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Quote (david @ June 24 2010,17:28) I asked that we stick to the topic, and you then said: “then stick to the topic,” and you stated what it was. I then asked if you could comment on the subject.
You then quoted Psalm 139:5-12, but you did not explain how that scripture in any way shows that God's holy spirit is God. You highlighted this: “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?”
Perhaps you could explain how this scripture helps your claims. Perhaps you could explain it.
Shalom David,The “HolySpirit” is God (יהוה) and is called JEHOVAH (YHVH) in English.
John 4:24 explicitly states “God is a Spirit” and
Leviticus 11:45 says (in essence) JEHOVAH is Holy.
(Page 58 the third Post from the bottom of the Page)Connecting the dots up for you: JEHOVAH is therefore the “HolySpirit”!
(Substantiated by Post number 4 located on Page 58 as well.)Therefore 139:5-12 should become clear to you it's refering to JEHOVAH.
Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit (thou most Holy)?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence (O JEHOVAH)?
I inserted words to help grasp the “Spiritual” meaning of the text.B'Shem
YHVHQuote (david @ June 24 2010,17:44) Quote Yes; it really is quite simple isn't it: “HolySpirit” is GOD! –Ed
Question: If holy spirit is God, then why is it so often used possesively?
(More than a hundred times the holy spirit is referred to as “the spirit of Jehovah,” “God’s spirit,” “my spirit” etc. All such possessive uses of the holy spirit further argue that it is an instrumentality rather than a separate and distinct person.—Judg. 3:10; Matt. 3:16; Acts 2:18; Phil. 1:19; Ps 51:11; Joel 2:28,29)
If Holy Spirit = God,
then when the Bible speaks of “God's holy spirit” is it speaking of God's “God”? (ex: Eph 4:30)How do you understand such scriptures that speak of God's holy spirit? If you take holy spirit to be God, then do you understand those scriptures to be speaking of God's God?
Hi David,Where are you getting this separate person stuff from?
Certainly not from anything I said?Quote John 4:24 explicitly states “God is a Spirit” and
Leviticus 11:45 says (in essence) JEHOVAH is Holy.
(Page 58 the third Post from the bottom of the Page)Connecting the dots up for you: JEHOVAH is therefore the “HolySpirit”!
I read where you stated this before. I wanted you to repeat it to me before I pointed out the gross error in your logic. I ask that you ask others if your logic is sound here. I assure you Is 1:18, despite believing in the trinity, will not back up your logic.
The problem is,
angels are spirits.
angels are holy.Therefore, angels are holy spirits?
You can't just connect words like that. It is not proof of anything.
It's true that God definitely is “holy.” And it's true that he definitely is a spirit. You can therefore say he is a spirit that's holy or a holy spirit, but God is not “God's holy spirit.”
We must look at how the words “holy spirit” and “God” are used in the bible and how they are used together. God is in possession of “His” “holy spirit.” It is something he owns.
Quote (david @ June 24 2010,17:44) Quote Yes; it really is quite simple isn't it: “HolySpirit” is GOD! –Ed
Question: If holy spirit is God, then why is it so often used possesively?
Hi David,In much the same way your word is with you, and your word is you. (John 1:1 / 2 Cor.5:19)
God is holy
God is a spirit.
Therefore, God is the holy spiritAngels are holy (Deuteronomy 33:2; Jude 14)
Angels are spirits
Therefore, angels are holy spiritsIf the same logic leads to a false conclusion, is the logic sound?
Quote In much the same way your word is with you, and your word is you. (John 1:1 / 2 Cor.5:19) But my “word” isn't me. Would you ever confuse my words with me? Hey look, there's David. No wait, it's actually David's words. Words are something I use, just as God's holy spirit is something he uses.
You can say “I opened the door” or “My arm opened the door,” but either way, your arm is not you….it's a part of you, something you possess.
Quote (david @ June 24 2010,18:02) Quote John 4:24 explicitly states “God is a Spirit” and
Leviticus 11:45 says (in essence) JEHOVAH is Holy.
(Page 58 the third Post from the bottom of the Page)Connecting the dots up for you: JEHOVAH is therefore the “HolySpirit”!
I read where you stated this before. I wanted you to repeat it to me before I pointed out the gross error in your logic. I ask that you ask others if your logic is sound here. I assure you Is 1:18, despite believing in the trinity, will not back up your logic.
The problem is,
angels are spirits.
angels are holy.Therefore, angels are holy spirits?
You can't just connect words like that. It is not proof of anything.
It's true that God definitely is “holy.” And it's true that he definitely is a spirit. You can therefore say he is a spirit that's holy or a holy spirit, but God is not “God's holy spirit.”
We must look at how the words “holy spirit” and “God” are used in the bible and how they are used together. God is in possession of “His” “holy spirit.” It is something he owns.
Hi David,Angels aren't necessary “Holy”(Meaning set apart to JEHOVAH).
Here JEHOVAH is called “Holy”
Leviticus 11:45: For I (JEHOVAH=69) the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall
therefore be holy, for “I Holy”=69.And here JEHOVAH is called “A Spirit”.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.JEHOVAH calls us to be “Holy”, but as Jesus pointed out this CANNOT be done unless one is “Born Again” (John 3:3-5).
Meaning the “HolySpirit” birthed inside of the believer.Quote (david @ June 24 2010,18:10) Quote In much the same way your word is with you, and your word is you. (John 1:1 / 2 Cor.5:19) But my “word” isn't me. Would you ever confuse my words with me? Hey look, there's David. No wait, it's actually David's words. Words are something I use, just as God's holy spirit is something he uses.
Hi David,If your word isn't you, then where is the origin of your word?
You seem to have a considerable amount of trouble connecting the dots; don't you?Psalm 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.Quote John 4:24 explicitly states “God is a Spirit” and
Leviticus 11:45 says (in essence) JEHOVAH is Holy.
(Page 58 the third Post from the bottom of the Page)Connecting the dots up for you: JEHOVAH is therefore the “HolySpirit”!
ed, what does the phrase: “God's holy spirit” mean to you?
QUESTION 3:
If “God” is the “holy spirit” then how do you understand that biblical phrase–“God's holy spirit”?Quote If your word isn't you, then where is the origin of your word?
You seem to have a considerable amount of trouble connecting the dots; don't you?No Ed, I just think logically.
With you, you see patterns everywhere. People find patterns where there are none. They see faces where there are none. Of course, my word originates with me. It comes from me. But a child might also come from me. That doesn't make the child me.God's holy spirit is plainly called “God's finger” in a parallel account.
This wording makes it obvious that God's holy spirit is something he possesses and not God himself.Just as your finger is a part of you, it is not you. It is from you, and a part of you, and is something you use, but it is not you. That's why we say: “Ed” and not just “finger” when referring to you.
Hi David,
What is going on in here. Can you give me a breif summary what the arguements are.
Actually forget it, because i see your debating Nick and Ed j at the same time and thats suicideI went back like 3 pages. and re-read the thread. It seems like you went from argueing about “Whether the bible states that the holy spirit is literally God”
And than it become nonsense of senseless accusations. (which is very funny,bc its like debating twins)
and than back to Angelss where im totally lost about.Im more than willing to finally get into this subject with you,
because i totally owe you this discussion from my very first post.What are the arguements that you want them to answer for?
Ill answer them.Ill start with this david,
1)The Holy Spirit is God,
2) Mankind and Angels give that example, (as you stated idk)
Psalms 139, Who is this spirit?lets clarify.
Quote (david @ June 24 2010,18:21) ed, what does the phrase: “God's holy spirit” mean to you?
Hi David,Read the thread.
Playing by 'your rules'…
Can you show me in The Bible where “God's holy spirit” can be found? .
I haven't been able to find one verse. Could you please show me any verse where this is said?Hi David,
Peering in the windows will not teach you much about our God and His Son.
Come in and meet them in the one Spirit.David,
Though I am convinced your conclusion is correct the logic behind is flawed. Language can be applied in ways that are seemingly not sensible and showing ownership is such I case. The word combo “myself” shows the flaw in your logic since it is a case where I posses me.
Ed though obviously does not know what a spirit is or he would see the flaw in his own argument. A spirit is not the individual or an individual would litterally perish when immersed in water and be reborn as a new individual inhabbiting the same body. As it is we figuratively perish in that we gain a new guiding principle but neverless we are still ourselves.
I wonder what Ed believes the soul is since that is what I believe is our essential self.
Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2010,22:04) David, Though I am convinced your conclusion is correct the logic behind is flawed. Language can be applied in ways that are seemingly not sensible and showing ownership is such I case. The word combo “myself” shows the flaw in your logic since it is a case where I posses me.
Ed though obviously does not know what a spirit is or he would see the flaw in his own argument. A spirit is not the individual or an individual would litterally perish when immersed in water and be reborn as a new individual inhabbiting the same body. As it is we figuratively perish in that we gain a new guiding principle but neverless we are still ourselves.
I wonder what Ed believes the soul is since that is what I believe is our essential self.
Hi Kerwin,You can't reason your way to God, you must be born again. (John 3:3-5)
1Cor.2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man
which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ June 24 2010,22:04) I wonder what Ed believes the soul is since that is what I believe is our essential self.
Hi Kerwin,What would be the purpose in me answering a question
that you already believe you know the answer to?Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2010,22:53) Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2010,22:04) David, Though I am convinced your conclusion is correct the logic behind is flawed. Language can be applied in ways that are seemingly not sensible and showing ownership is such I case. The word combo “myself” shows the flaw in your logic since it is a case where I posses me.
Ed though obviously does not know what a spirit is or he would see the flaw in his own argument. A spirit is not the individual or an individual would litterally perish when immersed in water and be reborn as a new individual inhabbiting the same body. As it is we figuratively perish in that we gain a new guiding principle but neverless we are still ourselves.
I wonder what Ed believes the soul is since that is what I believe is our essential self.
Hi Kerwin,You can't reason your way to God, you must be born again. (John 3:3-5)
1Cor.2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man
which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjHi Kerwin,
You can't reason your way to God, you must be born again. (John 3:3-5)
1Cor.2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man
which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.this answer to Kerwin shows you did not understand that scripture.
Pierre
Quote (david @ June 24 2010,18:08) God is holy
God is a spirit.
Therefore, God is the holy spiritAngels are holy (Deuteronomy 33:2; Jude 14)
Angels are spirits
Therefore, angels are holy spiritsIf the same logic leads to a false conclusion, is the logic sound?
davidsatan is a spirit because he is a angel is he holy? NO
there are many spirits but only one is the true spirit and that is the one that s Holy because it is of God,but everyone who speaks God truths as that spirit ,do you understand this??
so the prophets,Jesus,apostles,and any righteous will possess the holy spirit = what is the true will of God ,wen it talks about the word, but it is the power of God wen it talks about the works of God.
this is why Gods wisdom and power can be seen all over his creation ,but only blind people can not see it.i mean spiritually blind.
Pierre
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