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Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,13:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,21:42) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,00:58) So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
You make a valid point, I also believe the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, but as you infer here that doesn't mean it is not true. In fact your point is true for everything I am saying!The scripture you quote says nothing of Angels being in the image of God. So you will have to try another.
Of course as you say just because it is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean it is not true.
The other problem that you have though is the “Us” could not have created anything since YHWH created everything by and through Jesus it is more plausible that Jesus was present and we know the Holy Spirit was!
To further add validity to the text is Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning he has the preeminence over it.
Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature“: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “all things were created by him, and for him: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST”. Col 1:15-17
Blessings WJ
I understand where you are coming from though I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 1:15-17. I believe it is speaking of the new creation and not the old.That is an issue for another day. I did want to mention that I believe angels are merely tools in the hands of God though they have free will. When God command the angels act. For that reason when an angel acts it is God who is acting through them.
kerwinNot once in the NT where Jesus is mentioned as being the one by whom all things were created is the terms “New Creation” mentioned.
So that has to be considered inference on your part, and the term “firstborn” and “through him or by him” gives more credence to Jesus pre-existence especially coupled with John 1:1-3 which speaks of the beginning.
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, “the beginning of the creation of God“; Rev 3:14
The word “beginning” is Strong's G746 – archē which means…
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a) of angels and demons
When you say that Col 1 is speaking of Jesus being the Creator of the “New Creation” it still does not help you cause as an anti-trinitarian…
“And he that sat upon the throne said“, “Behold, I make all things new“. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Rev 21:5
If Jesus is the (beginning) origin, the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader of the “”New Creation” then it is he that is sitting in the throne and that is speaking in Rev 21:5-7.
Blessings WJ
PS, to all, please note the proper way of dialogue and debate. There is no patronizing remarks or accusations or condescending attitudes in the conversation we are having!
Just thougt I would point it out. There is no striving here!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Nothing to support your contention that God is a trinity but you might find polytheism attractive.Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 28 2010,13:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,05:44) Gene Trinitarians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one!
You are talking to the view point of a Modalist and not a Trinitarian.
WJ
Hi WJ,Have you forgotten to respond to my question to you?
I have answerwd your question a second time and reprinted mine for you to answer: “Third Post down from the top…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….4;st=50God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDNo I havn't forgotten and in fact was in the process of responding when I was interupted by your recent accusations!
I will answer you in my time!
I really do not feel like you have answered my questions at all!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,07:02) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 28 2010,13:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,05:44) Gene Trinitarians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one!
You are talking to the view point of a Modalist and not a Trinitarian.
WJ
Hi WJ,Have you forgotten to respond to my question to you?
I have answerwd your question a second time and reprinted mine for you to answer: “Third Post down from the top…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….4;st=50God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDNo I havn't forgotten and in fact was in the process of responding when I was interupted by you
I will answer you in my time!
I really do not feel like you have answered my questions at all!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Thanks, I didn't realize that you weren't finished addressing that other thread. Sor.
Great!
If you rephrase the question more specifically, I will try to answer it for you; OK?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,05:43) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,05:30) TO THE SON He [the Father] says,
” 'You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.' “thinker
Hi Thinker,Where did you pull this verse out of context from,
you have not identified from where it came?
ED J……….Good question i would like to know where he get his scriptures from also. I believe you will find he just puts them together as he goes forcing the text to support His Trinitarian convictions. IMOpeace and love………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 29 2010,05:18) I understand where you are coming from though I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 1:15-17.
I believe it is speaking of the new creation and not the old.
Hi Kerwin,I never heard this view before could you expound on it a bit?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 30 2010,07:02) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 29 2010,05:18) I understand where you are coming from though I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 1:15-17.
I believe it is speaking of the new creation and not the old.
Hi Kerwin,I never heard this view before could you expound on it a bit?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I am thinking of starting a thread on it.Here are a couple of scriptures that touch on it.
2 Corinthians 5:17-19 and Galatians 6:15.
The first one goes into more detail.
kerwin
this scriptures talk about are renewal in the spirit and that we no longer live for ourselves but for others,this is the new creation ,the old one was carnal.2Co 5:11 We know what it means to have respect for the Lord. So we try to help other people to understand it.
What we are is plain to God. I hope it is also plain to your way of thinking.
2Co 5:12 We are not trying to make an appeal to you again. But we are giving you a chance to take pride in us. Then you can answer those who take pride in how people look rather than in what is really in their hearts.
2Co 5:13 Are we out of our minds? That is because we want to serve God. Does what we say make sense? That is because we want to serve you.
2Co 5:14 Christ’s love controls us. We are sure that one person died for everyone. And so everyone died.
2Co 5:15 Christ died for everyone. He died so that those who live should not live for themselves anymore. They should live for Christ. He died for them and was raised again.
2Co 5:16 So from now on we don’t look at anyone the way the world does. At one time we looked at Christ in that way. But we don’t anymore.
2Co 5:17 Anyone who believes in Christ is a new creation. The old is gone! The new has come!
2Co 5:18 It is all from God. He brought us back to himself through Christ’s death on the cross. And he has given us the task of bringing others back to him through Christ.
2Co 5:19 God was bringing the world back to himself through Christ. He did not hold people’s sins against them. God has trusted us with the message that people may be brought back to him.
2Co 5:20 So we are Christ’s official messengers. It is as if God were making his appeal through us. Here is what Christ wants us to beg you to do. Come back to God!
2Co 5:21 Christ didn’t have any sin. But God made him become sin for us. So we can be made right with God because of what Christ has done for us.
2Co 6:1 We work together with God. So we are asking you not to receive God’s grace and then do nothing with it.Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2010,11:47) kerwin
this scriptures talk about are renewal in the spirit and that we no longer live for ourselves but for others,this is the new creation ,the old one was carnal.2Co 5:11 We know what it means to have respect for the Lord. So we try to help other people to understand it.
What we are is plain to God. I hope it is also plain to your way of thinking.
2Co 5:12 We are not trying to make an appeal to you again. But we are giving you a chance to take pride in us. Then you can answer those who take pride in how people look rather than in what is really in their hearts.
2Co 5:13 Are we out of our minds? That is because we want to serve God. Does what we say make sense? That is because we want to serve you.
2Co 5:14 Christ’s love controls us. We are sure that one person died for everyone. And so everyone died.
2Co 5:15 Christ died for everyone. He died so that those who live should not live for themselves anymore. They should live for Christ. He died for them and was raised again.
2Co 5:16 So from now on we don’t look at anyone the way the world does. At one time we looked at Christ in that way. But we don’t anymore.
2Co 5:17 Anyone who believes in Christ is a new creation. The old is gone! The new has come!
2Co 5:18 It is all from God. He brought us back to himself through Christ’s death on the cross. And he has given us the task of bringing others back to him through Christ.
2Co 5:19 God was bringing the world back to himself through Christ. He did not hold people’s sins against them. God has trusted us with the message that people may be brought back to him.
2Co 5:20 So we are Christ’s official messengers. It is as if God were making his appeal through us. Here is what Christ wants us to beg you to do. Come back to God!
2Co 5:21 Christ didn’t have any sin. But God made him become sin for us. So we can be made right with God because of what Christ has done for us.
2Co 6:1 We work together with God. So we are asking you not to receive God’s grace and then do nothing with it.
I am not disagreeing. Those who believe that Jesus preexisted his birth believe he was part of the old creation that became carnal. I am pointing out that the scriptures they believe support their view are sometimes speaking of a new creation.There is more about the new creation in scripture but those two scriptures were meant for a starting point.
hi kerwin
this also talks about our renewal into the new man(creation) according to Gods will,living as per the spirit of truth in ChristGal 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2010,19:44)
WJChrist and man are made in the image of God,but you have stated that it is only Jesus so we will believe you in stead of the scriptures this must be the true way to go .(you would like that don 't you???)
a true christian will never follow men doctrine no matter what.that's the truth.Missrepresentation and a lie!
WJ
why is it missrepresentation WJ it conflics with your views?
??Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2010,19:03) hi kerwin
this also talks about our renewal into the new man(creation)according to Gods will,living as per the spirit of truth in ChristGal 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.
Hi Terraricca,You have it 100%! That is exactly what it is talking about,
the Spiritual regeneration(Born Again). (John 3:3-8)and so is Titus 3:5
2Peter 3:10-13
Romans 14:17
Rev.21:1-5!As a matter of fact it's what the whole book is about!
Making the “HolySpirit” Our Father(Our YHVH=117), as he was Jesus' Father! (Matt.6:10-13)Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2010,16:47) kerwin
this scriptures talk about are renewal in the spirit and that we no longer live for ourselves but for others,this is the new creation ,the old one was carnal.2Co 5:11 We know what it means to have respect for the Lord. So we try to help other people to understand it.
What we are is plain to God. I hope it is also plain to your way of thinking.
2Co 5:12 We are not trying to make an appeal to you again. But we are giving you a chance to take pride in us. Then you can answer those who take pride in how people look rather than in what is really in their hearts.
2Co 5:13 Are we out of our minds? That is because we want to serve God. Does what we say make sense? That is because we want to serve you.
2Co 5:14 Christ’s love controls us. We are sure that one person died for everyone. And so everyone died.
2Co 5:15 Christ died for everyone. He died so that those who live should not live for themselves anymore. They should live for Christ. He died for them and was raised again.
2Co 5:16 So from now on we don’t look at anyone the way the world does. At one time we looked at Christ in that way. But we don’t anymore.
2Co 5:17 Anyone who believes in Christ is a new creation. The old is gone! The new has come!
2Co 5:18 It is all from God. He brought us back to himself through Christ’s death on the cross. And he has given us the task of bringing others back to him through Christ.
2Co 5:19 God was bringing the world back to himself through Christ. He did not hold people’s sins against them. God has trusted us with the message that people may be brought back to him.
2Co 5:20 So we are Christ’s official messengers. It is as if God were making his appeal through us. Here is what Christ wants us to beg you to do. Come back to God!
2Co 5:21 Christ didn’t have any sin. But God made him become sin for us. So we can be made right with God because of what Christ has done for us.
2Co 6:1 We work together with God. So we are asking you not to receive God’s grace and then do nothing with it.
Terraricca……Good Post , What bible are you quoting it out of?Peace and love to you and yours…………gene
Hi ED,
The Holy Spirit is OF GOD.
God manifests in creation AS HIS SPIRIT.
Jesus became the monogenes son BY God's Spirit and we can follow him.But God IS in heaven where we pray to Him.[Mt6]
We do not pray TO His Spirit but the Spirit helps us to pray to God.[[Rom8]We do not worship His Spirit.
We worship HIM in spirit and in truth BY His Spirit.To All,
John:4:24: God(The Father) is a (Holy)Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj
God is a spirit ,that is his nature,he is powerful within is nature,all he gives is holy because he is holy
but it is power that he gives out ,and it is trough that power that Christ was working that we can approach him.Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 31 2010,11:13) edj God is a spirit ,that is his nature,he is powerful within is nature,all he gives is holy because he is holy
but it is power that he gives out ,and it is trough that power that Christ was working that we can approach him.
Hi Terraricca,What makes you think this post adds 'any' clarity?
Ed J
Ed J……….Have you considered that the LORD GOD is implying the LORD (YHWH) is a true GOD. Notice all the scriptures that seem to separate These words. To me the Father is the combination of the SEVEN SPIRIT of GOD, Jesus did say the (FATHER) was (IN) Him and He also said that GOD was a SPIRIT. But there is more to the story, remember When Jesus said I have spoken to you about the Father in Proverbs, but a time will come when i will show you plainly of the FATHER. SO our perceptions of GOD the FATHER may not be accurate. Personally I believe GOD is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) Composing Seven distinct Spirit Attributes, with POWERS, but the sum total of these Seven equal GOD the FATHER, the creative force that created all thing in earth as well as in heaven. I tend to believe that the FATHER is represent in these seven Spirits of GOD . These forces can present themselves as they so chose, Hinze the term (HE EXISTS AS HE Wills to EXISTS) OR I AM THAT (OR WHAT EVER) I AM. these forces act as ONE POWER (LORD) in all creation. There is a mystery involved with understanding of the term GOD. But we are told that in the days of the two witness the Mystery of GOD Should be Known. So perhaps there is more understanding needed. IMO
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