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Nick, can u move this into the larger HOLY SPIRIT list so as to not be duplicating. I posted in there since you brought up that post that was already there by posting in it.
Gene, I most definitely understand gen 2:7 and what a soul is and would agree with some of what I think you are saying. But not all. I will post a responce in the other post once nick moves them.
God Bless
JeffNick………..Look up the meaning of Spirit and it is Given symbolic as Breath or wind, It is the life force of all living things. It may have not been a physical breath but none the less it was spirit, as scripture says when a man dies the spirit returns to him who (gave) (IT). The breath of LIFE (IS) SPIRIT remove it and you die. You say the FRUIT has never been of GOD'S Spirit yet we are told that the FRUIT of the SPIRIT of GOD is LOVE and PEACE and JOY and all kinds of good things. BUT you seem to deny that Why is that Nick?, is it because you fail to understand what SPIRIT (IS)> An what makes you think that some of the odd Views aren't yours NICK. IMO
peace and love…………………………gene
Hi WI,
The Spirit is the Spirit of God.Many times God speaks of HIS Spirit [Jl2].
God is no more separate from His Spirit than we can be with ours.[Jas2]
Rebirth is of water and that Spirit so that just like Jesus we can become Sons of God.
Then is made manifest the unity of the body of Christ in Christ and in God
Nick,
I agree that we, like jesus, are born from above and become “sons of God.” But I think that its the original spirit of God which is THE son of god that brings us into that sonship.
Proverbs makes it clear that something was brought forth and that something created. Gen 1 makes it clear that the something creating with God at the start was the HS.
jeff
Hi Jeff,
Does it fit with Acts 10.38?
He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.Jesus is unlikely to be in Prov 8 which speaks of wisdom.
Jesus is the Wisdom of God but is more than just wisdom
WI………..Jesus said you must be born of water (AND) Spirit, we were ONCE BORN OF WATER, another word we came forth through water, our berth on earth , but there is also a Heavenly Berth of SPIRIT also. The mention of Water by Jesus had nothing to do with water baptism. That is just speculation on the part of some. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
One other thing, Proverbs 8 says:
Proverbs 8:19
19″My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver.We know it sthe HS that brings forth the FRUIT of the spirit. So Wisdom in Proverbs is the HS, not Jesus. Its the Spirot of god which is the son of god without flesh as I see it.
Jeff
Nick,
Acts 10:38 seems to support what I am saying. Jesu sthe man was baptised with the HS/spirt of christ/son of god and became one of gods sons in the flesh.
Gene, I think I agree with what you just stated.
Hi Jeff,
So you have no real scriptural support for this idea?The Spirit of God is as the finger of God[Lk11/Mt12]
nick,
I have loads of scrips but would take forever to post them all. Let me just try a few.
Proverbs 8:19
19″My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver.The HS brings forth fruit.
Gen1
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.If the HS was the ONLY one with God at the start doing the creating then it is logical to assume he WAS the SON that proverbs 8 is referring to.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
God is at work in you to will and to do[Phil]The Father's Spirit speaks in us]Mt 10.20] Is this the Holy Spirit?
WI……….Rely on what GOD has given you , (IT) will guide you into (ALL) truth. (IT) will both accuse you when you are wrong and will defend you when you are right. You have no need of a teacher the SPIRIT (ITSELF) will teach you all things. Remember this the SPIRIT of TRUTH has it's own ring to it. You will know it when you hear it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
nick,
yes the HS brings the fruit. So it was the HS in jesus and us that brings that fruit. Hence the HS IS that original SON as spirit. Look at Gen 1 closely. and then read proverbs 8:27.
1In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the SPIRIT OF GOD was moving over the surface of the waters.
Proverbs 8:27
27″When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,If we look at genesis there is only ONE other being at all with him at creation and that is the SPIRIT so that MUST be the SON. Also look at Col 1:
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created through Him and for Him.
If the SON created all and we see the SPIRIT doing the creating in Gen then the SON MUST be the spirit or we have a contradiction here.
Jeff
Gene,
I agree but dont think the Spirit is an IT. I think the spirit is what created all things in the beginning. God created THROUGH his spirit/son.
Now it is possible that the son is an angel that, like the man jesus, had to obediently accept the fathers will and hence became an obedient son and then later take on flesh in te man jesus. But that is all just theory at the moment. I havent hashed it out. If it was I would assume it Michael since he is israels prince, but again I am not sure.
Jeff
Quote (wisslewj @ Sep. 07 2009,09:11) nick, yes the HS brings the fruit. So it was the HS in jesus and us that brings that fruit. Hence the HS IS that original SON as spirit. Look at Gen 1 closely. and then read proverbs 8:27.
1In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the SPIRIT OF GOD was moving over the surface of the waters.
Proverbs 8:27
27″When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,If we look at genesis there is only ONE other being at all with him at creation and that is the SPIRIT so that MUST be the SON. Also look at Col 1:
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created through Him and for Him.
If the SON created all and we see the SPIRIT doing the creating in Gen then the SON MUST be the spirit or we have a contradiction here.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
HENCE is of logic not scriptural truth.
Is God separate from HIS OWN SPIRIT?Tell us of Mt10.20
Mt 10:20″For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
This is what I am saying. The spirit of the father is Christ/his son/the (set apart spirit) HS
Nick, I ask you, if the son created and proverbs says that someone was at the beginning with god and gen 1 shows ONLY the spirit there, then how is it any other?
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
So the Spirit is another Son?
So God no longer has a spirit?Why is the Spirit still called the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER?
Tell us of Jl 2.
When God pours out His Spirit that Spirit becomes a son do you think??So how is God at work in us[phil2]?
How does God live in us[phil3]
How is God close to all men[Acts 17]?
WI………….Nick has a point GOD is not Separate from his SPIRIT, remember Jesus said GOD (IS) SPIRIT. So he can't be separate from it. When Jesus said the FATHER was (IN) HIM he was meaning He GOD was TRULY IN HIM, how by HIS SPIRIT which is HIM. The problem is understanding what SPIRIT it. Here is a good example Jesus said because He can't be seen, except through the eye of the mind. He is PURE SPIRIT. He can indwell He creation and does He was in Jesus (that was the FATHER in HIM) Doing the works. as He said. Notice the only GOD could say who He was , was by (I am that I am) or (He exists that He exists) Why because you cant see Him, no one ever has or ever will He lives in his creation and gives it life. He is our very life and He is SPIRIT (Intellect) that animates our bodies. He lives IN His creation IMO
peace and love to yu and yours………………………….gene
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