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Ed, WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT IF AT SOME POINT IN THIS THREAD, you created an actual case or argument for the holy spirit being god.
(like, list the scriptures you think prove it and give a little explanation below each scripture)
Quote (david @ Feb. 29 2012,11:22) Quote So, God IS a spirit.–The Bible.
And, God's finger is a part of him (and not him) much like your finger is a part of you.Hi David,
God is Spirit. (John 4:24)
God is Holy. (Lev. 11:45)
HolySpirit is God. (Acts 5:3-4)You can only put words like that together if they have actual scriptures backing them up. Acts 5:3-4 doesn't say the holy spirit is god.
Jesus was gods messenger (same word as angel)
Jesus is the chief messenger (being called the very “word” of god.)
Jesus is the arch angel.Jesus is also a spirit.
Jesus is also holy
Conclusion?The faithful angels are spirits
They are holy (a word that means clean)
Hence?
Hi David,
You still hold the Jesus angel theory?
AmazingQuote NOW PLEASE ANSWER Heb.12:9; OK? ED, THIS IS MY ANSWER. MAKE A NOTE OF IT. COPY IT DOWN. MARK THIS PAGE. I CAN'T KEEP SAYING THIS:
Ed, I don't think you understand that the word spirit is used in a great variety of ways in the Bible. All those different ways have commonalities, but they are different ways: wind, breath, spirit beings, holy spirit, etc.
The REST OF THE BIBLE shows us that “God's” holy spirit is something God possesses. Much like I possess a finger that I use to do what I want it to do, God too possesses HIS holy spirit, the spirit “of” God, “God's” holy spirit.
So:
“A” certainly doesn't fit, unless you are prone to think of your finger as “you.” I guess, in the same sense that your finger is “you,” the holy spirit is (“of”) God. (I inserted the “of” because that is how everyone else thinks of this,)
If you think your finger is “you” and not a “part of you,” then so be it. But no one else thinks like that. The EXPERIMENT I requested you to do WILL UNQUESTIONABLY PROVE THIS TO YOURSELF.
So, “A” doesn't fit, unless you think very oddly, and don't use normal speaking, that most people use.Does “B” make sense? NO.
If the holy spirit is the spirit “of” God, just like my finger is the finger “of” me, then it is surreal or bizarre to think that he is the father of something that is a part of himself. It's like saying that he is the father of his own strength, or the Father of his own power, or the Father of his own love. (I'm not saying the holy spirit is these things, but I'm using examples.)
“God IS love.” Love is a part of him. And in this scripture it even says he “is” love. Of course, it is something he manifests to the ultimate degree. But, would we ever say he is the Father of his own love? His love is a part of who he is. He is not the Father of something that is a part of him, any more than I am the Father of my own heart. It is a part of me.SO, B IS OUT AS WELL.
SO, what is the answer?
Is God the Father of his Finger? Ridiculous.
Is God his Finger? Ridiculous.When it says he is the Father of spirits, (as opposed to earthly fathers, who have earthly sons) isn't it referring to spirit creation, spirit beings, angels, the heavenly multitude?
It isn't referring to something that is a part of himself. And it isn't referring to himself, as though he were the father of himself.When we think of “spirits” (plural) we don't generally think of the holy spirit, as if there were many or as if it was part of a group of more spirits. When it says he is the Father of spirits, it is talking about “spirits,” the heavenly angels, whom he is Father of.
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2010,20:51) Deut.6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: YHVH GOD is One!
“FATHER:The Word” known in us believers of “HolySpirit“!Luke 8:5…11 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side;
and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock;
and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold.
And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said,
Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others
in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word“ of God.Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(TheSeed “IS” HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force,
to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.Psalm 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD(HolySpirit) sitteth King for ever. (Rev.19:11-19)
Psalm 10:16 The LORD(HolySpirit) is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.MaL.2:10 Have we not all one father(HolySpirit)? hath not one God(HolySpirit) created us?
why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?1Cor.8:6 But to us there is but “one” “God,the Father”(HolySpirit), of whom are all things,
and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him(HolySpirit).
Eph.4:6 One God(HolySpirit) and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Above all: (AKJV Psalm 83:18)
Through all: (AKJV Gal.4:5-7)
In us all: (AKJV Eph.4:6)Eph.2:12-15 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;Luke 20:9-18 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard,
and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. And at the season he sent a servant
to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him
when they see him. But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir:
come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen,
and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. And he beheld them, and said,
What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.Rev.16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.1Cor.1:17-23 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;The ONLY rule I want us all to follow is: ONLY one question per Post.
If we follow that rule will all learn a lot from each other; OK everybody?
When more than one question is asked: Invariably the question we want answered most, doesn't get addressed!God bless you ALL…
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
“Witnessing” (AKJV Joshua 22:34) to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd,
I have to wonder why people have a problem with referring to the one true God as the Holy Spirit. Of course, the reason being, that they have not been taught.
God is holy I Peter 1:16
“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
God is spirit. John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
God is holy spirit.
More precisely, God is the Holy Spirit.
God refers himself by many different names/titles.
God, Father, rock, high tower, shepherd, almighty, Lord, Lord that heals, Lord that sees, Lord our banner, buckler, exceeding great reward……..
I, for one, do not find it difficult to comprehend that with all those names/titles in the OT, that God would choose to reveal another name/title in the NT
Like say, the Holy Spirit?
God has given to us of His spirit. I John 4:13
“Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.”
thus, spirit also refers to the gift of holy spirit which gives us the opportunity to become partakers of H
is divine nature. II Peter 1:3-4“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”Acts 11:16-17
“Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?”Just like Jesus Christ was partaker of His divine nature.
Jesus Christ showed us how to be partakers of His divine nature.
How? by taking God at his word.
barley
Hi,
We KNOW we dwell in his because he has given us of His Spirit.
The evidence must be plain.
Knowledge?Hi all,
Gen.1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 the earth was without form, and void; and darkness on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Was the Spirit of God created in the beginning?
Hi Nick,
Jn.5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. ye has neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit. He poured out this which you now see and hear.
………Peace.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,10:21) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 28 2012,02:46) Scenarios that illustrate YOUR belief
DO NOT PROVE YOUR BELIEF! Get real!Is this SOOO hard for you to understand?
I have understood your belief from the getgo.
Produce some real evidence, not fairytale stories!
Are not all the times the Holy Spirit is called “the Spirit OF God” enough, Ed?
If scripture said “Spirit OF God” only once, it would be enough proof to support what David has been telling you. But it says it a hundred times. How much proof do you need?
Ed, is “the wrath of God” God Himself? Is “the love of God” God Himself? Is “the angel of God” God Himself? Is “the Son of God” God Himself?
You know all these things are not God, but things God POSSESSES. You know this simply because of the word “OF” in many cases. Why is it that your brain stops working properly when it comes to the “the Holy Spirit OF God”?
Hi Mike, what if the moon was made of cheese?(117)”Spirit of God” = “God The Father”(117)
It was YOU that has discovered “Spirit of God” is used EXACTLY 26 times.
Which is “evidence”, not fairtail stories, providing PROOF the “HolySpirit” is God!(26)יהוה = “GOD”(26)
Fact #1. GOD's NAME, [יהוה], Theomatically matching “GOD”=26!
Fact #2. The Short Form of God's Name, [יה], is pronounced “YÄ”=26.
Fact #3. Man being created in YHVH's Image is first mentioned in Gen.1:26.
Fact #4. “GOD”=26: matches the number of letters in the English alphabet, 26.
Fact #5. “God's”, the possessive form of GOD, the number of times written is 26.
Fact #6. “Spirit of God”, the possessive phrase, the number of times written is 26.God's Signature
Proof of God=117
GOD(26) → The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74) → The LORD JEHOVAH(151)יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Feb. 29 2012,11:11) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 28 2012,19:28) Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2012,16:15) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,18:21) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,17:44) Hi David,
Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which
corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much
rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?A. The “Father of Spirits” is the “HolySpirit”.
B. The HolySpirit is one of the “spirits”(?) that the Father of Spirits is the father of.
C. The HolySpirit doesn't apply(?) to Heb.12:9.
Are you Not claiming that The HolySpirit doesn't apply(?) to Heb.12:9.
Certainly I have made the point that “A” and “B” are the ONLY two possibilities.If you suggest “C” is a possibility, then what evidence do you have to support this claim?
Do you still not understand my point? WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM OF “C”?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Jacket,Will you please address this post?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ARGUMENT:1. THE WAY PEOPLE SPEAK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE A PART OF OTHERS (THEY SPEAK AS IF THE PART OF THEM WAS THEM):
YOUR EXAMPLE:
“If a person is missing and the cops are are looking
for a dead body in a vacant lot near their house.If a cop sees a “finger” sticking up out of the dirt,
will they not shout I found him over here?”IN THIS EXAMPLE, WE SEE THAT THE FINGER, WHICH IS PART OF THE PERSON IS SPOKEN OF AS BEING THE PERSON. “I FOUND HIM,” WHEN THEY FOUND THE FINGER, WHICH OF COURSE REPRESENTS HIM.
2. IN SCRIPTURE, GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT IS REPEATEDLY SPOKEN OF IN A WAY THAT SHOWS IT IS “OF” HIM, A PART OF HIM…HIS FINGER FOR EXAMPLE.
Elbow, these are the two lines of evidence I have shown you many times. I'm not totally certain, but it seems you understand the first line of reasoning. I'm absolutely certain you use such types of phrases in every day language, since virtually everyone does.
(And Elbow, since you have said that your elbow IS you, it should not bother you that I call “you” this if this indeed is what “you” are. For me, my elbow is simply A PART OF me.)
david
Hi David,This post has NOTHING to do with my quote.
Will you please address my quote?
Why are you dodging it?You must keep Heb.12:9 and Acts5:3-4 as separate
issues to discuss; OK? You quoted Heb.12:9 here!DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE FOR “C” OR DO YOU ACCEPT “A”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
If scripture (gods holy spirit being spoken of possessively 100 times) is NOT evidence, as you say, and if you do not understand common grade 4 English (the way you yourself speak about things that you possess) then apparently I have no evidence you will accept…other than the whole of scripture which speaks of the holy spirit in a way that doesn't allow for it to be “god.”But if you want to only focus on this scripture and we are not allowed to look at the whole of scripture and if you do not understand “of” or how it is “Gods” holy spirit, HIS finger, and if you really don't understand that people say things like “I kissed Ed” and “I kissed eds lips,” that it is plain that your lips stand for or represent you, as they are part of you, then there is no hope for you to understand this.
I have repeatedly asked for you to present an actual argument for your case. I haven't looked at the next couple pages, but can only imagine you have not done this. Why?
Hi David,So you suggest “C” then, with NO evidence;
VERY WEAK, VERY WEAK INDEED!
See my previous post.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Feb. 29 2012,11:17) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 28 2012,19:46) Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2012,16:24) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 28 2012,14:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2012,10:06) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2012,20:30) Hi David, My finger is me, my elbow is me, my spirit is me.
See the words I bolded, Ed? Those are English words that indicate POSSESSION – just like the English word “OF”.The fact that it is YOUR finger shows that it is not you, but something you POSSESS. (You could also call it “the finger OF Ed”, which would convey the same meaning.)
Hi Mike,Why do you play word games to support your 'theories'? (Acts 18:15)
God bless
Ed J
Ed, I really really really really fail to understand how these are word games.This is precisely and exactly what we are discussing.
If you think that your Elbow IS you, and not a part “of” you, then I really think we should begin with that thought.
If you don't think that idea is weird, I want you to go around telling everyone that your elbow is not a part of you, but that it is you. (Notice the expression on their faces. Is it confusion, a smile, a smirk, what?)
Say to them: “My elbow is not a part of me. It is me.”
Hi David / Mike, I will speak plainly to you both here…Scenarios that illustrate YOUR belief
DO NOT PROVE YOUR BELIEF! Get real!Is this SOOO hard for you to understand?
I have understood your belief from the getgo.
Produce some real evidence, not fairytale stories!I produce Scriptures that we can discuss,
you have chosen word games that are USELESS!
Like a car spinning its tires on ice trying to get somewhere.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, I want to provide you with the evidence for your misunderstanding of COMMON LANGUAGE USAGE.I gave you an experiment that will show you through others what I mean:
“If you don't think that idea is weird, I want you to go around telling everyone that your elbow is not a part of you, but that it is you. (Notice the expression on their faces. Is it confusion, a smile, a smirk, what?)”
This will at the very least show you that others, everyone else most likely, disagrees with you.
Hi David,Here's another FACT for you to dismiss,
Like you dismiss Acts 5:3-4 in favor of
'the watchtower society's' teaching…My finger contains my entire DNA code,
which is how I was made into a human.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Feb. 29 2012,11:24) Ed, WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT IF AT SOME POINT IN THIS THREAD, you created an actual case or argument for the holy spirit being god. (like, list the scriptures you think prove it and give a little explanation below each scripture)
Hi David,You said you wanted to talk about them one at a time; did you not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,11:26) Quote (david @ Feb. 29 2012,11:22) Quote
Hi David,God is Spirit. (John 4:24)
God is Holy. (Lev. 11:45)
HolySpirit is God. (Acts 5:3-4)You can only put words like that together if they have actual scriptures backing them up. Acts 5:3-4 doesn't say the holy spirit is god.
Jesus was gods messenger (same word as angel)
Jesus is the chief messenger (being called the very “word” of god.)
Jesus is the arch angel.Jesus is also a spirit.
Jesus is also holy
Conclusion?The faithful angels are spirits
They are holy (a word that means clean)
Hence?
Hi David,
You still hold the Jesus angel theory?
Amazing
Hi Nick, false theology always requires the ignoring certain of Scripture. Like this one for example…Heb 1:4-8 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him
a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all
the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,13:34) Hi,
The highest heaven cannot contain God [1King 8.27, 2Chr 2.6, 2Chr 6.18]
Hi Nick,More evidence of the “HolySpirit” being God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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