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Nick……….Jesus the lamb does not have seven angles in his head , He has the seven SPIRITS of GOD, as scripture say he does.
gene
Nick………No i deduce that from scriptures plainly spoken of. And are you saying GOD words are illogical. If we can used our minds God gave us then we are void of any spirit . Again you lack the understanding of what a SPIRIT IS, even though Jesus explained it to us. IMO
peace and love…………………..gene
Gene,
how do you define spirits? Simply Intellects?
The spirit of god hovered/moved over the waters. Intellect doesnt hover. And if you are calling Spirits intellects what did jesus cast out of people when they SPOKE to him? And what was going on with the war in heaven? Was someone just having a psychotic episode up in heaven? Those were spirits fighting and getting thrown out.
I think we need to better define the word Spirit. God is called spirit, so are angels. There is now way that god and his creation are remotely the same.
It does speak of the 7 spirits in Isaiah but I think its more meant to express perfection and fullness. But I cannot be 100% certain just yet.
Jeff
WL……… WL…….Yes INTELLECT but far from simple Spirit can be coupled with POWER as in the case
GOD the FATHER and Jesus now He has these seven Spirits of GOD couple with seven HORNS (POWER) REV 5:6.Show were Spirits were fighting anywhere in scripture. Show where a SPIRIT IS a Being. Spirit is what is (IN) the being Not the being it self. When GOD (who is Spirit) in in a person that is (NOT) a being in another being , He is a spirit, Why do you think no one has ever seen GOD , it is because you can't see SPIRIT. Because Spirit is the Life force (in) a being and the life force in all the earth is of GOD. All spirit is created by GOD and without GOD there would be (NO) SPIRIT at all. When a man dies His Spirit he recieved from GOD goes back to Him who gave as scripture says. The being died but His Spirit (intellect) returned to where it was before,.Jesus said when an unclean Spirit (intellect) leaves a man it goes about in (ARID) places seeking rest , why is that?, it is because out side of a body, it is useless it has nothing to animate why because it is (INTELLECT) But once that intellect inters a body It begins to animate it, but outside of a body it is useless, as all thought is useless unless it is in a body. Because Spirit is intellect not a person or a being of any Kind. Even God's Spirit in a person animates the person and produces fruits of it in there lives., like wise the spirit (intellect) we recieve from the world produces fruit also. That is why we are to try the SPIRITS (intellects ) of a person because they will animate the persons speech and they will act out that intellect in them. “You Shall know them by their fruits”, not some spook being going around jumping in and out of them. Spirit is (NOT) a being it is what is in a being. it is His or Her intellect. The only Spirit Being in Scripture it GOD HIMSELF who is SPIRIT. Notice how he describes Himself (I AM THAT I AM) or HE Exists that He Exists, whey is he described that WAY , it is because that is the (ONLY) true way GOD can BE DESCRIBED, because no one can see GOD. According to Jesus and John. He is pure SPIRIT. AS Jesus said GOD is SPIRIT. All things come into existence from GOD and SPIRITS come from HIM and return to HIM, and they animate what ever they are sent to, this is How GOD is in all His creation, He is the life of all creation and its sustainer He and He alone . IMO
peace and love………………gene
Gene,
I am thinking that God is a spirit much the same way that God is God. Its as Nick put sit I think. Elohim is a brood titke that the angels etc share with God. So we have gods and the GOD. Spirit seems similar. God is spirit but so are angels. They cannot be equal to GOD.
Now we COULD be talking about the Holy Spirit since if I prove correct its ultimately the spiritual image of the invisible god. God is invisible because we exist IN him. Cant see what you are in. So GOD exists as god (divinity) the Holy Spirit and then in flesh as we are all gods (partakers of the divine nature).
To get back to my main question that hasnt been addressed yet….
Gen 1 says that GOD and the SPIRIT OF GOD were present in the beginning.
John 1 says that GOD and the WORD were present.
1 John 1 says that the Father and the WORD OF LIFE were present.
Proverbs 8 says that the LORD and WISDOM were there.
These are all parallels accounts showing that GOD is the FATHER and LORD present and that the SPIRIT is the WORD and WISDOM present.
The only conclusion from these is that the SPIRIT OF GOD is the pre incarnate SON OF GOD since it says in other passages that the son was there and all was created through him. The only other him besides the father God there is the spirit/word/wisdom.
Is there a flaw in this thinking? And if so what might it be since these passages seem to state this clearly? How do we jump to the WORD being anything other then the SPIRIT since that was all that was there in the beginning with GOD? It would make sense to since blasphemng the spirit is a major nono!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Logic and inference do not constitute any form of truth.
The Spirit of God is not a son of God.The Son of God was joined to God being filled with His Spirit.
Nick, the flesh son of god yes, but the spiritual son of god was the spirit according to those scriptures. (In fact there are many spiritual sons of god as te bible calls the angels that as well.)
God is not the author of confusion which means his word should be logical and it is. If we cannot take the bible for what is plainly said then we might as well just be trinitarians. Why are we against that? Because we read the scrips and see that it doesnt say that. This is no different. And the Word bears witness in many places. It fits the necessity of 3 witnesses.
I wish beyond just calling it “logical”, you might answer what these scrips are saying. That would add to the discussion.
God Bless
JeffJeff…………I do agree that the Spirit of GOD does produce Sons of GOD. I have no problem with that, But the scripture that say (BY) can be rendered , for, or through. Christ Jesus or the messiah did not exist at the time of the creation at all, only in the plan of GOD He existed and it was for this very purpose GOD created the whole creation That ultimately we all would be conformed into the image of GOD as Jesus has already been. This is the created purpose GOD was working through Jesus. The preexistence concept of Jesus as a being before his berth on earth is another false teaching of the TRINITY teachers. You seem to be trying to separate the SPIRIT of GOD from GOD. But remember Jesus said GOD (WAS) SPIRIT. Its like you, you could not be separated from your Spirit in you either, or you simply would no longer exist. John 1:1 ……says..> in the beginning was the WORD (expressed intellect) and the Word (expressed intellect) was with GOD and the WORD (expressed intellect) (WAS) GOD. You see the word and GOD who (IS) Spirit are one and the same thing. John1:1 is not even talking about Jesus or John would have simply said Jesus, it is talking about the FATHER HIMSELF and no other. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Jeff……………I commend you on seeking GOD word through LOGIC and understanding. GOD is logical and understandably in His word. The spirit we have recieved is very logical . “For we have not recieved the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of Fear, but of love and power and of a (SOUND) MIND”. GOD spirit above all thing (IS) logical, in fact it gives logic to GOD'S words. Brother Nick , just has a slight problem with it thats all, he thinks all logic is of the world.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Nick……….No Scripture says there (ARE) SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD. That go out into all the earth. There are seven distinct Spirits of one GOD. What do you thin it means when it say (TRY) the (SPIRITS) to see if they are from GOD. When you try SPIRITS what are you doing , are you not trying what a man Says These proceed forth from the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) IN HIM> Why complicate something so simple to understand NICK? IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Gene,
–>I do agree that the Spirit of GOD does produce Sons of GOD. I have no problem with that,
Agreed God, through the HS created a whole host of Angels which are called “sons of god.”
–>Christ Jesus or the messiah did not exist at the time of the creation at all, only in the plan of GOD He existed
I must disagree here. He didnt exist in flesh obviously, but proverbs 8 and gen 1 both show that there was something there with god at the start of creation. John 1 does as well. We cant simply call this intellect because it has character.
Proverbs 8
22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old . 23 “From everlasting I was established , From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth , When there were no springs abounding with water. 25 “Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth ;Are we to assume that prior God had no intellect? He clearly BROUGHT FORTH something. And in Gen 1 the only things we see are GOD and SPIRIT. And the SPIRIT is HOVERING over waters. Intellect doesnt do that. It seems clear to me that God brought forth (whateverthat means exactly) the Spirit Of God.
–>The preexistence concept of Jesus as a being before his berth on earth is another false teaching of the TRINITY teachers.
I am saying the HS was brought forth, not preexisting.
–>You seem to be trying to separate the SPIRIT of GOD from GOD.
Not at all. In reality all is intricately tied to God. I cannot explain exactly the connection but the bible says he was brought forth. It says he hovers and speaks. he has a mouth. We could say he is gods intellect in a spiriually created (brought forth) body and I would likely not argue that. (the question then would be, did that spiritual body have a mind as well like the flesh jesus did. is that spiritual body Michael or the ANgel of the LORD etc.)
–>But remember Jesus said GOD (WAS) SPIRIT.
The word SPIRIT needs clarification as I said before because there are MANY uses of this. Angels are called spirits. God is called a spirit. The mind is called a spirit. And others. God is not his creation so we must clarify the use of spirt much like we clarify the use of the word God.
–>John 1:1 ……says..> in the beginning was the WORD (expressed intellect) and the Word (expressed intellect) was with GOD and the WORD (expressed intellect) (WAS) GOD.
This passage goes right back to gen 1 and there we do see 2 things – GOD and SPIRIT. I would assume we can agree that the SPIRIT and the WORD ar ethe same? We may disagree after that but I think we can agree with that. Its how we define spirit that seems the difference. So we need a clear biblical definition. Care to put one forth?
God Bless
JeffJeff……….Wisdom is (ONE) of the attributes of the ONE GOD , He has seven distinct SPIRITS or ATTRIBUTES OR INTELLECTS, Wisdom is just one of them, wisdom is (NOT) a person it is SPIRIT. When GOD said “let (US) create man”, the US was the SEVEN SPIRITS (INTELLECTS ) or ATTRIBUTES of the ONE GOD which now are before His very throne itself. It was the seven SPIRITS the compose (ONE) GOD that hovered over the waters no other begin was with the ONE GOD, How do i KNOW that, GOD said in ISAIAH, that He (ALONE) and BY (HIMSELF) created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. Jesus did not exist until his berth by Mary, He is a son of Man who became a SON of GOD after His death and resurrection. REad what Peter said, “Jesus was (FORORDAINED) (BUT) WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME, THAT EXPLAINS IT THE BEST, Jesus was in the plan of GOD in the beginning, but did not come into existence until his berth and it was through the loins of king DAVID as scripture says. We must come to see Jesus as exactly as one of US, or we simply don't see him, It was not a GOD made A GOD, It was a man made into the SON of GOD, the same way we must also, no difference. Wisdom is simply ONE of GODS SPIRITS or INTELLECTS, Jesus now has all SEVEN of them in HIM as seen in the book of revelations. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
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