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To ALL……Intellects, the Power of faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands.
Simple and straight forward , Intellect and SPIRIT are the same thing. IMO
love and peace to you all…………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 15 2009,22:18) Kerwin……… The definition is the ability to think and drive abstract thought. Read CT above explanation and understand intellect is your very being, that reasons it is what Spirit is and is (expressed) in word and deeds. Just as there are seven types or aspects of Spirit so it is with intellects, Your intellects are what guides you thoughts they produce the thoughts in your mind they are what SPIRIT is. IMO peace and love………………….gene
I have had the ability to think and perhaps derive abstract though from my mothers womb and certainly did not in any way require a new spirit in order to gain that ability. I also do not see how that ability can be righteous or bring me more in tune with God.Could you please make the connection that I do not seem to be making?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,10:59) G,
So you bray.
But it is not written.
It is written through out scripture.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,02:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,10:59) G,
So you bray.
But it is not written.
It is written through out scripture.
I believe Nick is speaking of Gene's Spirit=Intellect argument.Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD, small and great.
Psalm 11:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of 'Elohim.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,02:50) Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD, small and great.
Psalm 11:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of 'Elohim.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Are you agreeing with Gene? His definition of intellect does not cover either “wisdom” or “knowledge”. That is why I asked him how he defined it.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 15 2009,13:11) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,02:50) Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD, small and great.
Psalm 11:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of 'Elohim.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Are you agreeing with Gene? His definition of intellect does not cover either “wisdom” or “knowledge”. That is why I asked him how he defined it.
Definitions of intellectual on the Web:•of or associated with or requiring the use of the mind; “intellectual problems”; “the triumph of the rational over the animal side of man”
•appealing to or using the intellect; “satire is an intellectual weapon”; “intellectual workers engaged in creative literary or artistic or scientific labor”; “has tremendous intellectual sympathy for oppressed people”; “coldly intellectual”; “sort of the intellectual type”; “intellectual …
•a person who uses the mind creatively
•cerebral: involving intelligence rather than emotions or instinct; “a cerebral approach to the problem”; “cerebral drama”
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn•An intellectual (from the adjective meaning “involving thought and reason”) is a person who uses his or her intelligence and analytical thinking, either in a profession capacity, or for personal reasons.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual•Intellectually – Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectually•means of the mind, so an intellectual is someone who is concerned with things of the mind. Intelligent means clever, and (sometimes) sensible; but intelligible means clear and understandable.
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/WWW/STUDY/Vocab.htmHi CON,
So you would not define the Spirit of God by such pathetically limited human terms would you?Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,12:17) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 15 2009,13:11) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,02:50) Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD, small and great.
Psalm 11:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of 'Elohim.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Are you agreeing with Gene? His definition of intellect does not cover either “wisdom” or “knowledge”. That is why I asked him how he defined it.
Definitions of intellectual on the Web:•of or associated with or requiring the use of the mind; “intellectual problems”; “the triumph of the rational over the animal side of man”
•appealing to or using the intellect; “satire is an intellectual weapon”; “intellectual workers engaged in creative literary or artistic or scientific labor”; “has tremendous intellectual sympathy for oppressed people”; “coldly intellectual”; “sort of the intellectual type”; “intellectual …
•a person who uses the mind creatively
•cerebral: involving intelligence rather than emotions or instinct; “a cerebral approach to the problem”; “cerebral drama”
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn•An intellectual (from the adjective meaning “involving thought and reason”) is a person who uses his or her intelligence and analytical thinking, either in a profession capacity, or for personal reasons.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual•Intellectually – Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectually•means of the mind, so an intellectual is someone who is concerned with things of the mind. Intelligent means clever, and (sometimes) sensible; but intelligible means clear and understandable.
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/WWW/STUDY/Vocab.htm
I am not sure how this is relevant to what I wrote as Gene stated what he defines intellect as. He stated it is “the ability to think and drive abstract thought”.Compare that to the definition of knowledge and wisdom.
As you can clearly see they are not synonyms.
The issue to can be made clearer in a few simple understandings.
The actual meaning of “spirit” in the OT and NT is virtually the same. It means wind or breath. Ruarch in the OT and Pneuma in the NT. In fact the word pneumatic comes from the Greek word. Pneumatic as in moving air.
If one had an open mind and read these definitions into the text, the personification of the Holy spirit looses all it’s power.
From a Hebrew perspective breath or wind depicts the moving of the trade winds that guided the nomadic peoples of the East. The Hebrew minds relates everything to their physical environment. They would see the moving of God’s breath upon them in the same way they saw the guidance of the tradewinds.
Breath also carries with it the concept of the character of the breather. When the breath of God blows on us we are given the wonderful opportunity to view the character of God in our circumstances. This is how God teaches us of his wisdom and character. We then are presented the choice between God’s character or our own knowledge of Good and Evil.
The Holy spirit (as it is called in the English bibles) is really a blowing of God’s breath/character/wisdom in our lives. It is God only in the sense that it carries the revealing of God’s character. It is not a separate person of God.
The word “holy” in Hebrew means simply “set aside for a special purpose.” God’s breath set aside to guide and direct us toward the goal of becoming like him.
I too use the improper term Holy spirit instead of the proper definition of breath, but in my mind I do not allow that term to persuade me of some personification.Quote (martian @ Nov. 18 2009,01:00) The issue to can be made clearer in a few simple understandings.
The actual meaning of “spirit” in the OT and NT is virtually the same. It means wind or breath. Ruarch in the OT and Pneuma in the NT. In fact the word pneumatic comes from the Greek word. Pneumatic as in moving air.
If one had an open mind and read these definitions into the text, the personification of the Holy spirit looses all it’s power.
From a Hebrew perspective breath or wind depicts the moving of the trade winds that guided the nomadic peoples of the East. The Hebrew minds relates everything to their physical environment. They would see the moving of God’s breath upon them in the same way they saw the guidance of the tradewinds.
Breath also carries with it the concept of the character of the breather. When the breath of God blows on us we are given the wonderful opportunity to view the character of God in our circumstances. This is how God teaches us of his wisdom and character. We then are presented the choice between God’s character or our own knowledge of Good and Evil.
The Holy spirit (as it is called in the English bibles) is really a blowing of God’s breath/character/wisdom in our lives. It is God only in the sense that it carries the revealing of God’s character. It is not a separate person of God.
The word “holy” in Hebrew means simply “set aside for a special purpose.” God’s breath set aside to guide and direct us toward the goal of becoming like him.
I too use the improper term Holy spirit instead of the proper definition of breath, but in my mind I do not allow that term to persuade me of some personification.
So Spirit of God = Breath of God.Interesting!
It also sounds reasonable.
Quote (martian @ Nov. 18 2009,06:00) The issue to can be made clearer in a few simple understandings.
The actual meaning of “spirit” in the OT and NT is virtually the same. It means wind or breath. Ruarch in the OT and Pneuma in the NT. In fact the word pneumatic comes from the Greek word. Pneumatic as in moving air.
If one had an open mind and read these definitions into the text, the personification of the Holy spirit looses all it’s power.
From a Hebrew perspective breath or wind depicts the moving of the trade winds that guided the nomadic peoples of the East. The Hebrew minds relates everything to their physical environment. They would see the moving of God’s breath upon them in the same way they saw the guidance of the tradewinds.
Breath also carries with it the concept of the character of the breather. When the breath of God blows on us we are given the wonderful opportunity to view the character of God in our circumstances. This is how God teaches us of his wisdom and character. We then are presented the choice between God’s character or our own knowledge of Good and Evil.
The Holy spirit (as it is called in the English bibles) is really a blowing of God’s breath/character/wisdom in our lives. It is God only in the sense that it carries the revealing of God’s character. It is not a separate person of God.
The word “holy” in Hebrew means simply “set aside for a special purpose.” God’s breath set aside to guide and direct us toward the goal of becoming like him.
I too use the improper term Holy spirit instead of the proper definition of breath, but in my mind I do not allow that term to persuade me of some personification.
very well explained. one must try to use the correct identification that fits all scriptual references of the holy spirit. it is scriptually described to as “filling people” can be baptised in it can be anointed with it – doesn't sound like a person to me so that doesn't fit into the man maid trinity doctrine at all its been refered to as a helper, would teach,bear witness,speak and hear. plus its not unusual for in the scriptures to be personified for instance wisdom is said to have children. sin and death are spoken as being kings. some texts say that the spirit spoke but then was made clear that it was done through angels or humans – nothig so far has described the spirit as a person. it is a powerful force that comes forth from god to do gods holy will.there is so much scriptual basis that totally goes against the trinity. easy to read scriptures that speak for itself. unlike the trinity believers who have to twist and add and add in there own opinions or other man made false teachings. thus being said that most all religions teach trinity which speaks volumes of how popular religions are polluting gods word and thus teaching there own words not his. in turn would be hard to want to go to those churches since its tainted the truth gods word tht jesus had taught. makes you wonder don't it.
Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 18 2009,14:47) Quote (martian @ Nov. 18 2009,06:00) The issue to can be made clearer in a few simple understandings.
The actual meaning of “spirit” in the OT and NT is virtually the same. It means wind or breath. Ruarch in the OT and Pneuma in the NT. In fact the word pneumatic comes from the Greek word. Pneumatic as in moving air.
If one had an open mind and read these definitions into the text, the personification of the Holy spirit looses all it’s power.
From a Hebrew perspective breath or wind depicts the moving of the trade winds that guided the nomadic peoples of the East. The Hebrew minds relates everything to their physical environment. They would see the moving of God’s breath upon them in the same way they saw the guidance of the tradewinds.
Breath also carries with it the concept of the character of the breather. When the breath of God blows on us we are given the wonderful opportunity to view the character of God in our circumstances. This is how God teaches us of his wisdom and character. We then are presented the choice between God’s character or our own knowledge of Good and Evil.
The Holy spirit (as it is called in the English bibles) is really a blowing of God’s breath/character/wisdom in our lives. It is God only in the sense that it carries the revealing of God’s character. It is not a separate person of God.
The word “holy” in Hebrew means simply “set aside for a special purpose.” God’s breath set aside to guide and direct us toward the goal of becoming like him.
I too use the improper term Holy spirit instead of the proper definition of breath, but in my mind I do not allow that term to persuade me of some personification.
very well explained. one must try to use the correct identification that fits all scriptual references of the holy spirit. it is scriptually described to as “filling people” can be baptised in it can be anointed with it – doesn't sound like a person to me so that doesn't fit into the man maid trinity doctrine at all its been refered to as a helper, would teach,bear witness,speak and hear. plus its not unusual for in the scriptures to be personified for instance wisdom is said to have children. sin and death are spoken as being kings. some texts say that the spirit spoke but then was made clear that it was done through angels or humans – nothig so far has described the spirit as a person. it is a powerful force that comes forth from god to do gods holy will.
This is one of those cases where understanding the culture of the ancient Hebrews plays a great deal in the definition of words and concepts.
Another aspect of the “Holy spirit” concept is the understanding that the Hebrews described nouns by virtue of it's function rather then by appearance. Look at all the names of God in scripture. especially in the OT.
God our healer, God our strength, God our high tower, all descriptions of functions of God. How else would you describe an invisible spirit/wind except by it's effect or function toward us. In fact there is no word for “is” in Hebrew. The closest you could get is “functions as” or ” relates to me as”.Quote (martian @ Nov. 18 2009,06:00) The issue to can be made clearer in a few simple understandings.
The actual meaning of “spirit” in the OT and NT is virtually the same. It means wind or breath. Ruarch in the OT and Pneuma in the NT. In fact the word pneumatic comes from the Greek word. Pneumatic as in moving air.
If one had an open mind and read these definitions into the text, the personification of the Holy spirit looses all it’s power.
From a Hebrew perspective breath or wind depicts the moving of the trade winds that guided the nomadic peoples of the East. The Hebrew minds relates everything to their physical environment. They would see the moving of God’s breath upon them in the same way they saw the guidance of the tradewinds.
Breath also carries with it the concept of the character of the breather. When the breath of God blows on us we are given the wonderful opportunity to view the character of God in our circumstances. This is how God teaches us of his wisdom and character. We then are presented the choice between God’s character or our own knowledge of Good and Evil.
The Holy spirit (as it is called in the English bibles) is really a blowing of God’s breath/character/wisdom in our lives. It is God only in the sense that it carries the revealing of God’s character. It is not a separate person of God.
The word “holy” in Hebrew means simply “set aside for a special purpose.” God’s breath set aside to guide and direct us toward the goal of becoming like him.
I too use the improper term Holy spirit instead of the proper definition of breath, but in my mind I do not allow that term to persuade me of some personification.
martian: Excellent post. There is nothing like beautiful, flowing truth in love. Give us more as you can, thank you. Bless you, TKThe word most often translated in Hebrew as “spirit” is “ruahh”. The term “ruahh” literally means breath or wind. The Hebrew culture saw the breath as the life of a person. Relating it to their natural realm, without breath there was no life.
From the very beginning it is obvious that God’s breath was the animating force that gave Adam life. Gen 2:7This is continued in the rest of humanity as is made clear in Job —
Job 27
3For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils,
4My lips certainly will not speak unjustly,
Nor will my tongue mutter deceit.
Job 33
4″The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.The same word for breath or wind is translated in other curious ways. —
Deut 33
13Of Joseph he said, ”Blessed of the LORD be his land, With the choice things of heaven, with the dew, And from the deep lying beneath,
14And with the choice yield of the sun, And with the choice produce of the months. (ruahh)Job 31
32″The alien has not lodged outside,
For I have opened my doors to the traveler. (ruahh)Exo 11
5and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the millstones;(ruahh) all the firstborn of the cattle as well.What does wind/breath, months, traveler, and millstone have in common? To understand that one must understand that the Hebrews did not view their world from an abstract intellectualized construct. A simple nomadic people they saw things in a very organic manner. They saw their world from a functional viewpoint. They related everything including the workings of God to the real and natural world and their culture. They viewed their world and God’s dealings with them through their five senses.
All of these things follow a prescribed path. The months from one to another. The traveler to his destination and the millstone on it’s continual circular path. In the same way the natural trade winds common in the Far East followed a prescribed path. These winds were a guide to these nomadic people. Though the wind itself cannot be seen, the effects of the wind can, in the moving of the leaves and the pressure of the moving air against their bodies.
God has a prescribed path for us to follow. It is straight and does not vary. The Hebrew word for straight is tsadirq and is often translated righteous.Psalms 1
6For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the wicked will perish.Psalms 27
11Teach me Your way, O LORD,
And lead me in a level pathWhen God gives us a new breath, His breath, He will cause us to follow His path.
Eze 36
26″Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit (breath) within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27″I will put My Spirit (breath) within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.It is also interesting to note that the word “holy” literally means set aside for a special purpose. When we see the terms “Holy Spirit” it literally means — the breath of God that is set aside as the source of life and to guide and direct you along the path of righteousness.
This understanding of the Holy Spirit easily translates into the New Testament. In fact the Greek word “pneuma” means exactly the same as “ruahh” in the Hebrew = Wind or breath.God promises His special wind/breath will direct the Apostles along their prescribed path.
Acts 1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”God also directed Jesus along his prescribed path.
Ats 10:38 ”You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit (his special wind breath) and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.Paul relied on the breath/wind of God in him to do what was prescribed on his path.
Romans 15:19 in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit(breath of God); so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.We are commanded to have that same breath in us to guide us on our path.
Ephesians 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit (wind/breath) in the inner man,Jesus had this breath upon Him
Matthew 3:16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit (wind breath) of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,Jesus was full of the breath of God and led by it.
Luke 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, (special breath) returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit (wind/breath) in the wildernessWe too are to be filled with the breath of God. If fact we are to be filled to the same degree as Jesus.
Eph 3
16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be FILLED UP TO ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD.What is the end of the prescribed path for us? That we become mature men, even as Christ our example.
Ephesians 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
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