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T8…..I was never taking about his appointed desteny, that is certanily special, so was people like Adam , and Moses, and ALL the prophets were, but none of those things made any of them, not ORDINARY HUMAN BEINGS in the sense of their human flesh and blood existence. We could say the same things about our Presidents or Queen Elizabeth , world class athletes. But they still were all ordinary humans in there makeup. The same applies to JESUS.
YOU PREEXISTENERS move or try you best to “SEPERATE” Jesus from the rest of his brothers and sister, as his HUMAN EXISTENCE and MAKE UP IS CONCERENED, something Jesus sure did not do. You preach a different JESUS, different from his brothers and sisters, different FROM the rest of humanity . Your Jesus is not the Jesus of scripture. You efforts are to make a Jesus not human, a preexisting centinel being “MORPHED” into a human body, but truly not one of us humans. So you try in every way to make him different the we are as a human, who came into his “EXISTENCE’ the same way we did.
To not see Jesus as a ordinary human being who GOD THE FATHER has exulted to his present position, does many things that serves the work of Satan.
1…it causes people to think they can never attain to the stature of JESUS.
2…it breakes the connection Jesus has with his brothers and sisters.
3… it destorys FAITH in GOD THE FATHER.
4…it make Jesus the object of worship, instead of God the Father.
Go read 2ths2 that “man of sin” here is speaking of the false “IMAGE” that fallen Christanity has made of JESUS. You preexisteners help form that false “IMAGE” OF JESUS.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
T8……have you cut NICK off from posting? He keeps getting a error notice when he tries to post.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
T8……Nick has confirmed you have cut him I òff from posting. Is that what happens to those who disagree with you?
I believe Nick was right on his post to you so does that mean I WILL ALSO be kicked of your site again? Bad form T8.
Peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Nick……send me your EMAIL address so I can keep in touch with you brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Ed,
You claim that mt 1.20 shows that GOD’s HOLY SPIRIT WAS CONCEIVED IN MARY.
Hi Nick, No I don’t.
I say “the spirit of Christ” was conceived in Mary.
God’s HolySpirit is father to “the spirit of Christ”.God’s Spirit < --> The HolySpirit
Jesus’ Spirit < --> Spirit of Christ“WE will come unto him, and make
OUR abode with him” (John 14:23)but none of those things made any of them, not ORDINARY HUMAN BEINGS in the sense of their human flesh and blood existence.
If you paid attention to what we actually believe, then many of your post would have been unnecessary. No one here denies Jesus was born as a man and an ordinary looking man at that. You need to invest a little time to understand what others are actually saying. It is easier than posting 100 irrelevant posts to then arrive at the conclusion that we are not saying what you thought.
Nick is exactly the same. Saying we deny this and that when it is not true at all.
T8……Nick has confirmed you have cut him I òff from posting. Is that what happens to those who disagree with you?
Think for a minute. Many people teach thing here that I disagree with, but are never cut off. Mike teaches the earth is flat and I have zero intentions of banning him.
So why come to the conclusion that I am banning Nick because I disagree with him? Even Athiests have been members here who believe we are all apes.
Obviously you are wrong Gene, what you have suggested is untrue. There are of course things that can get you banned, so why not look them up, then think about what Nick has been doing for a very long time here and was progressively getting worse to the point that he was requiring more time to manage than time spent in honest discussion with others.
Nick is welcome to return if he respects the rules and focuses on the topic and not making personal judgements about everyone, but not holding my breath. Honestly, how was letting Nick act in such a manner helping him be a better and a more godly person? And how was his accusations day and night uplifting people in the love of God? It was not. Now he has time to reflect which is a good thing. Life is short. We should cast off all things that weigh us down and run the race to win.
I believe Nick was right on his post to you so does that mean I WILL ALSO be kicked of your site again? Bad form T8.
Yes you would as anyone else would if they continually break the rules here. I was very patient with him hoping he would change. His actions over the years have chased away a lot of people here. He took it on himself to attack nearly everyone and in older age he was getting worse not better. Even ignoring all others, it certainly wasn’t good for him if you think about it.
YOU PREEXISTENERS move or try you best to “SEPERATE” Jesus from the rest of his brothers and sister, as his HUMAN EXISTENCE and MAKE UP IS CONCERENED, something Jesus sure did not do.
No Gene you got it wrong again. Please read what myself and others actually say. This is a false accusation Gene.
T8…..The angel was simply telling them that Jesus was born who was the prophesied one to come and be the the messiah. Jesus was n I t the messiah until he actually was ANOINTED at the Jordan river, just as scripture “plainly” shows
Not so Gene.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
What you say it means requires some additions.
Today in the town of David a baby has been born to you; he will become Savior, the Messiah, and the Lord.
Be honest and you can see how you need to add to scripture to get your view and that you can change any scripture to your liking by adding to it. It’s not hard. But we keep the scripture intact and accept what it says without adding anything. It’s really that simple and you shouldn’t be accusing us of anything with that scripture, something, you Nick, and Jodi do, especially when you guys are the ones adding words to it to get your interpretation.
Hi All
Scriptures that help.
Micah 5:2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.”John 1:1-2In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
John 8:58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
John 17: “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.John 17:24“Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.Colossians 1:17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Hebrews 7:3Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.Revelation 22:13“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Colossians 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Hebrews 1:11-12THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”1 John 1:1-2What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life– and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us–John 1:15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'”Revelation 1:17-18When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.Revelation 2:8“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life,“Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the LordGod blessAnthony…..JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS “BORN” BRFORE ABRAHAM, he said before Abraham I am. Big difference in wording .
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
T8…..let me paraphrase it for you ok. , unto you this day in the town of DAVID, has been “born”, unto you a savior, he is the one who is to be the Messiah.
Scripture also says, “for unto us (human race) a child has “is” born, unto us a son “is” given.”…..
Now using your logic T8 AND OTHERS, that should mean that Jesus was born way back then, because after all it says “IS’ born and “IS” given , right, so it appears you guys are wrong because he was born at the time of Isa 9:6. RIGHT?
Do you see my point T8. AND NOT ONLY THAT, you still haven’t answered the question of why was he baptized and anointed later at the Jordan river, And why at that time the Spirit decended upon him as a dove, and “then” he was sent out by that spirit that decended from God, to be tested and then sent out into the world to preach the kingdom of God, and heal the sick and lame also. Why was it only after that time he began his work ? Why not when he was born?, after all he was already the savior , right? .
Look the Jews were looking for GOD TO SEND them a messiah , he was prophesied to come, a human being Just like Moses, so they were look forward for another Messiah like Moses. They fully understood he would be a human being born as a child and would grow up and then be ANOINTED with the spirit of GOD, JUST LIKE MOSES WAS.
What you people try so despretly to do, is make Jesus different then Moses and the prophets by giving him a preexisting status. In that way you sure are “SEPERATING”, Jesus from the rest of humanity, wrether you realize it or not, that is exactly what your doing. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours ………gene
T8…..let me paraphrase it for you ok. , unto you this day in the town of DAVID, has been “born”, unto you a savior, he is the one who is to be the Messiah.
It isn’t worded that way Gene and it is clear from the wording what is being said. If the angel said it that way, then why do you have a problem when we say it the exact same way. You shouldn’t have a problem unless you have a problem with the angel’s message itself. The only problem related to that verse is you adding words to the verse Gene.
You will never convince any of us otherwise because this is truth and reality and reality vs Gene will always have one winner.
What you people try so despretly to do, is make Jesus different then Moses and the prophets by giving him a preexisting status. In that way you sure are “SEPERATING”, Jesus from the rest of humanity, wrether you realize it or not, that is exactly what your doing. IMO
Not so. We quote about 20 scriptures on this subject and learn from them. It seems your stance goes against the flow and requires human reading and some extra introduced words. For example, some here hold the following verse the way it is written. You have an arsenal of arguments to explain it away. But as usual, we just believe what is written and trust it is true like a child while you seem bent on convincing others that it is not true.
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
T8….. why don’t you believe Isa 9:6 then, as meaning that Jesus was born back then, it clearly says, a child “IS” BORN, AND A SON “IS” GIVEN. Don’t you see you are being slective with that scripture, and corectly, because we all know that passage was referencing the future even though it can be translated as past tense. Same thing applies with what the angel said, he simply was telling them that the baby Jesus was the person prophsied to come, nothing more or nothing less. IMO
So when we say Jesus was not born a savior, or anointed, even though that was the babies prophesied destiny , we are wrong?, but you can deny the past tense of Isa 9:6. HOW do you justify that?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
T8……The Glory JESUS “HAD” WITH THE FATHER, WAS ALSO A PROPHESIED GLORY, AFFORDED HIM BEFORE HE EVER CAME INTO EXISTENCE. Jesus knew that glory was a promised glory, that scripture clearly shows would be his.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Well yeah, if you add certain words to these scriptures, then yes they would say that.
But try reading them as they are written. Do not add or takeaway.
He had this glory before the cosmos.
BTW, you live inside the cosmos in case you were not aware.
Hi Gene
You said: Jesus didn’t say He was born before Abraham…that was the New American translation here a list of different translation,
Me: yes it does say that and before the world, Also.
Check out these translation.
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
King James Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Holman Bible
Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am.”
International Standard Version
Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!”
A Conservative Version
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I am.
American Standard Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
Amplified
Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I Am.
An Understandable Version
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am.” [Note: The words “I am” were probably construed as a reference to being Deity. See Ex. 3:14].
Anderson New Testament
Jesus said to them: Verily, verily I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I was.
Bible in Basic English
Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.
Common New Testament
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Daniel Mace New Testament
Jesus said to them, verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was I AM.
Darby Translation
Jesus said to them, verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Godbey New Testament
Jesus said unto them, Truly, truly, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Goodspeed New Testament
Jesus said to them, “I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born!”
John Wesley New Testament
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.
Jubilee 2000 Bible
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
Julia Smith Translation
And Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
King James 2000
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Lexham Expanded Bible
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!”
Modern King James verseion
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
Modern Spelling Tyndale-Coverdale
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily I say unto you: Yer Abraham was, I am.”
Moffatt New Testament
“Truly, truly I tell you,” said Jesus, “I have existed before Abraham was born.”
Montgomery New Testament
“In solemn truth I tell you,” answered Jesus, “that before Abraham came into existence, I am.”
NET Bible
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!”
New Heart English Bible
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.”
Noyes New Testament
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly do I say to you, From before Abraham was, I have been.
Sawyer New Testament
Jesus said to them, I tell you most truly, that before Abraham existed, I am.
The Emphasized Bible
Jesus said unto them – Verily, verily, I say unto you: Before, Abraham, came into existence, I, am.
Thomas Haweis New Testament
Jesus said unto them, Before Abraham had a being, I Am.
Twentieth Century New Testament
“In truth I tell you,” replied Jesus, “before Abraham existed I was.”
Webster
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Weymouth New Testament
“In most solemn truth,” answered Jesus, “I tell you that before Abraham came into existence, I am.”
Williams New Testament
Then Jesus said to them, “I most solemnly say to you, I existed before Abraham was born.”
World English Bible
Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.”
Worrell New Testament
Jesus said to them, “Verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham existed, I am.”
Worsley New Testament
Jesus said unto them, Before Abraham was, I am.
Youngs Literal Translation
Jesus said to them, ‘Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming — I am;’
Just translation no words of mine. God bless
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