The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

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  • #198669
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 20 2010,07:06)
    “Jehovah” is specifically called “God” 1000 times in scripture.

    I have numerous questions, but I think this is the most obvious:

    Where is the holy spirit called “God”?


    Hi David,

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee,
    and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
    which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #198675
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Oxy,
    In the Spirit you can fellowship with God and His Son.[2 cor13.14, 1jn1.3, 2jn9,]

    So put aside accreted traditions

    #198856
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,18:18)

    Quote (david @ June 20 2010,07:06)
    “Jehovah” is specifically called “God” 1000 times in scripture.

    I have numerous questions, but I think this is the most obvious:

    Where is the holy spirit called “God”?


    Hi David,

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee,
    and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
    which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    For David

    #199522
    david
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,10:52)

    Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,18:18)

    Quote (david @ June 20 2010,07:06)
    “Jehovah” is specifically called “God” 1000 times in scripture.

    I have numerous questions, but I think this is the most obvious:

    Where is the holy spirit called “God”?


    Hi David,

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee,
    and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
    which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    For David


    So, to be clear, my first question Ed, was:

    1.  “Jehovah” is specifically and clearly called “God” about 1000 times in scripture and several more thousand times, He is called “God” but not as clearly.  If the holy spirit, often called God's holy spirit, is “God” then where in scripture is “he” called “God”?

    Your answer was:
    Luke 1:35
    “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Maybe I'm missing something Ed, but could you underline or point out specifically where the holy spirit is called “God” in that scripture? I also checked Mat 1:18,20. Same situation there. In those scriptures, not only is the holy spirit not called “God,” but the word “God” doesn't even exist in those scriptures.

    My question again is simply this: If the holy spirit is “God” then why is it NEVER called “God”? It is plain to me that “Jehovah” is “God” for he is called “God” about 7000 times in scripture, and as I stated, 1000 of those times, he is unquestionably and specifically called “God” as in for example: “Jehovah God,” or “Jehovah the God of” or “Jehovah our God,” etc. Such phrases occur about 1000 times.

    Of course, I have follow up questions (if permitted):
    2. If the holy spirit is NEVER called “God” in the Bible, is it because Jehovah didn't want us to know that the holy spirit was God, or is it because the holy spirit isn't God? Or is there some other reason?

    david

    #199527
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,13:57)

    Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,10:52)

    Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,18:18)

    Quote (david @ June 20 2010,07:06)
    “Jehovah” is specifically called “God” 1000 times in scripture.

    I have numerous questions, but I think this is the most obvious:

    Where is the holy spirit called “God”?


    Hi David,

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee,
    and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
    which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    For David


    So, to be clear, my first question Ed, was:

    1.  “Jehovah” is specifically and clearly called “God” about 1000 times in scripture and several more thousand times, He is called “God” but not as clearly.  If the holy spirit, often called God's holy spirit, is “God” then where in scripture is “he” called “God”?

    Your answer was:
    Luke 1:35
    “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
    therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20)

    Maybe I'm missing something Ed, but could you underline or point out specifically where the holy spirit is called “God” in that scripture?


    Hi David,

    I've used black-embolden to connect the dots together for you.
    Luke 1:35 is connective in it's meaning to Matt.1:18 and Matt.20.
    Luke 1:35 says that Jesus shall be called “The Son of God”,
    Matt.1:18 and Matt.20 say “The HolySpirit” is Jesus' father.

    Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:
    When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came
    together (consummated the marriage), she was found with child of the HolySpirit.

    Matt.1:20: But while he thought on these things, behold,
    the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David,
    fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit.

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199532
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,13:57)
    It is plain to me that “Jehovah” is “God” for he is called “God” about 7000 times in scripture…

    david


    Hi David,

    The is NO coincidences about God!

    YHVH GOD is One=151

    God’s unity of Spirit is seen through prime number counterparts.

    God’s Name (יהוה) is written exactly 6823 times in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts. See how the
    Gematria VALUE of Ιησους Χριστоς=2368 Ē-Ā-Soos Chrĭstŏs (Jesus Christ in Greek)
    resembles the number of times יהוה is used in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts.

    6823 is the 877th prime number in a long list of primes starting with two (2).
    Now this might not seem significant until you realize that the number 877
    is the 151st prime number. This number  shows the “Unity” in Spirit.

    YHVH GOD is One=151

    The LORD JEHOVAH=151
    Jesus Christ=151
    Holy Spirit=151
    LORD of Hosts=151            is uses repeatedly The AKJV Bible

    English Gematria illustrates this “Unity” in “Spirit” perfectly.

                                YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], and
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199534
    david
    Participant

    I get it. So, you believe:

    –The holy spirit is a person, therefore:

    When it says that “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you” you take it to mean that the holy spirit as a person, is Fathering Jesus. Hence, the holy spirit is Jesus Father, and since Jesus Father is God, therefore, the holy spirit is God.

    Two things:

    1. The holy spirit is never directly or clearly called “God” in the Bible, ever. (Jehovah is.)
    2. You assume that the holy spirit must be a person. Since it is called the finger of God, the arm of God, and since it is often called “God's holy spirit” as something he possesses, couldn't God's holy spirit be a part of him, and hence, when it's referring to the holy spirit as begetting Jesus, it is still really God, the Father, using his spirit to carry out his will?

    #199542
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,13:57)
     

    My question again is simply this:  If the holy spirit is “God” then why is [ [ [  it  ] ] ] NEVER called “God”?  

    david


    Hi David,

    The Bible teaches: There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…

    Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
    but unto him that blasphemeth against the HolySpirit [speaketh out against the HolySpirit],
    it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mt.12:32

    He, Him, Her, She and it are all translated from the same Greek word: αυτος autŏs.
    Perhaps this “Bible Truth” has not been taught to you by 'your' your origination?

    If you believe the “HolySpirit”(John 4:24) merely to be an 'it' rather than a “HIM”
    perhaps you should petition your origination to alter John 16:7 in the N.W.T.?

    N.W.T. John 16:7 …but if I do go my way, I will send [ [ [ him ] ] ] unto YOU.
    Perhaps this will have to wait for the 'next' revision; huh?

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199552
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,14:27)
    I get it.  So, you believe:

    –The holy spirit is a person,     therefore:

    When it says that “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you” you take it to mean that the holy spirit as a person, is Fathering Jesus.  Hence, the holy spirit is Jesus Father, and since Jesus Father is God, therefore, the holy spirit is God.

    Two things:

    1.  The holy spirit is never directly or clearly called “God” in the Bible, ever.  (Jehovah is.)
    2.  You assume that the holy spirit must be a person.  Since it is called the finger of God, the arm of God, and since it is often called “God's holy spirit” as something he possesses, couldn't God's holy spirit be a part of him, and hence, when it's referring to the holy spirit as begetting Jesus, it is still really God, the Father, using his spirit to carry out his will?


    Hi David,

                “God Spirit”=117 = 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)

    Leviticus 11:45: For I (JEHOVAH=69) the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall
    therefore be holy, for “I Holy”=69.

    John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit
    and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    God a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

                                YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], and
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199554
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,14:27)
    I get it.  So, you believe:

    –The holy spirit is a person,     therefore:

    When it says that “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you” you take it to mean that the holy spirit as a person, is Fathering Jesus.  Hence, the holy spirit is Jesus Father, and since Jesus Father is God, therefore, the holy spirit is God.

    Two things:

    1.  The holy spirit is never directly or clearly called “God” in the Bible, ever.  (Jehovah is.)
    2.  You assume that the holy spirit must be a person.  Since it is called the finger of God, the arm of God, and since it is often called “God's holy spirit” as something he possesses, couldn't God's holy spirit be a part of him, and hence, when it's referring to the holy spirit as begetting Jesus, it is still really God, the Father, using his spirit to carry out his will?


    david

    do you know what is the holy spirit ?

    you just about have 50 % of the answer in your comment to edj.

    Pierre

    #199556
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi David,
    The Holy Spirit is called God.
    Ps139.7
    Jn14.10
    Jn15.26
    2Cor5.19
    Eph 3.19
    Phil2.13
    etc

    #199564
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,15:18)
    Hi David,
    The Holy Spirit is called God.
    Ps139.7
    Jn14.10
    Jn15.26
    2Cor5.19
    Eph 3.19
    Phil2.13
    etc


    Hi Nick,

    Thanks for standing with me in “The Truth”!
    2 Cor.5:19 reveals something else to us as well!

    2 Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
    and hath committed unto us The Word ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of reconciliation.

    Eph.3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge,
    that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God (The HolySpirit of Truth).
    Eph.4:6: One God and (HolySpirit) Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199565
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Hi David,

    The Bible teaches: There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…

    Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
    but unto him that blasphemeth against the HolySpirit [speaketh out against the HolySpirit],
    it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mt.12:32

    He, Him, Her, She and it are all translated from the same Greek word: αυτος autŏs.
    Perhaps this “Bible Truth” has not been taught to you by 'your' your origination?

    Ed, you said this:
    The Bible teaches: There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…

    Then you quoted a scripture that didn't say that at all.

    Ed, “speaking against the holy spirit” does not equal “rejecting the holy spirit as God.

    Quote
    He, Him, Her, She and it are all translated from the same Greek word: αυτος autŏs.
    Perhaps this “Bible Truth” has not been taught to you by 'your' your origination?

    “It” and “Him” are not exactly the same in Greek.  They come from the same “root” word if that's what you mean.

    Quote
    If you believe the “HolySpirit”(John 4:24) merely to be an 'it' rather than a “HIM”
    perhaps you should petition your origination to alter John 16:7 in the N.W.T.?

    N.W.T. John 16:7 …but if I do go my way, I will send [ [ [ him ] ] ] unto YOU.
    Perhaps this will have to wait for the 'next' revision; huh?

    In John 16:7, we have autov.  (him)
    In many other places, we have auto (it)

    5 seconds on the internet told me that.

    I guess my second question is:
    2. Where does the Bible teach what you say:

    Quote
    The Bible teaches: There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…


    It is certainly not in the scripture you quoted.

    #199567
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Hi David,
    The Holy Spirit is called God.
    Ps139.7
    Jn14.10
    Jn15.26
    2Cor5.19
    Eph 3.19
    Phil2.13
    etc

    I don't think you understood my question Nick.

    “Jehovah” is specifically called “God” 1000 times!  

    All the scriptures you posted are the same:
    PSALM 139:7
    “Where can I go from your spirit, And where can I run away from your face?”

    Where does this scripture say the holy spirit is “God.”  The word “God” isn't even in the scripture.

    I don't think you understand what I was asking. This scripture shows the spirit not to be God, but rather to be something he possesses, (ie: “your spirit.”)

    #199569
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi David,

    If someone is rejecting God, do you believe there is forgiveness for that?

    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #199570
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Ed, you said this:
    The Bible teaches: There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…

    Then you quoted a scripture that didn't say that at all.

    Ed, “speaking against the holy spirit” does not equal “rejecting the holy spirit as God.”

    SO FAR, HERE IS WHAT WE HAVE:

    We thus have no actual instances of the holy spirit being called “God.”

    You mention that “There No forgiveness for rejecting The HolySpirit as GOD…” but again, just like the fact that holy spirit isn't called “God” there is also no scripture that says ANYTHING about rejecting the holy spirit as God!

    #199571
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Hi David,

    If someone is rejecting God, do you believe there is forgiveness for that?

    Ed J

    I don't know.  What do THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY?

    #199573
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Hi ED,
    Is you spirit you?
    The Spirit of God is as the finger of God.[Mt12.Lk11]

    –Nick

    This is Nick's question I found that wasn't actually answered. It is a good question.

    Is your spirit, you?
    Is God's finger, God?

    #199575
    david
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2010,15:42)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,15:18)
    Hi David,
    The Holy Spirit is called God.
    Ps139.7
    Jn14.10
    Jn15.26
    2Cor5.19
    Eph 3.19
    Phil2.13
    etc


    Hi Nick,

    Thanks for standing with me in “The Truth”!
    2 Cor.5:19 reveals something else to us as well!

    2 Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
    and hath committed unto us The Word ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of reconciliation.

    Eph.3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge,
    that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God (The HolySpirit of Truth).
    Eph.4:6: One God and (HolySpirit) Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi Ed.

    I'm not sure what you mean by “truth.”

    Nick said that: “The Holy Spirit is CALLED God.”

    Did he randomly pick scriptures out of the Bible? NONE of them have the holy spirit being called “God.” Your “truth” is not based on scripture.

    #199576
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ June 24 2010,15:54)

    Quote
    Hi David,

    If someone is rejecting God, do you believe there is forgiveness for that?

    Ed J

    I don't know.  What do THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY?


    Hi David,

    Watchtower May 1, 2009, Page 6 First Paragraph and Last Paragraph.

    'However, to gain accurate knowledge of God's personality,
    each individual needs to open God's word, the bible, and examine
    it for himself. Do not passively allow others to mold your thinking.'
    'If you know that the bible really teaches about God, you will avoid being misled'…

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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