- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Gene,
I have been taking a closer look at all the times the bible says “spirit of.” While I dont agree that all instances are intellect, it is none the less an interesting study. In Isaiah the Spirit of the LORD seems to stand on equal ground with wisdom and others. I would have though the SOL the “higher” but Isaiah seems to show all seven equal.
I will have to spend some time meditating on this and seeking God for some answers as there is certainly an interesting idea put forth there. I shall get back to this when I feel God has given me some thoughts on the matter.
Be blessed
JeffQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,12:11) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,20:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,16:54) Hi 94,
Can you sort out Rom 8 which speaks in several ways of the SPIRIT.
Where is the Spirit of the Son said to be the Word?
Hi Nick:I believe that the following scripture in Romans 8 shows that the difference:
Quote Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The Spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead is obviously the Holy Spirit, but he raised up Christ from the dead.
But from Matthew 16 the Father reveals to humanity that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.
John 2
Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Quote 1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Love in Christ,
Marty
MartySo then you have 2 Spirits, and not “One Spirit”?
WJ
Hi WJ:My spirit is the spirit of the Son inasmuch as I am obeying the commandments of my Lord.
But my Father dwells within me by His Spirit as my helper to lead me into all truths in the Word of God, and the Word of God also says that he will show me things to come.
Maybe the following scipture will help you to understand what I am saying:
Quote Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Love in Christ,
MartyG ,
Is God seven spirits
or are those spirits just seven attributes now that are not in God but in front of His Throne??Marty said:
Quote My spirit is the spirit of the Son inasmuch as I am obeying the commandments of my Lord. Marty,
Your “mind” is the mind of the Son in as much as you are humble before God and men. Yet your mind is your own mind.
Paul said that the Spirit of God (and of Christ) bears witness wit our spirits that we are children of God. So the Spirit is to be distinguished from our spirits.thinker
Nick……….There are seven distinct attributes or Spirits (intellects) of ONE GOD. And they reside with POWER (Horns) there ON. In Christ Jesus as shown. I tried to explain it before like this, a GUN (GOD) and it has seven bullets (spirits) each with power, But it is still ONE GUN (GOD). These are the US spoken of at creation, it was (NOT) Jesus, He was not there brother. He came into existence when he was born by Mary, he only existed in the plan and purpose of GOD Brother. Peter said it right. He was (FOREORDAINED) from the foundation of the world (BUT) was (MANIFESTED) in our time. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Nick………………….gene
Thinker …………Spirit is Spirit (intellect) some intellects are Higher then others, but none the less they are still Intellect So it is with Spirit.
The Spirit of GOD is a much higher INTELLECT then the Spirit(intellect) from the WORLD. Spirit is (NOT a Person) it is what is (IN) a person. His mind. Let this (MIND) be in you that was in Jesus our LORD, that mind was the mind of GOD IN Him through SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of GOD.peace and love…………………..gene
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,21:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 10 2009,12:11) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,20:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,16:54) Hi 94,
Can you sort out Rom 8 which speaks in several ways of the SPIRIT.
Where is the Spirit of the Son said to be the Word?
Hi Nick:I believe that the following scripture in Romans 8 shows that the difference:
Quote Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The Spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead is obviously the Holy Spirit, but he raised up Christ from the dead.
But from Matthew 16 the Father reveals to humanity that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.
John 2
Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Quote 1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Love in Christ,
Marty
MartySo then you have 2 Spirits, and not “One Spirit”?
WJ
Hi WJ:My spirit is the spirit of the Son inasmuch as I am obeying the commandments of my Lord.
But my Father dwells within me by His Spirit as my helper to lead me into all truths in the Word of God, and the Word of God also says that he will show me things to come.
Maybe the following scipture will help you to understand what I am saying:
Quote Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
Then what about these scriptures?
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of “the Spirit of Jesus Christ“, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also “Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death“. Phil 1:19, 20
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that 'Jesus Christ is in you“, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2009,14:52) Hi WJ,
Still confused?
The Lord is the Spirit.
NHYes he is, and the Spirit who is God lives in his Temple!
WJ
Nick……….Spirit proceeds from all of us when we talk or write, I think what you were talking about was (HOLY SPIRIT) proceeds from GOD. That i agree. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 11 2009,06:52) Hi WJ,
Still confused?
The Lord is the Spirit.
wait a minute, Jesus is not the Spirit. It says Spirit OF Christ. Even if you're a trinitarian, based on that triangular diagram, God the Father is not the Son is not the Spirit.daretoshred……….Nick knows the Spirit in Jesus is the Spirit (OF) or from GOD , Jesus has the fullness of GOD the FATHERS SPIRIT (IN) Him as He said the FATHER is (IN) me. There is (NO) trinity, There is GOD who is Spirit indwelling His creation, That GOD may be (ALL) and IN (ALL). Not just two or three essences as the deluded trinitarians would like you to believe. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
For someone who makes an unbiased reading of the Scriptures (which shouldn't be that hard if Sola Scriptura is supposed to work), references to the Holy Spirit's Personhood leap off the page. For example, Paul speaks of it being possible to grieve the Holy Spirit: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30). Of course, it is not possible to offend or displease impersonal forces.
Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit as knowing the thoughts of God-indicating that the Spirit has an intellect: “For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God” (1 Cor. 2:11).
He also speaks of the Holy Spirit exercising the faculty of will, as in the distribution of spiritual gifts: “All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills” (1 Cor. 12:11).
Scripture also teaches that the Holy Spirit serves as a Paraclete (Greek parakletos) on our behalf. This term, often translated as “Comforter,” “Counselor,” “Advocate,” or “Helper,” refers to a person who is called or summoned to aid one, especially in legal settings, where he serves as an advisor, or advocate for the accused.
Jesus repeatedly speaks of the Holy Spirit as a Paraclete whom he will send to help us: “The Advocate [parakletos], the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name-he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you” (John 14:26; cf. 15:26, 16:7-8).
A facet of the Greek text not obvious in translation is that in the three verses just mentioned (and others), Jesus applies the masculine pronoun ekeinos to the Holy Spirit. The personal character of a paraclete is further illustrated by the fact that Jesus also serves as our Paraclete before the Father: “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an Advocate [parakletos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1)
There are also many passages in Scripture that refer to the Holy Spirit communicating with us-again, something an impersonal force cannot do. For example, when testifying before the Sanhedrin, the apostles refer to the Holy Spirit as their co-witness: “And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him” (Acts 5:32). Later in Acts, Paul states that the Holy Spirit testifies: “The Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me” (Acts 20:23).
This testimony sometimes came from the mouths of New Testament prophets who attributed the words directly to the Holy Spirit: “And coming to us he took Paul's girdle and bound his own feet and hands, and said, 'Thus says the Holy Spirit, “So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this girdle and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles”'” (Acts 21:11; cf. 1 Tim. 4:1). Note the formula “Thus says the Holy Spirit” is modeled on the frequent prophetic formula “Thus says the Lord”-indicating not only the Spirit's Personhood but also directly equating him with Yahweh.
Sometimes even the biblical books' narrative directly quotes the Holy Spirit. In Revelation we read, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying, 'Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth.' 'Blessed indeed,' says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!'” (Rev. 14:13).
If it were objected that this quotation is found in a book of prophecy, which often uses figurative language, the topper is Acts 13:2:”While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'”
The doctrinal force of this passage is unavoidable. Here we have a direct quotation of the Holy Spirit-not in a prophetic book, not in the mouth of a prophet, not in a parable, not told by a character in a historical book. We have the Holy Spirit directly quoted by the narrative of a historical book-just like the other real persons who speak in the book. And the same thing happens in Acts 8:29 and 10:19.
Even if one tried to explain away all of Scripture's other personal references to the Holy Spirit as somehow being symbols or figures of speech, the direct quotation of an individual in the narrative of a historical book unmistakably shows that the individual in question is a real, literal person, not just a force or symbol.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) For someone who makes an unbiased reading of the Scriptures (which shouldn't be that hard if Sola Scriptura is supposed to work), references to the Holy Spirit's Personhood leap off the page. For example, Paul speaks of it being possible to grieve the Holy Spirit: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30). Of course, it is not possible to offend or displease impersonal forces. Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit as knowing the thoughts of God-indicating that the Spirit has an intellect: “For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God” (1 Cor. 2:11).
He also speaks of the Holy Spirit exercising the faculty of will, as in the distribution of spiritual gifts: “All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills” (1 Cor. 12:11).
Scripture also teaches that the Holy Spirit serves as a Paraclete (Greek parakletos) on our behalf. This term, often translated as “Comforter,” “Counselor,” “Advocate,” or “Helper,” refers to a person who is called or summoned to aid one, especially in legal settings, where he serves as an advisor, or advocate for the accused.
Jesus repeatedly speaks of the Holy Spirit as a Paraclete whom he will send to help us: “The Advocate [parakletos], the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name-he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you” (John 14:26; cf. 15:26, 16:7-8).
A facet of the Greek text not obvious in translation is that in the three verses just mentioned (and others), Jesus applies the masculine pronoun ekeinos to the Holy Spirit. The personal character of a paraclete is further illustrated by the fact that Jesus also serves as our Paraclete before the Father: “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an Advocate [parakletos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1)
There are also many passages in Scripture that refer to the Holy Spirit communicating with us-again, something an impersonal force cannot do. For example, when testifying before the Sanhedrin, the apostles refer to the Holy Spirit as their co-witness: “And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him” (Acts 5:32). Later in Acts, Paul states that the Holy Spirit testifies: “The Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me” (Acts 20:23).
This testimony sometimes came from the mouths of New Testament prophets who attributed the words directly to the Holy Spirit: “And coming to us he took Paul's girdle and bound his own feet and hands, and said, 'Thus says the Holy Spirit, “So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this girdle and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles”'” (Acts 21:11; cf. 1 Tim. 4:1). Note the formula “Thus says the Holy Spirit” is modeled on the frequent prophetic formula “Thus says the Lord”-indicating not only the Spirit's Personhood but also directly equating him with Yahweh.
Sometimes even the biblical books' narrative directly quotes the Holy Spirit. In Revelation we read, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying, 'Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth.' 'Blessed indeed,' says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!'” (Rev. 14:13).
If it were objected that this quotation is found in a book of prophecy, which often uses figurative language, the topper is Acts 13:2:”While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'”
The doctrinal force of this passage is unavoidable. Here we have a direct quotation of the Holy Spirit-not in a prophetic book, not in the mouth of a prophet, not in a parable, not told by a character in a historical book. We have the Holy Spirit directly quoted by the narrative of a historical book-just like the other real persons who speak in the book. And the same thing happens in Acts 8:29 and 10:19.
Even if one tried to explain away all of Scripture's other personal references to the Holy Spirit as somehow being symbols or figures of speech, the direct quotation of an individual in the narrative of a historical book unmistakably shows that the individual in question is a real, literal person, not just a force or symbol.
Excellent post CA! You have dealt a mighty death blow to Arian Theology.Which verse specifically did Christ use the masculine pronoun “ekeinos” for the Holy Spirit?
thinker
CA said:
Quote If it were objected that this quotation is found in a book of prophecy, which often uses figurative language, the topper is Acts 13:2:”While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'” The doctrinal force of this passage is unavoidable. Here we have a direct quotation of the Holy Spirit-not in a prophetic book, not in the mouth of a prophet, not in a parable, not told by a character in a historical book. We have the Holy Spirit directly quoted by the narrative of a historical book-just like the other real persons who speak in the book. And the same thing happens in Acts 8:29 and 10:19.
Even if one tried to explain away all of Scripture's other personal references to the Holy Spirit as somehow being symbols or figures of speech, the direct quotation of an individual in the narrative of a historical book unmistakably shows that the individual in question is a real, literal person, not just a force or symbol.
Anti-trinitarianism goes down for the full count!
thinker
“The Advocate [parakletos], the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name-he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you” (John 14:26; cf. 15:26, 16:7-8)
Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
o de paraklhtoV to pneuma to agion o pemyei o pathr en tw onomati mou ekeinoV umaV didaxei panta kai upomnhsei umaV panta a eipon uminScrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
o de paraklhtoV to pneuma to agion o pemyei o pathr en tw onomati mou ekeinoV umaV didaxei panta kai upomnhsei umaV panta a eipon uminByzantine Majority
o de paraklhtoV to pneuma to agion o pemyei o pathr en tw onomati mou ekeinoV umaV didaxei panta kai upomnhsei umaV panta a eipon uminAlexandrian
o de paraklhtoV to pneuma to agion o pemyei o pathr en tw onomati mou ekeinoV umaV didaxei panta kai upomnhsei umaV panta a eipon umin [egw]Hort and Westcott
o de paraklhtoV to pneuma to agion o pemyei o pathr en tw onomati mou ekeinoV umaV didaxei panta kai upomnhsei umaV panta a eipon umin egw
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
