieces too…..

First Commandment
ON FAITH IN GOD.
FIRST Of all, believe that there is one God who created and finished all things, and made all things out of nothing. He alone is able to contain the whole, but Himself cannot be contained. Have faith therefore in Him, and fear Him; and fearing Him, exercise self-control. Keep these commands, and you will cast away from you all wickedness, and put on the strength of righteousness, and live to God, if you keep this commandment.

Second Commandment
ON AVOIDING EVIL-SPEAKING, AND ON GIVING ALMS IN SIMPLICITY.
He said to me, “Be simple and guileless, and you will be as the children who know not the wickedness that ruins the life of men. First, then, speak evil of no one, nor listen with pleasure to any one who speaks evil of another. But if you listen, you will partake of the sin of him who speaks evil, if you believe the slander which you hear; for believing it, you will also have something to say against your brother. Thus, then, will you be guilty of the sin of him who slanders. For slander is evil and an unsteady demon. It never abides in peace, but always remains in discord. Keep yourself from it, and you will always be at peace with all. Put on a holiness in which there is no wicked cause of offence, but all deeds that are equable and joyful.

Practise goodness; and from the rewards of your labours, which God gives you, give to all the needy in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom you are to give or not to give. Give to all, for God wishes His gifts to be shared amongst all. They who receive, will render an account to God why and for what they have received. For the afflicted who receive will not be condemned, but they who receive on false pretences will suffer punishment. He, then, who gives is guiltless. For as he received from the Lord, so has he accomplished his service in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom he should give and to whom he should not give. This service, then, if accomplished in simplicity, is glorious with God. He, therefore, who thus ministers in simplicity, will live to God. Keep therefore these commandments, as I have given them to you, that your repentance and the repentance of your house may be found in simplicity, and your heart may be pure and stainless.”

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 02 2010,17:27)

“There are those who say to the poor that they seem to look to be in such good health: “You are so lazy! You could work. You are young. You have strong arms.” You don’t know that it is God’s pleasure for this poor person to go to you and ask for a handout. You show yourself as speaking against the will of God. There are some who say: “Oh, how badly he uses it!” May he do whatever he wants with it! The poor will be judged on the use they have made of their alms, and you will be judged on the very alms that you could have given but haven’t.” St. John Vianney I got that off of a search, I thought it was appropriate. If 2000 years ago it was written that it was the last hour, certainly these are the last minutes. “Due to the increase of evil, the love of most will grow cold. The man who holds out to the end will come through safe”. I know there are many out there who take advantage, and very aggressive professional panhandlers. I give them a little change and they look at me like a cow at a passing train, no thank you ar anything, and thats ok. I still think it follows what the gospel states. It is very hard sometimes, but not harder than forgiving your enemys or praying for them, earnestly. It is how I attempt to worship God. I still love them and you as well. Peace-Mark

Mark

I have one simple question; show one beggar that Jesus or the apostles make good and helped that was in good health

so that he was there begging because he was lazy,ONE

you are deceiving yourself my friend.

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2010,13:47)

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 02 2010,17:27) “There are those who say to the poor that they seem to look to be in such good health: “You are so lazy! You could work. You are young. You have strong arms.” You don’t know that it is God’s pleasure for this poor person to go to you and ask for a handout. You show yourself as speaking against the will of God. There are some who say: “Oh, how badly he uses it!” May he do whatever he wants with it! The poor will be judged on the use they have made of their alms, and you will be judged on the very alms that you could have given but haven’t.” St. John Vianney I got that off of a search, I thought it was appropriate. If 2000 years ago it was written that it was the last hour, certainly these are the last minutes. “Due to the increase of evil, the love of most will grow cold. The man who holds out to the end will come through safe”. I know there are many out there who take advantage, and very aggressive professional panhandlers. I give them a little change and they look at me like a cow at a passing train, no thank you ar anything, and thats ok. I still think it follows what the gospel states. It is very hard sometimes, but not harder than forgiving your enemys or praying for them, earnestly. It is how I attempt to worship God. I still love them and you as well. Peace-Mark Mark I have one simple question; show one beggar that Jesus or the apostles make good and helped that was in good health so that he was there begging because he was lazy,ONE you are deceiving yourself my friend. Pierre

I Love you Pierre.

[mikeangel]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 02 2010,13:40)

Hi. From the Earliest Church Writings, Sheppard of Hermas, The piece on almsgiving is in the second paragraph of the 'second commandmment', but you should read the first pieces too….. First Commandment ON FAITH IN GOD. FIRST Of all, believe that there is one God who created and finished all things, and made all things out of nothing. He alone is able to contain the whole, but Himself cannot be contained. Have faith therefore in Him, and fear Him; and fearing Him, exercise self-control. Keep these commands, and you will cast away from you all wickedness, and put on the strength of righteousness, and live to God, if you keep this commandment. Second Commandment ON AVOIDING EVIL-SPEAKING, AND ON GIVING ALMS IN SIMPLICITY. He said to me, “Be simple and guileless, and you will be as the children who know not the wickedness that ruins the life of men. First, then, speak evil of no one, nor listen with pleasure to any one who speaks evil of another. But if you listen, you will partake of the sin of him who speaks evil, if you believe the slander which you hear; for believing it, you will also have something to say against your brother. Thus, then, will you be guilty of the sin of him who slanders. For slander is evil and an unsteady demon. It never abides in peace, but always remains in discord. Keep yourself from it, and you will always be at peace with all. Put on a holiness in which there is no wicked cause of offence, but all deeds that are equable and joyful. Practise goodness; and from the rewards of your labours, which God gives you, give to all the needy in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom you are to give or not to give. Give to all, for God wishes His gifts to be shared amongst all. They who receive, will render an account to God why and for what they have received. For the afflicted who receive will not be condemned, but they who receive on false pretences will suffer punishment. He, then, who gives is guiltless. For as he received from the Lord, so has he accomplished his service in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom he should give and to whom he should not give. This service, then, if accomplished in simplicity, is glorious with God. He, therefore, who thus ministers in simplicity, will live to God. Keep therefore these commandments, as I have given them to you, that your repentance and the repentance of your house may be found in simplicity, and your heart may be pure and stainless.” http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html

I believe this to be wisdom and a guide to almsgiving. I have read it and think it is true. Alot of other writings I believe are motivated by personal agandas, but the sheppard of hermas is good. I also like the “didache”, an early church guide. I wish all the churches could go back to it. Hope all is well with you. Peace and love-Mark

[mikeangel]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2010,13:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2010,17:35) “Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.  Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for the rest of his life.” mike Mike yeah

Ya'll come on down here, and I'll show you how to crappie fish. I can even show you how to pour your own jig, and go out the same day and catch something on it.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 03 2010,04:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2010,13:47) Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 02 2010,17:27) “There are those who say to the poor that they seem to look to be in such good health: “You are so lazy! You could work. You are young. You have strong arms.” You don’t know that it is God’s pleasure for this poor person to go to you and ask for a handout. You show yourself as speaking against the will of God. There are some who say: “Oh, how badly he uses it!” May he do whatever he wants with it! The poor will be judged on the use they have made of their alms, and you will be judged on the very alms that you could have given but haven’t.” St. John Vianney I got that off of a search, I thought it was appropriate. If 2000 years ago it was written that it was the last hour, certainly these are the last minutes. “Due to the increase of evil, the love of most will grow cold. The man who holds out to the end will come through safe”. I know there are many out there who take advantage, and very aggressive professional panhandlers. I give them a little change and they look at me like a cow at a passing train, no thank you ar anything, and thats ok. I still think it follows what the gospel states. It is very hard sometimes, but not harder than forgiving your enemys or praying for them, earnestly. It is how I attempt to worship God. I still love them and you as well. Peace-Mark Mark I have one simple question; show one beggar that Jesus or the apostles make good and helped that was in good health so that he was there begging because he was lazy,ONE you are deceiving yourself my friend. Pierre I Love you Pierre.

Mark

this is not a answer ??

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 02 2010,13:40)

Give to all, for God wishes His gifts to be shared amongst all. They who receive, will render an account to God why and for what they have received. For the afflicted who receive will not be condemned, but they who receive on false pretences will suffer punishment. He, then, who gives is guiltless.

Hi Shimmer,

This is also how I understand it.  

Luke 6:30 NIV
Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

Give to all who ask.  Their reasons for asking are between them and God.  After all, like my signature says, “Everything under heaven belongs to God”. And He has given freely, so we should do the same.

peace and love,
mike

[Author]

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