The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ July 25 2010,21:21)

The Holy Spirit is the bridge to God within. It is the part of your mind—the part of your Spirit—that is joined with the Mind of God. The Holy Spirit is the voice for God and acts as a reminder of Gods love. God loves His children so much that He wanted them to always know that they are safe, they are loved, and they are whole. God gave this voice and this voice is now a part of them. It is the eternal perspective of Truth, Love, and Reality. It is the voice of God instilled within and the ever present reminder of the truth of Who and What they are and the Love their Father has for them. Take care.

Hi Karmarie,

Thank you for sharing your view of the “HolySpirit” with us all here.
The “HolySpirit” is indeed that part of God that connects us to Him!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Lightenup]

Quote (theodorej @ July 25 2010,07:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2009,14:37) Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate “being” of the triune God.  I suggest this was not the message of scriptures.  It is never mentioned of the Spirit as being the “third person of the trinity” anywhere in scriptures.   As Michael L. Brown says in Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus,” p. 53: Quote …Is the “Spirit of God” the same as “God”? Yes and no.  The Spirit clearly has personality, since the Holy Spirit instructs the people of Israel and can be grieved or angered. Yet the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God-i.e., God's very Spirit, he is both giving himself as well as giving of himself.  The key is always this: God touches us, teaches us, interacts with us, and empowers us by his Spirit. With that understanding it is very easy to understand why the “Holy Spirit” is not mentioned along with the Father in these following verses since references speaking of the person of the Father would assume that the innermost part of the Father to obviously be included in His person. See below and you will find plenty of scriptures that you would think would mention all “three persons” of the trinity but doesn't: Matt 24:36 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NASU John 5:23 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. NASU John 5:26 26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; NASU John 6:40 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” NASU John 6:46 46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. NASU 1 John 2:23-24 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. NASU 2 John 3 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. NASU 2 John 9 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. NASU Peace and love, Kathi Greetings LU…..With reference to Michael L Brown,just because you get published does not mean your writings are true or factual….The spirit of God is his essense or his whole being….He is spirit…There is no yes and no..God is Spirit and there is no triangulation of his being…BTW I have not read MLBs' book,but if he is wrong about this Iam sure he is wrong about other aspects….

theodorej,
You are correct, just because someone got published doesn't make them right…it doesn't automatically make them wrong either, btw.

About this God is spirit phrase, I read that, in the context it is written, and understand that God is not flesh…He is spirit.  If I say man is flesh does that automatically mean that he has no inner spirit?  No.  If God says that He is spirit, does that automatically mean that He has no inner Spirit?  No.  Spirit is a body type in some contexts.  The resurrected Jesus says that He was not spirit BECAUSE He was flesh and bones.  Obviously, being spirit in that case had to do with not having flesh and bones.  In our limited realm, we do not understand beings without flesh and bones but evidently they exist in the spiritual realm.  One day, we will not be flesh anymore and we will have a heavenly body, a spirit type of body not limited by flesh and bones.

Thanks for 'listening.'

[Lightenup]

Quote (karmarie @ July 25 2010,05:21)

The Holy Spirit is the bridge to God within. It is the part of your mind—the part of your Spirit—that is joined with the Mind of God. The Holy Spirit is the voice for God and acts as a reminder of Gods love. God loves His children so much that He wanted them to always know that they are safe, they are loved, and they are whole. God gave this voice and this voice is now a part of them. It is the eternal perspective of Truth, Love, and Reality. It is the voice of God instilled within and the ever present reminder of the truth of Who and What they are and the Love their Father has for them. Take care.

Hi karamarie,
You are right in what you say and I think Michael Brown says something similar here:

“The key is always this: God touches us, teaches us, interacts with us, and empowers us by his Spirit.”

Only if we can learn better how to receive His touch, His teachings, His interactions, and His empowerment.

Blessings!

[karmarie]

This is how the holy Spirit works

Holy Spirit comes upon a person, they are filled with a quest to search for the truth of the scriptures, they are moved to pray and as they do they feel the Love of God. They are filled with love and compassion for others. They feel moved to give to those who are without. They find gifts and abilities, they feel they are being led,  

And thats just the beginning.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2010,07:26)

Hi ED, If you have tasted the gifts from above why do you not abide in scripture?

Hi Nick,

Where is your evidence? (1Tm.5:19)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Out of your mouth comes mostly numbers.
Teaching about 'lucifer' from one verse is unreliable exegesis.

Find it repeated.[2cor13.1]

[davidbfun]

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2010,11:40)

Quote (davidbfun @ July 06 2010,02:13) Holy Spirit in Hebrew is Ruach HaKodesh and is a female noun so how does “She” become a “Father”? Shalom David-be-fun, First let me say: Welcome to h-net! The same way El-shaddi means “the breasted one” is our heavenly Father. B'Shem YHVH

Hi Ed,

And God is a bird as he takes us under his wings.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2010,12:06)

Quote (davidbfun @ July 23 2010,22:04) Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2010,23:19) Hi Davidbfun, Tell me why the Holy Spirit is not listed in these verses if the Holy Spirit is indeed equally a separate person as the Son and the Father. There is no need to explain gender at this point.  I don't even believe that the Holy Spirit is equally a separate person.  I believe that the Bible has taught us that the spirit of man is the inner person of man.  Therefore I tend to think that the Spirit of God is the inner person of God which uniquely flows from God to wherever God sends it/him. Matt 24:36 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NASU John 5:23 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. NASU John 5:26 26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; NASU John 6:40 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” NASU John 6:46 46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. NASU 1 John 2:23-24 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. NASU 2 John 3 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. NASU 2 John 9 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. NASU Matthew 11:27 NASB 27″All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Especially note that verse Matt 11:27.  The Holy Spirit doesn't know the Son or the Father if indeed the Spirit is a separate person as you say. Hi LU, I will answer one thing at a time.  The absence of something does not negate the existence. (“Why the HS is not listed in these verses…”) I could take the quotes about the HS and ask why God isn't mentioned….does that mean that God doesn't exist? If you don't believe the HS is a separate person, what is it? Your belief: Spirit = inner man Extrapolated:   Spirit = inner God Jesus died and said, “unto your hands, Father I commit my spirit”.  Body into tomb, spirit into Heaven. QUESTIONS: 1-Does the Father have a Body? Is the “Body” God? 2-Does the Father have a Spirit? Is the “Spirit” God? 3-Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the Body? 4-Is the Spirit outside of the Body? 5-Who is God? 6-What are God's traits? Omnipotent? Omnipresent? Perpetual (Always existing)? Omnscient? Has beginning? Has an end? Has mother/father? 7-What do you call “Body”? 8-What do you call “Spirit”? Extra credit: (Not necessary here, just for your own edification.) How do you define God? And each essence of Him? Not characteristics (kind, loving, jealous,etc)….or actions (creation, fathering, etc)   Without definitions how do we discuss anything logically? Once there is an understanding I could then address the Bible verses in depth.  Without an understanding it is just opinions. I tried to define God and give meaning to God in a thread called God vs God, but no one wanted to listen or think.   Bible says that God is spirit. Bible says that God has a body. How do YOU reconcile these two concepts? I gave a lengthy response in “The son begotten when” Thread that might help in your other questions. I “think” that I could debate anyone's concept of God with short questions to nullify that belief; if I knew their basis (definitions) or terms for their beliefs. I don't think anyone could do the same for mine. For example, those that believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is “God, the son” couldn't answer these first questions…1-Is Jesus the son of God? 2-Is Jesus, God, the son?  The first question proves that he is not God because it says he came from God and is His son.  The second says that he is God and therefore is not a son. He cannot be BOTH.  God & son. Without even opening the Bible. The same could be done with your God, what is it? The problem: No one wants to make a “concrete” definition of their God, and how YHVH and Holy Spirit fit into their definitiion.  While talking they leap back and forth like Jesus is FULLY GOD and the FULLY MAN for trinitarians. Those questions above are what I need to understand which God the person believes in….and IF their Holy Spirit is a separate person or…… How many “Gods” are there?  I'll tell you when I get the responses. Lovingly, David PS In order to answer all of your Bible quotes we need to define “God”. Hi David, Wow, let's contemplate God here.  No small task you ask of me but at the same time, maybe really rather simple. Your questions: Quote UESTIONS: 1-Does the Father have a Body? Is the “Body” God? 2-Does the Father have a Spirit? Is the “Spirit” God? 3-Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the Body? 4-Is the Spirit outside of the Body? 5-Who is God? 6-What are God's traits? Omnipotent? Omnipresent? Perpetual (Always existing)? Omnscient? Has beginning? Has an end? Has mother/father? 7-What do you call “Body”? 8-What do you call “Spirit”? Extra credit: (Not necessary here, just for your own edification.) How do you define God? And each essence of Him? Not characteristics (kind, loving, jealous,etc)….or actions (creation, fathering, etc) #1 Does the Father have a body?  From what I can tell yes but it is not flesh, it is a spirit body. Is the 'body' God? The body is a part of God. #2 Does the Father have a Spirit? Yes, the Spirit is a part of God. #3. Is the Spirit separate or a part of the Father, inside of the body?  The Spirit is a part of the Father as the inner person of the Father. #4. Is the Spirit outside of the body? The Spirit of God is unique in that it can be within the Father and at the same time be sent out of the Father. #5. Who is God?  The highest form of being that is the highest expression of goodness, love, power, and wisdom, truth and grace and holiness…able to do anything He wills to do. #6. What are God's traits?  I do not use the terms omnipotent even though I believe He is the most powerful of any being.  Nor can I say omnipresent although if any being c an be everwhere all at once, it would be Him. Perpetual?  Yes, I would say that the Most High God would have to have always existed as a living being but that He could also reproduce one exactly like Himself that perhaps always existed in a dormant stage within the Father and during eternity was brought out of the dormant stage and given life.  Like reproduces like…God reproduces God.  Omniscient?  Again I don't use that term but God knows all that could possibly be known.  He knows more than anyone could possibly know.  Has a beginning? No beginning for the person of the Father but a beginning for the Son as a SEPARATE person but not as His own substance, for His own substance was likely always within the Father.  Has an end?  God is immortal but can lay down His life if He so chooses.  Has a mother/father?  God is not male or female nor does a reproduction of God come from a male or female but another of His kind.  God is complete within Himself but takes on the male pronoun. #7 What do you call 'body?' That which contains the spirit and soul. #8 What do you call 'spirit?' The inner person in some contexts, the body type in other contexts. Extra credit How do you define God?  The highest type of being above any other type of being. And each essence of Him? Body, Soul and Spirit. There you go David.  My thought out response but I must add a disclaimer…this is an imperfect response by someone that cannot know these answers to their fullest and can only truely and completely be answered by God Himself. Sincerely, Kathi

Ok David,
Do I get the extra credit point?

[Ed J]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,21:02)

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2010,11:40) Quote (davidbfun @ July 06 2010,02:13) Holy Spirit in Hebrew is Ruach HaKodesh and is a female noun so how does “She” become a “Father”? Shalom David-be-fun, First let me say: Welcome to h-net! The same way El-shaddi means “the breasted one” is our heavenly Father. B'Shem YHVH Hi Ed, And God is a bird as he takes us under his wings.

Hi David,

Psalm 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust…
Psalm 68:13 Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as (Click Here)
the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Lightenup]

Bump for Davidbfun

[david]

Quote

Hi LU, I will answer one thing at a time. The absence of something does not negate the existence. (“Why the HS is not listed in these verses…”) I could take the quotes about the HS and ask why God isn't mentioned….does that mean that God doesn't exist?

–DBFun

Hi David,
The argument is not whether the holy spirit exists. No one has suggested that. Her argument was that the holy spirit seems to be not mentioned when Jehovah and Jesus are mentioned together. (It is often missing.)

SECONDARY POSITION IN THE SCRIPTURES / GREETINGS…
How could the holy spirit be equal with Jehovah the Father when it is given a secondary position in the Scriptures? Above we saw that it is missing from the visions of Jehovah and his Son in heaven. But it is somehow neglected to be mentioned in several other places by the divinely inspired Bible writers.
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3
Where is the holy spirit in this? While speaking of the grand life saving importance of taking in knowledge, where is the mention of this supposed third person of the trinity?

The apostle Paul in the opening of his letters often used expressions like this: “May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 1:7) This is Paul’s standard greeting in his letters to the congregations, as well as individuals to whom he wrote.
In Romans through Thessalonians, the Apostle Paul sends personal greetings from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The holy spirit is always left out of these greetings— an unbelievable and unexplainable oversight if it were indeed a person or entity coequal with God the Father and Christ!
1 CORINTHIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
2 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
GALATIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
EPHESIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
PHILIPPIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
COLOSSIANS 1:2
“to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·lośsae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
1 TIMOTHY 1:2
“to Timothy, a genuine child in the faith: May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
2 TIMOTHY 1:2
“May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
TITUS 1:4
“May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”

In each of his greetings he never mentions the holy spirit. Why did he not mention the holy spirit as a person? Because Paul knew nothing of the trinity.
James, Peter, and John used similar phrases in the introduction to their letters where they likewise do not mention the holy spirit. Why? Because they were not Trinitarians either.

James said he was “a slave of God and of [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” (James 1:1) John also said: “this sharing of ours is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.” (I John 1:3) Notice Peter’s introduction: “May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to YOU by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,” (2 Pet 1:2)
But if the Spirit were an individual co-equal with the Father and the Son, this consistent omission is incomprehensible!
In fact, it would have been insubordination by the apostles at the highest level. In modern terms, this would be like recognizing three people who own and run a business, but their employees in the field would only give references to two of them when writing to headquarters. This would he unthinkable.
But if there were only two “presidents” who used a powerful force to accomplish their tasks, then it could be understood why the power itself was not addressed in any salutations from or to their underlings. This is precisely the way it was with the apostles in their letters to the various congregations. The apostles consistently left out the holy spirit in their salutations in their letters to Christians.
If “the holy spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then why does “He” not send “His” personal greetings as well?
The only good answer is that there is no such person, for as an inspired writer of Scripture, Paul was on intimate terms with God and his Son, Jesus. If there were a third person involved, wouldn’t Paul have surely known about it and included “Him” in his greetings to the congregations?
When Paul does include additional persons in his greetings, salutations and adjurations, he names “the elect angels,” not “the holy spirit” (1 Tim. 5:21; cp. Luke 9:26 and Rev. 3:5). How interesting.
In all of Paul's writings, only in 2 Corinthians 13:14 is the holy spirit mentioned along with the Father and Christ, and there only in connection with the “fellowship of the Holy Spirit” (NIV)—not in any sort of theological statement on the nature of God. God's Spirit, says Paul, is the unifying agent that brings us together in godly, righteous fellowship, not only with one another but with the Father and Son. Yet here, too, God's Spirit is not spoken of as a person. Notice that our fellowship is of the Holy Spirit, not with the holy spirit. 1 John 1:3 tells us, “truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.” The Holy Spirit is not mentioned.
Paul states that “there is one God, the Father, . . . and one Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (1 Corinthians 8:6). He makes no mention of the holy spirit as a divine person.

****
If the holy spirit were a person and equal with Jehovah and Jesus, he must feel neglected, and wonder why he is left out. Does he not also send his greeting?

[Ed J]

Hi David,

I have shown 'you' where The Scriptures document
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ
(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35) (Click Here)

Yet you continue refer to Him as an 'it'? Have you no respect for HIM?
N.W.T. John 16:7 …but if I go my way, I will send [[[HIM]]] unto you.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit (speaketh against the Holy Spirit), it
shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (Mt.12:32)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Arnold]

Why is it, that if you sin against the Father or the Son, you can be forgiven? but if you sin against the Holy Spirit, you can not be forgiven?
This is why?

Hbr 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The heavenly gift is the Holy Spirit who teaches you in all understanding and righteousness. If, after receiving the Holy Spirit, you then turn from the truth, you are like Peter puts it.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Why would it be better for them not knowing the way of righteousness? Because in the millennium, when Satan is put away, the learning of the truth will be much easier, and the temptations fewer.

Georg

[GeneBalthrop]

To All………The Holy Spirit (IS) an (IT) , (IT) is the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of the TRUTH one opf the seven spirit (intellects) of GOD, (IT) gives us awareness of Truth, Now (IF) you speak against (IT) (the spirit of truth) you can NOT be forgiven now or in time to come, why because truth (IS) truth it doesn't change never. The Pharisees were committing an unpardonable sin by speaking out against the Spirit of Truth and equating (IT) with Satan. Does that means they themselves will never be forgiven their sins (NO), it means that (particular) state their in can not be forgiven or overlooked, they must come to a point where they must (CHANGE) their thinking and accept the truth, because as long as they are in error by Speaking against the spirit of truth it is not forgiven them, it Can't BE.

Because they who are preventing the Truth from advancing will have to be dealt with, they (MUST) Change because the truth will not Change ever so Blasphemy against it (spirit of truth) will never be forgiven , Because blasphemy of the (TRUTH) is a state of existence and it is against the truth it can not be forgiven (ever). The Person (MUST) Change, the (TRUTH) will (Never) Change now or in the future. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………….gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 01 2010,01:12)

To All………The Holy Spirit (IS) an (IT) , (IT) is the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of the TRUTH one opf the seven spirit (intellects) of GOD,  (IT) gives us awareness of Truth, Now (IF) you  speak against (IT) (the spirit of truth) you can NOT be forgiven now or in time to come, why because truth (IS) truth it doesn't change never.  The Pharisees were committing an unpardonable sin by speaking out against the Spirit of Truth and equating (IT) with Satan.  Does that means they themselves will never be forgiven their sins (NO), it means that (particular) state their in can not be forgiven or overlooked, they must come to a point where they must (CHANGE) their thinking and accept the truth, because as long as they are in error by Speaking against the spirit of truth it is not forgiven them, it Can't BE. Because they who are preventing the Truth from  advancing will have to be dealt with, they (MUST) Change because the truth will not Change ever so Blasphemy against it (spirit of truth) will never be forgiven , Because blasphemy of the (TRUTH) is a state of existence and it is against the truth it can not be forgiven (ever).  The Person (MUST) Change, the (TRUTH) will (Never) Change now or in the future.  IMO peace and love to you all……………………….gene

Hi Gene,

                One God Spirit=151 (Click Here)

It's not respectful (of 'you') to call “Our YHVH” an it?
Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are
called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

ED j……..Don't need to go there, I know GOD is Spirit, in fact he consists of SEVEN SPIRITS we are told. These are SEVEN DISTINCT (INTELLECTS) and they go to and for through out all the earth. These make GOD omnipresent in His creation. God is pure spirit he does not have a body he exists in his creation. Jesus said He gave proverbs, (fictitious illustrations), to explain the Father , but a time will come when he would explain the Father clearly to us. GOD is Not a person as you and I are , he creates and lives (IN) His creation He is the very life of the creation and is (IN) every thing that has Life (in) it. God is Pure though and intellect and is the life of all who has life. This life is expressed in words, therefore Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE) Life and SPIRIT. IMO

peace and love……………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 01 2010,01:41)

ED j……..Don't need to go there, I know GOD is Spirit, in fact he consists of SEVEN SPIRITS  we are told. These are SEVEN DISTINCT (INTELLECTS) and they go to and for through out  all the earth. peace and love……………………..gene

Hi Gene,

2Chron.16:9: For the (seven) eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth,
to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him…

Zech.3:9: For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua(Jesus);
upon one stone (Rev.2:17) seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving
thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Psalm 118:24 This is the day the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. (Luke 21:34-36)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

ED J………Yes so what your Point?

peace and love……………………gene

[davidbfun]

Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,00:55)

Quote Hi LU, I will answer one thing at a time.  The absence of something does not negate the existence. (“Why the HS is not listed in these verses…”) I could take the quotes about the HS and ask why God isn't mentioned….does that mean that God doesn't exist? –DBFun Hi David, The argument is not whether the holy spirit exists.  No one has suggested that.  Her argument was that the holy spirit seems to be not mentioned when Jehovah and Jesus are mentioned together.  (It is often missing.) SECONDARY POSITION IN THE SCRIPTURES / GREETINGS… How could the holy spirit be equal with Jehovah the Father when it is given a secondary position in the Scriptures?  Above we saw that it is missing from the visions of Jehovah and his Son in heaven.  But it is somehow neglected to be mentioned in several other places by the divinely inspired Bible writers. “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3 Where is the holy spirit in this?  While speaking of the grand life saving importance of taking in knowledge, where is the mention of this supposed third person of the trinity? The apostle Paul in the opening of his letters often used expressions like this: “May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 1:7) This is Paul’s standard greeting in his letters to the congregations, as well as individuals to whom he wrote.   In Romans through Thessalonians, the Apostle Paul sends personal greetings from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The holy spirit is always left out of these greetings— an unbelievable and unexplainable oversight if it were indeed a person or entity coequal with God the Father and Christ! 1 CORINTHIANS 1:3 “May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 CORINTHIANS 1:2 “May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” GALATIANS 1:3 “May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” EPHESIANS 1:2 “May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” PHILIPPIANS 1:2 “May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” COLOSSIANS 1:2 “to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·lośsae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.” 1 TIMOTHY 1:2 “to Timothy, a genuine child in the faith: May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.” 2 TIMOTHY 1:2 “May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.” TITUS 1:4 “May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.” In each of his greetings he never mentions the holy spirit.  Why did he not mention the holy spirit as a person? Because Paul knew nothing of the trinity. James, Peter, and John used similar phrases in the introduction to their letters where they likewise do not mention the holy spirit.  Why? Because they were not Trinitarians either. James said he was “a slave of God and of [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” (James 1:1) John also said: “this sharing of ours is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.”  (I John 1:3)  Notice Peter’s introduction: “May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to YOU by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,” (2 Pet 1:2)   But if the Spirit were an individual co-equal with the Father and the Son, this consistent omission is incomprehensible! In fact, it would have been insubordination by the apostles at the highest level. In modern terms, this would be like recognizing three people who own and run a business, but their employees in the field would only give references to two of them when writing to headquarters. This would he unthinkable. But if there were only two “presidents” who used a powerful force to accomplish their tasks, then it could be understood why the power itself was not addressed in any salutations from or to their underlings. This is precisely the way it was with the apostles in their letters to the various congregations. The apostles consistently left out the holy spirit in their salutations in their letters to Christians. If “the holy spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then why does “He” not send “His” personal greetings as well? The only good answer is that there is no such person, for as an inspired writer of Scripture, Paul was on intimate terms with God and his Son, Jesus. If there were a third person involved, wouldn’t Paul have surely known about it and included “Him” in his greetings to the congregations? When Paul does include additional persons in his greetings, salutations and adjurations, he names “the elect angels,” not “the holy spirit” (1 Tim. 5:21; cp. Luke 9:26 and Rev. 3:5).  How interesting. In all of Paul's writings, only in 2 Corinthians 13:14 is the holy spirit mentioned along with the Father and Christ, and there only in connection with the “fellowship of the Holy Spirit” (NIV)—not in any sort of theological statement on the nature of God. God's Spirit, says Paul, is the unifying agent that brings us together in godly, righteous fellowship, not only with one another but with the Father and Son.  Yet here, too, God's Spirit is not spoken of as a person. Notice that our fellowship is of the Holy Spirit, not with the holy spirit. 1 John 1:3 tells us, “truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.” The Holy Spirit is not mentioned. Paul states that “there is one God, the Father, . . . and one Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (1 Corinthians 8:6).  He makes no mention of the holy spirit as a divine person. **** If the holy spirit were a person and equal with Jehovah and Jesus, he must feel neglected, and wonder why he is left out.  Does he not also send his greeting?

Hi David,

Three aspects: #1-The Holy Spirit is everywhere.  #2-The Holy Spirit is also inside God, the Father and Jesus. #3-The Holy Spirit is inside each believer.

Why would you expect to address the Holy Spirit separately in either case? She is already included in all things. She is addressed separately when She is doing something.

Occasionally She is in Paul's greetings: Grace (Jesus) Mercy (YHVH) Peace (HS).

The Bible brings glory to God's son.  God's son brings glory to God. The Holy Spirit is how the work gets done.  She is not trying to bring glory unto Herself and is doing everything “Behind the Scenes”.  

The Professor

[davidbfun]

Quote (Arnold @ Aug. 01 2010,03:34)

Why is it, that if you sin against the Father or the Son, you can be forgiven? but if you sin against the Holy Spirit, you can not be forgiven? This is why?  Hbr 6:4   For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,   Hbr 6:5   And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,   Hbr 6:6   If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.   The heavenly gift is the Holy Spirit who teaches you in all understanding and righteousness. If, after receiving the Holy Spirit, you then turn from the truth, you are like Peter puts it. 2Pe 2:20   For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.   2Pe 2:21   For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.   2Pe 2:22   But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.   Why would it be better for them not knowing the way of righteousness? Because in the millennium, when Satan is put away, the learning of the truth will be much easier, and the temptations fewer. Georg

Georg,

You make an excellent point.  

If the Holy Spirit isn't a separate person how could you sin against Her?

In Acts Ananias lied to Her and She was considered to be God.

Is 11:2 shows 7 attributes of her, too.  Galatians lists her gifts like you talk about Georg.

To me, the sin against the Holy Spirit is rejection of Her son.  If you accept Her son, you receive Her, the Holy Spirit (Comforter, Helper, Counselor, Seal of Promise).  You reject Jesus you are condemned, unpardonably.

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