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Quote Marlin1, I have posted this in other threads and it's seems that it goes beyond their ability to grasp it. It is no secrete that it is the Spirit of God that will revile the truth to our spirits not our minds. It is up to us to renew our minds.
Things that Gods states in His Word are like Peter that said is hard to be understood, but must be believed by faith and meditated until it becomes clear. Also if medically or scientifically it agrees then it must be true.First of all, In Gen chapter 1 it says that God made things that have the seed in itself to reproduce after it's kind. This is confirmed by medical science that shows the seed has DNA and the Genes that will only do what it is programed to do.
You cannot take an apple seed and put it in a field of grapes and expect that seed to produce a grapes like the rest of the grape seed do.
The seed of man is no different from any other seed.
When Adam sinned his seed was affected and past down hat his seed became, which was a sinful nature.
Remember God saw everything He created and said “it was good”, He could not say this if He created Adam sinful.
[/B]THE NATURE OF A THING IS IN ITS SEED
(as a matter of fact Peter says that if you receive the Word of God you are a partaker of His nature)
After Adam sinned and passed seed it could only reproduce after its kind, (which is a sinful nature by virtue of the vail as described in 2Cr. 3:13-18).
The bible said when Adam died we all died. We were all in Adam by virtue of his seed.
We all understand that we come from our father and his father and so on. If my father had a defect in his GENES, (DNA) it will show up in my DNA and I or my children might have to deal with that defect.
Women who have breast cancer in their family will need to watch out for the defect to show up in themselves.
We have no problem with believing these things in the natural, but have stumbled over the Spiritual truths.
Going fast forward to Christ, we in Him are declared to be righteous, not because of what we have done, but because of what He has done and when we are in Him we are taken our of Adam, (the first man) and translated into Jesus, (the second man).
What Adam accomplished, (in the negative) we all are partakers of and in Jesus we are partakers of His accomplishments, that is redemption.
Don't think you can just ignore this and say you know better because it is not only bible, but is confirmed by medical or scientific truths.
Brother Rich,
Sorry it took me so long to answer, I missed your post.
I am not sure what you are trying to say. Adam was made perfect, just like God said.
His flesh or seed did not change. Where did God do that?
He made a free will choice, because he loved Eve, to disobey God. And for that reason, he was kicked out of the garden and died.
How did evil flesh come over into my flesh, without breaking Eze 18:20?
God Bless
bro. MarlinMarlin1, you have to read my post again. It all has to do with the seed.
I will say it this way. THE NATURE OF MAN IS IN HIS SEED.Adam walked with God in the cool of the day, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, Adam was in fear and knew shame and could not face God. That shows that Adam's nature changed.
When Adam passed seed, he passed the nature of himself which was a fallen or sinful nature.
Another thing to look at is “roots”. I might not be able to articulate it very good be typing it, but doing a study on it will show that Adam lost his roots through the vail he received from the sinful nature. That vail is present upon every man that is not born again and was present in the tabernacle and temple that was torn when Jesus died.
Jesus interpreted the parable of the sower by saying that some seed fell on stony ground which had no root.
Contrasts this with Paul statement that we should be rooted.
Also look at the story about Jesus taking a blind man and spit on his eyes and ask him to look up and tell Him what he saw.
It is easy to look past this if your not looking for an answer, because the man who was blind, (how long nobody knows) said he saw “men walking as trees”.
Trees don't walk because they have roots that go down into the ground. If they have no roots then they are a dead tree.
Sounds familiar? We were dead in sins until we are born again, which afterwards are rooted in God through Jesus.
To all:
Please read and study this before going off on a wild rebuke.Brother Rich,
Rest assured that I will not go off in a wild rebuke, I will disagree with you about Adam's seed though.
GEN 1:12 † And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself,
GEN 3:15 † And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Everything came with its seed within it. Adam's seed was part of Adam when created. And he was created perfect.
No Where does it say that God changed Adam or his seed. In fact for Adam's Sin, he was not cursed at all, God cursed the ground.
GEN 3:17 † And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;This forbidden fruit is the same forbidden fruit that our parents told us not to partake of.
If Adam & Eve ate of an Apple as most have been taught, would it not make sense that Cain's fruit offering would have been accepted.
It was a blood sin and it required a blood sacrifice and God made the 1st sacrifice Himself.
There is a lot of scriptural support, if there is any interest.
God Bless
bro. MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 03 2012,17:02) Quote You still have not answered why we are born with a SINFUL Nature? Because the life in the flesh is in the blood.
Brother Ed,
So you and I are sinners, because our blood is tainted.
Is that what you are saying?
How did it get tainted?
God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi Marlin,You should read the entirety of my posts.
We are not born with sinful flesh.
But we are born with a sinful nature,
because we have Adams blood coursing
through our veins. Unlike Jesus, who didn't.Once we become “One” with the “HolySpirit” and
with the “spirit of Christ” that nature is transformed. (See John 14:23, John 17:22, and 2Peter 1:4)2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Richtuner @ Dec. 04 2012,11:19) Marlin1, Adam walked with God in the cool of the day, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, Adam was in fear and
knew shame and could not face God. That shows that Adam's nature changed.
Hi Rich,Good point! Marlin will
likely discount it though.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Hi Marlin, You should read the entirety of my posts.
We are not born with sinful flesh. THIS IS AN UNTRUE STATEMENT
But we are born with a sinful nature,
because we have Adams blood coursing
through our veins. Unlike Jesus, who didn't.Once we become “One” with the “HolySpirit” and
with the “spirit of Christ” that nature is transformed. (See John 14:23, John 17:22, and 2Peter 1:4)2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.God bless
Ed JBrother Ed,
You believe not the Word of God and hold to the traditions of man.
I showed you more then one scripture that shows we all have sinful flesh. Yet you reject it and hold on to your traditions.
You say we have Adams sinful blood in us, Yet Adam was made perfect and God never changed His Blood. God never cursed Adam AT ALL.
Adams Blood was just fine, not one thing wrong with it.
Adams flesh was just fine, not one thing wrong with it.Yet we have sinful flesh and you don't know why, so you follow the traditions of man.
Every person should want to know the truth of why the flesh of man is evil, but most are content to believe what has been taught to them. That we are fallen people and evil to the bone, because our fore father ate an apple that Eve gave him and that God had told them not to do.
Lies, Lies and more lies, that is what man does. The revealed Word of God for the hour we live is true.
Come out from among her be not partakers of her sins.
God is closing the door and no man will be able to open it.God Bless
bro. MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 04 2012,17:19) Quote Hi Marlin, We are not born with sinful flesh.
God bless
Ed J
Brother Ed,THIS IS AN UNTRUE STATEMENT
I showed you more then one scripture that shows we all have sinful flesh.
God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi Marlin,But not one that says we were born with sinful flesh.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 04 2012,17:19) Brother Ed, You say we have Adams sinful blood in us, Yet Adam was made perfect and God never changed His Blood.
God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi Marlin,Adam's nature changed after he ate
of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil.
Life is in the blood, therefore the blood did indeed change.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Adam walked with God in the cool of the day, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, Adam was in fear and
knew shame and could not face God. That shows that Adam's nature changed.Hi Rich,
Good point! Marlin will
likely discount it though.God bless
Ed JBrother Ed,
When a person with the Holy Ghost does something wrong, does the persons NATURE change back to an EVIL NATURE. ***** NO *****
Neither did Adams nature change. Adam was willfully disobedient. Eve was deceived.
“, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, “
The question here should be What did they eat? For it was the cause of the EVIL Nature of all mankind.
God Bless
bro. MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 04 2012,17:33) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 04 2012,16:16) Quote (Richtuner @ Dec. 04 2012,11:19) Marlin1, Adam walked with God in the cool of the day, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, Adam was in fear and
knew shame and could not face God. That shows that Adam's nature changed.
Hi Rich,Good point! Marlin will
likely discount it though.God bless
Ed J
Brother Ed,“, but after they ate of the forbidden tree, “
The question here should be What did they eat? For it was the cause of the EVIL Nature of all mankind.God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi Marlin,That's exactly what me and Rich are saying.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMarlin1,
Quote The question here should be What did they eat? For it was the cause of the EVIL Nature of all mankind. How can you confirm this and still say that Adams nature was not affected and passed down through seed?
Reading my post I show the Word that said death is passed down to all from Adam.
How can that happen expect through his seed.The subject of the seed is a universal truth. There are universal truths in the bible.
When Jesus sent out the 70 and the 12 He said “freely you have received freely give”Is that not a universal truth? Can you give something you don't have?
Does not man reproduce after his kind through seed??
It's not what Adam ate, but the fact that he did eat after he was told not to.
Adam's sin in not what he ate , but lies in that fact that he did what God said not to do.
Sin is disobedience to God's Word, rebellion to His will.If it was not through Adam's seed we have inherited the sin nature, then how did it come to us all.
The bible said through Adam came sin, death, disobedience, etc.
Someone quoted from David that said he was conceived in and shaped in iniquity. How can that be if we did not received this nature from Adam?God did not have to curse Adam. Adam brought this on himself. Does God come down and curse you if you sin? No, you bring the curses on yourselves.
Go back and look at the scriptures about roots I used. This explains a lot if you study them.
The root of mankind, (the first man) is Adam, the root of man is his spirit, the root of the new creation, (second man, last Adam) is Jesus.In Adam and had what he had, (which is no roots), in Jesus we have roots in God through Jesus.
It takes a while to study and understand this, but it will open your eyes to understanding redemption.
Paul prayed that our eyes of our understanding will be enlightened so that we might know.
The biggest thing we should know and know it well is about our redemption.
If you want to know where and what you are, (in Jesus) then you must know where you came from.
If you are asked to be saved, but don't know you are lost what good was it to ask?Who were you in Adam? Who are you in Jesus? How did you get in Adam and how did you get in Jesus?
Everybody needs to stop with the same old thoughts and look beyond your limits to understand with your mind and stretch your view of God and His redemptive work through Jesus.
Brother Rich,
I need to study what you wrote, but I do have a thought or two.
EZE 18:17 † That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
EZE 18:20 † The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
The sin of our fathers is not our sin, where does it say that Adam is exempt from the above?
That we do not bear the sins of our fathers, except for Adams?
NOPE IT ISN'T IN THE SCRIPTURESYou are right in that this has been universally taught by the Christian Church, it is beyond understanding how some things that are taught came about and are believed by so many.
Everything is the Old testament was done in the natural, yet you want to make this spiritual like the new testament.I am in no way responsible for Adam and Eve's disobedience. That is God's Word.
Yet I am born a sinner, so there must be an explanation?
So just maybe we should go back and look at the scriptures again.Speaking of seeds,
What about the curse to the serpent Gen 3:15? Between his(serpent) seed and her seed?I am going back to study what you wrote now.
God Bless
bro. MarlinQuote The question here should be What did they eat? For it was the cause of the EVIL Nature of all mankind. How can you confirm this and still say that Adams nature was not affected and passed down through seed?
Brother Rich,
I can say it because, I only believe the WORD, period. Not mans interpretation of the Word. Man has been trying to interpret God's Word from the beginning. And he has been getting it wrong from the beginning.
We are not responsible for our fathers sins, not even Adams.Quote How can that happen expect through his seed. If it was not through Adam's seed we have inherited the sin nature, then how did it come to us all.
That is the question, isn't it. So that only means there is a way that does not break any of God's Words.Quote The biggest thing we should know and know it well is about our redemption.
If you want to know where and what you are, (in Jesus) then you must know where you came from.
If you are asked to be saved, but don't know you are lost what good was it to ask?Who were you in Adam? Who are you in Jesus? How did you get in Adam and how did you get in Jesus?
Everybody needs to stop with the same old thoughts and look beyond your limits to understand with your mind and stretch your view of God and His redemptive work through Jesus.
In this we agree, everybody needs to be able to look at a different point of view, I mean truly trying to see what is being presented. But most don't even look.
God Bless
bro. MarlinMarlin1, About that fact that we do not pay for our fathers sin is correct. We do suffer the consequences by what he does that can be seen. If your father leaves your mom and does not have anything to do with you physically or mentally or financially, his sin of abandonment affects you for life.
I used this in another post, If your great great great grandfather was a man before his time and knew how to map the Genes, DNA etc that they know about today and decided to experiment and mixed a few things together and knowing that when he drank this it would turn off a gene that finished the shaping of the hands by removing the web part of the hands.
This he did and it worked. All of his children were born with web hands. It is now a part of your DNA or Genes.
This is physical, but looking at these scriptures you have to see the spiritual truths also.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.Notice,”one man”, (Adam) “death”, “sin” entered into the world. Which means it was not a part of mankind before.
“Death” passed down to “ALL” men for ALL SINNED. When did all sin?
When did you inherit your great grandfathers sin and bear the web hands?
When did you inherit your great grandfather, (Adam) sin?If you mediated and study this, you will see that we are a product of our fathers right doings or sins.
It says “Nevertheless death reigned”, death is in our nature, that is our spiritual nature which is our root, like that of a tree whose roots are either good or evil and will feed the rest of the tree from what the roots are and rooted in.(there is a good lesson in the story of Jesus in Mark 11 when He cursed the fig tree, which died form the roots). We can bear no fruits while we are dead spiritually because we have no roots without Him.
We die physically because we are dead spiritually.
JUST A NOTE THAT DEATH IS NOT JUST WHAT WE SEE IN THE CASKET, DEATH MEANS “TO SEPARATE”. IN ADAM WE WERE SEPARATED FROM GOD, (SPIRITUAL DEATH), IN JESUS WE ARE MADE ALIVE IN GOD THROUGH JESUS RESTORING US TO GOD'S LIFE, ETERNAL LIFE.
Much more to this, but I don't do a good enough job in writing and need to go.
Quote DEATH MEANS “TO SEPARATE”. IN ADAM WE WERE SEPARATED FROM GOD, (SPIRITUAL DEATH), IN JESUS WE ARE MADE ALIVE Brother Rich,
In this, the spiritual side, I agree with you. But there is a lot more to this picture, that most do not see or will not accept.
God does not hold us responsible for Adam's sins. Adam didn't change his DNA, no where does it say that God changed Adam's DNA.
But my flesh, your flesh, all flesh, except Jesus flesh is fallen and evil to the core.HOW did all mans flesh get corrupted?
Let us look at the curse of the serpent.
GEN 3:14 † And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 † And I will put enmity [hostility] between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [Off SPRING] and her seed [Off SPRING]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.So God's curse of this serpent changed it from some kind of beast unto a snake
The sin in the garden caused God to say that the woman's offspring and the serpent's offspring would fight.The sin was a BLOOD sin and required a BLOOD sacrifice.
Adam was still a son of God and he had by Eve, sons of God,(perfect in flesh but separated from God). In fact look at
GEN 6:2 † That the sons of God saw the daughters of men,(mixed flesh), that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.Now you have two lineages here, right back to Gen 3:15.
There are many scriptures that point to this TRUTH that has been revealed by the prophet of Rev 10:7
God Bless
bro. MarlinLet us look at the curse of the serpent.
GEN 3:14 † And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 † And I will put enmity [hostility] between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [Off SPRING] and her seed [Off SPRING]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Marlin1,
Quote God does not hold us responsible for Adam's sins. Do you remember the story in the Old Testament when the Israelites fought at Jericho and won, but when they went up against Ai they lost bad and Joshua ask the Lord why and He said there was sin in the camp.
A lot of men died because of one man who stoled stuff and hid it in his tent. Those men were not responsible for what Achan had done, but when people sin it will affect those around or under them. This is in Joshua chapter 7.
It may not be fair to us, but you will have to accept that God will allow the sins of a father or a King or CEO etc. to affect those who are under them or who are joined to them in that way.How about those in Jesus?
We are made righteous in Him. We did not do anything to earn that righteousness. So why would God give it to us?
Because of what Jesus did it is passed down to us through the seed of faith.Natural seed and Spiritual seed.
You may not like it, but there is a lot of things that we might not like about how God does things concerning man.
Rom_9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?Rom_11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
The lesson in vs.22 is that God is absolute. When He says that if you will believe He will do the thing He has promised, no matter if you are a good person or not just as long as you do your part.
On the other hand, if He says He will withhold if you do this, then you can count of it that God's Word will work either way because His Word is absolute both ways.the Blessings of God are sure and the curses of God is sure.
Just the same that if God says that “if you will, then I will”, rest assure that God will owe up to whatever way you take it.Everything was under Adam's domain and all under him will be affected by his actions, weather good or bad.
It just so happened to be bad that he plunged all mankind into sin.
But you have to remember that from the start God made a way of escape by His Son Jesus.Brother Rich,
ZEC 14:6 † And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 † But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.If your ok with staying in the dark, that is your choice. I for one never understood why God would charge Adam's sin to me. It always seem like it was contrary to His Word and it was. Then one day God opened my eyes to the truth of why we are all born sinners. Like you said, His Word is TRUE, when He says the fathers sins do not transfer to the sons, He meant every WORD of it.
Your example in the old testament doesn't hold the water you think. Israel was and is always judged as a nation. Any sin in the camp was every ones sin. Israel, to God is always treated as a nation. The bride is a people, one here and one there of every nation.
Eve disbelieved only one Word of God and according to you what she actually did, DOESN'T MATTER.
It matters much more then you think. It was the SIN that made the requirement of a blood sacrifice.It was only one Word of disbelief then and it only takes one Word of disbelief now to separate us from God.
Jesus said, will I find faith when I return, He will find very very few that have faith in the revealed Word for the hour they live. The peoples preconceived ideas keep them from receiving the TRUTH.
The last church age is ending and the people, in spiritual things are poor, blind, naked, wretched, and miserable and DON'T EVEN KNOW IT.
God's Word is True, many things have been hid and revealed by God in this last day, (it shall be light in the evening time), why stay in the dark.
God Bless
bro. Marlin
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