Worship God the Father only?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:19)

Mike It doesn't matter they both mean “Good”. WJ

Not always.

[mikeboll64]

Hey Keith,

What about this…………

2. The formerly blind man “proskuneo'd” Jesus right in front of the Pharisees who were looking for a reason to kill Jesus. Do you think accepting “God-worship” would have been reason enough?

………..and the rest of my post?

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 02 2010,02:18)

Quote (david @ Nov. 01 2010,13:11) Quote The point was cut and dry, its very simple, Jesus claimed that the Father was in Him, and they are one, it doesnt state that they were EVER seperated. Of course “it” meaning that scripture that speaks of Jehovah and Jesus being “one” doesn't speak about them separating.  Never said it did.  All I said was you would be blind to think that this scripture means they are “one” person because also in John, it is said that Jesus and his disciples are “one” in the same manner as Jehovah and Jesus. Unless you also want to try to use this “one” to prove that Jesus and his disciples are the same person, then your logic is inconsistent. You have to look at context and how similar things are said of others.  We can't just blindly ignore extremely similar statments. I get it but i dont see how that apply to the point that Jesus said that God and himself are not ever seperated. Not Just john 17, but the many times he has claimed that the Father lives IN him.   The question arises again were they ever seperated?

SF

do not see it with carnal eyes but with the spirit,

they always have been separated as beings but not in spirit.

did not Christ said that he always do what the father wants him to do,and again did he not say that he watches what the father does,and again ,that he take pleasure in what his father does ,and that he rejoice in doing his father's will.

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:27)

Hey Keith, What about this………… 2.  The formerly blind man “proskuneo'd” Jesus right in front of the Pharisees who were looking for a reason to kill Jesus.  Do you think accepting “God-worship” would have been reason enough? ………..and the rest of my post? mike

Mike

Again you create a fallacy and a strawman because why would the Pharisees stone someone for being worshipped.

The sin would be against those that worshipped him, right?

They didn't know how to react to this behavour by others, it is obvious, so instead they accused him for making himself equal to God, that is why they wanted to stone him.

This should tell you that they were truly worshipping him, that is why they believed his claims that he was equal to God. You do see that don't you?

WJ

[shimmer]

Hi all, I only have a moment spare but..When Jesus said “Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God” if you think spiritually instead of useing the words only, Jesus was humbling himself. How often do you humble yourself enough to say “Im not good, why call me good ?” Jesus therefore was showing where he was in position to the Father who was and is higher than him, and that none is good except for God. BUT Jesus was the only man worthy to open the scroll “Weep not for behold the Lion from the tribe of Judah, He has overcome” so though He humbled himself, He overcame the world.

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:53)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do, Shimmer Do you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good? Jesus also said… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works. This is why they took up stones to kill him. Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30 WJ WJ Jesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD” Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”. So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre? Tell us Pierre, was Jesus Good or not? If he is then how do you explain your conundrum?   WJ

WJ

no, to your question,only one is good and it is God.

Jesus did not came down to be good in his father s place,
he came down to do his father s will ,

but you are not driven by the spirit how would you know,

well come back anyway.

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,21:33)

Hi all, I only have a moment spare but..When Jesus said “Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God” if you think spiritually instead of useing the words only, Jesus was humbling himself. How often do you humble yourself enough to say “Im not good, why call me good ?” Jesus therefore was showing where he was in position to the Father who was and is higher than him, and that none is good except for God. BUT Jesus was the only man worthy to open the scroll “Weep not for behold the Lion from the tribe of Judah, He has overcome” so though He humbled himself, He overcame the world.

Shimmer

Does this mean that Jesus was Good? If so your explanation doesn't match Jesus words.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,21:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:53) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do, Shimmer Do you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good? Jesus also said… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works. This is why they took up stones to kill him. Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30 WJ WJ Jesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD” Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”. So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre? Tell us Pierre, was Jesus Good or not? If he is then how do you explain your conundrum?   WJ WJ no, to your question,only one is good and it is God. Jesus did not came down to be good in his father s place, he came down to do his father s will , but you are not driven by the spirit how would you know, well come back anyway. Pierre

So Jesus was not Good? So Jesus was a liar when he said he was the “Good Shepherd”?

WJ

[shimmer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,15:37)

Shimmer Does this mean that Jesus was Good? If so your explanation doesn't match Jesus words. WJ

Jesus WAS good, He was the only one who overcame the world, so of course He was good, better than all of us, but the thing He was meaning is – He was humbling Himself, and also showing who He was and who God was.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 02 2010,13:33)

Hi all, I only have a moment spare but..When Jesus said “Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God” if you think spiritually instead of useing the words only, Jesus was humbling himself. How often do you humble yourself enough to say “Im not good, why call me good ?” Jesus therefore was showing where he was in position to the Father who was and is higher than him, and that none is good except for God. BUT Jesus was the only man worthy to open the scroll “Weep not for behold the Lion from the tribe of Judah, He has overcome” so though He humbled himself, He overcame the world.

You have it correct Shimmer. That's exactly the point Jesus was making, and it fits right in with all the other things he said to point all praise to God. “I only speak what the Father has taught me”, “the Father is greater than I/all”, “I go to your God and my God”, “I can do nothing on my own”, etc, etc, etc. There are many of them.

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,21:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,15:37) Shimmer Does this mean that Jesus was Good? If so your explanation doesn't match Jesus words. WJ Jesus WAS good, He was the only one who overcame the world, so of course He was good, better than all of us, but the thing He was meaning is – He was humbling Himself, and also showing who He was and who God was.

Okay, but Jesus said “No one” is “Good” but God!

How do you explain that?

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:32)

Mike Again you create a fallacy and a strawman because why would the Pharisees stone someone for being worshipped. The sin would be against those that worshipped him, right? They didn't know how to react to this behavour by others, it is obvious, so instead they accused him for making himself equal to God, that is why they wanted to stone him. This should tell you that they were truly worshipping him, that is why they believed his claims that he was equal to God. You do see that don't you? WJ

Hi Keith,

This is poppycock and you know it brother.  The Pharisees had to bring people in to LIE about Jesus in order to kill him.  But you don't think someone worshipping him as God Himself right in front of them would be enough for both Jesus and the formerly blind man to be put to death?

“They didn't know how to react”?  The were the experts in the Law.  I'm not an expert in the Law and yet I know it's not okay to worship anyone other than God.  You know that too, don't you Keith?

mike

[shimmer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,15:40)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,21:39) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,15:37) Shimmer Does this mean that Jesus was Good? If so your explanation doesn't match Jesus words. WJ Jesus WAS good, He was the only one who overcame the world, so of course He was good, better than all of us, but the thing He was meaning is – He was humbling Himself, and also showing who He was and who God was. Okay, but Jesus said “No one” is “Good” but God! How do you explain that? WJ

Humbing Himself – spiritually – think – imagine Jesus speaking “Why do you call me good…no-one is good – but God” Because God is everything to Him. Dont look so hard at the word “Good” but think what Jesus was meaning,

I have to go.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:40)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 02 2010,13:33) Hi all, I only have a moment spare but..When Jesus said “Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God” if you think spiritually instead of useing the words only, Jesus was humbling himself. How often do you humble yourself enough to say “Im not good, why call me good ?” Jesus therefore was showing where he was in position to the Father who was and is higher than him, and that none is good except for God. BUT Jesus was the only man worthy to open the scroll “Weep not for behold the Lion from the tribe of Judah, He has overcome” so though He humbled himself, He overcame the world. You have it correct Shimmer.  That's exactly the point Jesus was making, and it fits right in with all the other things he said to point all praise to God.  “I only speak what the Father has taught me”, “the Father is greater than I/all”, “I go to your God and my God”, “I can do nothing on my own”, etc, etc, etc.  There are many of them. mike

Okay!

Was Jesus humbling himself when he said that he is the “Good Shepherd” and that no man can pluck “HIS SHEEP” out of “HIS HAND” and that what he “SEES THE FATHER DO THAT HE ALSO DOES” and when he said “NO MAN CAN TAKE HIS LIFE FROM HIM BUT THAT HE HAD THE POWER TO BOTH LAY IT DOWN AND TO TAKE IT AGAIN”?“

AND IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS HE SAYS “I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE”.

Hello people, this is no ordinary man. But in fact he claims equality with God.

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Hey Keith,

How about when Cornelius bowed down to Peter? Do you think Cornelius thought Peter was actually Jehovah God in the flesh?

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,20:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,21:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:53) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do, Shimmer Do you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good? Jesus also said… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works. This is why they took up stones to kill him. Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30 WJ WJ Jesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD” Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”. So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre? Tell us Pierre, was Jesus Good or not? If he is then how do you explain your conundrum?   WJ WJ no, to your question,only one is good and it is God. Jesus did not came down to be good in his father s place, he came down to do his father s will , but you are not driven by the spirit how would you know, well come back anyway. Pierre So Jesus was not Good? So Jesus was a liar when he said he was the “Good Shepherd”? WJ

WJ

are you def ??

it means that he was the true shepherd,

you are stuck on the word don't ye,WJ,you are not the only one,

this is why you need the spirit of Christ to see the truth ,
what obviously you can not see,why,WORDS,WORDS,WORDS AND WORDS,

this is why,tax collectors ,prostitutes ,ect will enter the kingdom in front of you.

Lk 18:11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
Lk 18:13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner
Lk 18:14 “I tell you, the tax collector went home accepted by God. But not the Pharisee.

Lk 18:16 But Jesus asked the children to come to him. “Let the little children come to me,” he said. “Don’t keep them away. God’s kingdom belongs to people like them

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:46)

Hello people, this is no ordinary man. But in fact he claims equality with God.

Never. But just stick to the worship question at hand. I've given two NT examples……..what say you?

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:32) Mike Again you create a fallacy and a strawman because why would the Pharisees stone someone for being worshipped. The sin would be against those that worshipped him, right? They didn't know how to react to this behavour by others, it is obvious, so instead they accused him for making himself equal to God, that is why they wanted to stone him. This should tell you that they were truly worshipping him, that is why they believed his claims that he was equal to God. You do see that don't you? WJ Hi Keith, This is poppycock and you know it brother.  The Pharisees had to bring people in to LIE about Jesus in order to kill him.  But you don't think someone worshipping him as God Himself right in front of them would be enough for both Jesus and the formerly blind man to be put to death? “They didn't know how to react”?  The were the experts in the Law.  I'm not an expert in the Law and yet I know it's not okay to worship anyone other than God.  You know that too, don't you Keith? mike

Mike

No what you say is poppycock. Which is the greater sin, the people worshipping Jesus or Jesus claiming to be equal to God?

Which one could they hold against him? How is he responsible for their worship? You got it, because he claimed he was Gods Son therefore in their minds that meant he is claiming equality with God.

Sorry Mike I just blew a big hole in one of your so-called air tight theories!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:47)

Hey Keith, How about when Cornelius bowed down to Peter?  Do you think Cornelius thought Peter was actually Jehovah God in the flesh? mike

Mike

Did not Peter correct him for his “Worship”? Yep thats right Mike, Peter saw Cornelius act as one of “Worship” (proskyneō), didn't he?  

But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. Acts 10:26

Why didn't Jesus do this?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,21:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,20:38) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,21:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:53) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do, Shimmer Do you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good? Jesus also said… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works. This is why they took up stones to kill him. Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30 WJ WJ Jesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD” Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says… I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14 The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”. So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre? Tell us Pierre, was Jesus Good or not? If he is then how do you explain your conundrum?   WJ WJ no, to your question,only one is good and it is God. Jesus did not came down to be good in his father s place, he came down to do his father s will , but you are not driven by the spirit how would you know, well come back anyway. Pierre So Jesus was not Good? So Jesus was a liar when he said he was the “Good Shepherd”? WJ WJ are you def ?? it means that he was the true shepherd, you are stuck on the word don't ye,WJ,you are not the only one, this is why you need the spirit of Christ to see the truth , what obviously you can not see,why,WORDS,WORDS,WORDS AND WORDS, this is why,tax collectors ,prostitutes ,ect will enter the kingdom in front of you. Lk 18:11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. Lk 18:13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner Lk 18:14 “I tell you, the tax collector went home accepted by God. But not the Pharisee. Lk 18:16 But Jesus asked the children to come to him. “Let the little children come to me,” he said. “Don’t keep them away. God’s kingdom belongs to people like them Pierre

To bad you don't believe Jesus is the “Good Shepherd”. Jesus said he is the only way and if you try and go to God some other way you are a theif and a robber.

Now ask yourself if God would have someone be our Savour who is not Good?

Hello, who has the Holy Spirit of God here?

WJ

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